Star Wars 1-3: The Prequels. Why do so many people hate them?

[Gatefan1976]

Actually that particular "review" is part review part comedy schtick. And it put its authors (who are filmmakers themselves and screenwriters in their own right) on the proverbial map, getting notice and raves from individuals ranging from Simon Pegg to Roger Ebert among others. And they noted the whole element of how there was in depth analysis wrapped in a lowbrow comedy wrapper. So trying to dismiss it as some guy needing his fam dummy back is wide of the mark.

Oh, they are popular and famous people like them, well shit, guess I just must be wrong then.........
I know what it is dude, that does not mean I have to slavishly agree with it, or even consider it good, or in depth or anything. Normally, something like that would not even be on my radar, nor would I bother to spend the time to -really- look at it, but in this case, I did because it was offered up as evidence, and I see little evidence, but plenty of opinion.

As to why I regard the prequels as three of the worst movies ever made, it is the noxious combination of flat acting, poor writing, overuse of CGI and poor characterizations that make them bad movies.

That's fine Joe, I am not arguing with you or OM about how you feel about the movies man, that's entirely how you feel, and I'm not gonna tell you how to feel about a movie!!

Where they go beyond bad to me is the huge violence they did to what was a well written sci-fantasy story in episodes 4-6. Even with the retconning Lucas did plus the work done in TCW and Rebels to try to make the prequels fit together with the OT they still don't align properly. Here are just a couple of the places:

OK, lets go

- In the OT Vader was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. It was that simple. Then in the prequels it is turned into Vader in essence being tricked into the Dark Side? It was ridiculous.

Umm, you do know the art of seduction is tricking someone into doing what you want, right?
Rediculous, sure. Inaccurate, nope.

- In the OT Obi-Wan flat out states that the predicament they are in is his fault. He flatly states that he took it on himself to train Anakin as a Jedi believing he could train him as well as Yoda. Meanwhile, in the prequels we have the Council (including Yoda) direct Obi Wan to train Anakin.

Why did Anakin get trained at all?
Qui-Gon wanted it, and Obi-wan took it upon himself to train him to fulfil his dying wish. Obi-wan could have said nothing and Anakin would not have been trained.

Obi-Wan: The boy is dangerous. They all sense it, why can't you?

Qui-Gon Jinn: I'm not allowed to train you, so I want you watch me and be mindful. Always remember, your focus determines your reality.

Qui-Gon Jinn: [mumbles, as Obi-Wan sits him up after battle with Darth Maul] Uhh, it's too late, it...
Obi-Wan: No!
Qui-Gon Jinn: Obi-Wan, promise... Promise me you will train the boy.
Obi-Wan: Yes, master.
Qui-Gon Jinn: [wiping a tear from Obi-Wan's right cheek] He is the chosen one. He will bring balance. Train him.
[nods, cries over Qui-Gon Jinn's body]

Obi-Wan: The council has granted me permission to train you. You will be a Jedi, I promise.

So, the council denied Qui-Gon, and only after his death do they agree to let Obi-wan train him, and Yoda does not even agree with the decision. It -was- Obi-wans "fault".

- In the OT it is made pretty clear that the reason Luke prevails against the Emperor's luring him to the Dark Side was his being a fully trained Jedi Knight, and that it was the lack of said training in Vader that led to his turning. Meanwhile, in the prequels fully trained Jedi Anakin turns pretty much for no logical reason and on the basis of spurious statements from someone obviously not trustworthy.

Luke cannot bring himself to kill his own father because he knows it is the path that leads to the dark side, He chops off Vader's hand, looks at his own prosthetic (the same one he cut off Vader in anger) and realised how close he is coming to falling to the dark side. He speaks from pride, and the desire to still see good in Vader. Anakin turns to the dark side because he fears for Padme, and he has just helped Palpatine kill the leader of the Jedi council.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, some wise words from Yoda, oh, from Episode I.............

- In the OT Yoda comes across as wise and as not needing things like lightsabers. Indeed in the OT it comes across as swordplay is secondary to a Jedi and that proper use of the Force is primary. In the prequels it is reversed and Yoda does come off as stupid (as do a lot of characters).

You never -see- Yoda in a fight in Ep 5, where is the basis for that thought?
Proper use of the force?
What proper use of the force?
Go back and watch 4-6 again Joe, because the use of the force is minimal in 4-6. A few mind tricks, some TK, some farsight, some precognition, - all- used to advance the story. There is far more lightsaber combat, especially in 6 than any other use of the force. What is the -first- thing Obi-wan gives Luke? A lightsaber. What is the first thing he begins to train him in? Lightsaber combat, but that is somehow a secondary concern? Qui-Gon uses the force in this "proper way" more in Ep I than Luke probably does in all of 4-6 combined.

And so on and so on and so on.

Please, continue.

Obviously we will never agree on this. For some reason you hold the prequels to be better than I do. That's fine.

That is a copout. I have said -several times- I don't hold them up in any high standing, think they are fantastic or any other appellation you -seem- to think I hold them up in. They were fairly boring and badly written. I liked the lightsaber duels, because I like swordplay (finding out Christopher Lee was going to play Dooku gave me a full on sword-geek-gasm), and I liked the space battles, cause I am an aircraft/spaceship nut, but not much else. What I -am- arguing is that they don't break continuity, (though they handle it very badly due to crap writing), and for all these "Yoda was dumb" comparisons simply have no legs to stand on.
Like I said to OM, you think it was crap, cool, you think Yoda was dumb, I disagree -with the evidence given-. Don't forget, that is what I am arguing, not your feelings on the movies being bad.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I never said I liked the comedy schtick part of it. But it is how they presented the "review". Plinkett is a made up character (a centegenarian serial killer?). But yes under the schtick is a well reasoned critique.

I shot the crap out of it, without even trying. Would you like me to keep going on it?
Well reasoned my arse, it's popularist "I've got a feeling" crap given some kind of direction that fails to stand up to counter critique that relies on people not noticing that it is lacking FACTS.
That does not make it "unentertaining", it was more amusing than the movie being questioned, it merely makes it a bunch of opinions, and opinions are like arseholes, everyone has them, and half the time they are full of shit.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I agree here. Plinkett is rising in popularity, not sinking. And he is most definitely not just some internet meme here today gone tomorrow. I do think he overdid this particular piece...almost TWO HOURS?

Fifty shades of Gray is popular, does that make it good?

They made the movies about a trade dispute and politics? . They made the unfortunate decision to continue the dumb politics into Padme's character in TCW.

Well, she is the political leader of Naboo, they did not have much of a choice if they wanted her in there did they?
(of course, the choice to have her in 1-3 and her style of character was a pretty stupid one anyway.............)

Agree on all of that.

Disagree, see above.

He likes them, I think. Or, at least he does not hate them like we do.

How many times do I have to say I didn't like them before it sinks in??
I don't feel anything for them, they generate no emotional response as complete works, they are boring for the most part, bar the two bits I do like because of greater influences.
I like the Destiny because it is a cool looking spaceship, and it can solar recharge by sun-diving, in no way does that mean I like what happened on it, or the stories it was involved in. It's just a cool freaking ship, the end.

 

[Joelist]

Where to start.....

First off, none of your "rebuttals" even address the points made much less rebut them.

Starting with Vader being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. To seduce is to entice and/or tempt - that is the dictionary definition of it. That is WAY different than being tricked into something based on a false promise. One implies a corruption of the character and the other just being gullible. In the OT the corruption of Vader is implicit in his actions. The prequels turn him into just a gullible brat.

Then we get to Obi-Wan's fault. In the OT he made it crystal clear that he took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi BECAUSE he believed he could train him just as well as Yoda. The prequels introduced all the Jedi Council nonsense and made the training approved instead of what Obi Wan said. Quoting the prequels does not make any point here but in fact reinforces what I said, which is that the prequels changed the whole story of Vader's training. and their new one is both stupid and incompatible with the OT.

Then we get to Luke not turning. Why does he not turn? Well, because of all that training we got to see in The Empire Strikes Back. And what was that training focused on? Sensing the Force, control when using the Force and resisting the lure of the Dark Side. Yoda spells out the Dark Side clearly to Luke in his training.

Then we get to The OT (which I have seen and seen recently). Yoda NEVER engages in any combat or even produces a weapon in any of them. Nor does he teach Luke any swordplay - all of the training we see is of a very different nature. It centers on the proper mental state of a Jedi, sensing the Force, control, resisting the Dark Side and such. Yoda as a fighter only occurs in the prequels where it both looks ridiculous and demeans his character.

As to his lightsaber - Obi Wan gave him his father's lightsaber as a familial obligation per his own words in Star Wars. And the very brief bit of training (with the blast helmet) was not about swordplay - it was about moving beyond using his eyes to sense his surroundings (again per Obi Wan's own statement about Luke taking a first step into a larger world).

Nothing I stated here or upthread was rebutted. Nor were the facts brought forth (and yes they are facts contrary to assertions) about Yoda's dumbness in the prequels. Specific dumb acts were cited as well as inability to think logically. Nor did any of your posts "shoot the crap" out of either posts in this thread or the video review.

And...this is why I dislike getting into arguments. Nothing either OM or I or anyone say will change your mind on this. For whatever reason you've decided to have a fight defending the prequels while at the same time claiming you don't like them. And especially with the borderline insulting tone of the last missive I can see that this is heading into hard feelings territory - and I do not want to be the cause of hard feelings.

 

[Overmind One]

How many times do I have to say I didn't like them before it sinks in??
I don't feel anything for them, they generate no emotional response as complete works, they are boring for the most part, bar the two bits I do like because of greater influences.
I like the Destiny because it is a cool looking spaceship, and it can solar recharge by sun-diving, in no way does that mean I like what happened on it, or the stories it was involved in. It's just a cool freaking ship, the end.

Your words say one thing but you are CLEARLY defending these prequel films and making excuses for the flaws in them by trying to explain them away. You do not like them, you say...but you are fiercely defending them...multiple times. You took a similar stance with Stargate Universe (the threads are still in these forums). Nothing wrong with that, but don't claim you have no emotional response or don't like things and then go out of your way to defend them without expecting to be called out on the conflicting behavior. If you think the prequels are passable, then you do. Why say you don't like them, but then defend them?

 

[Overmind One]

Where to start.....

First off, none of your "rebuttals" even address the points made much less rebut them.

Starting with Vader being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. To seduce is to entice and/or tempt - that is the dictionary definition of it. That is WAY different than being tricked into something based on a false promise. One implies a corruption of the character and the other just being gullible. In the OT the corruption of Vader is implicit in his actions. The prequels turn him into just a gullible brat.

Then we get to Obi-Wan's fault. In the OT he made it crystal clear that he took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi BECAUSE he believed he could train him just as well as Yoda. The prequels introduced all the Jedi Council nonsense and made the training approved instead of what Obi Wan said. Quoting the prequels does not make any point here but in fact reinforces what I said, which is that the prequels changed the whole story of Vader's training. and their new one is both stupid and incompatible with the OT.

Then we get to Luke not turning. Why does he not turn? Well, because of all that training we got to see in The Empire Strikes Back. And what was that training focused on? Sensing the Force, control when using the Force and resisting the lure of the Dark Side. Yoda spells out the Dark Side clearly to Luke in his training.

Then we get to The OT (which I have seen and seen recently). Yoda NEVER engages in any combat or even produces a weapon in any of them. Nor does he teach Luke any swordplay - all of the training we see is of a very different nature. It centers on the proper mental state of a Jedi, sensing the Force, control, resisting the Dark Side and such. Yoda as a fighter only occurs in the prequels where it both looks ridiculous and demeans his character.

As to his lightsaber - Obi Wan gave him his father's lightsaber as a familial obligation per his own words in Star Wars. And the very brief bit of training (with the blast helmet) was not about swordplay - it was about moving beyond using his eyes to sense his surroundings (again per Obi Wan's own statement about Luke taking a first step into a larger world).

Nothing I stated here or upthread was rebutted. Nor were the facts brought forth (and yes they are facts contrary to assertions) about Yoda's dumbness in the prequels. Specific dumb acts were cited as well as inability to think logically. Nor did any of your posts "shoot the crap" out of either posts in this thread or the video review.

And...this is why I dislike getting into arguments. Nothing either OM or I or anyone say will change your mind on this. For whatever reason you've decided to have a fight defending the prequels while at the same time claiming you don't like them. And especially with the borderline insulting tone of the last missive I can see that this is heading into hard feelings territory - and I do not want to be the cause of hard feelings.

The group of people who are okay with the prequels is a very VERY small group. But they are viscous. There are countless blogs out there full of Star Wars fans explaining in detail why they hate the prequels. You have explained in detail what your issues are with it, and I concur with those and I have a few more like the designs of some of the ships and several of the scenes in the three movies. I have a problem with centering the prequels on Anakin and Padme's relationship and the dumb trade dispute and the politics that went along with that. I had a problem with Naboo, with Jar Jar, with Senator Palpatine and the whole secret cloning facility on Camino.

Having said all that, I am not expecting the next film to up the ante in terms of being as good as the OT because of Abram's involvement. I like the LOOK of the new film via what I have seen in the previews, but I am also wary because I felt the same way about Star Trek Into Darkness based on the previews (and also Star Trek 2009). Without experiencing the story unfolding, we do not know if we have a great looking (but mediocre) film waiting for us in December. It may be worse than any of the prequel films.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Where to start.....

First off, none of your "rebuttals" even address the points made much less rebut them.

None of your points (which you did not make) prove anything.

Starting with Vader being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. To seduce is to entice and/or tempt - that is the dictionary definition of it. That is WAY different than being tricked into something based on a false promise.

Bullshit.
Seduction is all about obsfucation of your goal. How do you think Bond keeps getting laid?
He lies, he deceives, he presents himself as something he is not, just like Palpatine did until the end.
Do you -know- what dictionaries -don't- tell you? CONTEXT.
Palpatine got Anakin to do what he wanted because the dark side offered him a power he has -always- wanted, power over life and death, and it is said in ALL of the first 3 movies. THAT is seduction of the first order.
Not seduction, pffftt.

One implies a corruption of the character and the other just being gullible. In the OT the corruption of Vader is implicit in his actions. The prequels turn him into just a gullible brat.

Garbage, show your proof. Just like OM, you are making assumptions, and then saying "my assumption is right, prove I am wrong." I provide quotes and context, you provide "but you are wrong"
Seriously??

Then we get to Obi-Wan's fault. In the OT he made it crystal clear that he took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi BECAUSE he believed he could train him just as well as Yoda.

Err, Yoda has hundreds of years of experience in training Jedi, anyone presuming they could train someone as well as Yoda is a stretch

The prequels introduced all the Jedi Council nonsense

That is a separate issue, and given that even in 4-6 it was called a religion, is it such a stretch to believe that Lucas envisaged a council to rule that religion? It happens in the real world now, and has for millennia.

and made the training approved instead of what Obi Wan said.

Obi-wan never mentioned if Anakins training was approved or not. Lack of evidence is not evidence, and it's a running theme so far in your argument.

Quoting the prequels does not make any point here but in fact reinforces what I said, which is that the prequels changed the whole story of Vader's training. and their new one is both stupid and incompatible with the OT.

No, it does not. Just because it is not presented in the -exact same way- means exactly stuff all. In fact, you will find that many of the truths you cling to depend greatly on your own point of view...........

Did Obi-wan train Anakin?
Yes.
Did he do a good of a job that Yoda may have?
No.
Both are true for all 6 movies, and you are confusing what you just don't like for what is actually said.
Are you going to argue that Anakin was not a pilot when Obi-wan met him, or how amazed he was at how strong he was with the force next?

Then we get to Luke not turning. Why does he not turn? Well, because of all that training we got to see in The Empire Strikes Back. And what was that training focused on? Sensing the Force, control when using the Force and resisting the lure of the Dark Side. Yoda spells out the Dark Side clearly to Luke in his training.

Yes, Yoda is a better teacher than Obi-wan was, what a shocker!!!
Where was that training when Vader goaded him into attacking? (both in going to Bespin, and threatening Leia)
Where was the control?
Luke did not stop until he went bugshit, cut off Vaders hand and realised just how close he was to slipping into the dark side, and you see it on screen. You SEE him try to turn his daddy back to the light, both in words and deeds, but nah, it's Yoda's training which never mentions turning a darksider back to the light.
Yeah, that's it..........

Then we get to The OT (which I have seen and seen recently). Yoda NEVER engages in any combat or even produces a weapon in any of them. Nor does he teach Luke any swordplay - all of the training we see is of a very different nature. It centers on the proper mental state of a Jedi, sensing the Force, control, resisting the Dark Side and such. Yoda as a fighter only occurs in the prequels where it both looks ridiculous and demeans his character.

Let's just call this bullshit for what it is, You didn't like it, therefore it is busted. He's a Jedi Master, a group that is best known for their lightsabre skill, but no, Yoda is a frigging pacifist. In fact, he is the -ONLY pacifist- out of the force users in 4-6, but yet he is the standard??
He's 20 years from dying of old age in TESB, but that has no impact on him not running around like a nut with a lightsabre.......
NAH, no sense in that, he just knows better........
He has been through a war that destroyed his "family", a family he has had for hundreds of years (and that is 4-6 canon), so he is a bit down on violence to solve problems. How suprising he did not focus on the more "warlike" aspects of being a Jedi. Shit, he did not even teach Luke to make a new lightsabre because his Precognition failed seeing Luke getting his hand cut off by Vader, why was he so dumb!!
If only he was wiser in 4-6, he could have solved so many problems!

As to his lightsaber - Obi Wan gave him his father's lightsaber as a familial obligation per his own words in Star Wars. And the very brief bit of training (with the blast helmet) was not about swordplay - it was about moving beyond using his eyes to sense his surroundings (again per Obi Wan's own statement about Luke taking a first step into a larger world).

What was he using those senses for again?
Why did he use a lightsabre to teach that lesson?
A lightsabre is not just a frigging laser sword, it represents their focus.

Nothing I stated here or upthread was rebutted. Nor were the facts brought forth (and yes they are facts contrary to assertions) about Yoda's dumbness in the prequels. Specific dumb acts were cited as well as inability to think logically. Nor did any of your posts "shoot the crap" out of either posts in this thread or the video review.

OK Joe.
I guess quotes just aren't good enough.

And...this is why I dislike getting into arguments. Nothing either OM or I or anyone say will change your mind on this. For whatever reason you've decided to have a fight defending the prequels while at the same time claiming you don't like them. And especially with the borderline insulting tone of the last missive I can see that this is heading into hard feelings territory - and I do not want to be the cause of hard feelings.

I have no hard feelings here, I called it a copout, because it was. I will call THIS a copout as well. Not because I want to have a "fight" with you Joe, but because I find your evidence crap, and I get tired of the little "oh, you are defending it, so you must like it" garbage that gets spewed. I don't have to like something to defend it. I don't like plenty of things that I defend, but I have the capability to separate what I might feel, with what is true.
You want to change my mind? Give me something worth doing it for!
I already agree the writing is shit, the subject matter has a lot of shit in it, it's boring, unexciting, uninteresting, and a waste of 6 odd hours to watch the 3 movies more than once, but because I defend a few things, I could burn my DVD's in front of you, and you would still say I liked it.
LOL!!

 

[Gatefan1976]

Your words say one thing but you are CLEARLY defending these prequel films and making excuses for the flaws in them by trying to explain them away. You do not like them, you say...but you are fiercely defending them...multiple times. You took a similar stance with Stargate Universe (the threads are still in these forums). Nothing wrong with that, but don't claim you have no emotional response or don't like things and then go out of your way to defend them without expecting to be called out on the conflicting behavior. If you think the prequels are passable, then you do. Why say you don't like them, but then defend them?

For the love of whatever.
Have I defended bad writing?
Bad characteriziation?
Bad storylines?
Bad CGI?

No, no, no, and (look out, this is a surprise) NO.

I am defending -Specific- issues, because the attack is bullshit. In NO WAY does that mean I have issues with other things.
Did I defend some aspects of SGU, yes, I did.
Did I ever defend it as a total package?
HELL NO (the threads are still here, look them up for yourself )

Yeah, I Joined SGUS, and stayed for 7 years, cause I want to defend SGU.............
Do you realise just how STUPID that sounds?

 

[Bluce Ree]

I could think of plenty of movies that are worse than 1-3.

Yes but none have caused more damage to an incredibly iconic franchise as those did.

 

[Bluce Ree]

None of your points (which you did not make) prove anything.

Bullshit.
Seduction is all about obsfucation of your goal. How do you think Bond keeps getting laid?

When you're seduced by something, you know clearly what you're being seduced by. The power of the dark side and all it offers was made irresistible to Vader, thus the seduction.

Being tricked is quite different. If I lie to you about what the dark side is and you fall into it, you were tricked, not seduced, as you did not know going in what the dark side was really all about. If someone is tricked into something, they would normally get themselves out once they figure out it was all a lie. Vader did no such thing and, instead, embraced the dark side.

Bond seduces women with his charm and charisma and knowing how to handle a woman. When they're done, it always ends with the woman shouting "Oh, James!". That is a seduction. She stayed because she couldn't resist.

Telling a women you've got a big ol' 9er tucked in your trousers that's gonna rock her world then whip out a 4" Slim Jim that lasts about 3 minutes is being tricked. She would leave and likely never come back because she was tricked.

 

[Overmind One]

For the love of whatever.
Have I defended bad writing?
Bad characteriziation?
Bad storylines?
Bad CGI?

No, no, no, and (look out, this is a surprise) NO.

I am defending -Specific- issues, because the attack is bullshit. In NO WAY does that mean I have issues with other things.
Did I defend some aspects of SGU, yes, I did.
Did I ever defend it as a total package?

I smell waffling! Both Joelist and I said that we FELT that Yoda was dumber, and we still feel that way. How is that a bullshit attack? You are defending the retarded Yoda of the prequels, and you are defending the character actions and making excuses for the sudden retardation the characters acquired after they made the prequels. AND you already know that the majority of the fanbase hates the prequels, thus you already know your arguments come from the minority within the Star Wars fanbase. Own it dude!

Yeah, I Joined SGUS, and stayed for 7 years, cause I want to defend SGU.............
Do you realise just how STUPID that sounds?

Um, SGUS was online as SGUS for a TWO years. Also, there were at least three other pro-SGU posters on that site, like Yoshicart. It was never a *requirement* that SGUS members hate SGU in order to join. Even here, some of us have changed our extreme stance against the show because of the way worse shit that has come out since. It's okay to like the prequels if you like them! If you DON'T like them, then explain please what it is in them that you do not like. So far, you have been defending things about them in a manner that indicates that you like them and that the things we saw in them are justified. Can you see yourself doing that?

Having said that, why defend the prequels by attacking the arguments and opinions of those who do not like the whole of the three prequel films because of the very things we are discussing?

 

[Gatefan1976]

When you're seduced by something, you know clearly what you're being seduced by. The power of the dark side and all it offers was made irresistible to Vader, thus the seduction.

Sure, but see, I believe he was seduced, not "tricked". I have to use the word "tricked" because it seems that despite all evidence, people believe he was tricked.
Do you think Vader was tricked?

Being tricked is quite different. If I lie to you about what the dark side is and you fall into it, you were tricked, not seduced, as you did not know going in what the dark side was really all about. If someone is tricked into something, they would normally get themselves out once they figure out it was all a lie. Vader did no such thing and, instead, embraced the dark side.

Did Vader not know what he was getting into?
He wanted what the dark side offered did he not?

Bond seduces women with his charm and charisma and knowing how to handle a woman. When they're done, it always ends with the woman shouting "Oh, James!". That is a seduction. She stayed because she couldn't resist.

Yes, but they always seem to want more than what they get, don't they?
You can be seduced by something, and not get exactly what you were expecting, Ask trip about his Elantra.

Telling a women you've got a big ol' 9er tucked in your trousers that's gonna rock her world then whip out a 4" Slim Jim that lasts about 3 minutes is being tricked. She would leave and likely never come back because she was tricked.

She probably would have left when you whip out the 4"
Some things are harder to just get away from once you have walked through the door, and the darkside is certainly one of those things.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I smell waffling! Both Joelist and I said that we FELT that Yoda was dumber, and we still feel that way.

And I said that's fine and I was not going to tell you how to feel, several times.

How is that a bullshit attack?

Eh? what? I said the "proof" is bullshit, I don't see it as an "attack" in the slightest. This is a somewhat amusing side diversion from doing the laundry.

You are defending the retarded Yoda of the prequels, and you are defending the character actions and making excuses for the sudden retardation the characters acquired after they made the prequels.

No, I am asking people to provide concrete proof that he was "retarded", and so far, I have not seen any -besides personal feelings-, which I have already said is out of my domain. You think he is retarded, cool. I ask why, and -I- get waffling "I just feel it and I can't put it into words"

AND you already know that the majority of the fanbase hates the prequels, thus you already know your arguments come from the minority within the Star Wars fanbase. Own it dude!

I am arguing against two people, and not backing down when I see what I feel is bunk reasoning. What else do I need to do to own it

Um, SGUS was online as SGUS for a TWO years. Also, there were at least three other pro-SGU posters on that site, like Yoshicart. It was never a *requirement* that SGUS members hate SGU in order to join. Even here, some of us have changed out extreme stance against the show because of the way worse shit that has come out since.

Dude, where are they now?
I hardly think I was ever pro-SGU BTW, I just liked a -select few- things, like the Destiny itself.

It's okay to like the prequels if you like them! If you DON'T like them, then explain please what it is in them that you do not like. So far, you have been defending things about them in a manner that indicates that you like them and that the things we saw in them are justified. Can you see yourself doing that?

No one has asked yet, and it was not the topic. If you would like me to do it, then I will when I get a chance

Having said that, why defend the prequels by attacking the arguments and opinions of those who do not like the whole of the three prequel films because of the very things we are discussing?

I am "defending" certain, specific things, not the whole series. Can you see that?

 

[Overmind One]

And I said that's fine and I was not going to tell you how to feel, several times.

Eh? what? I said the "proof" is bullshit, I don't see it as an "attack" in the slightest. This is a somewhat amusing side diversion from doing the laundry.

No, I am asking people to provide concrete proof that he was "retarded", and so far, I have not seen any -besides personal feelings-, which I have already said is out of my domain. You think he is retarded, cool. I ask why, and -I- get waffling "I just feel it and I can't put it into words"

I am arguing against two people, and not backing down when I see what I feel is bunk reasoning. What else do I need to do to own it


Dude, where are they now?
I hardly think I was ever pro-SGU BTW, I just liked a -select few- things, like the Destiny itself.

No one has asked yet, and it was not the topic. If you would like me to do it, then I will when I get a chance

I am "defending" certain, specific things, not the whole series. Can you see that?

Good answer...now, do you think you might be able to explain why you think the majority of the Star Wars fanbase hates the prequels? I have heard so many arguments. My nextdoor neighbor is a RABID Star Wars fan. He has a stormtrooper costume, and his office has Star Wars posters on the wall along with a huge framed poster of Boba Fett. He hates the prequels, and he can articulate his reasons play by play. he has even pre-purchased opening night Star Wars tickets for him and his wife.

 

[Errant of Patha]

Good answer...now, do you think you might be able to explain why you think the majority of the Star Wars fanbase hates the prequels? I have heard so many arguments. My nextdoor neighbor is a RABID Star Wars fan. He has a stormtrooper costume, and his office has Star Wars posters on the wall along with a huge framed poster of Boba Fett. He hates the prequels, and he can articulate his reasons play by play. he has even pre-purchased opening night Star Wars tickets for him and his wife.[/B]

Most people parrot what they hear, then go into attack mode when the parroted belief is questioned.

 

[Overmind One]

Most people parrot what they hear, then go into attack mode when the parroted belief is questioned.

Perhaps, but most of the people I have had this conversation with say exactly why they hate the prequels. They don't say "just because I dont like them".

Prequel hating in Star Wars actually needs it's own thread! Creating now....

 

[Overmind One]

move

 

[Errant of Patha]

Perhaps, but most of the people I have had this conversation with say exactly why they hate the prequels. They don't say "just because I dont like them".

Prequel hating in Star Wars actually needs it's own thread! Creating now....

Depends of the circle of people you talk to. The majority of Apple products user all agree the Droid sucks, the majority of Droid users are meh on the whole Apple/Droid debate. Under your logic of the majority of SW fans all agree the the prequels sucked, to the stated reasons, all Apple products are better under the same logic.

If you talk to the group of people who are meh on the whole prequel hate, you'll find these people only care about how the story told the back story of TOS. Don't care about the fanbois fighting over minute details, we find it boorish and off putting. Where do you think the term "nerd rage" was coined from?

 

[Overmind One]

Depends of the circle of people you talk to. The majority of Apple products user all agree the Droid sucks, the majority of Droid users are meh on the whole Apple/Droid debate. Under your logic of the majority of SW fans all agree the the prequels sucked, to the stated reasons, all Apple products are better under the same logic.

If you talk to the group of people who are meh on the whole prequel hate, you'll find these people only care about how the story told the back story of TOS. Don't care about the fanbois fighting over minute details, we find it boorish and off putting. Where do you think the term "nerd rage" was coined from?

Those are two different types of arguments. Apple folks are generally not technically proficient, so their ideas about Apple products are purely subjective. Everything from hardware to the performance of the operating system to the features of iOS vs Android are measurably inferior to Android. The processor, the speed of the system, the resolutions of the cameras and the screens, all are provably inferior to the premium Android offerings it competes against. It is not subjective. The Star Wars arguments are subjective on BOTH sides.

Star Wars fans are a devoted lot. The casual fans do not seem to have this prequel hate I see. At least not as much. Most everyone universally hates Jar Jar Binks, but other than that they are saying what you are saying, that the purpose of them was to tell the backstory of the OT. Me? I am not really a huge Star Wars fan at all, because I am a science fiction fan and Star Wars is NOT science fiction. My arguments with Star Wars fans usually centers around that aspect. Having said that, it does seem to me that the prequels were written for youngsters even moreso than the OT. The whole Force issue changed from the fight against Good and Evil in the OT to being a trade dispute in the prequels.

BTW, you need an avatar!

 

[Errant of Patha]

Those are two different types of arguments. Apple folks are generally not technically proficient, so their ideas about Apple products are purely subjective. Everything from hardware to the performance of the operating system to the features of iOS vs Android are measurably inferior to Android. The processor, the speed of the system, the resolutions of the cameras and the screens, all are provably inferior to the premium Android offerings it competes against. It is not subjective. The Star Wars arguments are subjective on BOTH sides.

Star Wars fans are a devoted lot. The casual fans do not seem to have this prequel hate I see. At least not as much. Most everyone universally hates Jar Jar Binks, but other than that they are saying what you are saying, that the purpose of them was to tell the backstory of the OT. Me? I am not really a huge Star Wars fan at all, because I am a science fiction fan and Star Wars is NOT science fiction. My arguments with Star Wars fans usually centers around that aspect. Having said that, it does seem to me that the prequels were written for youngsters even moreso than the OT. The whole Force issue changed from the fight against Good and Evil in the OT to being a trade dispute in the prequels.

BTW, you need an avatar!

Thank you for proficiently proving my point in two paragraphs, than I could in a thesis paper.

It is an avatar, Dr Who character, guess whom.