Sons Of Anarchy

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I think it's more where it is coming from. If you think about it, Bones, L&O, Castle, NCIS etc, etc, etc are all shows about murder, So was Dexter, but the perspective is coming from the other side of the fence.
The Shield comes from the place of the Cops, (no matter how corrupt or whatever), SOA comes from the place of the Bikers, even if similar things may happen.

I think that is it! So, this dislike I have for this show might come from remembering when my dad would come home and tell me about the various criminals he would have to deal with (he was a career cop). I was raised by a cop who hated criminals and perps and those types would be discussed all the time at my house. Bikers were considered criminals and outlaws by cops (and they still are), and cops profilie biker clubs/gangs. I think back then, it was because both the bikers and the cops were riding Harleys and perhaps the cops saw them as a huge threat like they do today because citizens have the same sidearm they have (a 9mm). They also hate fast cars and radar detectors...all because these things present threats to their effectiveness.

This is just a theory, but perhaps that is the reason? Something subconscious?
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
It's as good a theory as any other, and would sit in line with your previously stated dislike of "play fighting" due to exposure to it in the Armed Services?

Of course, you could just be a pussy............... :lol:
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
I think that is it! So, this dislike I have for this show might come from remembering when my dad would come home and tell me about the various criminals he would have to deal with (he was a career cop). I was raised by a cop who hated criminals and perps and those types would be discussed all the time at my house. Bikers were considered criminals and outlaws by cops (and they still are), and cops profilie biker clubs/gangs. I think back then, it was because both the bikers and the cops were riding Harleys and perhaps the cops saw them as a huge threat like they do today because citizens have the same sidearm they have (a 9mm). They also hate fast cars and radar detectors...all because these things present threats to their effectiveness.

This is just a theory, but perhaps that is the reason? Something subconscious?

Sure. Why not? :icon_lol:
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
It's as good a theory as any other, and would sit in line with your previously stated dislike of "play fighting" due to exposure to it in the Armed Services?

Of course, you could just be a pussy............... :lol:

Well, that is much different. Military conditioning kicks in without thinking. It is very very dangerous to wake a sleeping veteran without warning, to play scare pranks (like jumping out of a bush or from behind a door), and especially "play fighting". You could get seriously hurt unintentionally. In boot camp, you wear heavily padded gear to prevent injury, but pugil fighting and hand to hand combat training will do that to you. I bet there is still programming left in Yong too from years ago. It never quite leaves you. :)

I dont think many people would consider me a "pussy". :) Im no wimp. ;)
 
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YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Bluce--ARE YOU SURE you watched THE SHIELD? :icon_lol:

Mackey and the strike team's bad shit-though major and the issues always over their heads and therefore a predictor of their failure- were actually not all they did. First ep--missing little girl-Dutch and the others can't get the ice cold Dr suspect to give up anything. They know that he is the one who has her stashed, and they know they need to find her quickly. They resort to asking Vic for help.

Remember that scene? Mackey comes in with a brown paper bag starts putting the contents on the table-like a big assed phone book- the suspect is not moved......suspect" So your'e the bad cop?" Mackey "No, good cop and bad cop left for the day=I am a different kind of cop" Smacks him with the phone book, guy gives up the address for the little girl quick

My point between SHIELD and SOA is that Mackey and his strike team did far more good, quantity wise-though most of it was small and routine, then they did bad, quantity wise

The show had a balance, showed that though Mackey and his team were in fact corrupt, they were also shown doing good, everyday cop stuff. The team was balanced out; Mackey the sociopathetic alpha male. Lem was their conscious, Shane was a man twisted between his loyalty to Mackey and his greed-he could care less for actual legit police work, and Gardocki was, IMO (mainly cause we got little else on him) motivated by money as well. Mackey, though corrupt and criminal is clearly shown to have a singular purpose for the money he takes= it is for his family. He doesn't want a big house and real estate spec (ala Gilroy), he doesn't want a exp. car-he knows his cops salary is not enough-esp with 2 autistic kids-he never shows any motivation for personal greed-like Shane does. And Lem didn't want shit to do with any money. His surfer dude attitude and carefree lifestyle-morphed by his worry to bleeding ulcers is the moral compass-remember when he burned the money? Awesome...

In SOA, there is no such balance. It is all greed. There are no "anarchists" just men who want to be normed into a group run by a autocratic dictator. They are social deviants, men without "proper" upbringing. probably with attachment issues and many others issues. There are no moralists in the group-perhaps Jax and Juice come close but they are still far from the likes of a Curtis Lemansky. (and what is it with TPTBs wanting to blow up Ken Johnson all the time? :anim_59:)

The Sons do no good-if any is done, it is a by product of their actions or done for other motives. Yeah I get they are supposed to be bad dudes and that is fine, the show doesn't have a character who is their counter (SHIELD had Acevada, Claudette, Dutch, and Kavanuagh as "moralistic opposition" to balance and put in check the BS that Mackey was doing.

Any such character in Sons is borderline comical (the ATF chic) in their acting or too short lived in their appearance and chances to effect the Sons-like AUSA Lincoln wtf last name.

Shawn Ryan was the main TPTB behind SHIELD, Sutter was a less important player in it. Perhaps it is the lack of Ryan in SOA that also causes the lack of what I am trying to describe

Sutter's character in SOA is probably one of the better acted ones. Like the Unser and Bobby character as well-but with all of them it is more of the "bad people doing good/trying to do good things". Like we are put to task to give some kind of forgiveness to them, to grant them penance and say "great show, did see how he tried to put things right, etc,etc"

THE SHIELD gave you someone to "root for", for me it was Mackey-I wanted to see him stopped but still not get put away or killed. The only "non dirty" characters that would fit this would be Claudette and Julien Lowe. In SOA, just who in the hell are you supposed to want to see win? Who are we supposed to be pulling for? Unser? Chucky? The town of Charming?

The the social issues that I have mashed up with everything else; I understand that these types of ppl are very fringe and in a minority. I see no value in having a show in which they are the main characters--"No redeeming social value" was a favorite line of tv censors and standards and practices ppl of the past

Maybe some better more refined/useful/"this is not the life to live" theme will come out by the end of the series--so far, and considering the minds of much out there watching it-it shows far too much how to make easy money and get hot chics info then anything else. By the way, Is this show still on?

But hey, gotta give me some credit for still watching, no? :chuncky:
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Well, that is much different. Military conditioning kicks in without thinking. It is very very dangerous to wake a sleeping veteran without warning, to play scare pranks (like jumping out of a bush or from behind a door), and especially "play fighting". You could get seriously hurt unintentionally. In boot camp, you wear heavily padded gear to prevent injury, but pugil fighting and hand to hand combat training will do that to you. I bet there is still programming left in Yong too from years ago. It never quite leaves you. :)

I dont think many people would consider me a "pussy". :) Im no wimp. ;)

I would agree with you on this, especially more so with any Marine given their wanting to train as Infantry everyone in the Corp, and just the plain intensity of everyday Marine life (hell, the still make marines sign out on pass after work in Hawaii because the Corp considers it an "overseas assignment"--their gig, let them do it as they will)

But yeah, I tend to stay "situationally aware" of things. It is not PTSD level stuff but more common sense and be cognizant of your surroundings (imo, not enough Americans do any of that); given the choice, I like to sit in the corner of large rooms at the furthest distance from the entrance. I stay a good distance behind traffic in front of me and if someone gets to close to the back of my car, I'll either pull over or slow so they can pass me.

Biggest pain in the ass thing was sitting to eat and constantly waving my left hand to and fro over my plate; a habit I picked up from Saudi, constantly keeping the flies from my food, took yrs to stop doing it.

And this may seem quite, quite strange, but I still cannot use toilet paper after "my business" while standing; I remain seated and use it that way. I have totally adapted to doing this in that way. Reason? In Saudi, our field shitters were built by 3rd country nationals out of plywood and wired mesh (windows for ventilation/light). The front of the latrine was made from a full sheet of plywood on edge-so 4 ft high, then topped by the wire mesh and ply sides and roof. If one stood up to wipe, their entire naked front was exposed to any in the perimeter to see.

Weird stuff has a way of sticking with ya'

But yeah, you don't "f" around with someone who is 1-combat trained and a combat MOS or 2- a frazzeled combat vet

Which, by the way, "Half Sack" in SOA? Do not see any way in hell this guy passed the ASVAB test to get in the Army. More hollywood bs of "everyone on the mili is dumb" shit. Don't see any motivation for why a guy like him-the Army vet, disabled-would join a group of scumbags like SAMCRO either. Losing a nut is a big up front pay out along with a monthly disability check, free health care and VA education beni's. A guy would be a total freaking loser to go from the Army (of today) to a gang. The others (Piney, Clay, John Teller) were vietnam vets; draftees, men forced to serve-a total different "animal" from today's military.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Bluce--ARE YOU SURE you watched THE SHIELD? :icon_lol:

Mackey and the strike team's bad shit-though major and the issues always over their heads and therefore a predictor of their failure- were actually not all they did. First ep--missing little girl-Dutch and the others can't get the ice cold Dr suspect to give up anything. They know that he is the one who has her stashed, and they know they need to find her quickly. They resort to asking Vic for help.

Remember that scene? Mackey comes in with a brown paper bag starts putting the contents on the table-like a big assed phone book- the suspect is not moved......suspect" So your'e the bad cop?" Mackey "No, good cop and bad cop left for the day=I am a different kind of cop" Smacks him with the phone book, guy gives up the address for the little girl quick

My point between SHIELD and SOA is that Mackey and his strike team did far more good, quantity wise-though most of it was small and routine, then they did bad, quantity wise
...

Ignoring the fact for a moment that the Strike Team are COPS and SAMCRO are a criminal organization, keep watching. You'll see some of that selflessness in SOA as well. For instance, there was an episode last season involving child porn. Jax took the situation in hand and it was not self-serving.

The subject matter is identical in both shows, just different storylines and protagonists. Not sure why you keep reaching for that straw but it's not holding. Don't take my word for it, though, since it seems you're bent on overlooking the very comparisons you keep making that only serve to show they're the same. Read the tons of reviews comparing both shows.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Ignoring the fact for a moment that the Strike Team are COPS and SAMCRO are a criminal organization, keep watching. You'll see some of that selflessness in SOA as well. For instance, there was an episode last season involving child porn. Jax took the situation in hand and it was not self-serving.

The subject matter is identical in both shows, just different storylines and protagonists. Not sure why you keep reaching for that straw but it's not holding. Don't take my word for it, though, since it seems you're bent on overlooking the very comparisons you keep making that only serve to show they're the same. Read the tons of reviews comparing both shows.

With your defense of SOA, I am hearing a lot of familiar language--used by me in my defense of nuBSG "forever" ago

That's cool though, we all like what we like, wouldn't want it any other way :D
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Ignoring the fact for a moment that the Strike Team are COPS and SAMCRO are a criminal organization, keep watching. You'll see some of that selflessness in SOA as well. For instance, there was an episode last season involving child porn. Jax took the situation in hand and it was not self-serving.

The subject matter is identical in both shows, just different storylines and protagonists. Not sure why you keep reaching for that straw but it's not holding. Don't take my word for it, though, since it seems you're bent on overlooking the very comparisons you keep making that only serve to show they're the same. Read the tons of reviews comparing both shows.

Just watched this ep (Venus Van Damme is awesome-a "play" to Cletus Van Damme in the SHIELD) Jax may have done the overt action we see for some good reason, however, the scene where Venus' mother is berating him in the kiddie porn studio about how he/she is going to raise the kid, how the kid will hate her/him for what he is (a tranny), all the explanations of lifestyle, etc-that is just a device to further expose-to the viewer-Jax's doubt of what his own son's future will hold and their opinion of him. Venus's Mom was saying a lot of what Jax is writing in his journal, she is just using different words.

Jax shot her out of self loathing as much as hatred for what she did as a child pornographer and as an instigator of "Oedipus-ism" when Venus was young.
 

OMNI

My avatar speaks for itself.
It's as good a theory as any other, and would sit in line with your previously stated dislike of "play fighting" due to exposure to it in the Armed Services?

Of course, you could just be a pussy............... :lol:
LOL!
 

OMNI

My avatar speaks for itself.
Just watched this ep (Venus Van Damme is awesome-a "play" to Cletus Van Damme in the SHIELD) Jax may have done the overt action we see for some good reason, however, the scene where Venus' mother is berating him in the kiddie porn studio about how he/she is going to raise the kid, how the kid will hate her/him for what he is (a tranny), all the explanations of lifestyle, etc-that is just a device to further expose-to the viewer-Jax's doubt of what his own son's future will hold and their opinion of him. Venus's Mom was saying a lot of what Jax is writing in his journal, she is just using different words.

Jax shot her out of self loathing as much as hatred for what she did as a child pornographer and as an instigator of "Oedipus-ism" when Venus was young.
one of my favorite scenes this season.

BTW you are blabbering out important scenes all over the Place without regard for spoilers SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER IS USING SPOILER TAGS!
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Finished up season 6. Probably the best season. Interested to see how Jax will get himself out of the sit. he is in at the end....

Wish someone would just pop Gemma already...she is a serious pain in the ass
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Anyone watch the season premiere?

i think it was a pretty predictable ep

jax gets out of jail (we knew he would), mom manipulates jax, jax kills someone

i hope this season-being the last-gets better

It is supposed to be sons of anarchy, not boys of banality
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
I didn't like the premiere. This episode was one scraped from the bottom of the barrel. I especially thought Gemma framing the Chinese was too contrived, too simple and too convenient. There are better ways to start a massive all out war plot than the way Sutter went about it in this ep.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
I didn't like the premiere. This episode was one scraped from the bottom of the barrel. I especially thought Gemma framing the Chinese was too contrived, too simple and too convenient. There are better ways to start a massive all out war plot than the way Sutter went about it in this ep.


I am hoping the show "burns out" and doesn't just fade away--despite my issues with the premise and all it is still a pretty well made show-at least up till now
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
I am hoping the show "burns out" and doesn't just fade away--despite my issues with the premise and all it is still a pretty well made show-at least up till now

Sutter may go the same route as the Shield finale, leaving Jax alone having lost everything.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
So I am thinking that with Wendy (is that her name?)--now that we have seen she knows about current activity from riding with Senor Gemma, and knowing that she can't go back to work for over a yr. That she will either get snuffed out here real soon, or, she will somehow take over Gemma's spot. Just seemed odd with all the screen time and dialogue she had this ep-setting her up for something

(It did happen in the Shield with otherwise "heldback" women--Danny got re-instated and promoted and Mrs Super detective got promoted to CPT--just saying, keeping with your though on Sutter's modus from the Shield)

---------------
Def. going to be a "civil war" with the Nevada charter being set up and Jax messing up bringing that shotgun,etc

Yeah-I am pretty sure a lot of ppl are going to die--and I think that Juice is going to involve Chibbs in the whole Gemma killed Tara issue--maybe it will put Chibbs into conflict with Tig (since Tig had/has a thing for Gemma)

Anyway it goes, just hope its interesting
 
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