Just how many bridges did TPTB burn when they made Stargate Universe?

[Aragon101]

To me, 'storytellers' include the whole lot -- actors, writers, etc.

Start anew..

Actors is more difficult. You can't fake charisma

If the writing is good, then the actors will fall into place. Sure it's perfectly possible to run into bad actors, but the writers should be able to compensate for that.

The writing is really the core of it all since it IS the story, not just a part of it. You can take a simple concept like "Atlantis needs to find all the parts to build an Anti-Wraith Superweapon" and spread it over an entire season with plenty of adventure/action and character focus. The biggest issue with SG so far has been unfocused storytelling. They didnt' know WHERE they wanted to go, they just went and ended up in Mallozzi's ass with SGU.

 

[Aragon101]

I would respectfully disagree with you here. A bad actor is a bad actor, and no amount of superlative script is going to make up for a lack of talent and consequently render a sterling performance. (As an aside, the word 'charisma' and 'SGU' should probably not be in the same sentence.)



They may know where they want to go, but they've taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque. Seriously, their story development is marginal after xx hours of storytelling -- still full of holes, and no focus on the prize. Absolutely agreed.

Yes, it's bad writing, and I wasn't even saying the cast is populated with 'bad actors.' But, of the ones there, I don't think I could get past the taint of SGU if any were cast in an SG reboot -- especially if he/she were reprising their SGU role.

Here's what i think, a bad actor won't ruin a good story, but a great actor can't necessarily save a bad story.

The only actor who i think is utterly undeserving of any acclaim from SGU is BJS. Scott is the most useless and pathetic character in SG history next to maybe Lucius (they're on the same level methinks) and deserves little more than derisive laughter.

The best character on SGU? Easily TJ in Season 1, but we'll see her destroyed in Season 2. Everyone else is somewhere in between with the older actors being higher than the younger ones. I know alot of people didn't like Carlyle here, but i find his dark stuff quite interesting given that he's just got that deviously and slightly evil style about him. He was awesome in Ravenous, as well as Hitler.

The writers need serious work though. It went from episode to episode plot in SG1/A, to full character in SGU. Why the hell is it so hard for them to try and strike a balance?

 

[Xineohpinakc]

Too many. It is time for a reboot.

 

[Overmind One]

Yet another bridge burned - The Loyalty of the Fandom



The vast majority of the Stargate fandom has gathered around the creation of the original movie, then Stargate SG-1 and then Atlantis. I go by the figure of about 4-5 million viewers, and possibly more who share their love with the Star Trek franchise (like me). SGU has not managed to muster much more than about 1.3 million regular viewers, and the original spike of 2.3 at the premiere was from curious Stargate fans who wanted to continue watching Stargate, but then jumped ship when they saw that it had become a soap opera. The show has been steadily decreasing in popularity and viewership, and the reasons for that are many:

1) The Producers and their big fat insulting mouths

Joseph Mallozzi, Brad Wright and some of the actors in Stargate Universe have said things which are disparaging towards Stargate Atlantis and SG-1 fans. They have not posted apologies or retractions, and have become set in their ways with regard to how Universe is supposed to sit within the franchise. They keep claiming that the past Stargate shows are bad, whilst SGU represents an "evolution of the franchise" and is "more mature" than previous shows. HA! A lot of good those comments did to bolster fan loyalty. :roll:

2) Gateworld censorship

Yes, Gateworld was a giant element of Stargate fandom, giving fans a place to discuss "all things Stargate" and with a diverse set of members who were allowed to speak their minds and post opinions which could be debated, discussed and shared. That has all changed, with draconian moderators and silly, immature censorship policies which now evidently include censoring on Gateworld for contributions made ELSEWHERE on the internet, having nothing to do with Gateworld. The owners of Gateworld are complicit in these policies and the end result will be rejection of Gateworld by the majority of the dedicated fandom. When Stargate Universe is gone, Gateworld will be stuck with the aftermath.

3) False advertising, shills and misleading trailers

What do these idiots think they are doing by advertising this show as science fiction/action/adventure when nothing could be further from the truth? The shills go around posting over the top praise for the show, but since they are paid shills, many of them havent seen the show and it is very obvious in their posts. One recent review at IMDb even claimed the show had been canceled! Others refer to Louis Ferreria as Justin Louis in the show when the credits of SGU have never listed his former stage name. The spins coming from Syfy in season 1 were so ridiculously manipulative that they have pretty much stopped printing them. If this site hadnt been established, and we didnt have such a diligent army of members who capture screenshots and reveal the tricks, they might have been more effective...at TRICKS. Why resort to tricks? If a show is good, the fans will come without having to be tricked or baited. Sanctuary started out as a web-based series. Look at it today!

Fan loyalty has to be earned. Fan wrath also has to be earned, and TPTB are learning this in the harshest, most direct way because that is the way they dished it. :icon_e_wink:

 

[CommanderOZ]

TPTB burned down the frakkin bridge when they pushed the whole idea of a "dark and edgier" Stargate. Whilst it's been said the SGA was somewhat there, it still had a fun element similiar to it's older sibling. Once they removed that core theme, it ceased all semblance of a Stargate franchise.

When you establish a certain kind of drive for a show and run it for a total of 15 years, you cannot imo suddenly turn the corner and say "We're taking a new road now, stuff you guys (the fans) we want a different approach now, one you won't even like" well they were right. People don't like it. The numbers are dwindling rapidly and I think the only ones still watching are doing so for two reasons.
1/ because they don't want to or a too stubborn to admit it's crap
2/ because they are simply bored because there's nothing else for them to get their SG fix.

 

[Lilith]

It in the death spiral.

Pink slips for Christmas. They can't possibly admit that they were wrong. After 15 years they still didn't know their audience. They were only looking for accolades that they didn't deserve. I think their reach exceeded their grasp. Earth doesn't want these people back. It needs to go out on a bang with the ship blowing up and all lifes and stones lost.

 

[CommanderOZ]

Pink slips for Christmas. They can't possibly admit that they were wrong. After 15 years they still didn't know their audience. They were only looking for accolades that they didn't deserve. I think their reach exceeded their grasp. Earth doesn't want these people back. It needs to go out on a bang with the ship blowing up and all lifes and stones lost.

Hardened addicts and alcoholics can never admit to anything, to them what they are doing is merely social recreation. What the TPTB think they are doing in their own tiny little minds is continuing Stargate, the argument I saw countless times in the begining of the SGU threads on GW, was that it has a Stargate in it, so yes it's still Stargate. I've read better fanfic than this dribble, even my own messy effort is better than they are serving up. You could take half a dozen writers off FF.net and come up with a much better version.

As an aside, the version they presented in "200" with the young SG1 team, was better than SGpoop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwyIMzfzz8o

or even this was better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zKNZGmISZQ

:sgusucks:

 

[CommanderOZ]

Now here's the rub PP, when you go on GW and even mention 200 within sight of the SGUsuckers, everyone of them say it was the worst moment in their SG life. Christ I thought it was one of the best, like RDA said once, he loved doing SG1 because they didn't take themselves seriously. That's where SGpoop took a wrong turn.

 

[CommanderOZ]

This is me and SGU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRApQUx8BHc

 

[Rac80]

een the spoof was better than sgpoo!

Hardened addicts and alcoholics can never admit to anything, to them what they are doing is merely social recreation. What the TPTB think they are doing in their own tiny little minds is continuing Stargate, the argument I saw countless times in the begining of the SGU threads on GW, was that it has a Stargate in it, so yes it's still Stargate. I've read better fanfic than this dribble, even my own messy effort is better than they are serving up. You could take half a dozen writers off FF.net and come up with a much better version.

As an aside, the version they presented in "200" with the young SG1 team, was better than SGpoop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwyIMzfzz8o

or even this was better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zKNZGmISZQ

:sgusucks:

Ok they even used "the wig" in 200! Oh I loved that spoof!


In the star trek ripoff scene there is a HILARIOUS out-take where Chris Judge does this wiggle/shake

 

[CommanderOZ]

You've all seen this I know, but i can't help but post it again, it is so relevent to our cause

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfcGYyDrl2w

 

[Aragon101]

Ok they even used "the wig" in 200! Oh I loved that spoof!


In the star trek ripoff scene there is a HILARIOUS out-take where Chris Judge does this wiggle/shake

OMG! i keep trying to remind myself to GIF that little dance because i ALWAYS crack up and howl when i see it

Something to do on my next day off

 

[SG-Rocks]

234,000 views. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQDrODViG_I&feature=related

 

[Overmind One]

They just set a new bridge alight last night. The move to Tuesday is the nail in SGU's coffin



Okay, after watching Intervention, Im convinced that this show is in its final season. I want to see the ratings first, but I want it in print that I am pretty sure they were below 1 million before knowing for sure. The episode was excruciatingly slow and vapid. The plot was convoluted and required that you already know something about the ship, the characters and the Lucian Alliance before you could understand anything going on.

But wait!

This premiere was not only to wrap up a cliffhanger which hardly anyone watched to begin with (1.1 for Pt 1 of Incursion, 1.4 for part 2), but also to introduce itself to the Tuesday night drama crowd. The bridge to the Friday night science fiction audience which has created the fanbase for the entire franchise is now gone...in favor of WRESTLING.

Bridge burning...

 

[Rac80]

View attachment 1132

Okay, after watching Intervention, Im convinced that this show is in its final season. I want to see the ratings first, but I want it in print that I am pretty sure they were below 1 million before knowing for sure. The episode was excruciatingly slow and vapid. The plot was convoluted and required that you already know something about the ship, the characters and the Lucian Alliance before you could understand anything going on.

But wait!

This premiere was not only to wrap up a cliffhanger which hardly anyone watched to begin with (1.1 for Pt 1 of Incursion, 1.4 for part 2), but also to introduce itself to the Tuesday night drama crowd. The bridge to the Friday night science fiction audience which has created the fanbase for the entire franchise is now gone...in favor of WRESTLING.

Bridge burning...

you know I thought Sabotage was painful...but Intervention was excruciating! that was the worst tv I have seen since the last time I watched sgpoo! the ONLY saving grace was Mike Dopud! But even he couldn't completely save the show! I couldn't ffwd to just his scenes because of the review I had to write, but even then....only his scenes were interesting at all. The cabin/alien planet part was mind-bendingly dull, the stuff on the destiny was just plain stupid. and the quarry planet...you know that looked like the same quarry seen in sg1's season 7 ep Enemy Mine. I guess all their promises of new and different landscapes is full of crap! and remind me if I am wrong...the criticized sg1 and sga for having humanoid english speaking aliens right? gee what else are the Lucian Alliance? they are just not rubber-faced!

 

[Overmind One]

These posts were prophetic! Tuesday DID kill Universe.

View attachment 1132

Okay, after watching Intervention, Im convinced that this show is in its final season. I want to see the ratings first, but I want it in print that I am pretty sure they were below 1 million before knowing for sure. The episode was excruciatingly slow and vapid. The plot was convoluted and required that you already know something about the ship, the characters and the Lucian Alliance before you could understand anything going on.

But wait!

This premiere was not only to wrap up a cliffhanger which hardly anyone watched to begin with (1.1 for Pt 1 of Incursion, 1.4 for part 2), but also to introduce itself to the Tuesday night drama crowd. The bridge to the Friday night science fiction audience which has created the fanbase for the entire franchise is now gone...in favor of WRESTLING.

Bridge burning...

you know I thought Sabotage was painful...but Intervention was excruciating! that was the worst tv I have seen since the last time I watched sgpoo! the ONLY saving grace was Mike Dopud! But even he couldn't completely save the show! I couldn't ffwd to just his scenes because of the review I had to write, but even then....only his scenes were interesting at all. The cabin/alien planet part was mind-bendingly dull, the stuff on the destiny was just plain stupid. and the quarry planet...you know that looked like the same quarry seen in sg1's season 7 ep Enemy Mine. I guess all their promises of new and different landscapes is full of crap! and remind me if I am wrong...the criticized sg1 and sga for having humanoid english speaking aliens right? gee what else are the Lucian Alliance? they are just not rubber-faced!

I totally agree, buddy. That's a great point. I looked at a few forums last night and not just our own here, and GW had some people over there which was to be expected, but everywhere else - I mean EVERYWHERE ELSE - was dead. Even Brian over at Syfy.com mentioned that it was dead over there.

View attachment 1138

It's like no one cares. Yeah, it's a week night, but that didn't stop anyone from watching W13 when it was on. Over at JM's Tabloid, the usual people were saying that the ep was great to them, but even there I noticed that a certain "energy," for lack of a better word, was gone. We'll see what the ratings say. You never know.

Now, Brad is trying to cross back over a bridge he burned last season? Um, the bridge is borned...so, how can he cross back over it? :bradcry:. Us insignificant and "out of demographic" oddballs arent the problem. Where is the new audience that was supposed to flock to the show when it moved to Tuesday? Why could the fans see that it was a death sentence, but TPTB could not? They have gotten it all wrong from the get go, and we have mostly been right on the money. They should ask US what do do next!

 

[SG-Rocks]

I think they've finally figured out you can't go on forever with the numbers hitting zero-point. Episode 19 should have jarred them out of their narcosis rapture. They ****** us fans over real good people. I'm not taking any of the blame. I'd rather share in the credit.

I see Squall left one over at Mazolla World. And it seems Malozzi's focused now on finding other work.

 

[Overmind One]

Really? LMAO

I think they've finally figured out you can't go on forever with the numbers hitting zero-point. Episode 19 should have jarred them out of their narcosis rapture. They ****** us fans over real good people. I'm not taking any of the blame. I'd rather share in the credit.

I see Squall left one over at Mazolla World. And it seems Malozzi's focused now on finding other work.

Hahahaha. No screenshot or link? I gotta check that out.

 

[SG-Rocks]

At your command:

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com...te-ratings-fandom-and-my-picky-aunt/#comments

View attachment 1830

 

[Copenhagen]

Well, here is my two cents:

It's quite clear that the writters were tired of the same old style of writting. And, I can understand that. I can't really be too hard on them in some aspects of all this because they did however, create the shows that I love. While it is widely known that, they sure could have done better with some of the writting they did for SG-1/SGA, all in all those two shows were a success in my opinion. We all make mistakes. I'll be the first to admit that I do. For example: When I first heard about SGA being cancelled I was furious! I got on the forums and just flat out raged.

Now that I'm calmed down quite a bit, I'm able to think more rationally. However, I'm still furious. Point is I can forgive them. But in this forgiveness, I'd like for them to see that they can not just do what they want, and try to force it upon people. From what I've seen is they were saying that they know what they did was good, and we all just needed to get past SG-1/SGA and see that.

WRONG ANSWER PAL!!!

While It does pain me greatly to say this. Stargate Universe was however indeed a good show...for those that liked it. Which we can all now plainly see were few and far between. Obviously not enough to keep the show going. I'm quite suprised it made it two seasons. I'm thinking they had them all filmed already, in advance. Is why they went ahead and aired them. I'm sure the plug had been pulled on it long before we ever knew about it.

So, here is the way I see that it all went down. The writers for Stargate, were tired of their job. They wanted to try some different techniques. So, they canned SGA, around the same time that BSG got canned. Appearently they thought that the Stargate fans were "Static" and would "Adept" to what ever they decided to do with the show. In other words, I guess they thought we would like SGU, just because it has the word "Stargate" in it. Then all the while, they were hoping to pick up a good portion of the viewers from BSG. Which, Obviously that plan failed misserably.

This reminds me of when Coke tried to change their formula. It really did not go so well for them. In fact that had to "Reboot" the original "Classic" Coke, in order to save face.


As, sad as it makes me, I doubt we will see a reboot of SGA.


I think what they should have done if they were tired of the writing they were doing. They should have let someone else have a stab at keeping it going. While they worked on something entirely different. If they would just make a whole new show, and give it that theme, it would have done a lot better. It could have had a chance to develop it's own fan base, instead of trying to supress an already existing one, that likes something totally different. It's like trying to sell a Toyota to someone that only likes Cheverlot. Your just barking up the wrong tree, this is all common sense.

There is an old saying, if it ain't broke don't fix it. And yes, SGA was going a little down hill, especially in season 5. They should have got some fresh new writers, and took a break. Is what they should have done.

All I know is I miss Stargate Atlantis. I'd really like to have it back. But, I know I won't ever see it again.


As far as how many bridges did they burn? It's really hard for me to say that, as I really don't have all the access to all the numbers and statistics that they do at my disposal. If I was a bet'ing man, I'd say that they have pretty much cause a lot of the SG-1/SGA fans to turn on them. I'm not really sure that people would watch SGA if they brought it back at this point, just because of the poor/cocky attitude they had about their work, that a lot of the fans did not approve of.

I'd say they did an effictive job at killing off the Stargate Genre.

I do however think if they were to sell the rights of Stargate Franchise to someone else, that it might stand a chance of being rebooted in the future.

The writers of FireFly could probably do some great things with it, I would imagine. I don't know who the writers for firefly are, but, from the shows I've been watching of FireFly on Hulu, the writting is a lot like that in Stargate. Serious, Action, Comedy. The writting for FireFly is probably better than that of Stargate actually.

So, if they will let it go, let someone else have a shot at it. I think it could do well again. But I think the Drama should stay in BSG, or they should create a whole new show to put their drama in. I mean surely they are smart enough to create a whole new franchise?


It would be nice if someone like BioWare made a good mmorpg for Stargate, that way I could get my stargate fix.