Star Trek VOY: General Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

Just as an FYI Mzzz, Voyager begins only a few years after the TV ending of TNG.

 

[YJ02]

Ok so I finished Voyager finally. I feel I have the right to bitch about it. If you liked the show, that's fine, don't have to read this. I might curse a lot. All my opinion of course.

What a dull, mediocre show. It's not like a show you just hate right from the start and then drop. It's more right down in the middle to the point of being so mediocre that it's worse than hating it from the start and dropping it. You keep watching, hoping the show will grow a pair of fucking balls. But no. Almost all of the characters are the most boring, dull people in Trek that I've seen so far.

The reset button was so annoying. It's so obviously there and does absolutely nothing but hamper on potentially good sci-fi. Any thought-provoking and/or potentially good episode is hampered by the continuous episode design of the reset button. They always structure the episodes in a way so that they can implement that. This really takes away any sense of accomplishment or achievement in Voyager, it's like nothing happened. Now about the characters.

Neelix was useless. His roles were useless. They could have had him be more knowledgeable about the Delta quadrant, but anyone with a half a brain is good enough to deal with the Delta quadrant. Their attempts at elevating his role were just sad and pathetic. Tuvok was allright, he was mostly just there, they shouldn't have delved into his Vulcan sex thing and tried to make it all serious and whatnot. Was just stupid. Don't get why they were trying to sell us this Neelix-Tuvok bromance thing or whatever the fuck they wanna call it.

Chakotay is nothing more than a cardboard character that is just there as wallpaper and nothing more. He has his Indian or whatever ancestry and his yo cootchie maya. Yo cootchie gofuckyourself. He lets Janeway walk all over him. Anytime he opposes her, Janeway castrates him on the spot or somewhere down the line. She just shoots him down everytime and almost always turns out to be right, which I contribute to preservation of all things Janeway.

Tom is the dullest of them all. How could you be so fucking boring? Your nostalgia for the past involves a 300-400 yr time period in Earth's history? That's all you fucking care about? Goddamnit, you fucking boring punkass. I hated that he hooked up with Belanna. The reason is cause this made Belanna a weaker character to me. Almost all of the episodes involving the two of them revolve around her acquiescing to Tom's fucking stupidass fetish of the past. Why couldn't you be interested in the Greeks? Or Norse? You fucking assturd, ruined the Holodeck with all your mediocre shit like that stupid Irish village. Got sick of his 'past' fetish and daddy's little girl routine.

Harry is such an incompetent dumbass. I've lost count of how many times he couldn't get a lock. You should be fucking studying the technical manual and everything about the transporters so you never have to say the words "there's too much interference". Go fucking open a book or something, you incompetent boob. By the end of the show, you should have had a fucking Nobel prize for your knowledge of the transporter system. Harry did more chicks than the supposed "playboy" of the crew, Tom. Almost all of his episodes revolve around him falling hard for some fucking chick. Go fucking study, you dumbass. Stop being Tom's beyatch. Tom apparently has time to fucking be a pilot, indulge his douchebag fetish, assist the Doctor, and be a husband. What the fuck are you doing? Maybe that's why you've never been promoted, but we know that's the producers and whatnot. And there's apparently some sex code in the prime directive, whatever Voyager, whatever.

My problem with Belanna was that she tried to be a character that was more than her Klignon genes, but almost all of her episodes revolved around her Klignon-ness. I wish there was something more to her than that. Also, the whole Stepford wife to Tom and his fucking bullshit. Oh Tom, please let me be a part of your bullshit fetish so that you pay attention to me. Fuck Tom.

Seven had lots of potential, that I felt was squandered by an overindulgence of Seven stories. Her and the Doctor pretty much owned the show with their stories. But I hated that she so willingly gave in to Janeway shoving humanity down her throat. Also hate that she's supposed to be all that in the intelligence department, but can't grasp basic social skills and set up more Borg enhancements that would have been beneficial to Voyager. And let's face it, she was basically a sex object. If you honestly do deny this, I just do not value your opinion at all. Her catsuit is not something that's "efficient" which seems to be among her defining characteristics. She should have realized that better social interactions allows her to perform more efficiently in conjunction with the rest of the crew. Her Chakotay lovestory was pretty bullshit, and the writers seemed to have pulled it out of their ass. And apparently she also succumbs to Holodeck obsession.

The Doctor, I liked for the most part. However, I absolutely hated that Voyager seems to have elevated all holodeck/photon beings to sentient beings capable of functioning like a human. I hated that he was a hologram. I mean, I would have liked it if they really delved into how he got sentience. What was the line he crossed to attaining a sense of being more than a hologram? But apparently all hologram people become sentient if you leave it on long enough or some bullshit. They could have made some hard sci-fi ventures here with the Doctor, but they gave him sentience right away. He had more humanness than the entire main cast. He apparently grasps an appreciate of abstract concepts such as art and music just by downloading some "subroutines", whatever the fuck they are. I wish they truly explored the science portion of this instead of the psychological route they went with instead, namely the people around him viewing him as a person. This guy had a massive ego for fuck's sake. That's extremely human. But how the fuck did he even attain such a thing?

Also, the doctor is a photonic being. Wish they shared how such beings work. I mean, he sees like a normal person or something? His eyes do the seeing? Or does he have sensors that just picks up on everything around him regardless of where his eyes are positioned on his photonic head. Instead of all the bullshit opera and other crap, why didn't he give himself multiple arms, or multiple eyes so he can see in every direction? He could never be surprised. He could attend multiple injuries at once by having detached arms or some shit. I have NO fucking idea why they didn't make clones of him. There should be multiple versions of him. And DON'T even say that there isn't enough space. The doctor could go around with a fucking mobile emitter and transfer his essence into that. When he goes on away missions, all of his essence is in that fucking contrived piece of shit. That means there's freed up space for another one of his essence on Voyager. So there could be two of him at all times. But no. He has to be a unique little snowflake. Fucking bullshit. Wish they actually explored the science-y elements of his existence and his potential to be more than just confined to some human form. They really should have explored the holodeck and photonic whatever potential. Would have made for much more interesting stories.

Janeway is meh. She tries to be all holier than thou, but I attribute that to all of the stories structured around preserving her sanctimonious, self-righteous decisions as the correct decisions. Hated that 'writer protection' that she got. All of her decisions were the right ones. And anytime there were story elements questioning her decisions in the respective present or the past, they raise valid questions and potentially good characterizations. But no, they quickly make the source of that objections to her character and choices become a cartoon villain. They quickly dismiss them as 'monster of the week'. And the questions raised dies with them. All of this, structured around preserving the status quo and usage of the almighty reset button. Her not violating Prime Directive is complete horseshit. Endgame is her prime example.

I hated how stupid this show was. Hated the time travel bullshit and the whole timecops thing. They introduce this Starfleet Time whatever. But then they have all of those fucking time travel episodes. Where the fuck were they then? That fucking Harry episode where he reset events in the past by sending that message, that species erasing other species with their bullshit outside of time vessel, and Endgame; where the fuck were they then? They completely ruined time travel stories by making them completely idiotic and moronic.

They also ruined Holodecks. Almost all of the Holodeck shit involved either one character lets holodeck time interfere with their work and lives, holodeck lounge place, and/or holodeck malfunctioning in the middle of some fucking program. At least, TNG's holodeck episodes were relatively fun and were good adventures. They went and did mysteries, explored the past, and whatnot. In Voyager, they went and did absolutely NOTHING in there. No exciting adventure whatsoever. Also, fuck Tom and all of his hologram shit. They essentially made holodeck adventures like how the show made star trek and deep space adventuring, they made it mediocre and dull.

Another thing that bothered me was the way they constantly had to resort to the previous show villains and races for most of their episodes. The Borg? I mean, ok fine, they had some interesting ideas. But the execution (Borg children, dreamshare bullshit, etc.) left a bad taste. They could have really bold and explored the Borg in a way like never before, such as the origins of the Borg, or some other stuff. But instead, their sci-fi stories with the Borg are just so dull. I would often roll my eyes at the Borg stories. They could have delved into heavy sci-fi concepts but resolved themselves to humanizing Borgs and often in the form of children or something. Fuck the Borg.

They never made bold strides towards high concept sci-fi, like with the Borg. They constantly ground their stories to revolve around human affairs somehow. I mean, another example is the Q. They could have explored the Q in a very sci-fi manner or even historical manner. But instead, we get the Q pms'ing about their existence or some shit. What spoiled potential.

Ultimately though, I can't really blame the characters or the other stuff because it ultimately rests on the creators and producers. They seem to favour mediocrity and extreme blandness. They should have grown a pair of balls. They could have had some really good sci-fi concepts and whatnot living in this day and age. But they constantly dumbed down the stories with ridiculous levels of technobabble, grounded mundane characterizations, and structuring their stories around the reset button. The technobabble was sort of a byproduct of them being overly liberal with Murphy's Law. Sometimes, people who try too hard at something are usually overcompensating for a lacking in that something, like Voyager does often with their sci part of the sci-fi.

Say what you will about TNG but their characters are larger than life and people that viewers can sort of look up to in a way. People were inspired by Geordi to become an engineer or Spock to do science, etc. Those characters are memorable and likable. To me, the characters in Voyager are completely forgettable and less than a shadow than most of the characters in the previous Treks. The creators really botched this one by dumbing it down by having characters that are themselves average; they should have been more bold and should have been the vanguard of sci-fi (especially Trek) with bold sci-fi concepts, deep philosophical questions, etc. They shouldn't have dumbed things down and instead should have challenged the viewers to expand their horizons rather than coddling them with dumbed down concepts and sci-fi exploration.

I think this series was the beginning of the dumbing down of Trek for mass appeal and may have led to the Trek we have now, stupid and dumb downed for mass appeal. I bet JJ liked Voyager.

Fuck Voyager.

That's all for now. If you honestly read all that, I don't know what to say, haha.

mzz,you shouldn't hold back and edit yourself so much!

 

[mzzz]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/...ting-idea-that-sun-revolves-around-earth/?wtf

 

[mzzz]

Funny pics:

Best thing to come out of Voyager:

 

[Overmind One]

I have been re-watching this series continuously for a couple of years. I usually watch an episode along with something else (sometimes Babylon 5). It occurred to me that I never comment on individual episodes. Some of the 2016 discussions which have come since Star Wars VII was released, and the upcoming dreaded Star Trek Beyond have made me more observant for "magic" or otherwise fantasy items which have snuck into it. Still, a Trek explanation of something fantastical seems more logical (how illogical is that? )

 

[Tripler]

I've watched it on and off . Innitially I did not watch the first live run as I found the characters friggin weak and annoying and predictable . But in reruns I actually liked the show . Not all the eps but enough to have me go back for a second look .

 

[YJ02]

Trek explanation of something fantastical seems more logical (how illogical is that?

it is a totally understandable facet of human behaviour

i admit to it for some of my fav's; B5, nu BSG, DS9, ---that "there is no way anything that silly happened in that show"

it a thing similar to allowing one's perceptions of a favored show or thing/person and the effects of our perceptions-even through memory ( what we think we remember happened or did not happen on screen)-to influence our interpretation or acceptance of reality-(what actual did happen on screen)

so, if we get into an argument about a certain show

i say-"so and so, did such and such that was so out of character and not in style with that show"

you say "that never happened, you are confusing it with another show"

we do a re-watch, I prove to be right or even more interestingly, partly right while you are partly wrong (glass half full/empty)-both of our perceptions via memory are shown to be incorrect

so, when you say (yes I know you are joking) "how illogical is that?" it is a way to show that even though something may be very "Corny" or out of character for the show--like say Tuvok dancing-- there is a justification for it and it is acceptable because of the over all favorabilty of the show in your (and mine btw) memory

we ALL do it. if anything, we all display it here in many of the threads at GF's

 

[Rac80]

FYI in 1998 we bought a plymouth voyager (yes a mini van ) and I named her Janeway but dang the vanity plate that said Janeway was already spoken for

 

[Overmind One]

FYI in 1998 we bought a plymouth voyager (yes a mini van ) and I named her Janeway but dang the vanity plate that said Janeway was already spoken for

Janeway is probably my favorite starship Captain of them all. She is the most well balanced, and she is BADASS. I still remember a dream I had where Janeway was somehow on the 1701-D in Ten Forward drinking Romulan Ale with Picard. Guinan was at the table with the bottle, and she got up from the table and Janeway grabbed the bottle playfully and says "this stays!". After Guinan leaves, Picard says to her that it "must be that Irish blood". Janeway recoils, and tells Picard that his weakness from French blood must be the reason he was assimilated by the Borg. Picard calls her something in Klingon, and she slaps Picard and they start to scrap right there in Ten Forward. tables get knocked over, they shove each other and throw some punches, then Janeway somehow gets Picard in a headlock and starts banging his head on the floor. Worf has to pull them apart and Janeway's hair is all messed up...I can remember it clear as day!

What happened to that Plymoth Voyager, Rac???? I hope it destroyed some Borg and fought off Kazon.

 

[YJ02]

rewatching voy on amazon

i have the CC on,, whats funny is that when the Doctor speaks the CC id's the character as Dr Zimmerman--his creator, yes?.

its not every episode, but most

i wonder who screwed that up?

 

[YJ02]

Can there be any more visually bizarre story arc in ST then the Vidiian's?

some 'silence of the lambs" type stuff there with poor Lt Durant in the FACES ep...

Anyhow,,hypothetical

If the Borg encountered the Vidiians in there infected state, would they be assimilated?

Do you think Borg tech--as a collection of so many assimilated tech's--could cure the phage pre-assimilation?

 

[Joelist]

Dunno. The Borg may consider the Phage issue sufficient to decline to assimilate.

Of course, we know from a later episode that the Borg considered the Kazon unworthy of assimilation.

 

[YJ02]

Dunno. The Borg may consider the Phage issue sufficient to decline to assimilate.

Of course, we know from a later episode that the Borg considered the Kazon unworthy of assimilation.

is there anything in canon or even fan fiction where it is explained as to why some species were considered unworthy?

 

[Lord Ba'al]

is there anything in canon or even fan fiction where it is explained as to why some species were considered unworthy?

Borg strive for perfection by means of a combination of biology and technology. If you were Borg, would you really want Kazon?

 

[YJ02]

Borg strive for perfection by means of a combination of biology and technology. If you were Borg, would you really want Kazon?

not unless a new war was going to start that would require a lot of Borg "red shirts"--make them all kazon--good spear catchers

 

[Rac80]

Janeway is probably my favorite starship Captain of them all. She is the most well balances, and she is BADASS. I still remember a dream I had where Janeway was somehow on the 1701-D in Ten Forward drinking Romulan Ale with Picard. Guinan was at the table with the bottle, and she got up from the table and Janeway grabbed the bottle playfully and says "this stays!". After Guinan leaves, Picard says to her that it "must be that Irish blood". Janeway recoils, and tells Picard that his weakness from French blood must be the reason he was assimilated by the Borg. Picard calls her something in Klingon, and she slaps Picard and they start to scrap right there in Ten Forward. tables get knocked over, they shove each other and throw some punches, then Janeway somehow gets Picard in a headlock and starts banging his head on the floor. Worf has to pull them apart and Janeway's hair is all messed up...I can remember it clear as day!

What happened to that Plymoth Voyager, Rac???? I hope it destroyed some Borg and fought off Kazon.

LMAO it's still running and keeping me out of trouble mostly. has gotten me out of several "sticky" situations

 

[Joelist]

Janeway is probably my favorite starship Captain of them all. She is the most well balances, and she is BADASS. I still remember a dream I had where Janeway was somehow on the 1701-D in Ten Forward drinking Romulan Ale with Picard. Guinan was at the table with the bottle, and she got up from the table and Janeway grabbed the bottle playfully and says "this stays!". After Guinan leaves, Picard says to her that it "must be that Irish blood". Janeway recoils, and tells Picard that his weakness from French blood must be the reason he was assimilated by the Borg. Picard calls her something in Klingon, and she slaps Picard and they start to scrap right there in Ten Forward. tables get knocked over, they shove each other and throw some punches, then Janeway somehow gets Picard in a headlock and starts banging his head on the floor. Worf has to pull them apart and Janeway's hair is all messed up...I can remember it clear as day!

What happened to that Plymoth Voyager, Rac???? I hope it destroyed some Borg and fought off Kazon.

I'm a Janeway fan also. Well written character and Kate Mulgrew played her perfectly.

 

[YJ02]

I'm a Janeway fan also. Well written character and Kate Mulgrew played her perfectly.

everyone else--with the sometimes exception of The Dr, is so "vanilla" and uninteresting, aren't they?

again,cast this way on purpose so as not to detract the authority of the CPT?

<<<<<this week i have been linking to a lot of ST VOY info. seems that the part of the CPT is the only part that the TPTB's were ever interested in getting an actress of note to play, Nearly all of the candidates were women of acting "weight" and stature of note-even if from niche areas>>>>

from Memory Alpha: Patty Duke? really?


"Numerous actresses have claimed that they were or have been reported in the media as having been considered for the role of Janeway, most notably Susan Gibney (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, p. 299), and veteran science fiction television actress Erin Gray. Others considered include Patty Duke, Nicola Bryant (citation needed • edit), Karen Austin,Joanna Cassidy, Lindsay Crouse, Linda Hamilton, Chelsea Field, Kate Jackson, Carolyn McCormick (citation needed • edit),Patsy Kensit, Tracy Scoggins, Helen Shaver, and Lindsay Wagner. At an early time of pre-production when it was unclear that Janeway was to be a woman, actors Gary Graham and Rene Rivera also auditioned for the role.

Eventually, French-Canadian actress Genevieve Bujold was cast in the role of Elizabeth Janeway. Following this selection, the character was described in an early press release (dated 2 September 1994), which referred to Janeway as "a Human female [who] leads the combined teams of Starfleet and Maquis personnel. She is not the only female Captain in Starfleet, however, her intelligence, thoughtfulness, dedication and diplomacy have earned her respect and recognition as one of the best Starfleet Captains – male or female." [1] Due to legal aspects (specifically, that a prominent person, an actual American feminist writer, named Elizabeth Janeway existed), the name had to be changed. At Bujold's request, the character was renamed "Nicole Janeway"."

THE ORIGINAL CPT Janeway as casted-Bujold a noted actress from the 50's and 60's-

 

[YJ02]

LMAO it's still running and keeping me out of trouble mostly. has gotten me out of several "sticky" situations

Cpt Janeway--fellow Indianan

 

[Joelist]

We've actually spoken of it elsewhere - Voyager avoided a disaster when Bujold left. She was utterly wrong for the part.