Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens

[YJ02]

Would you believe I actually saw this when it aired -during the mid game show- of the NFL
(Mrs GF was home sick today, and she likes watching the NFL for some reason)

you guys get the nfl live but have to wait for actual entertainment (when you have said something didn't get on the air yet there)?

bread and circus' everywhere

 

[shavedape]

I could do completely without any "Jedi ghosts" to be honest. It's fine that Obi-Wan stuck around as a voice in Luke's head telling him to "Use the Force" in the original movie, but they really don't need to take it farther than that.

 

[Overmind One]

I could do completely without any "Jedi ghosts" to be honest. It's fine that Obi-Wan stuck around as a voice in Luke's head telling him to "Use the Force" in the original movie, but they really don't need to take it farther than that.

One word: Abrams. He will overdo the ghosts, he will overdo everything. He will be approving the final cut of the film, and that is why I have predicted that it will be shiny and flashy but will be unoriginal overall. Like he did Star Trek. There is not one single thing JJ Abrams has done which makes me understand why he was chosen to do Star Trek or Star Wars other than he manages to make money. Making money in a flash of glory does not make sense when you want to have an enduring franchise grow. He ruined his own Star Trek reboot because it has no legs. It cannot go past three movies the way it is. It's like he rigged the warp core(s) to run at 300%, and at the end of the run the engines are burned out and unrepairable. He will do the same with Star Wars, even though he is a fan.

JJ's style...

 

[Joelist]

Actually Lucasfilm approves the final cut. And that means Kathleen Kennedy. They have had their thumb on this ever since it was originally greenlit. Hence moves like bringing in Kasdan for the scriptwork specifically because he is considered the "guru" on how a Star Wars story should function. Or John Williams to do live (non-electronic) musical scores for the film. Or the deliberate emphasis on NOT using CGI unless there was no other way to get the effect.

So far the trailers bear it out - this looks like it will be very "throwback" in look and feel.

 

[shavedape]

Actually Lucasfilm approves the final cut. And that means Kathleen Kennedy. They have had their thumb on this ever since it was originally greenlit. Hence moves like bringing in Kasdan for the scriptwork specifically because he is considered the "guru" on how a Star Wars story should function. Or John Williams to do live (non-electronic) musical scores for the film. Or the deliberate emphasis on NOT using CGI unless there was no other way to get the effect.

So far the trailers bear it out - this looks like it will be very "throwback" in look and feel.

I hope you're right because "keeping it real" is what this franchise needs. Abrams seems to be the factor that they will need to* sit on to ensure verity towards this project. Which brings up the question (again) of why they went with him in the first place if their goal was to closely follow the original style? Why not just go with a lesser name director that they could more easily control? Why not go with a director that would fade into the background and let the film speak for itself?

Now I'm not saying that Abrams will trash the film, but if they have all these other factors in place to ensure a specific result why is he so important to the film? I'm not seeing anything special there that other directors couldn't bring to the table. Aagain, I'm not hating on him. I will certainly give him a chance. And I really hope he does a good job because I'm definitely a SW fan. But I don't see anything wrong with asking these questions or being a little wary.

*I know the filming is done already so should have used past tense there.

 

[Joelist]

Who knows? They may have wanted the specific expertise of Bad Robot Productions or something like that. Plus as we saw with Star Trek where his films feel much more like Star Wars than Star Trek he does have an innate understanding of how Star Wars feels.

What is interesting is that while JJ came and with him Bad Robot, his buddies (who usually follow him to every film) Orci, Kurtzman and Damon Lindelof are nowhere to be seen. Almost like they trust him but not too far.

 

[Overmind One]

Actually Lucasfilm approves the final cut. And that means Kathleen Kennedy. They have had their thumb on this ever since it was originally greenlit. Hence moves like bringing in Kasdan for the scriptwork specifically because he is considered the "guru" on how a Star Wars story should function. Or John Williams to do live (non-electronic) musical scores for the film. Or the deliberate emphasis on NOT using CGI unless there was no other way to get the effect.

So far the trailers bear it out - this looks like it will be very "throwback" in look and feel.

Abrams gets the final cut of the film.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-jj-abrams-final-cut/

More sources:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...s-star-wars-is-not-being-disney-fied-20151010

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/ne...r-wars-the-force-awakens.html#~prGz1q4bb8284C

From Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...ar-wars-the-force-awakens-is-nothing-to-fear/

Abrams also notes he has been given final cut for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Yes, there is a clause in the contract that could nullify that should something require it (“Umm, J.J., you can’t have Luke Skywalker doing a drunken karaoke of “Let It Go” while shooting Ewoks in the face!”), but otherwise Abrams is claiming that Bob Iger and Alan Horn make the movie that he and Kathleen Kennedy wanted to make. But the quote that set the Internet ablaze is the notion that no one was trying to “Disney-fy” this new Star Wars. Going back to at least 2009, when Walt Disney bought Marvel studios for $4 billion, there has been a fear that the Mouse House would take beloved geek properties and, well, “Disney-fy” them.

 

[Overmind One]

I hope you're right because "keeping it real" is what this franchise needs. Abrams seems to be the factor that they will need to* sit on to ensure verity towards this project. Which brings up the question (again) of why they went with him in the first place if their goal was to closely follow the original style? Why not just go with a lesser name director that they could more easily control? Why not go with a director that would fade into the background and let the film speak for itself?

Now I'm not saying that Abrams will trash the film, but if they have all these other factors in place to ensure a specific result why is he so important to the film? I'm not seeing anything special there that other directors couldn't bring to the table. Aagain, I'm not hating on him. I will certainly give him a chance. And I really hope he does a good job because I'm definitely a SW fan. But I don't see anything wrong with asking these questions or being a little wary.

*I know the filming is done already so should have used past tense there.

Abrams gets the final cut. Disney does not know much about science fiction, so they are not really in any position to make a judgement call. I think Abrams will make a blockbuster, and in the process he will put dents in the Star Wars franchise which will be long lasting.

 

[Joelist]

Now strikethrough "Disney" and insert "Lucasfilm". Even your links state that this is under the control of Lucasfilm. And that includes Abrams. And Lucasfilm does know a lot about both Science Fiction and Star Wars. Nor is it like Disney put their own people in to run Lucasfilm. Kathleen Kennedy is an old veteran of both Lucasfilm (all the Raiders films) and Spielberg as well.

In fact, all those links state that there has been no effort to "Disney-fy" the film. It sounds like Disney is leaving it up to the company they specifically bought for both the rights to the story and their expertise in telling that story (especially with Lucas himself gone - thankfully).

 

[Overmind One]

Now strikethrough "Disney" and insert "Lucasfilm". Even your links state that this is under the control of Lucasfilm. And that includes Abrams. And Lucasfilm does know a lot about both Science Fiction and Star Wars. Nor is it like Disney put their own people in to run Lucasfilm. Kathleen Kennedy is an old veteran of both Lucasfilm (all the Raiders films) and Spielberg as well.

No, JJ Abrams (the individual man) gets the final cut of the film. Its pretty clear. Not Lucasfilm. Not Disney, but JJ Abrams himself.

In fact, all those links state that there has been no effort to "Disney-fy" the film. It sounds like Disney is leaving it up to the company they specifically bought for both the rights to the story and their expertise in telling that story (especially with Lucas himself gone - thankfully).

They all clearly state that JJ Abrams gets the final cut of the film. What is the issue? I guess I should have also mentioned that although Lucasfilm/Disney are Abram's bosses, they have given HIM the final cut authority on the films rather than reserve it for themselves. More...

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/How-Much-Control-J-J-Abrams-Actually-Has-Over-Star-Wars-87607.html

Excerpt:

To be perfectly honest, the idea of J.J. Abrams having true final cut on Star Wars: The Force Awakens - as in 100% approval on everything featured in the version of the movie sent to theaters - is just a tad bit ludicrous. Back in October 2012, Disney paid a cool $4.05 billion for the ownership of Lucasfilm and the rights to Star Wars, and it's pretty impossible to believe that they would put potentially the most important movie in the series (again, the title that will launch the new era of titles) all in the hands of one guy.

That being said, one could see how J.J. Abrams talked himself into a better position when it came to the issue of final cut for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Let's not forget that in December 2012 he actually turned down the opportunity to helm the film, only to wind up signing a deal one month later. It's pretty clear that Disney and Lucasfilm really wanted Abrams to make their movie, and that surely allowed him a great negotiation stance.

 

[Joelist]

The article you quoted isn't saying what you think it is saying. The comment you quoted is them saying it would be ridiculous to think that Abrams has full unfettered final cut authority. In fact they actually quote Abrams himself saying pretty much the opposite:

When you do a Disney project, there’s a clause in there that you kind of go, ‘Well, if I were a lawyer I could probably drive a truck through it…'

In other words there is an override clause on his final cut.

 

[Overmind One]

The article you quoted isn't saying what you think it is saying. The comment you quoted is them saying it would be ridiculous to think that Abrams has full unfettered final cut authority. In fact they actually quote Abrams himself saying pretty much the opposite:



In other words there is an override clause on his final cut.

Yes, but he gets the final cut...that was what I was saying. I doubt the clause will be invoked, because neither Disney or Lucasfilm knows any better than Abrams does. Lucasfilm approved the prequels too...

 

[Joelist]

George Lucas owned Lucasfilm and ran it at the time of the prequels - of course he approved his own films. Lest we forget he was director, executive producer, head editor et al - about the only thing he didn't do was act in them (unless.......who really played Jar Jar Binks....).

Kathleen Kennedy runs Lucasfilm now and does have a long background with both Lucas and Spielberg. If there were any significant misgivings in the Lucasfilm braintrust over the film they would have invoked the clause, as there is too much riding on this for even a partial misfire - if they want a successful film franchise launched this film needs to not just make money but be well regarded (to build for the next film).

It's part of what has been interesting about the trailers so far. They have very, very much looked and felt distinctly Star Wars Original Trilogy. In fact the second trailer felt so Original Trilogy that it could potentially be mistaken for cut scenes from one or more of the three original films.

 

[Overmind One]

George Lucas owned Lucasfilm and ran it at the time of the prequels - of course he approved his own films. Lest we forget he was director, executive producer, head editor et al - about the only thing he didn't do was act in them (unless.......who really played Jar Jar Binks....).

Kathleen Kennedy runs Lucasfilm now and does have a long background with both Lucas and Spielberg. If there were any significant misgivings in the Lucasfilm braintrust over the film they would have invoked the clause, as there is too much riding on this for even a partial misfire - if they want a successful film franchise launched this film needs to not just make money but be well regarded (to build for the next film).

It's part of what has been interesting about the trailers so far. They have very, very much looked and felt distinctly Star Wars Original Trilogy. In fact the second trailer felt so Original Trilogy that it could potentially be mistaken for cut scenes from one or more of the three original films.

I hate being so cynical, but I refuse to get excited about this until I am certain Star Wars did not suffer the same fate as NuTrek did. Visually, I think it will amaze and entertain. But the story of Star Wars was what it was always about, as much as the visuals. I wonder if any of these newer films are ever audience tested? They used to be, years ago. Without that, we just have a handful of individuals who are signing off on a phenomenon of fantasy storytelling. Right about Kathleen Kennedy. She was a producer of E.T. and Jurassic Park and dozens of other films, but nothing involved with Star Wars. So, although I know she is one of Abram's bossed, both Disney execs and Lucasfilm decided that it would be Abrams who decided the final cut which means it could still be ruined by him. I am not seeing where Kathleen Kennedy is going to be able to decide what a good Star Wars film is. She wont be "picky" and that is what we need. To me, it seemed that Star Wars: A New Hope just bursted out of nowhere and took the world by storm.

I love the trailers they have been releasing, though. I love the LOOK of it. I think they have the music nailed too, at least from what I have heard on the trailers. The story will be the key.

 

[shavedape]

I'm not sold on the rolly poly droid yet to be honest. And what little I saw of the space stuff made me think of Abrams' Trek. Sorry, just being honest here.

 

[Joelist]

I was a lot more cynical earlier on, but things like Kennedy calling in Lawrence Kasdan both to write and to make sure the story had the proper elements and structure for Star Wars, the set reports showing the deliberate move away from CGI, live orchestral music by Williams as opposed to electronic stuff, Disney letting Lucasfilm run the show and, yes, Lucasfilm jettisoning the EU and putting Star Wars literary products in the same system Star Trek uses are causes for encouragement.

 

[Joelist]

I'm not sold on the rolly poly droid yet to be honest. And what little I saw of the space stuff made me think of Abrams' Trek. Sorry, just being honest here.

The rolling droid is consistent with Droids seen in Star Wars (as in all shapes and sizes). And the space stuff looks Star Wars - which makes sense because the space stuff in Abrams Star Trek looks like Star Wars too. That was a major critique of Abrams doing Star Trek - he made Star Trek as if it were Star Wars. And the two are fundamentally different. One is Science Fiction and the other is High Fantasy with spaceships.

 

[shavedape]

The rolling droid is consistent with Droids seen in Star Wars (as in all shapes and sizes). And the space stuff looks Star Wars - which makes sense because the space stuff in Abrams Star Trek looks like Star Wars too. That was a major critique of Abrams doing Star Trek - he made Star Trek as if it were Star Wars. And the two are fundamentally different. One is Science Fiction and the other is High Fantasy with spaceships.

I'm not sure I agree that the droid is consistent with the SW-verse. I'll have to see more of it to have a solid opinion to be honest. Same with the movie in toto. Perhaps what I should have said about the space scene I saw was that it struck me as being very Abrams-esque.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm not sold on the rolly poly droid yet to be honest. And what little I saw of the space stuff made me think of Abrams' Trek. Sorry, just being honest here.

I said that when they unveiled him. BB2? Really? His design makes no sense. What sort of droid is he? How is he used? I suppose we will see, but he seems to have no function attached to his form. A lot of good he would be on an inclined surface, huh? What about mud or water? WHY does he roll when speeders and even Yoda's chair have anti-grav? To me he is just a gimmick to TRY and one up R2D2 and force his self-declared cuteness into our hearts.

I dunno...there is a disturbance in the Force IMO. I am feeling a feeling of Trek Suck coming on for Star Wars. Why do I get this vibe that JJ Abrams seriously wants to be the new Steven Speilberg? I think this movie will be shiny and loud and full of action and lights and be fast paced. But it's story and the way the elements come together is what makes Star Wars. He utterly failed at doing Trek IMO. And he left it in a shambles. Even if they have to dump him after Star Wars VII, what if the damage he does is long ranging?

 

[Overmind One]

The rolling droid is consistent with Droids seen in Star Wars (as in all shapes and sizes). And the space stuff looks Star Wars - which makes sense because the space stuff in Abrams Star Trek looks like Star Wars too. That was a major critique of Abrams doing Star Trek - he made Star Trek as if it were Star Wars. And the two are fundamentally different. One is Science Fiction and the other is High Fantasy with spaceships.

GREAT observation. I agree with Ape about the rolling droid not fitting in with Star Wars. But I also agree with you about the space scenes in Trek (and some of the first film) being done more like Star Wars than Star Trek. And that last statement about Trek being Scifi and Star Wars being Fantasy, that was true until Abrams made BOTH of them fantasy. . NuTrek does not pass for science fiction anymore.