Is it just me, or does Ascension sound like another bout of Soap-Fi?

[Joelist]

Hey Youngjin!

Remember we actually have three camps in here on NuBSG:

Camp 1: Liked the entire show

Camp 2: Liked S1 and S2 (mostly) but feel the show jumped the shark in S3 and later and degenerated into dreck

Camp 3: Disliked the entire show

Me, I am in Camp 2 actually. S1 was pretty strong as was the first half of S2. The second half of S2 it started to run off the rails and starting in S3 it rapidly turned into soapy dreck.

 

[Gate_Boarder]

hey all you BSG haters !

careful, if I remember correctly, with our new members, Gate boarder and I now have a little more "beef" on our side of the field (that is BSG haters vs BSG fans)

just observin'

Throw my name into this quagmire - TY. Oh, crap, I should of saved all the commentary on the final 2 eps.

I'm slightly thick headed! Who/ whom am I supposed to root for. Whatever side I am on if we throw in some of the recruits we will have an army of 3.

 

[Annoyed]

I like TOS and NuBSG about equally. I've been a fan of TOS since it's first airing in Sept. 1978. I should note that I was an adult at that time, it wasn't something I watched as a kid. I also like NuBSG. Each series has its good and bad points. TOS was severely hamstrung by its network in the budget dept., and it shows in many ways. But it was a damned good show for the era it aired in.
NuBSG was better supported by its host network, and was far more active in examining contemporary issues of its day. Yes, there were some things I found tough to swallow (Adama ceding even partial control to the head of the civilian dept. of education during an emergency) but overall, it was well done. They did alot of things in NuBSG that they couldn't have done in 1978. The ending could have been better, but that's what happens when a writers' strike screws your show up.
NuBSG didn't go off the rails until part 2 of season 4. Remember, when part 1 of Season 4 was written, they didn't know if they would get part 2. So they wrote in such a way they could end it after S4A if they had to. in my opinion, the resulting season 4B went off the tracks because of this.

If I had to pick one or the other for the source for a new movie/tv series I would pick the TOS version, as it would be more interesting to see what they encounter in their trek across the stars, rather than continual examination of humanity's flaws.

 

[Overmind One]

I like TOS and NuBSG about equally. I've been a fan of TOS since it's first airing in Sept. 1978. I should note that I was an adult at that time, it wasn't something I watched as a kid. I also like NuBSG. Each series has its good and bad points. TOS was severely hamstrung by its network in the budget dept., and it shows in many ways. But it was a damned good show for the era it aired in.

I liked BSG TOS because it was like Star Wars. Everything about it was lighthearted and done in the style of Star Wars. Starbuck was like a cross between Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. It had hot women in it, fast ships and dumb Cylons who were easy to identify. They were the ultimate redshirts. Loved it. Liked NuBSG for 1.5 seasons.

NuBSG was better supported by its host network, and was far more active in examining contemporary issues of its day. Yes, there were some things I found tough to swallow (Adama ceding even partial control to the head of the civilian dept. of education during an emergency) but overall, it was well done. They did alot of things in NuBSG that they couldn't have done in 1978. The ending could have been better, but that's what happens when a writers' strike screws your show up.
NuBSG didn't go off the rails until part 2 of season 4. Remember, when part 1 of Season 4 was written, they didn't know if they would get part 2. So they wrote in such a way they could end it after S4A if they had to. in my opinion, the resulting season 4B went off the tracks because of this.

Really? I thought NuBSG went off the rails in the second part of season 2. Everything after that to me was completely awful, and the ratings slid severely after season 2. (Camp 2)

If I had to pick one or the other for the source for a new movie/tv series I would pick the TOS version, as it would be more interesting to see what they encounter in their trek across the stars, rather than continual examination of humanity's flaws.

I agree, BSG TOS had lots of potential, much like Star Trek TOS did. NuBSG...I am not a fan at all. It started out okay, but they turned it into a soap opera and that is now the template Syfy uses toi create just about everything they make now...as if it were some sort of record breaking blockbuster of a series when it was actually a ratings FAIL compared to shows like Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, even Ghostbusters and WWE. But it did get critical acclaim....mostly because when it comes to science fiction, most critics are completely clueless and unable to critique it. NuBSG put a soap opera in a space suit and then called it science fiction and thus SoapFi was born.

 

[ecgordon]

I'm in Camp 2 on NuBSG, and in Camp 3 for TOS.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm in Camp 2 on NuBSG, and in Camp 3 for TOS.

I think a lot of Camp 2 people had watched BSG TOS first. For me, it went Star Wars > BSG TOS > NuBSG . Because of that order, NuBSG was an anomaly not fitting in the chain...especially after the show went soap about halfway through season 2.

 

[ecgordon]

I was never that big of a Star Wars fan, so BSG TOS's resemblance (and a very cheap resemblance at that) is the reason I never cared for it. I'm old. I grew up watching original Twilight Zone and Outer Limits in their initial broadcasts, and I have also been an avid SF reader for close to 50 years. There have been precious few TV shows and movies that make it to the level of the literature.

 

[mzzz]

I was never that big of a Star Wars fan, so BSG TOS's resemblance (and a very cheap resemblance at that) is the reason I never cared for it. I'm old. I grew up watching original Twilight Zone and Outer Limits in their initial broadcasts, and I have also been an avid SF reader for close to 50 years. There have been precious few TV shows and movies that make it to the level of the literature.

It's hard to compare literature with the visual medium; Babylon 5 is maybe the only thing, to me, that comes close to sci-fi literature that I can think of, hmmmm. Did you watch Blake's 7? It's basically the template that Farscape used, although Farscape had more wacky shenanigans.

 

[YJ02]

Hey Youngjin!

Remember we actually have three camps in here on NuBSG:

Camp 1: Liked the entire show

Camp 2: Liked S1 and S2 (mostly) but feel the show jumped the shark in S3 and later and degenerated into dreck

Camp 3: Disliked the entire show

Me, I am in Camp 2 actually. S1 was pretty strong as was the first half of S2. The second half of S2 it started to run off the rails and starting in S3 it rapidly turned into soapy dreck.

"You are either with us or against us" oh you axis of BSG haters!

 

[Gate_Boarder]

After spending much of my childhood watching One Step Beyond, Thriller, TZ, and the Outer Limits live I am big on anthology shows.
Star Wars not so much, but the original BSG series has lots of potential at least to me.

It will be interesting to see how many of the new 'space operas' we will be clamouring about in 5 years?

 

[shavedape]

I was never that big of a Star Wars fan, so BSG TOS's resemblance (and a very cheap resemblance at that) is the reason I never cared for it. I'm old. I grew up watching original Twilight Zone and Outer Limits in their initial broadcasts, and I have also been an avid SF reader for close to 50 years. There have been precious few TV shows and movies that make it to the level of the literature.

The original Twilight Zone was a rare work of genius. Rod Serling managed to hit it at the exact right moment when television programming was still malleable and one could actually present something intelligent and artistic to viewers. Of course we all know that's not the case today, certainly not on the level that Serling gave us.

 

[Gatefan1976]

The original Twilight Zone was a rare work of genius. Rod Serling managed to hit it at the exact right moment when television programming was still malleable and one could actually present something intelligent and artistic to viewers. Of course we all know that's not the case today, certainly not on the level that Serling gave us.

Hmmm............
I don't think that you -can't- present such a show, but I would agree that you may not be able to make it marketable to the vast majority of the viewing audience and would probably fail.

 

[Overmind One]

I was never that big of a Star Wars fan, so BSG TOS's resemblance (and a very cheap resemblance at that) is the reason I never cared for it. I'm old. I grew up watching original Twilight Zone and Outer Limits in their initial broadcasts, and I have also been an avid SF reader for close to 50 years. There have been precious few TV shows and movies that make it to the level of the literature.

Me too...Im old, that is. But if you have been an avid scifi reader for 50 years, then you are probably older than me. Im almost at my mid-50s. Still, the idea behind Battlestar Galactica was actually Star Wars. The resemblance was so close in spots that legal action was taken for plagiarism.


Knowing this and then seeing the NuBSG take a completely different tack on the story was a disappointment for me at first, then I got used to it for a season and it swerved pff into soap opera in space. They lost me at that point. Many people liked the new direction, but the ratings certainly did not reflect that. Compared to the 5 seasons of Stargate Atlantis, it did not do that well at all.

 

[shavedape]

Hmmm............
I don't think that you -can't- present such a show, but I would agree that you may not be able to make it marketable to the vast majority of the viewing audience and would probably fail.

Yeah, the dictating forces today are too corporate and formulaic. They only think in the most basic, primal lures for getting viewers -- sex; antagonism, fighting and violence; food (even antagonistic food competitions). There are few TV writers today who could match Serling's erudite examination of larger, more complex themes, hence the lazy, cheap crap like countless "Housewives" shows.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yeah, the dictating forces today are too corporate and formulaic. They only think in the most basic, primal lures for getting viewers -- sex; antagonism, fighting and violence; food (even antagonistic food competitions). There are few TV writers today who could match Serling's erudite examination of larger, more complex themes, hence the lazy, cheap crap like countless "Housewives" shows.

Sure, but they work -from a pure money POV.

The question then is, have we lost the ability to write such stuff, or that no one will give it a chance?

 

[Overmind One]

Yeah, the dictating forces today are too corporate and formulaic. They only think in the most basic, primal lures for getting viewers -- sex; antagonism, fighting and violence; food (even antagonistic food competitions). There are few TV writers today who could match Serling's erudite examination of larger, more complex themes, hence the lazy, cheap crap like countless "Housewives" shows.

....and herein lies the problem (and the deception). They have "dumbed down" the audience by lowering the bar. This is not just the TV audience, it is entire generations of children starting in pre-school. It is (I believe) an intentional act of dulling the senses. We have to look to history for the motivation. Before the printing press, only people who could read (and had access to books) could wield power socially. That changed when the printing press gave books to everyone. Then later, certain books were "forbidden" and finally removed from circulation. The slaves of any culture had to be denied education in the form or reading or writing as to keep them uninformed and dependent on others. Subjugation of populations requires them to be compliant and receptive to new information. This is why I resent it when I see people compromising their standards because they just are being fed poison a drop at a time and dont care to see what is happening.

They started out with the already lighthearted Stargate SG-1 which had some heavy science and actual military input in it's creation, them moved on to the more fantastical (but still heavy in science) Stargate Atlantis which was more entertaining but less intellectually complex (IMO), to the entirely interpersonal and emotional Stargate Universe which was basically unrelated to its progenitors. BUT...many just stayed on the ride without realizing that the whole thing had turned into something else. This has happened to Star Trek. Whatever that creation is they are calling Star Trek now (NuTrek), it just isnt Star Trek. Its just DUMB now. No science in it anymore. Just references to it without explaining it. I resent the fact that the dumb new audiences don't understand science so they now call it "technobabble". I hate knowing that the utterly dumb show The Walking Dead is the highest rated scripted show on television. And Ascension to me was like a visual lobotomy. I am NOT OKAY with soap-fi. No matter how many times they keep warming it up and serving it, I know Im getting Intellect-Lite. Not filling at all.

 

[Overmind One]

Sure, but they work -from a pure money POV.

The question then is, have we lost the ability to write such stuff, or that no one will give it a chance?

The ability is still there. The interest is not. How many of the "new audience" wants to buy real music? I mean real music as in using actual musical instruments and singing using an actual trained voice and no autotune? Very few. I just found out that the latest BMWs have a new "feature" that actually plays the SOUND of a high end engine through the interior sound system which is tied to the accelerator signal coming from the fly-by-wire accelerator. . I see this being put to use in a future version of the Yugo. Throw a 3-cyl engine in the thing and then play the sound of a high end v12 inside. Lovely.

Few are willing to demand better and REJECT the substandard junk. Too many will just say "well, okay..." and compromise "just this time". Several more small compromises and the next thing you know you are on the short bus. I can actually see the difference between the new Haagen Dazs container and the older one. The top is the same, but the sides are now tapered and the former pint is only 14oz now. Price is the same. The equivalent thing is happening in entertainment and few care.

If you remember the star trek episode where people had to be relocated secretly from one planet to another, and the crew led the people through caves and over mountains, but they were in a holodeck. By the time they were relocated, they never knew...at least most of them.

 

[Gatefan1976]

The ability is still there. The interest is not. How many of the "new audience" wants to buy real music? I mean real music as in using actual musical instruments and singing using an actual trained voice and no autotune? Very few. I just found out that the latest BMWs have a new "feature" that actually plays the SOUND of a high end engine through the interior sound system which is tied to the accelerator signal coming from the fly-by-wire accelerator. . I see this being put to use in a future version of the Yugo. Throw a 3-cyl engine in the thing and then play the sound of a high end v12 inside. Lovely.

Few are willing to demand better and REJECT the substandard junk. Too many will just say "well, okay..." and compromise "just this time". Several more small compromises and the next thing you know you are on the short bus. I can actually see the difference between the new Haagen Dazs container and the older one. The top is the same, but the sides are now tapered and the former pint is only 14oz now. Price is the same. The equivalent thing is happening in entertainment and few care.

If you remember the star trek episode where people had to be relocated secretly from one planet to another, and the crew led the people through caves and over mountains, but they were in a holodeck. By the time they were relocated, they never knew...at least most of them.

Errr, that was insurrection.......................

 

[Overmind One]

Errr, that was insurrection.......................

Nope, the Son'a were never relocated. The TNG episode was Homeward (S07Ep13). You think I would make a mistake like that?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Nope, the Son'a were never relocated. The TNG episode was Homeward (S07Ep13). You think I would make a mistake like that?

You mean the Ba'ku..............