Star Wars 1-3: The Prequels. Why do so many people hate them?

[Overmind One]

Thank you for proficiently proving my point in two paragraphs, than I could in a thesis paper.

It is an avatar, Dr Who character, guess whom.

There is no avatar showing....but it could be Sylvester McCoy?

 

[Errant of Patha]

There is no avatar showing....but it could be Sylvester McCoy?

Nope not McCoy.

 

[YJ02]

I thought this deserved it's own thread. Most Star Wars fans say they hate the prequel movies The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. It is not always clear why they are hated, but a variety of reasons are usually commonly listed:

• The over use of CGI
• The "clean and pretty" look of everything
• Anakin (both the child and the adult)
• The relationship between Padme and Anakin
• Padme (her being a politician)
• The invention of the Midichlorians
• Dumbing down of characters (Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin)
• Centering the story around trade disputes.
• The Jedi Council
• Design elements
• Boba Fett

On the other hand, there are websites with articles and fans of the prequels who believe that they are not only good, but BETTER than the original trilogy films.

Your thoughts?

the CGI is what irked me

everything else? I just tried to focus on what plot parts tied in with what we know already-that is, everything in the main leading up to EP 4

 

[YJ02]

She must have gotten plastic surgery too.



I don't watch Rebels because of Ashoka, and because the writing took a dump.

What do you mean by the plastic surgery? She is older now-in CW she was a teen, she has ages by what was it between CWs and REBELS? 17yrs or so?

I think if someone skips out on REBELS they may miss something in background for the new films--just a feeling--a feeling I haven't had since.....

 

[Overmind One]

What do you mean by the plastic surgery? She is older now-in CW she was a teen, she has ages by what was it between CWs and REBELS? 17yrs or so?

I think if someone skips out on REBELS they may miss something in background for the new films--just a feeling--a feeling I haven't had since.....

She looks physically MUCH MUCH different. Where are her full lips and why is her face now narrow instead of round? Believe it or not, in TCW she was seen as the "ethnic" character, and her physical features could have been mistaken for a number of non-European peoples. The new one looks "whitewashed" (yes, that is possible even though she is an alien). She does not look like she should look if properly aged in Rebels. Her lekka (spelling?) markings have changed dramatically too, and her eye color is different. She does not seem like the same character even though her voice is the same.

Read this for more lengthy discussions on it: https://ladygeekgirl.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/star-wars-rebels-ahsoka-tano-and-aesthetics/

I watched three episodes of Rebels and got turned off the writing right away. I did not stop watching until I saw Ashoka.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Nope not McCoy.

Big ears, looks bald, I would be guessing Chris Eccleston

 

[Bluce Ree]

Sure, but see, I believe he was seduced, not "tricked". I have to use the word "tricked" because it seems that despite all evidence, people believe he was tricked.
Do you think Vader was tricked?

No. He was seduced. The will to do evil comes from something that makes it attractive to the doer. If someone is tricked into being evil then they are not evil, merely stupid and not realizing they're doing evil shit.

Did Vader not know what he was getting into?
He wanted what the dark side offered did he not?

Yes, but they always seem to want more than what they get, don't they?
You can be seduced by something, and not get exactly what you were expecting, Ask trip about his Elantra.

Yes but then you leave. Vader didn't get tricked then just stay because he thought, "Oh, well. Since I'm already here ..."

She probably would have left when you whip out the 4"
Some things are harder to just get away from once you have walked through the door, and the darkside is certainly one of those things.

Why would the dark side be hard to get away from if you were tricked into it? If you need to be tricked into it then it wasn't powerfully attractive enough to seduce you by its own rights.

 

[Gatefan1976]

No. He was seduced. The will to do evil comes from something that makes it attractive to the doer. If someone is tricked into being evil then they are not evil, merely stupid and not realizing they're doing evil shit.



Yes but then you leave. Vader didn't get tricked then just stay because he thought, "Oh, well. Since I'm already here ..."


Why would the dark side be hard to get away from if you were tricked into it? If you need to be tricked into it then it wasn't powerfully attractive enough to seduce you by its own rights.

So, in short, we agree

 

[Bluce Ree]

So, in short, we agree

Of course. I was just pointing out that being "tricked" and "seduced" are far from being similar. The prequels show Anakin being tricked into joining the dark side, which I find stupid.

Anakin - "Wait ... what?!? Oh well, since I'm already here I might as well make the most of it. I'm too lazy to get up and leave."

 

[Overmind One]

Anakin was tricked. He was baited specifically by the prospect of finding a way to cheat death using the Dark Side. He was haunted regularly by the dreams of Padme dying, and Palpatine used the lure of claiming to be able to teach Anakin how do be more powerful than death. So, he was tricked. He stayed with the Dark Side and did the bidding of the Emperor because he was told it would strengthen his Dark Side powers.

 

[Overmind One]

What do you mean by the plastic surgery? She is older now-in CW she was a teen, she has ages by what was it between CWs and REBELS? 17yrs or so?

I think if someone skips out on REBELS they may miss something in background for the new films--just a feeling--a feeling I haven't had since.....

Here is my issue visually....



The older Ashoka looks NOTHING like the original. Everything about her is different, including her markings. Now, she looks like a white girl from the East End wearing funky clothes.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Of course. I was just pointing out that being "tricked" and "seduced" are far from being similar. The prequels show Anakin being tricked into joining the dark side, which I find stupid.

Ahh, so we do not agree on the issue.
How was he "tricked"?
If indeed he -was- tricked, what does he have to go back to? He's just helped Palpatine kill the leader of the Jedi (and if Anakin did not interfere, we can be pretty certain Mace would have won that fight,how do I make that assumption? umm, he was winning, and Palpatine had to go all wrinke faced corrupt and show his true colours for all to see)

Anakin - "Wait ... what?!? Oh well, since I'm already here I might as well make the most of it. I'm too lazy to get up and leave."

Again where is he gonna go? Palpatine is still holding the life of the woman he loves over his head, he is a murderer already, and the dark side has been growing in him since he slaughtered the sand people back on tattoine. Even keeping his relationship with Padme is darkside because it causes him to do things based of fear of loosing her, in fact you could argue that it is his fear of loss that drives him to the darkside at all, and once he gets there, it's simply too late for him to turn back. If he turns himself and Palpatine in, Padme will still die, and Palpatine plays on that, the same way he always has because he knows what makes Anakin tick.

I won't say that the -way- things happened in 1-3 was good, a lot of it was clearly handled in an atrocious manner, but just because they were handled badly, does not mean that they did not happen at all, or are not explained, no matter how briefly, or shallowly.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Again where is he gonna go?

Away from the dark side.

Palpatine is still holding the life of the woman he loves over his head, he is a murderer already, and the dark side has been growing in him since he slaughtered the sand people back on tattoine. Even keeping his relationship with Padme is darkside because it causes him to do things based of fear of loosing her,

Losing. "Loosing" someone is to render them loose. I only point this out because you consistently write it as "loose".

in fact you could argue that it is his fear of loss that drives him to the darkside at all, and once he gets there, it's simply too late for him to turn back. If he turns himself and Palpatine in, Padme will still die, and Palpatine plays on that, the same way he always has because he knows what makes Anakin tick.

I won't say that the -way- things happened in 1-3 was good, a lot of it was clearly handled in an atrocious manner, but just because they were handled badly, does not mean that they did not happen at all, or are not explained, no matter how briefly, or shallowly.

But Padme DID die, leaving no reason why Anakin should feel trapped by or want to stay in the dark side. This is where the prequels sucked donkey dick and destroyed the original "he was seduced" story. Palpatine essentially tricked and coerced him. That's hardly being seduced. Once you're unshackled, the first thing you would seek is revenge if a loved one is involved and the quickest exit from your circumstance, not "since I'm already here, let's see how I can maximize my return on this bullshit Palpatine tricked me into and held my wife hostage over."

What occurred in the prequel *did not happen* in the way it was portrayed if 4-6 are canon.

 

[Overmind One]

Away from the dark side.



Losing. "Loosing" someone is to render them loose. I only point this out because you consistently write it as "loose".



But Padme DID die, leaving no reason why Anakin should feel trapped by or want to stay in the dark side. This is where the prequels sucked donkey dick and destroyed the original "he was seduced" story. Palpatine essentially tricked and coerced him. That's hardly being seduced. Once you're unshackled, the first thing you would seek is revenge if a loved one is involved and the quickest exit from your circumstance, not "let's see how I can maximize my return on this bullshit Palpatine tricked me into and held my wife hostage over."

What occurred in the prequel *did not happen* in the way it was portrayed if 4-6 are canon.

How did Anakin not know that he did not kill Padme when the Emperor told him he did? Why couldn't he sense he newborn children?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Away from the dark side.

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did obi-wans apprentice.

Yep, that sounds exactly what happened to Anakin.
I can't believe you guys are getting so hopped up on the choice of one freaking word!!

Losing. "Loosing" someone is to render them loose. I only point this out because you consistently write it as "loose".

Must have been that comment about a 10" python, sorry.

But Padme DID die, leaving no reason why Anakin should feel trapped by or want to stay in the dark side.

Look how far gone he is at that point:

The guy has already lost it, enough to break the heart and the will to live of the person he claims he has done it all for.
There is -nothing- left for him, nor does he -want- to escape the dark side, he want to rule it, to be the all powerful ruler he said he was going to be from childhood.

This is where the prequels sucked donkey dick and destroyed the original "he was seduced" story. Palpatine essentially tricked and coerced him. That's hardly being seduced. Once you're unshackled, the first thing you would seek is revenge if a loved one is involved and the quickest exit from your circumstance, not "let's see how I can maximize my return on this bullshit Palpatine tricked me into and held my wife hostage over."

He held Anakin's own fears against him, and fear is the cornerstone of the dark side. Killing Padme, he all but did that himself. He SAW the results of his own actions, but instead of blaming himself, he blames everyone but. His vision has no context, and that lack of context leads the vision to come true.

What occurred in the prequel *did not happen* in the way it was portrayed if 4-6 are canon.

But it did, just not exactly like everyone had build years of fan theories on. Obi-wan tells Luke that Vader "betrayed and murdered his father", yet in the next film, we get daddy issues, does that make ANH "uncanon" somehow? Of course not.

Here is a handy, if fan made comparison (still using the words, but a few added visuals from 1-3) I came across while researching this discussion:

 

[Gatefan1976]

How did Anakin not know that he did not kill Padme when the Emperor told him he did? Why couldn't he sense he newborn children?

He -did- kill her, his actions made her give up the will to live. I sure, he did not slice her in half, but that makes him no less culpable, and the last he saw her, she was unconscious on the ground after he force choked her.
Did he care for her?
No
He blamed Obi-wan, and the Jedi and had a big arse battle with Obi-wan.
As for the kid's, seek your answers in ROTJ, where Obi-wan -specifically- said they were hidden from both Vader, and the Emperor, unless that answer is not canon as well..........

 

[Bluce Ree]

The guy has already lost it, enough to break the heart and the will to live of the person he claims he has done it all for.

And Palpatine is the one who caused all this. If it were you with your Aussie temper I'm sure you wouldn't have just tossed your hands in the air and decide to go with the flow. You'd have Palpatine for lunch, crapped him out then beat the pile of shit just to complete the circle.

I fail to see where he was seduced.

 

[Overmind One]

He -did- kill her, his actions made her give up the will to live. I sure, he did not slice her in half, but that makes him no less culpable, and the last he saw her, she was unconscious on the ground after he force choked her.
Did he care for her?
No
He blamed Obi-wan, and the Jedi and had a big arse battle with Obi-wan.
As for the kid's, seek your answers in ROTJ, where Obi-wan -specifically- said they were hidden from both Vader, and the Emperor, unless that answer is not canon as well..........

No. The Emperor told Anakin that in his rage he killed her. Why did you try that? And yes, Obi-Wan said that the kids were hidden, but that still does not answer the question as to why Vader/Anakin could not sense both Padme's actual death and those two children in the Force. And if they WERE hidden using Force powers, then somebody on the Jedi side knew how to see through the Force cloak that Palpatine was using to cloak himself, right? See what happens when you streeeeeetch to explain away flaws in these films?

 

[Overmind One]

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did obi-wans apprentice.

Yep, that sounds exactly what happened to Anakin.
I can't believe you guys are getting so hopped up on the choice of one freaking word!!

Oh, no you don't! You do not get to quote Obi-Wan's lines to Luke from the OT to explain away the flaws in the prequels. That bolded line was spoken to Luke by Yoda. What actually happened in Revenge of the Sith is that Anakin became concerned about Padme after having his nightmares about her death. He wanted to become the most powerful Jedi so that he could be more powerful than death (to save Padme). He was not "drawn" to the Dark Side. Palpatine explicitly offered to teach Anakin a way to prevent her from dying, and TRICKED him with that information. When Windu was going to kill Palpatine, Anakin killed Windu but not before saying "I need him!". He needed him to teach the way to cheat death.

Look how far gone he is at that point:

The guy has already lost it, enough to break the heart and the will to live of the person he claims he has done it all for.
There is -nothing- left for him, nor does he -want- to escape the dark side, he want to rule it, to be the all powerful ruler he said he was going to be from childhood.

That is still not the reason he went to the Dark Side.

He held Anakin's own fears against him, and fear is the cornerstone of the dark side. Killing Padme, he all but did that himself. He SAW the results of his own actions, but instead of blaming himself, he blames everyone but. His vision has no context, and that lack of context leads the vision to come true.

But it did, just not exactly like everyone had build years of fan theories on. Obi-wan tells Luke that Vader "betrayed and murdered his father", yet in the next film, we get daddy issues, does that make ANH "uncanon" somehow? Of course not.

Here is a handy, if fan made comparison (still using the words, but a few added visuals from 1-3) I came across while researching this discussion:

I disagree about why Padme died, because even if she lost the will to live (which she didnt...she died of complications), Anakin did not "kill" her like the Emperor said he did.

 

[Gatefan1976]

And Palpatine is the one who caused all this.

Did he make Anakin want to be "all powerful"?
No......
Did he make Anakin want to be a despot?
No...........
Did he make Anakin kill the sand people?
No.........
Did he make Anakin force choke Padme?
No.......

Did Palpatine lay out the breadcrumbs?
Yes.........
Did Palpatine take advantage of Anakin's fears?
Yes..........
Did Palpatine offer Anakin the power -he wanted for himself- ?
Yes..........

Palpatine offered -choices- to Anakin, and Anakin walked through the door all by himself. He was corrupted, seduced by the power that the dark side, in the form of Palpatine offered, but Palpatine -never- held a gun to his head and said "do it or die", until it was far too late for Anakin.

If I offer you a million bucks, because you have always wanted to be a millionare, but don't tell you the catch, it is still -your choice- to take the money. One might say you were seduced by the notion of being a millionare, I just offered you a way to do it.

If it were you with your Aussie temper I'm sure you wouldn't have just tossed your hands in the air and decide to go with the flow.

We are not all Mel Gibson, and he is a Yank DAMMIT!!

You'd have Palpatine for lunch, crapped him out then beat the pile of shit just to complete the circle.

IF I thought I had something left, probably.............

I fail to see where he was seduced.

He was offered what he wanted, and it's no ones fault but his own he did not read the fine print.

 

[Gatefan1976]

No. The Emperor told Anakin that in his rage he killed her.

You mean he LIED??
Well fuck me, what a surprise

Why did you try that? And yes, Obi-Wan said thatr the kids were hidden, but that still does not answer the question as to why Vader/Anakin could not sense both Padme's actual death

He was doing a Steve Austin impersonation at the time?
I dunno, I think that would be pretty distracting........

and those two children in the Force.

Why did Vader and the Emperor never find Obi-wan or Yoda?
Why do they even exist in ANH? Vader -should- have sensed them, right?
The Emperor for sure.

And if they WERE hidden using Force powers, then somebody on the Jedi side knew how to see through the Force cloak that Palpatine was using to cloak himself, right? See what happens when you streeeeeetch to explain away flaws in these films?

Umm............ no...........
They were not hidden with force powers, Luke lived on a backwards outer rim planet, and Leia was for all intents and purposes, the daughter of Bail Organa, and Vader was only ever expecting a son, not twins.
YODA was hidden by the force due to his proximity to the Tree on Degobah and Obi-wan hid out in the rim as well, they avoided the attention of the empire, they did not use the force to do it.