Star Trek VOY: General Discussion Thread

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
It was consistent with their building the first Flyer pretty quickly - and both Flyers were built after they had resolved the power issues (the power stuff was mostly in the first season and part of season two - then they were able to trade for dilithium and such IIRC).

That of course raises the question of why they kept the galley in operation once they had adequate sources of power. As it was unlikely that it was liking Neelix cooking (especially as they made it the butt of jokes in several episodes) I think it was more about not being profligate with the power (and even then they did have the crew replicating food pretty regularly after S1).
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
There is no way around it, it was a plot-hole of VOY.
HOWEVER.

Plot holes do not make a show "bad", being bad makes them bad, P.H. just give you something concrete to hang your hat on :P

THIS. And that is precisely why I still enjoy at least a weekly episode of Voyager played from my library. :) Its fun, entertaining, smart (mostly) and well written (mostly). Balanced entertainment with few eyerolls. Later, using an analytic eye however.... ;)
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
And lest we forget!!!!!

 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
It was consistent with their building the first Flyer pretty quickly - and both Flyers were built after they had resolved the power issues (the power stuff was mostly in the first season and part of season two - then they were able to trade for dilithium and such IIRC).

Dilithium stopped being a limited resource since The Voyage Home. :anim_59:. Im talking about stuff that we know was limited like replicator power. How the hell did they build these ablative armor emitters? Note the scale based on the window. These emitters were all over the ship.

USS_Voyager_during_ablative_generator_installation.jpg


Where did the power come from to power them?

That of course raises the question of why they kept the galley in operation once they had adequate sources of power. As it was unlikely that it was liking Neelix cooking (especially as they made it the butt of jokes in several episodes) I think it was more about not being profligate with the power (and even then they did have the crew replicating food pretty regularly after S1).

I think the phrase from Seven said it best: "His function aboard Voyager is diverse." :) He did add a bit of flavor to the show IMO. As silly as he was. :icon_cool:
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
When your tech advances by leaps and bounds as it does in Trek, there's hardly any room left for fiction per se. :icon_lol:

Did you notice that the characters in the Trek universe are nearly always fascinated with the past? Maybe that's the twist with being so advanced and practically having the universe at arm's length. You're left with imagining what it would be like to visit the past when shit was simpler.
Yeah, I was getting at that, how they seem to have this weird fetish for the past. I would have thought they would have dominated by using all the 29th century info they got from that stupid time travel two-parter. I mean, they got to keep doc's holo-emitter, or maybe it was just a convenient plot device to allow the doc to roam freely.

Also, these have become so frequently used that I can safely say: one person can disable all of voyager, Harry never figures out how to use a transporter (has a quota of at least one "there's too much interference captain" per episode), they are better at speculative "science" (handling spatial anomalies and whatnot) than the science of their own ship and instruments (getting them to work), Janeway's almost always right, and there's no off button for the holodecks (no main power relay that they can just unplug to disable the holodeck). I'm sure there's more.

Belanna had a pretty good episode, the Barge or something. Almost as good as the split klignon and human episode.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
It was consistent with their building the first Flyer pretty quickly - and both Flyers were built after they had resolved the power issues (the power stuff was mostly in the first season and part of season two - then they were able to trade for dilithium and such IIRC).

That of course raises the question of why they kept the galley in operation once they had adequate sources of power. As it was unlikely that it was liking Neelix cooking (especially as they made it the butt of jokes in several episodes) I think it was more about not being profligate with the power (and even then they did have the crew replicating food pretty regularly after S1).
Why does Sisko's dad run a restraunt on EARTH of all places in DS9?
--- merged: Apr 8, 2013 at 7:55 PM ---
THIS. And that is precisely why I still enjoy at least a weekly episode of Voyager played from my library. :) Its fun, entertaining, smart (mostly) and well written (mostly). Balanced entertainment with few eyerolls. Later, using an analytic eye however.... ;)

But that's the eye of analysis, it's a different beast to "being along for the ride". SG-1, SGA were LITTERED with plot holes, inconsistancies and whatknot. B5 is riddled with crappy visuals, Smallville is overrun with "teen angst" and Kryptonite!! Hell Boston legal which I know we both love is RIFE with bullshit rulings and decisions that would make even armchair lawyer blanch, but we ALLOW it because we ENJOY it, it's just a vehicle to tell stories.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
No doubt the show isn't perfect. Those of us here who like Voyager (you, me, Overmind and possibly others) like it because the good points outweigh the blemishes enough to make the show an enjoyable experience.

So, yes, some of the things the tech allows is pretty loopy. But on the whole the writing was smart and the acting really good. Also the characters on the whole were well drawn - in particular the show had one of the stronger collections of female characters seen in televised SciFi.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
No doubt the show isn't perfect. Those of us here who like Voyager (you, me, Overmind and possibly others) like it because the good points outweigh the blemishes enough to make the show an enjoyable experience.
To be quite honest, I like it more BECAUSE of it's failings, it still manages to tell a good story, stuff ups and all. :)

So, yes, some of the things the tech allows is pretty loopy. But on the whole the writing was smart and the acting really good. Also the characters on the whole were well drawn - in particular the show had one of the stronger collections of female characters seen in televised SciFi.
Damn right Joe, damn right.
There is an old saying, "it's not the tale, but he who tells it", and mostly that's true, but sometimes it actually is the tale, despite the way it's dealt with.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Why does Sisko's dad run a restaurant on EARTH of all places in DS9?

It was Sisko's "Earl Grey" signature. Let me explain...I notice that each captain starting with TNG had a signature phrase, or vice or "favorite thing". Captain Picard's signature was his "Earl Grey hot" and his secondary was reading classic novels. Captain Janeway's was her pot of hot coffee and her secondary was her love of Renaissance-era things. Sisko's was his baseball, and his secondary was creole-style cooking. Archer's primary was his beagle...not sure of the secondary. Looking into the personal lives of the ACTORS who played these captains, you find that they are plucked from the lives of the actors themselves. I can just hear the producers asking the actors what they loved in real life. Example from Scott Bakula:


Anyway, I sorta liked that subtle consistency of the original "new" Trek continuum. I hope they dont make Uhura be a connoisseur of alcoholic drinks, or make the new Scotty permanently have that crusted face alien as a sidekick. :(

But that's the eye of analysis, it's a different beast to "being along for the ride". SG-1, SGA were LITTERED with plot holes, inconsistancies and whatknot. B5 is riddled with crappy visuals, Smallville is overrun with "teen angst" and Kryptonite!! Hell Boston legal which I know we both love is RIFE with bullshit rulings and decisions that would make even armchair lawyer blanch, but we ALLOW it because we ENJOY it, it's just a vehicle to tell stories.

Completely true...but shows like SGU and (for me) NuBSG just crossed that line by too big a margin, making it seem like a blatant soap opera. Voyager never did that to me.
 
Last edited:

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
It was Siskko's "Earl Grey" signature. Let me explain...I notice that each captain starting with TNG had a signature phrase, or vice or "favorite thing". Captain Picard's signature was his "Earl Grey hot" and his secondary was reading classic novels. Captain Janeway's was her pot of hot coffee and her secondary was her love of Renaissance-era things. Sisko's was his baseball, and his secondary was creole-style cooking. Archer's primary was his beagle...not sure of the secondary. Looking into the personal lives of the ACTORS who played these captains, you find that they are plucked from the lives of the actors themselves. I can just hear the producers asking the actors what they loved in real life.
That's fine, but WHY have a restraunt on EARTH? (IE, why have the galley in VOY after you fix the power problems) You don't really NEED either, it's just for story flavour yeah?

Anyway, I sorta liked that subtle consistency of the original "new" Trek continuum. I hope they dont make Uhura be a connoisseur of alcoholic drinks, or make the new Scotty permanently have that crusted face alien as a sidekick. :(
I would recommend you get used to more............

Completely true...but shows like SGU and (for me) NuBSG just crossed that line by too big a margin, making it seem like a blatant soap opera. Voyager never did that to me.
Sure, you did not enjoy the vehicle, nor did I with SGU, but I did not mind so much in NuBSG until S4 when it was thrown at you like they were waiting for shit to stick sometimes.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
That's fine, but WHY have a restraunt on EARTH? (IE, why have the galley in VOY after you fix the power problems) You don't really NEED either, it's just for story flavour yeah?


I would recommend you get used to more............


Sure, you did not enjoy the vehicle, nor did I with SGU, but I did not mind so much in NuBSG until S4 when it was thrown at you like they were waiting for shit to stick sometimes.

I thought S1 and S2 were the best, but the second half of S2 started getting too political and religious for my taste, S3 was unpalatable and I stopped watching.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
I thought S1 and S2 were the best, but the second half of S2 started getting too political and religious for my taste, S3 was unpalatable and I stopped watching.

I gave the show a chance, in spite of the forced sex changes and complete replacement of minorities but I threw my hands in the air when I saw Apollo in a suit and tie and deleted Syfylys from my guide's favorites list.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
BSG might have been less angsty if they had holodecks, and by angsty I mean shitty.


And by shitty you mean atrocious and should have been put down right after birth.
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
Ok so I finished Voyager finally. I feel I have the right to bitch about it. If you liked the show, that's fine, don't have to read this. I might curse a lot. All my opinion of course.

What a dull, mediocre show. It's not like a show you just hate right from the start and then drop. It's more right down in the middle to the point of being so mediocre that it's worse than hating it from the start and dropping it. You keep watching, hoping the show will grow a pair of fucking balls. But no. Almost all of the characters are the most boring, dull people in Trek that I've seen so far.

The reset button was so annoying. It's so obviously there and does absolutely nothing but hamper on potentially good sci-fi. Any thought-provoking and/or potentially good episode is hampered by the continuous episode design of the reset button. They always structure the episodes in a way so that they can implement that. This really takes away any sense of accomplishment or achievement in Voyager, it's like nothing happened. Now about the characters.

Neelix was useless. His roles were useless. They could have had him be more knowledgeable about the Delta quadrant, but anyone with a half a brain is good enough to deal with the Delta quadrant. Their attempts at elevating his role were just sad and pathetic. Tuvok was allright, he was mostly just there, they shouldn't have delved into his Vulcan sex thing and tried to make it all serious and whatnot. Was just stupid. Don't get why they were trying to sell us this Neelix-Tuvok bromance thing or whatever the fuck they wanna call it.

Chakotay is nothing more than a cardboard character that is just there as wallpaper and nothing more. He has his Indian or whatever ancestry and his yo cootchie maya. Yo cootchie gofuckyourself. He lets Janeway walk all over him. Anytime he opposes her, Janeway castrates him on the spot or somewhere down the line. She just shoots him down everytime and almost always turns out to be right, which I contribute to preservation of all things Janeway.

Tom is the dullest of them all. How could you be so fucking boring? Your nostalgia for the past involves a 300-400 yr time period in Earth's history? That's all you fucking care about? Goddamnit, you fucking boring punkass. I hated that he hooked up with Belanna. The reason is cause this made Belanna a weaker character to me. Almost all of the episodes involving the two of them revolve around her acquiescing to Tom's fucking stupidass fetish of the past. Why couldn't you be interested in the Greeks? Or Norse? You fucking assturd, ruined the Holodeck with all your mediocre shit like that stupid Irish village. Got sick of his 'past' fetish and daddy's little girl routine.

Harry is such an incompetent dumbass. I've lost count of how many times he couldn't get a lock. You should be fucking studying the technical manual and everything about the transporters so you never have to say the words "there's too much interference". Go fucking open a book or something, you incompetent boob. By the end of the show, you should have had a fucking Nobel prize for your knowledge of the transporter system. Harry did more chicks than the supposed "playboy" of the crew, Tom. Almost all of his episodes revolve around him falling hard for some fucking chick. Go fucking study, you dumbass. Stop being Tom's beyatch. Tom apparently has time to fucking be a pilot, indulge his douchebag fetish, assist the Doctor, and be a husband. What the fuck are you doing? Maybe that's why you've never been promoted, but we know that's the producers and whatnot. And there's apparently some sex code in the prime directive, whatever Voyager, whatever.

My problem with Belanna was that she tried to be a character that was more than her Klignon genes, but almost all of her episodes revolved around her Klignon-ness. I wish there was something more to her than that. Also, the whole Stepford wife to Tom and his fucking bullshit. Oh Tom, please let me be a part of your bullshit fetish so that you pay attention to me. Fuck Tom.

Seven had lots of potential, that I felt was squandered by an overindulgence of Seven stories. Her and the Doctor pretty much owned the show with their stories. But I hated that she so willingly gave in to Janeway shoving humanity down her throat. Also hate that she's supposed to be all that in the intelligence department, but can't grasp basic social skills and set up more Borg enhancements that would have been beneficial to Voyager. And let's face it, she was basically a sex object. If you honestly do deny this, I just do not value your opinion at all. Her catsuit is not something that's "efficient" which seems to be among her defining characteristics. She should have realized that better social interactions allows her to perform more efficiently in conjunction with the rest of the crew. Her Chakotay lovestory was pretty bullshit, and the writers seemed to have pulled it out of their ass. And apparently she also succumbs to Holodeck obsession.

The Doctor, I liked for the most part. However, I absolutely hated that Voyager seems to have elevated all holodeck/photon beings to sentient beings capable of functioning like a human. I hated that he was a hologram. I mean, I would have liked it if they really delved into how he got sentience. What was the line he crossed to attaining a sense of being more than a hologram? But apparently all hologram people become sentient if you leave it on long enough or some bullshit. They could have made some hard sci-fi ventures here with the Doctor, but they gave him sentience right away. He had more humanness than the entire main cast. He apparently grasps an appreciate of abstract concepts such as art and music just by downloading some "subroutines", whatever the fuck they are. I wish they truly explored the science portion of this instead of the psychological route they went with instead, namely the people around him viewing him as a person. This guy had a massive ego for fuck's sake. That's extremely human. But how the fuck did he even attain such a thing?

Also, the doctor is a photonic being. Wish they shared how such beings work. I mean, he sees like a normal person or something? His eyes do the seeing? Or does he have sensors that just picks up on everything around him regardless of where his eyes are positioned on his photonic head. Instead of all the bullshit opera and other crap, why didn't he give himself multiple arms, or multiple eyes so he can see in every direction? He could never be surprised. He could attend multiple injuries at once by having detached arms or some shit. I have NO fucking idea why they didn't make clones of him. There should be multiple versions of him. And DON'T even say that there isn't enough space. The doctor could go around with a fucking mobile emitter and transfer his essence into that. When he goes on away missions, all of his essence is in that fucking contrived piece of shit. That means there's freed up space for another one of his essence on Voyager. So there could be two of him at all times. But no. He has to be a unique little snowflake. Fucking bullshit. Wish they actually explored the science-y elements of his existence and his potential to be more than just confined to some human form. They really should have explored the holodeck and photonic whatever potential. Would have made for much more interesting stories.

Janeway is meh. She tries to be all holier than thou, but I attribute that to all of the stories structured around preserving her sanctimonious, self-righteous decisions as the correct decisions. Hated that 'writer protection' that she got. All of her decisions were the right ones. And anytime there were story elements questioning her decisions in the respective present or the past, they raise valid questions and potentially good characterizations. But no, they quickly make the source of that objections to her character and choices become a cartoon villain. They quickly dismiss them as 'monster of the week'. And the questions raised dies with them. All of this, structured around preserving the status quo and usage of the almighty reset button. Her not violating Prime Directive is complete horseshit. Endgame is her prime example.

I hated how stupid this show was. Hated the time travel bullshit and the whole timecops thing. They introduce this Starfleet Time whatever. But then they have all of those fucking time travel episodes. Where the fuck were they then? That fucking Harry episode where he reset events in the past by sending that message, that species erasing other species with their bullshit outside of time vessel, and Endgame; where the fuck were they then? They completely ruined time travel stories by making them completely idiotic and moronic.

They also ruined Holodecks. Almost all of the Holodeck shit involved either one character lets holodeck time interfere with their work and lives, holodeck lounge place, and/or holodeck malfunctioning in the middle of some fucking program. At least, TNG's holodeck episodes were relatively fun and were good adventures. They went and did mysteries, explored the past, and whatnot. In Voyager, they went and did absolutely NOTHING in there. No exciting adventure whatsoever. Also, fuck Tom and all of his hologram shit. They essentially made holodeck adventures like how the show made star trek and deep space adventuring, they made it mediocre and dull.

Another thing that bothered me was the way they constantly had to resort to the previous show villains and races for most of their episodes. The Borg? I mean, ok fine, they had some interesting ideas. But the execution (Borg children, dreamshare bullshit, etc.) left a bad taste. They could have really bold and explored the Borg in a way like never before, such as the origins of the Borg, or some other stuff. But instead, their sci-fi stories with the Borg are just so dull. I would often roll my eyes at the Borg stories. They could have delved into heavy sci-fi concepts but resolved themselves to humanizing Borgs and often in the form of children or something. Fuck the Borg.

They never made bold strides towards high concept sci-fi, like with the Borg. They constantly ground their stories to revolve around human affairs somehow. I mean, another example is the Q. They could have explored the Q in a very sci-fi manner or even historical manner. But instead, we get the Q pms'ing about their existence or some shit. What spoiled potential.

Ultimately though, I can't really blame the characters or the other stuff because it ultimately rests on the creators and producers. They seem to favour mediocrity and extreme blandness. They should have grown a pair of balls. They could have had some really good sci-fi concepts and whatnot living in this day and age. But they constantly dumbed down the stories with ridiculous levels of technobabble, grounded mundane characterizations, and structuring their stories around the reset button. The technobabble was sort of a byproduct of them being overly liberal with Murphy's Law. Sometimes, people who try too hard at something are usually overcompensating for a lacking in that something, like Voyager does often with their sci part of the sci-fi.

Say what you will about TNG but their characters are larger than life and people that viewers can sort of look up to in a way. People were inspired by Geordi to become an engineer or Spock to do science, etc. Those characters are memorable and likable. To me, the characters in Voyager are completely forgettable and less than a shadow than most of the characters in the previous Treks. The creators really botched this one by dumbing it down by having characters that are themselves average; they should have been more bold and should have been the vanguard of sci-fi (especially Trek) with bold sci-fi concepts, deep philosophical questions, etc. They shouldn't have dumbed things down and instead should have challenged the viewers to expand their horizons rather than coddling them with dumbed down concepts and sci-fi exploration.

I think this series was the beginning of the dumbing down of Trek for mass appeal and may have led to the Trek we have now, stupid and dumb downed for mass appeal. I bet JJ liked Voyager.

Fuck Voyager.

That's all for now. If you honestly read all that, I don't know what to say, haha.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Ok so I finished Voyager finally. I feel I have the right to bitch about it. If you liked the show, that's fine, don't have to read this. I might curse a lot. All my opinion of course.

What a dull, mediocre show. It's not like a show you just hate right from the start and then drop. It's more right down in the middle to the point of being so mediocre that it's worse than hating it from the start and dropping it. You keep watching, hoping the show will grow a pair of fucking balls. But no. Almost all of the characters are the most boring, dull people in Trek that I've seen so far.

The reset button was so annoying. It's so obviously there and does absolutely nothing but hamper on potentially good sci-fi. Any thought-provoking and/or potentially good episode is hampered by the continuous episode design of the reset button. They always structure the episodes in a way so that they can implement that. This really takes away any sense of accomplishment or achievement in Voyager, it's like nothing happened. Now about the characters.

Neelix was useless. His roles were useless. They could have had him be more knowledgeable about the Delta quadrant, but anyone with a half a brain is good enough to deal with the Delta quadrant. Their attempts at elevating his role were just sad and pathetic. Tuvok was allright, he was mostly just there, they shouldn't have delved into his Vulcan sex thing and tried to make it all serious and whatnot. Was just stupid. Don't get why they were trying to sell us this Neelix-Tuvok bromance thing or whatever the fuck they wanna call it.

Chakotay is nothing more than a cardboard character that is just there as wallpaper and nothing more. He has his Indian or whatever ancestry and his yo cootchie maya. Yo cootchie gofuckyourself. He lets Janeway walk all over him. Anytime he opposes her, Janeway castrates him on the spot or somewhere down the line. She just shoots him down everytime and almost always turns out to be right, which I contribute to preservation of all things Janeway.

Tom is the dullest of them all. How could you be so fucking boring? Your nostalgia for the past involves a 300-400 yr time period in Earth's history? That's all you fucking care about? Goddamnit, you fucking boring punkass. I hated that he hooked up with Belanna. The reason is cause this made Belanna a weaker character to me. Almost all of the episodes involving the two of them revolve around her acquiescing to Tom's fucking stupidass fetish of the past. Why couldn't you be interested in the Greeks? Or Norse? You fucking assturd, ruined the Holodeck with all your mediocre shit like that stupid Irish village. Got sick of his 'past' fetish and daddy's little girl routine.

Harry is such an incompetent dumbass. I've lost count of how many times he couldn't get a lock. You should be fucking studying the technical manual and everything about the transporters so you never have to say the words "there's too much interference". Go fucking open a book or something, you incompetent boob. By the end of the show, you should have had a fucking Nobel prize for your knowledge of the transporter system. Harry did more chicks than the supposed "playboy" of the crew, Tom. Almost all of his episodes revolve around him falling hard for some fucking chick. Go fucking study, you dumbass. Stop being Tom's beyatch. Tom apparently has time to fucking be a pilot, indulge his douchebag fetish, assist the Doctor, and be a husband. What the fuck are you doing? Maybe that's why you've never been promoted, but we know that's the producers and whatnot. And there's apparently some sex code in the prime directive, whatever Voyager, whatever.

My problem with Belanna was that she tried to be a character that was more than her Klignon genes, but almost all of her episodes revolved around her Klignon-ness. I wish there was something more to her than that. Also, the whole Stepford wife to Tom and his fucking bullshit. Oh Tom, please let me be a part of your bullshit fetish so that you pay attention to me. Fuck Tom.

Seven had lots of potential, that I felt was squandered by an overindulgence of Seven stories. Her and the Doctor pretty much owned the show with their stories. But I hated that she so willingly gave in to Janeway shoving humanity down her throat. Also hate that she's supposed to be all that in the intelligence department, but can't grasp basic social skills and set up more Borg enhancements that would have been beneficial to Voyager. And let's face it, she was basically a sex object. If you honestly do deny this, I just do not value your opinion at all. Her catsuit is not something that's "efficient" which seems to be among her defining characteristics. She should have realized that better social interactions allows her to perform more efficiently in conjunction with the rest of the crew. Her Chakotay lovestory was pretty bullshit, and the writers seemed to have pulled it out of their ass. And apparently she also succumbs to Holodeck obsession.

The Doctor, I liked for the most part. However, I absolutely hated that Voyager seems to have elevated all holodeck/photon beings to sentient beings capable of functioning like a human. I hated that he was a hologram. I mean, I would have liked it if they really delved into how he got sentience. What was the line he crossed to attaining a sense of being more than a hologram? But apparently all hologram people become sentient if you leave it on long enough or some bullshit. They could have made some hard sci-fi ventures here with the Doctor, but they gave him sentience right away. He had more humanness than the entire main cast. He apparently grasps an appreciate of abstract concepts such as art and music just by downloading some "subroutines", whatever the fuck they are. I wish they truly explored the science portion of this instead of the psychological route they went with instead, namely the people around him viewing him as a person. This guy had a massive ego for fuck's sake. That's extremely human. But how the fuck did he even attain such a thing?

Also, the doctor is a photonic being. Wish they shared how such beings work. I mean, he sees like a normal person or something? His eyes do the seeing? Or does he have sensors that just picks up on everything around him regardless of where his eyes are positioned on his photonic head. Instead of all the bullshit opera and other crap, why didn't he give himself multiple arms, or multiple eyes so he can see in every direction? He could never be surprised. He could attend multiple injuries at once by having detached arms or some shit. I have NO fucking idea why they didn't make clones of him. There should be multiple versions of him. And DON'T even say that there isn't enough space. The doctor could go around with a fucking mobile emitter and transfer his essence into that. When he goes on away missions, all of his essence is in that fucking contrived piece of shit. That means there's freed up space for another one of his essence on Voyager. So there could be two of him at all times. But no. He has to be a unique little snowflake. Fucking bullshit. Wish they actually explored the science-y elements of his existence and his potential to be more than just confined to some human form. They really should have explored the holodeck and photonic whatever potential. Would have made for much more interesting stories.

Janeway is meh. She tries to be all holier than thou, but I attribute that to all of the stories structured around preserving her sanctimonious, self-righteous decisions as the correct decisions. Hated that 'writer protection' that she got. All of her decisions were the right ones. And anytime there were story elements questioning her decisions in the respective present or the past, they raise valid questions and potentially good characterizations. But no, they quickly make the source of that objections to her character and choices become a cartoon villain. They quickly dismiss them as 'monster of the week'. And the questions raised dies with them. All of this, structured around preserving the status quo and usage of the almighty reset button. Her not violating Prime Directive is complete horseshit. Endgame is her prime example.

I hated how stupid this show was. Hated the time travel bullshit and the whole timecops thing. They introduce this Starfleet Time whatever. But then they have all of those fucking time travel episodes. Where the fuck were they then? That fucking Harry episode where he reset events in the past by sending that message, that species erasing other species with their bullshit outside of time vessel, and Endgame; where the fuck were they then? They completely ruined time travel stories by making them completely idiotic and moronic.

They also ruined Holodecks. Almost all of the Holodeck shit involved either one character lets holodeck time interfere with their work and lives, holodeck lounge place, and/or holodeck malfunctioning in the middle of some fucking program. At least, TNG's holodeck episodes were relatively fun and were good adventures. They went and did mysteries, explored the past, and whatnot. In Voyager, they went and did absolutely NOTHING in there. No exciting adventure whatsoever. Also, fuck Tom and all of his hologram shit. They essentially made holodeck adventures like how the show made star trek and deep space adventuring, they made it mediocre and dull.

Another thing that bothered me was the way they constantly had to resort to the previous show villains and races for most of their episodes. The Borg? I mean, ok fine, they had some interesting ideas. But the execution (Borg children, dreamshare bullshit, etc.) left a bad taste. They could have really bold and explored the Borg in a way like never before, such as the origins of the Borg, or some other stuff. But instead, their sci-fi stories with the Borg are just so dull. I would often roll my eyes at the Borg stories. They could have delved into heavy sci-fi concepts but resolved themselves to humanizing Borgs and often in the form of children or something. Fuck the Borg.

They never made bold strides towards high concept sci-fi, like with the Borg. They constantly ground their stories to revolve around human affairs somehow. I mean, another example is the Q. They could have explored the Q in a very sci-fi manner or even historical manner. But instead, we get the Q pms'ing about their existence or some shit. What spoiled potential.

Ultimately though, I can't really blame the characters or the other stuff because it ultimately rests on the creators and producers. They seem to favour mediocrity and extreme blandness. They should have grown a pair of balls. They could have had some really good sci-fi concepts and whatnot living in this day and age. But they constantly dumbed down the stories with ridiculous levels of technobabble, grounded mundane characterizations, and structuring their stories around the reset button. The technobabble was sort of a byproduct of them being overly liberal with Murphy's Law. Sometimes, people who try too hard at something are usually overcompensating for a lacking in that something, like Voyager does often with their sci part of the sci-fi.

Say what you will about TNG but their characters are larger than life and people that viewers can sort of look up to in a way. People were inspired by Geordi to become an engineer or Spock to do science, etc. Those characters are memorable and likable. To me, the characters in Voyager are completely forgettable and less than a shadow than most of the characters in the previous Treks. The creators really botched this one by dumbing it down by having characters that are themselves average; they should have been more bold and should have been the vanguard of sci-fi (especially Trek) with bold sci-fi concepts, deep philosophical questions, etc. They shouldn't have dumbed things down and instead should have challenged the viewers to expand their horizons rather than coddling them with dumbed down concepts and sci-fi exploration.

I think this series was the beginning of the dumbing down of Trek for mass appeal and may have led to the Trek we have now, stupid and dumb downed for mass appeal. I bet JJ liked Voyager.

Fuck Voyager.

That's all for now. If you honestly read all that, I don't know what to say, haha.


Dude, that post is far too well written to hide in spoiler tags...I think you should un-spoil it. :) I dont agree, but you make perfectly valid and accurate observations about it. I totally understand that I am slightly biased pro Trek, but your observations are undeniable. Just my thoughts!
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
Spoilered it mostly for the length and in case someone that hasn't watched yet, but ok, will do. Have to move onto ENT now.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Ok so I finished Voyager finally. I feel I have the right to bitch about it. If you liked the show, that's fine, don't have to read this. I might curse a lot. All my opinion of course.

What a dull, mediocre show. It's not like a show you just hate right from the start and then drop. It's more right down in the middle to the point of being so mediocre that it's worse than hating it from the start and dropping it. You keep watching, hoping the show will grow a pair of fucking balls. But no. Almost all of the characters are the most boring, dull people in Trek that I've seen so far.

The reset button was so annoying. It's so obviously there and does absolutely nothing but hamper on potentially good sci-fi. Any thought-provoking and/or potentially good episode is hampered by the continuous episode design of the reset button. They always structure the episodes in a way so that they can implement that. This really takes away any sense of accomplishment or achievement in Voyager, it's like nothing happened. Now about the characters.

Neelix was useless. His roles were useless. They could have had him be more knowledgeable about the Delta quadrant, but anyone with a half a brain is good enough to deal with the Delta quadrant. Their attempts at elevating his role were just sad and pathetic. Tuvok was allright, he was mostly just there, they shouldn't have delved into his Vulcan sex thing and tried to make it all serious and whatnot. Was just stupid. Don't get why they were trying to sell us this Neelix-Tuvok bromance thing or whatever the fuck they wanna call it.

Chakotay is nothing more than a cardboard character that is just there as wallpaper and nothing more. He has his Indian or whatever ancestry and his yo cootchie maya. Yo cootchie gofuckyourself. He lets Janeway walk all over him. Anytime he opposes her, Janeway castrates him on the spot or somewhere down the line. She just shoots him down everytime and almost always turns out to be right, which I contribute to preservation of all things Janeway.

Tom is the dullest of them all. How could you be so fucking boring? Your nostalgia for the past involves a 300-400 yr time period in Earth's history? That's all you fucking care about? Goddamnit, you fucking boring punkass. I hated that he hooked up with Belanna. The reason is cause this made Belanna a weaker character to me. Almost all of the episodes involving the two of them revolve around her acquiescing to Tom's fucking stupidass fetish of the past. Why couldn't you be interested in the Greeks? Or Norse? You fucking assturd, ruined the Holodeck with all your mediocre shit like that stupid Irish village. Got sick of his 'past' fetish and daddy's little girl routine.

Harry is such an incompetent dumbass. I've lost count of how many times he couldn't get a lock. You should be fucking studying the technical manual and everything about the transporters so you never have to say the words "there's too much interference". Go fucking open a book or something, you incompetent boob. By the end of the show, you should have had a fucking Nobel prize for your knowledge of the transporter system. Harry did more chicks than the supposed "playboy" of the crew, Tom. Almost all of his episodes revolve around him falling hard for some fucking chick. Go fucking study, you dumbass. Stop being Tom's beyatch. Tom apparently has time to fucking be a pilot, indulge his douchebag fetish, assist the Doctor, and be a husband. What the fuck are you doing? Maybe that's why you've never been promoted, but we know that's the producers and whatnot. And there's apparently some sex code in the prime directive, whatever Voyager, whatever.

My problem with Belanna was that she tried to be a character that was more than her Klignon genes, but almost all of her episodes revolved around her Klignon-ness. I wish there was something more to her than that. Also, the whole Stepford wife to Tom and his fucking bullshit. Oh Tom, please let me be a part of your bullshit fetish so that you pay attention to me. Fuck Tom.

Seven had lots of potential, that I felt was squandered by an overindulgence of Seven stories. Her and the Doctor pretty much owned the show with their stories. But I hated that she so willingly gave in to Janeway shoving humanity down her throat. Also hate that she's supposed to be all that in the intelligence department, but can't grasp basic social skills and set up more Borg enhancements that would have been beneficial to Voyager. And let's face it, she was basically a sex object. If you honestly do deny this, I just do not value your opinion at all. Her catsuit is not something that's "efficient" which seems to be among her defining characteristics. She should have realized that better social interactions allows her to perform more efficiently in conjunction with the rest of the crew. Her Chakotay lovestory was pretty bullshit, and the writers seemed to have pulled it out of their ass. And apparently she also succumbs to Holodeck obsession.

The Doctor, I liked for the most part. However, I absolutely hated that Voyager seems to have elevated all holodeck/photon beings to sentient beings capable of functioning like a human. I hated that he was a hologram. I mean, I would have liked it if they really delved into how he got sentience. What was the line he crossed to attaining a sense of being more than a hologram? But apparently all hologram people become sentient if you leave it on long enough or some bullshit. They could have made some hard sci-fi ventures here with the Doctor, but they gave him sentience right away. He had more humanness than the entire main cast. He apparently grasps an appreciate of abstract concepts such as art and music just by downloading some "subroutines", whatever the fuck they are. I wish they truly explored the science portion of this instead of the psychological route they went with instead, namely the people around him viewing him as a person. This guy had a massive ego for fuck's sake. That's extremely human. But how the fuck did he even attain such a thing?

Also, the doctor is a photonic being. Wish they shared how such beings work. I mean, he sees like a normal person or something? His eyes do the seeing? Or does he have sensors that just picks up on everything around him regardless of where his eyes are positioned on his photonic head. Instead of all the bullshit opera and other crap, why didn't he give himself multiple arms, or multiple eyes so he can see in every direction? He could never be surprised. He could attend multiple injuries at once by having detached arms or some shit. I have NO fucking idea why they didn't make clones of him. There should be multiple versions of him. And DON'T even say that there isn't enough space. The doctor could go around with a fucking mobile emitter and transfer his essence into that. When he goes on away missions, all of his essence is in that fucking contrived piece of shit. That means there's freed up space for another one of his essence on Voyager. So there could be two of him at all times. But no. He has to be a unique little snowflake. Fucking bullshit. Wish they actually explored the science-y elements of his existence and his potential to be more than just confined to some human form. They really should have explored the holodeck and photonic whatever potential. Would have made for much more interesting stories.

Janeway is meh. She tries to be all holier than thou, but I attribute that to all of the stories structured around preserving her sanctimonious, self-righteous decisions as the correct decisions. Hated that 'writer protection' that she got. All of her decisions were the right ones. And anytime there were story elements questioning her decisions in the respective present or the past, they raise valid questions and potentially good characterizations. But no, they quickly make the source of that objections to her character and choices become a cartoon villain. They quickly dismiss them as 'monster of the week'. And the questions raised dies with them. All of this, structured around preserving the status quo and usage of the almighty reset button. Her not violating Prime Directive is complete horseshit. Endgame is her prime example.

I hated how stupid this show was. Hated the time travel bullshit and the whole timecops thing. They introduce this Starfleet Time whatever. But then they have all of those fucking time travel episodes. Where the fuck were they then? That fucking Harry episode where he reset events in the past by sending that message, that species erasing other species with their bullshit outside of time vessel, and Endgame; where the fuck were they then? They completely ruined time travel stories by making them completely idiotic and moronic.

They also ruined Holodecks. Almost all of the Holodeck shit involved either one character lets holodeck time interfere with their work and lives, holodeck lounge place, and/or holodeck malfunctioning in the middle of some fucking program. At least, TNG's holodeck episodes were relatively fun and were good adventures. They went and did mysteries, explored the past, and whatnot. In Voyager, they went and did absolutely NOTHING in there. No exciting adventure whatsoever. Also, fuck Tom and all of his hologram shit. They essentially made holodeck adventures like how the show made star trek and deep space adventuring, they made it mediocre and dull.

Another thing that bothered me was the way they constantly had to resort to the previous show villains and races for most of their episodes. The Borg? I mean, ok fine, they had some interesting ideas. But the execution (Borg children, dreamshare bullshit, etc.) left a bad taste. They could have really bold and explored the Borg in a way like never before, such as the origins of the Borg, or some other stuff. But instead, their sci-fi stories with the Borg are just so dull. I would often roll my eyes at the Borg stories. They could have delved into heavy sci-fi concepts but resolved themselves to humanizing Borgs and often in the form of children or something. Fuck the Borg.

They never made bold strides towards high concept sci-fi, like with the Borg. They constantly ground their stories to revolve around human affairs somehow. I mean, another example is the Q. They could have explored the Q in a very sci-fi manner or even historical manner. But instead, we get the Q pms'ing about their existence or some shit. What spoiled potential.

Ultimately though, I can't really blame the characters or the other stuff because it ultimately rests on the creators and producers. They seem to favour mediocrity and extreme blandness. They should have grown a pair of balls. They could have had some really good sci-fi concepts and whatnot living in this day and age. But they constantly dumbed down the stories with ridiculous levels of technobabble, grounded mundane characterizations, and structuring their stories around the reset button. The technobabble was sort of a byproduct of them being overly liberal with Murphy's Law. Sometimes, people who try too hard at something are usually overcompensating for a lacking in that something, like Voyager does often with their sci part of the sci-fi.

Say what you will about TNG but their characters are larger than life and people that viewers can sort of look up to in a way. People were inspired by Geordi to become an engineer or Spock to do science, etc. Those characters are memorable and likable. To me, the characters in Voyager are completely forgettable and less than a shadow than most of the characters in the previous Treks. The creators really botched this one by dumbing it down by having characters that are themselves average; they should have been more bold and should have been the vanguard of sci-fi (especially Trek) with bold sci-fi concepts, deep philosophical questions, etc. They shouldn't have dumbed things down and instead should have challenged the viewers to expand their horizons rather than coddling them with dumbed down concepts and sci-fi exploration.

I think this series was the beginning of the dumbing down of Trek for mass appeal and may have led to the Trek we have now, stupid and dumb downed for mass appeal. I bet JJ liked Voyager.

Fuck Voyager.

That's all for now. If you honestly read all that, I don't know what to say, haha.

YAY! Someone else who feels as I do about this show. Someone who understands and actually watched the show without wearing their trek-blinders. :icon_lol:

Will you do one on DS9 as well?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 

SciphonicStranger

Objects may be closer than they appear
Spoilered it mostly for the length and in case someone that hasn't watched yet, but ok, will do. Have to move onto ENT now.

I can't wait to read your rant about Enterprise. :cameron21:
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
I watched DS9 a while back and have mostly forgotten about it, it was kinda forgettable. I watched it after B5, so you can probably guess that I developed an initial bias against it from the start cause they essentially stole the entire premise and it was a pale shadow of B5. They could have compressed DS9 to fewer seasons and cut out all of the filler, would have made it better maybe. Haha, thinking back, it was like how Voyager is to TNG as DS9 is to B5.

So another issue with Voyager I had was how ONE person could disable the entire ship AND get away with it. You'd think after the numerous times that one person has disabled the entire ship and fled, Tuvok would up the security of the entire ship or post more guards at the transporter room or something. Or even separate the controls of various systems so they can never be compromised. I absolutely hated that a single person could just access some control console or whatever and cripple the entire ship almost. Voyager was designed in a sort of militaristic fashion and was supposed to be a deep space vehicle?, right? So why does it have such lax internal security and such glaring vulnerabilities?

That issue along with Harry's incompetence, holodeck malfunctions, some character's sudden holodeck obsession episodes, and a whole lot of other things point to a more general problem I had with the show. These people never learn! What the hell! Why do they always keep having the same issue over and over?! You'd think that, with them being stranded in another part of the galaxy completely cut off from Starfleet and things familiar to them, there would be a steep learning curve for them to overcome and force them to compensate and learn stuff. But they never do! Keep having the same issues all the time. You'd think that without the security blanket they had in the Alpha quadrant, that they'd evolve and try to compensate for their shortcomings, but they don't.

They didn't do anything new. With TOS, it was new and sort of the first of its kind on tv. So there would be lots of ground for them to cover. Then with TNG, almost 40 yrs have passed and scientific advances allowed them to open up a whole new arena of sci-fi content. But with Voyager, the span was shorter but there was still what, 45-50 years of scientific advances and knowledge that they could still draw from instead of revisiting the same things that TNG visited. There's still a lot of content in that 45-50 year period that TNG might not have covered.

I mean, I could think of plenty of examples off the top of my head. One of them is RTL systems, Real Time Logic systems. Train stations and Nasa employ them all the time. When they have to land something in Mars or elsewhere, it's not like they can send commands in real time cause of the time it takes to send commands. They have to embed some real time logic systems in the vehicle so that it can do those things by themselves. Voyager doesn't seem to have such capabilities. Think about it, they obviously have FTL means of communication between systems and in their computing systems. So, when some enemy fires at them, Janeway should never have to wait until they're fired upon to tell Tuvok to raise the shields. The computers should be able to pick up on the incoming bullet/firing whatever and anticipate the need to raise the shields automatically.

There are even more applications of this that they could employ. For example, they could have a varying shield generating device to save power and concentrate the shields even more. I mean, Voyager obviously outputs some sort of shield with some shield generators. If they can anticipate shots directed at them with RTL systems, the computers should be able to calculate where to concentrate their shield to better absorb the blows. This would drastically reduce the power usage of the shields. Basically they could discretize the shield, break it up, to deal with things better instead of a uniform shielding that gets impacted on as a whole.

Another thing that they could have developed are scout probes. Probes that are able to function independently for the most part and scout ahead of Voyager. If one of the probes happen to stop communicating with Voyager, then they'll know something is wrong and would be better able to deal with encounters. They obviously have the resources to build shit like this since they have that stupid Delta Flyer and are constantly able to rebuild parts of the ship after the heavy damage that they sustain.

They could even build some little weapon/defense probes that constantly circle Voyager to draw fire or even take hits so that Voyager doesn't get hit. There's so many things they could have done. Obviously their shuttles have weapon capabilities, they could have even those things just circling around Voyager for an extra layer of security. Hell, they could even be remotely operated by people or something.

Of course, there's the whole possibility of a holodeck crew that could also be a possibility that's not too far-fetched of an idea, I mean they even had some pretty competent photon beings in that one episode which devolved into the main guy becoming a cartoon villain really quick.

Those are just a few things off the top of my head. The show had the resources to hire some engineering adviser, or science adviser, essentially people with much higher level technical knowledge than me who could have given even more ideas. They could have really upped the sci-fi content, but instead their tech doesn't really evolve that much from TNG, just very superficial touches here and there with fancier names. Intrepid class, I guess I'm suppose to ooooh aaaah at that, whatever.
 
Top