Of course. But that will be difficult until the ship is resupplied and reprovisioned.
The Last Ship - could've been worse
- Thread starter Joelist
- Start date
Of course. But that will be difficult until the ship is resupplied and reprovisioned.
On a different note, why wouldn't people be willing to work towards rebuilding? Why wouldn't they want to have order so they can live safely? No one ever said they were setting up the exact same US government that existed prior to the pandemic. Or that the military would be exactly the same. But the notion that no one would lift a finger to get some sort of defense and governing running or to spread the cure further comes off to me as fatalistic.
In other threads, we all ripped the Romero school of zombie apocalypse because of exactly that type of fatalism. It makes wrong assumptions about how people act in a crisis (that they all act like psychos and such) also.
The Last Ship seems to be coming at post apocalyptic from a different school of thought, more akin to "The Postman" or "Jeremiah". That school shows people ultimately rising above the disaster and rebuilding. And it seems they have decided to have this show follow such an arc. Season 1 was the initial disaster, Season 2 is the aftermath and Season 3 starts the process of recovery.
In other threads, we all ripped the Romero school of zombie apocalypse because of exactly that type of fatalism. It makes wrong assumptions about how people act in a crisis (that they all act like psychos and such) also.
The Last Ship seems to be coming at post apocalyptic from a different school of thought, more akin to "The Postman" or "Jeremiah". That school shows people ultimately rising above the disaster and rebuilding. And it seems they have decided to have this show follow such an arc. Season 1 was the initial disaster, Season 2 is the aftermath and Season 3 starts the process of recovery.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
I think the premise has already run out of steam. The whole "immune revolution" story line was, to me, ridiculous. And now the ship is in dry dock so that means what, a lot of talking scenes taking place on dry land? And even if they jump ahead several months or a year to where the ship is sea worthy again they can't do much except repeat the same stuff that they did in the first two seasons. (Go to dry land. Meet resistance. Overcome that resistance. Set sail again. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.)
We'll see.
I liked the whole immunes storyline. The notion of a group of immunes spreading a "master race" ideology to others and causing a lot of harm was well executed. It echoed the rise of Nazism on another chaotic scenario (in that case the cataclysmic effects of the Great Depression in Germany after WW1) but remolded it to the pandemic world.
I do think next season should be the finale though. Trying to stretch the recovery longer than a season will cause everything to bog down.
I liked the whole immunes storyline. The notion of a group of immunes spreading a "master race" ideology to others and causing a lot of harm was well executed. It echoed the rise of Nazism on another chaotic scenario (in that case the cataclysmic effects of the Great Depression in Germany after WW1) but remolded it to the pandemic world.
I do think next season should be the finale though. Trying to stretch the recovery longer than a season will cause everything to bog down.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
Well at least now you can devote your Sunday nights to catching up on Fear the Festering Turd on AMC.
You mean REALISTIC? Yes, people would definitely be forming defensive strategies and organizing themselves into communities. They would not, however, even think about re-establishing the engine of global military operations. WHY would they do it? Military operations do not enhance civilization. They put it at gunpoint. They are the arm of a global agenda, not an organization of peacekeeping or order. They cannot even be considered law enforcement! Seriously try and put yourself in a post-pandemic world. You are immune, not part of any supremacist movement, you have survived the pandemic and the global nations have collapsed. Humanity is now organized in it's most basic hierarchy of natural primate tribes. Even if there were factions wanting to establish military operations, I seriously doubt they would do so under the flag of any nation or for the former military or the United States.
If you think about it, perhaps the more psycho act is trying to re-establish the military and things like capitalism and the type of governments which run nations today.
Im all for rebuilding things. But the rebuilding has to be a replacing as well. I loved the first season because the pandemic was just starting and we were seeing the "foot on the anthill" effect of scrambling and power struggles and panic. After the global population has been culled, the need for this ship and the mission of the people on board has become faded and is "running out of steam" as Ape put it. It should be ended now. I do not accept the notion that anyone would rationally believe that the surviving humans on earth would want to re-establish the nations they came from.
Last edited:
THIS. And isn't it the same as zombies who celebrate birthdays? The ship's crew cannot expect anyone to repair their ship, and why would they? After a week, most everyone who was on that ship would be AWOL deserters, and that would actually make more sense than them coming back to sail again. Time to make The Last Bomber or The Last Airport.
No, fatalistic. What I said was correct.
No one in the show ever spoke about capitalism or global agendas or any such thing. You seem to be projecting things onto the show which it itself has not expressed. They have been very much centered on getting the cure out and defeating the immune supremacists BECUASE they were destroying the efforts to get the cure out. Also on stopping the anarchy. And getting some type of order established is the first step. And in this world state it is going to require some type of military to stop the warlordism and banditry and such.
No one in the show ever spoke about capitalism or global agendas or any such thing. You seem to be projecting things onto the show which it itself has not expressed. They have been very much centered on getting the cure out and defeating the immune supremacists BECUASE they were destroying the efforts to get the cure out. Also on stopping the anarchy. And getting some type of order established is the first step. And in this world state it is going to require some type of military to stop the warlordism and banditry and such.
THIS. And isn't it the same as zombies who celebrate birthdays? The ship's crew cannot expect anyone to repair their ship, and why would they? After a week, most everyone who was on that ship would be AWOL deserters, and that would actually make more sense than them coming back to sail again. Time to make The Last Bomber or The Last Airport.
Again why would they be AWOL deserters? Again you seem to be making a fatalistic assumption. Don't forget this whole issue already came up and this crew voluntarily decided to stick together. And they have been through a lot together now and are pretty tight knit. As to who would help fix the ship, there are a lot of possibilities. People they have cured for example. Or they make barter deals for the help. Or people volunteer to help because they also want the cure going further. any number of reasons - and next season hopefully they will get into them.
Well, I am not going to argue since I have not been watching this show. I just know that if 80% of the global population died and this government fell apart, I would first seek to secure food and water supplies, then find a defensible home for myself and loved ones, and weapons and allies in the area to protect ourselves. If a police SWAT vehicle came along with police aboard (evidently refusing to accept the fact that they are irrelevant) needing repairs, they would get laughed at. Why are they wearing uniforms? Why are they taking orders from a navy commander? It really makes no sense at all.
I cannot really speak on the show, since I am not watching it. You just need to know WHY this show no longer appeals to me.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
With only one battleship it would be nigh impossible to get the entire continental United States to submit themselves to a single governing body. There are not enough troops to cover the entire geographical area let alone enforce allegiance by the survivors. The entire continent would splinter into thousands of fiefdoms that would gladly tell a "President" and "Congress" to go eff themselves.
Even my landlord would be told to eff herself.
Our building would likely lock the security doors and defend our apartments and the building like a fort. The pool would become a precious resource. It's only 8 units. . I would not recognize the authority of the police or the military. Most likely they would be trying to confiscate food and water and other resources to maintain their power. Screw them.
And since no one on the show ever even mentioned the whole continent submitting themselves or enforcing allegiance or any of that it is kind of moot. You're buying into the Romero model again when our real life experience of people in disasters is that whole some clam up more actually try to help others.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
don't you need more then one ship to be an admiral? or at least something bigger then then Nathan James?
i didn't watch it yet--sounds good though
are they going to enlist the kids and the red haired geek girl?
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
Your comment doesn't make sense (which is odd because you're usually quite erudite in your comments). I have no idea what you mean by "the Romero model". More importantly, to my point, if they aren't trying to sew up the continental United States again what are they trying to do? Why even have a President (in St. Louis no less) if their goal isn't to have a nation?
Your comment doesn't make sense (which is odd because you're usually quite erudite in your comments). I have no idea what you mean by "the Romero model". More importantly, to my point, if they aren't trying to sew up the continental United States again what are they trying to do? Why even have a President (in St. Louis no less) if their goal isn't to have a nation?
THIS. The reason I got turned off of this show is because it pre-supposes that survivors of a global pandemic which has reduced the human population to 20% of what it was is going to be motivated to re-establish the US and rebuild it's government and military forces. That is unrealistic and simply would not happen. It is not like post-war or being defeated in a war where there are still intact nations (the winning side). This is a global pandemic where there are NO nations left.
Having said that, I also do not get the Romero references. My view is not fatalistic, it is realistic.
Yeah, why is THIS ship being used? An aircraft carrier, yes. Even a ballistic submarine. But this ship? Uh uh. I doubt anyone would be following the military chain of command after finding out there is no military or any United States left. The grunts in the engine room would have no need to sweat or follow orders and work. Why would they do it?
Romero model = fatalistic view of people which says that in a disaster they basically all turn into little bands of savages and do not cooperate with each other or help each other out. Usually features psychotic behavior by police and military as well. We have all blasted that sort of pessimistic model in shows like TWD but now it sounds like you're blasting The Last Ship for NOT having that sort of model.
As to the crew still sticking together, again remember they dealt with this before (in fact they dealt with it twice - once in Season One and again earlier this Season). The crew all decided to stick together and indeed are more tightly knit now from all they have been through. So there is no mystery about why they stick together. They decided as a group twice now to stick with the ship and to follow the command structure.
Regarding ships, let's remember that they have a crew of around 200. A CVN requires a crew in the thousands and nuclear subs require highly specialized crew skills. So it's not like they can just hop to a different type of ship - this company is the right size for and is trained to operate an Arleigh Burke (looks like a Flight IIA variant) DDG.
Which brings us (yet again) to the idea that no one would want to establish any type of military or government again. Actually in a time where you have anarchy (which we have already seen), complete economic dislocation (which includes things like transporting food around) and because of the pandemic a lot of fear the idea of getting a rudimentary government set up with a military to start restoring order, restoring communications and such would be VERY appealing. And no one in the show has ever said "restart the whole massive US government again" or anything resembling that.
All they have done is set up a provisional government out of St. Louis and started the process of putting down the bandits and such, getting communications going and getting the cure promulgated further. I don't expect a TV show to present a detailed thesis on political/economic/social order after a pandemic, so to me they have done okay on this so far.
Finally, Admiral Chandler. If you think about this it is a smart move by the President. It forestalls any nonsense of some other naval officers popping up and trying to assert legal authority. Plus he is going to need someone with the proper rank to simply assume command of other military personnel/units they encounter. And Chandler's billet as Chief of Naval Operations specifically includes the reopening of communications mentioned earlier and distributing the cure (including to overseas).
This actually made me think of NuBSG in the respect of President Roslin blundering early on by not promoting Adama to Admiral right after they left the Colonies. Had she done so a lot of the nonsense with Admiral Cain would not have occurred because with them both the same rank Adama by seniority would be senior officer. Just a bit of silliness there...
As to the crew still sticking together, again remember they dealt with this before (in fact they dealt with it twice - once in Season One and again earlier this Season). The crew all decided to stick together and indeed are more tightly knit now from all they have been through. So there is no mystery about why they stick together. They decided as a group twice now to stick with the ship and to follow the command structure.
Regarding ships, let's remember that they have a crew of around 200. A CVN requires a crew in the thousands and nuclear subs require highly specialized crew skills. So it's not like they can just hop to a different type of ship - this company is the right size for and is trained to operate an Arleigh Burke (looks like a Flight IIA variant) DDG.
Which brings us (yet again) to the idea that no one would want to establish any type of military or government again. Actually in a time where you have anarchy (which we have already seen), complete economic dislocation (which includes things like transporting food around) and because of the pandemic a lot of fear the idea of getting a rudimentary government set up with a military to start restoring order, restoring communications and such would be VERY appealing. And no one in the show has ever said "restart the whole massive US government again" or anything resembling that.
All they have done is set up a provisional government out of St. Louis and started the process of putting down the bandits and such, getting communications going and getting the cure promulgated further. I don't expect a TV show to present a detailed thesis on political/economic/social order after a pandemic, so to me they have done okay on this so far.
Finally, Admiral Chandler. If you think about this it is a smart move by the President. It forestalls any nonsense of some other naval officers popping up and trying to assert legal authority. Plus he is going to need someone with the proper rank to simply assume command of other military personnel/units they encounter. And Chandler's billet as Chief of Naval Operations specifically includes the reopening of communications mentioned earlier and distributing the cure (including to overseas).
This actually made me think of NuBSG in the respect of President Roslin blundering early on by not promoting Adama to Admiral right after they left the Colonies. Had she done so a lot of the nonsense with Admiral Cain would not have occurred because with them both the same rank Adama by seniority would be senior officer. Just a bit of silliness there...
I do see people reaching out to help each other, protecting each other and sharing resources. That is normal, instinctual primate behavior. What is NOT normal and is unlikely (and seems to be what this show is proposing) is the idea that anyone would want to rebuild the United States government and especially it's military. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Where you see those decisions and that situation to be within your ability to suspend belief, It is far beyond mine. I do not accept a scenario where people would decide to remain on a smallish battleship which barely functions and is under the command of a man who has no authority. I do not accept the idea that anyone with a rational mind would NOT take every opportunity to leave that ship and make a better life on land if the situation presented itself. I do not accept that any military trained person would choose to follow a US military command structure as a subordinate. It is just not going to happen.Yes, but you are talking about a world where the ships and subs and crews are all part of a global military under the command of the President or other central authority. In this show, they all know now that there is no United States, no command hierarchy, and very few people left on earth. I just cannot suspend belief enough to believe that even ONE person would choose to remain on that ship and follow orders from ANYONE, let alone voluntarily leave land to sail on this smallish ship.
I disagree. Order would come NATURALLY. Humans are primates, and primates NATURALLY form hierarchies without governments or militaries. I scoff at the idea that THE military would be the ones who restore order. People with guns and equipment would be the ones who protect the new tribes. But they would not be part of any "rebuilt military" representing the United States.
See, that is a problem for me. Provisional government...for what/where? St Louis, or for the continental lands of North America? If I am in Los Angeles, I am not going to recognize any "provisional government" out of St Louis.
Finally, Admiral Chandler. If you think about this it is a smart move by the President. It forestalls any nonsense of some other naval officers popping up and trying to assert legal authority. Plus he is going to need someone with the proper rank to simply assume command of other military personnel/units they encounter. And Chandler's billet as Chief of Naval Operations specifically includes the reopening of communications mentioned earlier and distributing the cure (including to overseas).
This actually made me think of NuBSG in the respect of President Roslin blundering early on by not promoting Adama to Admiral right after they left the Colonies. Had she done so a lot of the nonsense with Admiral Cain would not have occurred because with them both the same rank Adama by seniority would be senior officer. Just a bit of silliness there...
All of those bolded items are why I refuse to watch this show again. There would be no ranks, titles, no President, no military, no "Chief of Military Operations". Enjoy the show!
Actually it's pretty easy to understand why the crew would decide to remain with the ship and to follow their officers. They decided that the need to first find, then distribute the cure outweighed their personal desires to go elsewhere. Plus a lot of them lost their families in Norfolk (Navy families strongly tend to locate themselves close to the home port of the ship the personnel serve on). When they decided to stick with the ship they also decided to follow the command structure on the ship. So no big stretch here. In fact, it even fits into your primate theory. The ship's company in effect is the tribe.
OM, I am not trying to get you to watch the show. We all have different likes and dislikes and this premise seems to rankle you on socio-political grounds - which is fine. I like it because it has been (mostly) well acted and the scripts have been decent. Plus it has done a pretty good job of not getting bogged down in relationship drama. In that respect it is the polar opposite of shows like the recently ended Falling Skies (which got completely bogged down in shipping for one thing).
OM, I am not trying to get you to watch the show. We all have different likes and dislikes and this premise seems to rankle you on socio-political grounds - which is fine. I like it because it has been (mostly) well acted and the scripts have been decent. Plus it has done a pretty good job of not getting bogged down in relationship drama. In that respect it is the polar opposite of shows like the recently ended Falling Skies (which got completely bogged down in shipping for one thing).