Whomever...it was in the Insurrection movie which was not one of my favorites. But that Homeward episode is...it may have inspired Insurrection. Even the Son'a themselves seemed a sad ripoff of the Videans from Voyager.
Is it just me, or does Ascension sound like another bout of Soap-Fi?
- Thread starter Joelist
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Whomever...it was in the Insurrection movie which was not one of my favorites. But that Homeward episode is...it may have inspired Insurrection. Even the Son'a themselves seemed a sad ripoff of the Videans from Voyager.
Annoyed
Surly Old Curmudgeon
Me too...Im old, that is.But if you have been an avid scifi reader for 50 years, then you are probably older than me.
Knowing this and then seeing the NuBSG take a completely different tack on the story was a disappointment for me at first, then I got used to it for a season and it swerved pff into soap opera in space. They lost me at that point. Many people liked the new direction, but the ratings certainly did not reflect that. Compared to the 5 seasons of Stargate Atlantis, it did not do that well at all.
Galactica TOS was indeed predicated upon the financial success of Star Wars. This is common for TV. If ABC hadn't done Galactica, someone else would have done something similar. As noted in the Wiki article, in turn, Star Wars could be accused of copying from other properties before it. I consider the lawsuit brought by 20th Century Fox to be sour grapes, nothing more.
An interesting bit from the article:
Too bad he didn't watch the series. Later episodes involving the militaristic Terran "Eastern Alliance", culminating with "Experiment in Terra" took comparison to the former Soviet Union to a new high. But I digress.
While both properies were set in space, Star Wars was the story of a small band of determined rebels defeating an evil empire, while Galactica was a retelling of the "Exodus" biblical tale. Totally different ideas, neither original.
Oh, and btw, unfortunately, I'm past the mid-50's, so respect your elders, junior. :p
ecgordon
Star's Hero
Yeah, I'm old. I'll be 65 later this year.
As for BSG ripping off Star Wars, the first time I saw BSG I figured Larson had stolen the idea for the Cylon's from Fred Saberhagen's Berserker series of books. Then again, in both books and the film media there really isn't anything original. Most plots can be traced back to either the Greek playwrights or Shakespeare.
As for BSG ripping off Star Wars, the first time I saw BSG I figured Larson had stolen the idea for the Cylon's from Fred Saberhagen's Berserker series of books. Then again, in both books and the film media there really isn't anything original. Most plots can be traced back to either the Greek playwrights or Shakespeare.
Annoyed
Surly Old Curmudgeon
Regarding the discussion about whether or not a quality show can survive today, I'm reminded of a discussion on SyFy's boards a few weeks back.
http://forums.syfy.com/index.php?showtopic=2363468&hl=
My point then, and now is that we are living through & witnessing the fall of the United States.
You are SO correct here. And it's not just the TV/Media industries. Our own government has been "dumbing down' the population via thepublic educational system public indoctrination system for 30-40 years now. It no longer simply teaches them the facts and how to evaluate those facts, instead it teaches what people should think and believe, often ignoring any inconvenient facts that go against whatever it is they're selling. Again, historically, this is behaviour seen in a declining society.
Just as the coliseum in Rome was the mechanism for keeping the population in check, so is the crap that succeeds in the media these days. Good storytelling involves making the audience think about their own beliefs in an often critical manner.
This is the best thing about "Continuum", by the way. Watching Kiera slowly come to her realization that what she has believed and stood for all her life is wrong.
But a large segment of the population these days is no longer capable of critical thought or is unwilling to exercise those skills. They are not willing(or able?) to question the things they have been taught. Hence the popularity of raw sewage in our media.
I think Robert Heinlein put it well when he described "Cheyne-Stokes breathing of a culture about to die." in "Time Enough For Love".
This is what I believe we are seeing today. And in my opinion, it's far too late to turn things around. This society is going to hit the wall, and hard. I don't know if I would want to be a young person today.
http://forums.syfy.com/index.php?showtopic=2363468&hl=
Pakar:
Posted 09 December 2014 - 07:47 AM
42 episodes is not bad for a science fiction series these difficult for sci fi tv days.
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Annoyed58 (Yours truly)
Posted 09 December 2014 - 09:34 AM
But raw garbage can run for hundreds of eps... This society is a train wreck.
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Mockingbirdgirl
Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:48 PM
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Annoyed58 (Yours truly)
Posted 09 December 2014 - 11:22 PM
For your sake, you had better hope that you're right. You're the one who is young enough to have to survive after the fall. I've already lived most of my life, and there is a reasonable chance I might be dead of natural causes by the time it does crash. But I give this society no more than 25 years, and that might be generous.
But look at history. I guess ancient Rome is the best example. They were once the most advanced society on Earth, with much of its art and culture surviving to this day. But as Rome moved ever closer to its eventual demise, the society grew more decadent and debased. Sound familiar? This same theme has played out over and over throughout human history.
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Mockingbirdgirl
Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:02 AM
None of which has ANY RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER to Showcase's decision to renew Continuum.
Please find another venue for your "it's the end of the world as we know it" grousing.
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Annoyed58 (Yours truly)
Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:25 AM
Actually, it does.
My original comment was "But raw garbage can run for hundreds of eps... This society is a train wreck".
The point being that as a society declines, so does the quality of entertainment that it enjoys.
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Pakar
Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:22 AM
We are talking about the early end of a science fiction series and i pointed out that this is not, unfortunately, something new. The fact that science fiction has a rating problem the last years means something, it tells us something about contemporary viewers.
My point then, and now is that we are living through & witnessing the fall of the United States.
You are SO correct here. And it's not just the TV/Media industries. Our own government has been "dumbing down' the population via the
Just as the coliseum in Rome was the mechanism for keeping the population in check, so is the crap that succeeds in the media these days. Good storytelling involves making the audience think about their own beliefs in an often critical manner.
This is the best thing about "Continuum", by the way. Watching Kiera slowly come to her realization that what she has believed and stood for all her life is wrong.
But a large segment of the population these days is no longer capable of critical thought or is unwilling to exercise those skills. They are not willing(or able?) to question the things they have been taught. Hence the popularity of raw sewage in our media.
I think Robert Heinlein put it well when he described "Cheyne-Stokes breathing of a culture about to die." in "Time Enough For Love".
This is what I believe we are seeing today. And in my opinion, it's far too late to turn things around. This society is going to hit the wall, and hard. I don't know if I would want to be a young person today.
Annoyed
Surly Old Curmudgeon
Ok, and now, back to the topic of the thread... Ascension.
I finally finished this yesterday, and while all the usual criticisms such as gratuitous sex, far too much female eye candy and far too much he'in & she'in, I found the story interesting once I got into it.
However. I had to suspend disbelief at the very premise of the show, that a group of highly intelligent men and women could be duped into thinking they're in a spaceship for 50 years. I simply cannot buy that. Over a 50 year period, there was no EVA activity by any of the occupants of the ship?
And some of the tricks shown to create that believability were even worse. When Stokes is spaced, they depict him being sucked out of the ship by the supposed vacuum of space. But the outside of the ship wasn't a vacuum. So where did the air pressure differential come from?
The story was ok, but the telling of the story was badly botched. They did leave themselves with a workable ending that could lead to a series; Where did the little girl teleport Gault to, and how did she do it ? What exactly is she? If this does go to series, that may be a very good underpinning for it.
I finally finished this yesterday, and while all the usual criticisms such as gratuitous sex, far too much female eye candy and far too much he'in & she'in, I found the story interesting once I got into it.
However. I had to suspend disbelief at the very premise of the show, that a group of highly intelligent men and women could be duped into thinking they're in a spaceship for 50 years. I simply cannot buy that. Over a 50 year period, there was no EVA activity by any of the occupants of the ship?
And some of the tricks shown to create that believability were even worse. When Stokes is spaced, they depict him being sucked out of the ship by the supposed vacuum of space. But the outside of the ship wasn't a vacuum. So where did the air pressure differential come from?
The story was ok, but the telling of the story was badly botched. They did leave themselves with a workable ending that could lead to a series; Where did the little girl teleport Gault to, and how did she do it ? What exactly is she? If this does go to series, that may be a very good underpinning for it.
Gate_Boarder
Well Known GateFan
Do I dare bring up Mockingbird.
People of the younger generation have got it made. They don't know of the medical advances that have ocurred in the last fifty years. Heating your homes with coal and artificial gas - or how about the sawdust burner?. What about telephones? I had something called a "partyline" when I was growing up. Now you carry the telephone around in your pocket.
Times are 'ah-changing'. Just like the book says, "These were the best of times, and these were the worst of times". If something happens, all we will have is the 'not make do with' generation. And that will be a really big shock for everyone.
Either that or we will be living in the first of many 'Utopias'. I have a shiny new electronic gizmo and I can hardly wait for the next due out in six months.
People of the younger generation have got it made. They don't know of the medical advances that have ocurred in the last fifty years. Heating your homes with coal and artificial gas - or how about the sawdust burner?. What about telephones? I had something called a "partyline" when I was growing up. Now you carry the telephone around in your pocket.
Times are 'ah-changing'. Just like the book says, "These were the best of times, and these were the worst of times". If something happens, all we will have is the 'not make do with' generation. And that will be a really big shock for everyone.
Either that or we will be living in the first of many 'Utopias'. I have a shiny new electronic gizmo and I can hardly wait for the next due out in six months.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
Not too long ago I (re)read Isaac Asimov's Foundation series and was shocked at how much stuff George Lucas clearly cribbed from those books. He "imitated" a lot of stuff from various sources so he really shouldn't be suing anyone else for copyright infringement.
Love the original BSG btw. I'm pretty sure Glen Larson wrote the story long before Star Wars was ever out so the claim some people make that it was a rip off of SW is erroneous. To me the only thing they have in common is that events in both take place in space to some degree, that's it.
And yes ecgordon, you're right, both stories are riddled with themes and archetypes that were laid down long ago.
Not too long ago I (re)read Isaac Asimov's Foundation series and was shocked at how much stuff George Lucas clearly cribbed from those books. He "imitated" a lot of stuff from various sources so he really shouldn't be suing anyone else for copyright infringement.
Love the original BSG btw. I'm pretty sure Glen Larson wrote the story long before Star Wars was ever out so the claim some people make that it was a rip off of SW is erroneous. To me the only thing they have in common is that events in both take place in space to some degree, that's it.
And yes ecgordon, you're right, both stories are riddled with themes and archetypes that were laid down long ago.
The story of BSG was written before, but the TV series was designed specifically to appeal to the Star Wars fans. When Star Wars came out, nobody was ready for it's impact. We saw a flurry of science fiction shows and movies come out after it. There is no doubt that the look and feel of the original Battlestar Galactica was aping Star Wars.
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THIS. Obviously, this so-called "miniseries" is unfinished. I did manage to pick up on something in an Industry seminar I can talk about here. The cable companies and show producers have been given some new rules of thumb by the marketing and advertising industries:
New shows must include an ending script, running shows must be properly ended. Seasons of shows must end in such a way that can be used as an ending when approval has not been given in advance for the next season (this means no more cliffhangers for new shows, folks!). This is why we are getting ending "seasons" for the latest shows that have been cancelled. Its why new shows are starting with pilots which end (mostly). This is how it was done in the first place. Production companies began to use the cliffhanger strategy to ensure the future of their new shows, but the studios bore the brunt of the negative backlash if they cancelled the show. Now, they have to prove themselves first.
The audience has been burned too many times by investing time and emotion in shows that suddenly end and are not renewed. They retaliate in a very measurable way on many levels against the channel, the studio, the writers and producers and sometimes the parent companies. The resentment can last for months, or even years. I heard somebody make a reference to bringing somebody close to orgasm, then getting up and getting dressed before it is reached. Another person described taking a forkful of pie to your mouth, only to have it fall off just before you eat it.
I have to disagree here. I think we are seeing a fall of the Status Quo, not the fall of the United States. Much of what the US has held in high esteem NEEDS to be eliminated.
Agree! At least two people on this forum tend to accept "minor" changes which are actually major changes in things, and it does not bother them at all when the very foundations of things are completely swapped out for nonsense. They even create the "reasoning" for the changes, facilitating the suspension of belief. This is truly brilliant programming. When you have the audience HELPING you to dumb them down, what could be easier? When there are enough dummies in the audience to exceed the number of thinking people, they can turn and make you seem uncool for being smart. Fascinating.
WWE, spectator sports, Dancing with the Stars, The Biggest Loser, Bachlorette/Bachelor reality shows, etc...Colosseum by any other name. This still works.
Exactly! This is actually my own personal experience as well. Perhaps when we get to be over 40, we start seeing how the construct works and who it is really working for, and we become cynical and jaded. I absolutely love Continuum and I am very interested in how they plan to end it this final season.
Regarding the bolded, the answer to that is a big fat HELL NO. I am thankful that I was born in a time which saw the birth of the Information Age, the personal computer, space flight, the color television, the microwave, the cellphone, the Internet and PC games. I agree that this society is about to hit the wall and change significantly, but to me that is a good thing. Lots and lots of stuff which is part of American society needs to hit the wall, be smashed and killed with fire and disinfectants.
I am very okay with major changes. It isnt change that bothers me, it is HOW things are changing that bother me. Society is supposed to advance, not deteriorate. The dulling of human creativity makes for a dim future.
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Gate_Boarder
Well Known GateFan
Sorry for the interjection, but with the death of Donna Douglas, aged 81, it does put a definite perspective on the sci-fi front and especially TZ. All the old-time fiction viewers are quickly dying off, leaving nothing to watch in their wake.
I remember as a youngling thinking if she was an 'ugly', then what did the most beautiful woman in the world look like?
I remember as a youngling thinking if she was an 'ugly', then what did the most beautiful woman in the world look like?
Ellie May Clampett from the Beverly Hillbillies.
She remained an interesting person for many decades after that. Rest sweetly, Donna!
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
were the Son'a the group of skin grafted freaks that sold arms to the Dominion?
and with Insurrection--never bought it (like i should really care--its a show!) that Worf was given so much time off from DS9 in the middle of a massive war where DS9 was on the frontline
and-he had a ship to Captain
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
Ah! We were perhaps supposed to "believe" that Stokes was feeling a vacuum and anticipating being frozen, etcetera do to his anticipated and learned response= you are on a ship-get spaced, you die
Besides-they didn't want to ruin it for us! Like no one figured out within the first hour of the first ep anyhow!
The girl is the same trope as the magic girl from FALLING SKIES!
I am guessing that in addition to more of the same, we will also see Number 6 (CPT's slut wife) grab power, the CPT and his wife will align with the good scientists on the outside to preserve the secret and therfore their "onboard" power
AND- notice any old people on the ship? I didn't--that is why I said I see a hint of LOGAN'S RUN here as well, They will have some voluntary "walk into the giant people sized fly zapper thingy" below decks somewhere.....
So hell! Lets throw in SOYLENT GREEN as well--the 'zapped' fogeys will be reprocessed into protein
Can't wait!
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
The story of BSG was written before, but the TV series was designed specifically to appeal to the Star Wars fans. When Star Wars came out, nobody was ready for it's impact. We saw a flurry of science fiction shows and movies come out after it. There is no doubt that the look and feel of the original Battlestar Galactica was aping Star Wars.
Oh I'm sure the success of SW helped to get BSG quickly greenlit for production, that's a given. The SFX in SW also laid down the template for everything with a space battle that followed. In fact SFX guru John Dykstra worked on both SW and BSG. I think Lucas was full of shit when he saw BSG as a competitor though. To me the stories are completely different. BSG was hardly infringing on the SW market, at least that's how I see it.
I agree. I liked to think of it as something that was going on in the same timescape, even the same universe, but following a completely different faction of rebels akin to the Pilgrims who left for America. Battlestar Galactica could easily have been a quest by a Rebel planet in the Galactic Empire who discovered some ancient text somewhere indicating a path to the Milky Way and Earth.
Annoyed
Surly Old Curmudgeon
So, you think that whatever replaces the U.S. will be an improvement? A failed society isn't often replaced by a sudden outbreak of freedom & enlightenment.
It may well go far worse than that. Nature abhors a vacuum. When the U.S. falls, every tinpot, crazy despot or dictator with delusions of grandeur is going to try to take our place as king of the hill, or at the very least, try to work the situation to their advantage. All it will take is one nut job to pull either the biological or nuclear triggers and the human race itself might be knocked back several thousand years. If we're lucky. If we're not so lucky....
Im not sure how it will turn out.
But it needs to change and change quickly. Any culture or nation that can lead to waging a full scale nuclear exchange needs to be a stable one. Not one that picks fights, and not one that shrinks away from moral conflict (based in HUMAN morality, not national or religious). It wont be sudden, it will be gradual. The only sudden event that could destroy a smooth transition would be collapse of the US dollar.I do not see the US falling, I see it changing into a different type of superpower. Normal people have no interest in launching nuclear or biological weapons against other people. The ones who are likely to do those things for the wrong reasons are the ones who need to be removed from the equation.
Annoyed
Surly Old Curmudgeon
When the U.S. does collapse, of course the dollar will go into the tank with it. The U.S. is already way beyond bankrupt. There is a good chance the crash of the dollar will be the trigger; at some point, moneymen from other countries will see that we are bankrupt beyond our ability to ever get caught up and lose confidence.Im not sure how it will turn out.
Heh. You funny.
The "normal people" have no say in the matter. Haven't for a long time now. The people who should be removed from power; the financial interests, those who are in government for the power trip or financial rewards are the ones who have taken over our government and their hold on it is getting stronger every day.
It doesn't matter a bit who wins the next election; all we are choosing between is evil and evil lite. It takes big money to win on the national stage these days. And the brokers of that money are the true power in this country today. We "normal people" have absolutely no say in what goes on anymore.
Our founding fathers set up what is probably the best government that has ever existed on this planet to this point in time, with a "rulebook" in the form of the Constitution, which was intended to limit the power of government. Every level and division of our government today ignores this document with impunity, right up to and including the U.S. Supreme Court (SCOTUS) whenever it is convenient. Particularly the 10th amendment. Look at the current occupant of the White House (LSoS). The executive branch of the government is charged with carrying out the laws passed by the legislative branch. Not with creating law on its own. But this administration does whatever it wants, and no one calls them out on it. Not the media, not Congress in any meaningful way, ( Boehner generally goes along with whatever the administration wants because the Republican party leadership actually wants many of the same things the administration does! )
The 10th amendment pretty much states that if the Constitution doesn't explicitly grant a power to the government, the government doesn't have that power. Where in the hell did George Bush II find the authority to bail out car companies and banks? Or any failing private business? Or where did Jimmy Carter find it when he bailed out Chrysler the first time in 1979? It wasn't in the Constitution when I went to school.
It doesn't matter, Republican or Democrat, neither major party has any interest in governing according to the rules. The only group that is advocating adherence to the Constitution is the "Tea Party" folks, and they don't have a prayer of ever obtaining the resources required to unseat either of the two big players. They are closer to the Republicans, but the national Republican party wants nothing to do with them, and will use its considerable financial resources to prevent them from having any significant effect on our course.
Sorry to run on and rant.. but the country is run by the very people who should be run out of office on a rail, and thanks the the overwhelming influence of money upon our election process, there is little chance of changing that. The people have no say whatsoever.
BRAVO! This is the sort of stuff we do here all the time, wether it be on about a movie or show, or politics and what not. Have at it.
We are very similar in our perspective on the government and overall gameboard we are all forced to sit on. I like your views. More! Although, this seems more like something that would be discussed in the 24/7 Lounge forum.