Syfy's Dark Matter(Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie)

[Jim of WVa]

Yep. Dark Matter was bigger budget which meant it needed bigger viewership to get the ad rate monies it needed. And yes it did feel kind of unfocused for exact reason OM mentions - there really is no overarching story in the background.

The viewership numbers for Dark Matter were significantly less than SGU. Wikipedia does not say what the US numbers were, but I seem to recall that they were uniformly less than 800,000 viewers. The production on DM, as well as the rest of the Syfy recent original programming, have to be much more efficient (live + 7 day episode viewers per episode production cost) than SGU.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/syfy-tv-show-ratings-updated-33879/

 

[Joelist]

Dark Matter was 686000, Killjoys was 700000. One got canned and the other got a 2 year 20 episode renewal. That pretty much screams cost of production.

 

[Overmind One]

Dark Matter was 686000, Killjoys was 700000. One got canned and the other got a 2 year 20 episode renewal. That pretty much screams cost of production.

Killjoys is more freeform and has more millennial appeal than Dark Matter had, and there are more attractive people in Killjoys, even though I still think Dark Matter was a better show.

 

[PussyGalore]

Killjoys is more freeform and has more millennial appeal than Dark Matter had, and there are more attractive people in Killjoys, even though I still think Dark Matter was a better show.

Just goes to prove that Joe Mallozzi hasn't learned the basic economics lesson SGU should have taught him. There's no reason Dark Matter couldn't have been more streamlined in terms of story and FX. It wasn't Shakespeare. It didn't need to be so finely polished with such a big cast of characters. In fact, had it been a bit more "raw" and stripped down it probably would have done better. At any rate, it doesn't take an accountant from Arthur Andersen to understand how basic economics work. If Joe Mallozzi doesn't understand the business he's in then he needs to find another line of work. And good luck to him now that he's got a reputation as a budgetary wastrel and loser.

 

[Joelist]

Actually Dark Matter was the one with no overarching story to speak of. Killjoys has been running more or less serialized for a season and a half now.

And yes Mallozzi needed to run the show on a tighter budget.

 

[PussyGalore]

Actually Dark Matter was the one with no overarching story to speak of. Killjoys has been running more or less serialized for a season and a half now.

And yes Mallozzi needed to run the show on a tighter budget.

From what you're saying it sounds like Mallozzi didn't have a long term vision of where this story was to go. I don't understand such lack of planning. Using five years as a template (if one is lucky enough to get picked up by a network) why wouldn't you have everything planned out down to the minutest detail? How can one have a lack of an over-arching story when the original set up begs for one?

At one point it was possible to give Mallozzi a pass on SGU because Wright and Cooper were pulling the strings. But there comes a point where the blame for failure simply can't be passed onto someone else. Mallozzi owns this one for sure.

 

[heisenberg]

The viewership numbers for Dark Matter were significantly less than SGU. Wikipedia does not say what the US numbers were, but I seem to recall that they were uniformly less than 800,000 viewers. The production on DM, as well as the rest of the Syfy recent original programming, have to be much more efficient (live + 7 day episode viewers per episode production cost) than SGU.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/syfy-tv-show-ratings-updated-33879/

Killjoys is more freeform and has more millennial appeal than Dark Matter had, and there are more attractive people in Killjoys, even though I still think Dark Matter was a better show.

This tells you that the network is really struggling to get viewers and it's a dying network. Unless Syfy start their own streaming portal, I don't see their network surviving. I am sure they'll be bought out and then their shows will be integrated to whoever buys it. My guess is that it might be hulu since their parent company NBC owns 30% of Hulu

 

[PussyGalore]

This tells you that the network is really struggling to get viewers and it's a dying network. Unless Syfy start their own streaming portal, I don't see their network surviving. I am sure they'll be bought out and then their shows will be integrated to whoever buys it. My guess is that it might be hulu since their parent company NBC owns 30% of Hulu

I don't think SyFy streaming service would be very successful as a stand alone option. Right now you have to pay to get it as part of a cable/satellite package. At the same time it also has a ton of commercials. If they can't make a go of it with the backing of both cable subscribers and commercial advertising revenue then a streaming service won't save them. (I think they're already part of some packaged streaming services like Sling and Roku and that doesn't seem to be helping them.)

The problem with SyFy is the executive management. If the network fails it will be due to the inept management.

 

[Joelist]

SyFy has been distributing some of their shows in a different way the last couple of years. They have been striking deals with streaming services such as Amazon, Hulu and Apple where they sell them the shows and they put first run episodes on streaming the day after SyFy shows them. The Expanse is handled this way, as is Z Nation and possibly others. It makes ratings a lesser part of the equation for these shows.

 

[YJ02]

did it at least get a proper finale?

 

[Jim of WVa]

did it at least get a proper finale?

not really

 

[Jim of WVa]

 

[PussyGalore]

I'm so sick of all these YouTube twats who think they're cool and edgy and use their "channels" to do nothing more than talk like middle-school boys who just discovered the F word.

This guy is a poser nitwit who tries to sound like a bad boy but just comes across as a beta male who keeps his balls in his mother's purse. He doesn't tell us anything we don't already know about the cancellation of DM. And his explanation of how the system works for TV shows isn't some great secret even though he acts like he's exposing some great mystery to us unwashed masses.

Yeah, the cancellation of DM comes down to money. We all know that. We're not stupid. Killjoys offers SyFy a good return on investment. DM does not. Whining that DM doesn't bring in a lot of money but SyFy should keep airing it simply because "it's good" is not an intelligent argument to make. Again, this is a middle-school mentality at work.

The bottom line is this "Jake" character is a bigger twat than the people he rages at. It's best to avoid idiots like this as indulging them only leads to getting cancer of the soul.

 

[heisenberg]

I'm so sick of all these YouTube twats who think they're cool and edgy and use their "channels" to do nothing more than talk like middle-school boys who just discovered the F word.

This guy is a poser nitwit who tries to sound like a bad boy but just comes across as a beta male who keeps his balls in his mother's purse. He doesn't tell us anything we don't already know about the cancellation of DM. And his explanation of how the system works for TV shows isn't some great secret even though he acts like he's exposing some great mystery to us unwashed masses.

Yeah, the cancellation of DM comes down to money. We all know that. We're not stupid. Killjoys offers SyFy a good return on investment. DM does not. Whining that DM doesn't bring in a lot of money but SyFy should keep airing it simply because "it's good" is not an intelligent argument to make. Again, this is a middle-school mentality at work.

The bottom line is this "Jake" character is a bigger twat than the people he rages at. It's best to avoid idiots like this as indulging them only leads to getting cancer of the soul.

You know, profit maximation is never a good thing. If companies was just about short term profits, then, you are heading towards an early grave because your customers are your biggest assets and if you continue to disrespect your customers that are willing to pay, they'll simply choose to do business elsewhere; kinda like with Star Trek at the moment and why syfy won't survive for that long.

 

[PussyGalore]

You know, profit maximation is never a good thing. If companies was just about short term profits, then, you are heading towards an early grave because your customers are your biggest assets and if you continue to disrespect your customers that are willing to pay, they'll simply choose to do business elsewhere; kinda like with Star Trek at the moment and why syfy won't survive for that long.

That doesn't make sense. Killjoys is doing just fine within the parameters that SyFy uses for airing shows. What makes KJ any different from DM other than the fact that they manage to produce it for cheaper? That's the whole point of business, to maximize profits. The producers of KJ have managed to give SyFy a show that is affordable to air. This is Business 101. Obviously Mallozzi wasn't able to do that with DM. If Joe Mallozzi isn't business savvy enough when it comes to budgeting his production that's on him, not SyFy. They're paying him to deliver a product for a reasonable amount of money and they have realized that the return on investment is not worth it for them when it comes to DM. There's nothing wrong with that kind of business decision, in fact, it's how intelligent businesses are run. And it has f*ck all to do with "disrespecting their customers". Dark Matter was not some great scifi classic that had generations of fans over the decades. It was a mediocre show that didn't really go anywhere for three seasons. Three. SyFy respected their customers by giving this show three seasons. That was more than fair. There is no great loss here. And there is no reason to cry and blame SyFy for dropping the ball this time. They didn't. Mallozzi did.

Now I don't exactly appreciate being put in the spot of defending SyFy as it has some major flaws and is in many respects a shitty network. But I'm not going to bash them for making a sound business decision this time around. Would you rather they opened the financial flood gates and did for Dark Matter exactly what Netflix is doing for Star Trek Discovery? Yeah, because that's not going to come back and bite Netflix in the ass, lol.

Now stop defending this "Jake" twat simply because he's an Aussie. He's a whining man-child who likes the sound of his own voice. Most teenage boys do. Then again, most teenage boys grow out of such solipsism as they age and become men. Unfortunately this fellow's maturation has been retarded it would seem. And truthfully his entire diatribe amounted to absolutely nothing of substance. It was the cyber equivalent of a child stamping his feet and throwing a tantrum. Who can respect that? Not me.

*Oh, and as for networks "respecting their customers", well FX did exactly that by renewing The Strain for a fourth season. They were seriously considering cancelling it altogether but they decided to respect the fans and give them closure to the story. Guess what, it was a shitty season and the series ended horribly. I highly doubt FX made a profit from that final season, that's how bad it was. And I say this as a loyal viewer of that show. I initially loved it. It started out awesome! But the final season was a total failure and that was the fault of the writers and producers (i.e. people like Joe Mallozzi). The writers had plenty of notice that this was to be the final season and instead of using that time wisely and "respecting the fans" they basically shit all over us. This is not the fault of the FX network. They did exactly what you suggested when it comes to "respecting the customers" in lieu of "maximizing profits". And look where it got them. A kick in the ass. Yay.

 

[Joelist]

I have to agree with PG here. Dark Matter got rightly canned. Even though it had some decent acting in places the show as a whole was unfocused and once the initial mystery regarding the identity of the crew was finished the plot just seemed to drift. Plus it cost more to produce than it yielded in revenue.

Killjoys on the other hand may have had some spotty writing in places but it is reasonably well acted, has an actual overall arc that has some interest and costs less to produce than it yields in revenue. So Killjoys getting the renewal and Dark Matter getting canned was not surprising and also not the wrong decision.

 

[Overmind One]

I have to agree with PG here. Dark Matter got rightly canned. Even though it had some decent acting in places the show as a whole was unfocused and once the initial mystery regarding the identity of the crew was finished the plot just seemed to drift. Plus it cost more to produce than it yielded in revenue.

Killjoys on the other hand may have had some spotty writing in places but it is reasonably well acted, has an actual overall arc that has some interest and costs less to produce than it yields in revenue. So Killjoys getting the renewal and Dark Matter getting canned was not surprising and also not the wrong decision.

Right. They needed to work the slow reveals and they blew it in the second season. I was okay with 4 until he became some Ninja Prince, and I was cool with 2 until she became The Bionic Woman. 6 was a crooked cop...why did they have to do that? They should have made the premise a mystery and done little reveals, and not those particular reveals. It was like they were making it up as they went along.

 

[heisenberg]

That doesn't make sense. Killjoys is doing just fine within the parameters that SyFy uses for airing shows. What makes KJ any different from DM other than the fact that they manage to produce it for cheaper? That's the whole point of business, to maximize profits. The producers of KJ have managed to give SyFy a show that is affordable to air. This is Business 101. Obviously Mallozzi wasn't able to do that with DM. If Joe Mallozzi isn't business savvy enough when it comes to budgeting his production that's on him, not SyFy. They're paying him to deliver a product for a reasonable amount of money and they have realized that the return on investment is not worth it for them when it comes to DM. There's nothing wrong with that kind of business decision, in fact, it's how intelligent businesses are run. And it has f*ck all to do with "disrespecting their customers". Dark Matter was not some great scifi classic that had generations of fans over the decades. It was a mediocre show that didn't really go anywhere for three seasons. Three. SyFy respected their customers by giving this show three seasons. That was more than fair. There is no great loss here. And there is no reason to cry and blame SyFy for dropping the ball this time. They didn't. Mallozzi did.

Now I don't exactly appreciate being put in the spot of defending SyFy as it has some major flaws and is in many respects a shitty network. But I'm not going to bash them for making a sound business decision this time around. Would you rather they opened the financial flood gates and did for Dark Matter exactly what Netflix is doing for Star Trek Discovery? Yeah, because that's not going to come back and bite Netflix in the ass, lol.

Now stop defending this "Jake" twat simply because he's an Aussie. He's a whining man-child who likes the sound of his own voice. Most teenage boys do. Then again, most teenage boys grow out of such solipsism as they age and become men. Unfortunately this fellow's maturation has been retarded it would seem. And truthfully his entire diatribe amounted to absolutely nothing of substance. It was the cyber equivalent of a child stamping his feet and throwing a tantrum. Who can respect that? Not me.

*Oh, and as for networks "respecting their customers", well FX did exactly that by renewing The Strain for a fourth season. They were seriously considering cancelling it altogether but they decided to respect the fans and give them closure to the story. Guess what, it was a shitty season and the series ended horribly. I highly doubt FX made a profit from that final season, that's how bad it was. And I say this as a loyal viewer of that show. I initially loved it. It started out awesome! But the final season was a total failure and that was the fault of the writers and producers (i.e. people like Joe Mallozzi). The writers had plenty of notice that this was to be the final season and instead of using that time wisely and "respecting the fans" they basically shit all over us. This is not the fault of the FX network. They did exactly what you suggested when it comes to "respecting the customers" in lieu of "maximizing profits". And look where it got them. A kick in the ass. Yay.

I really don't have an attachment for DM but I was just stating the fact that Syfy has been notorious for cancelling good shows prematurely without giving it a good send off.
If you saw my from my post about SG-1, Syfy has been notorious for pulling the plug on stargate. Infact, MGM wanted to continue and keep stargate on tv but syfy had other ideas and cancelled it. I also remember that the SG-1 and SGA wasn't really doing that badly.


That's what people want. A conclusion to a storyline but we got nothing for Atlantis.

 

[PussyGalore]

I really don't have an attachment for DM but I was just stating the fact that Syfy has been notorious for cancelling good shows prematurely without giving it a good send off.
If you saw my from my post about SG-1, Syfy has been notorious for pulling the plug on stargate. Infact, MGM wanted to continue and keep stargate on tv but syfy had other ideas and cancelled it. I also remember that the SG-1 and SGA wasn't really doing that badly.


That's what people want. A conclusion to a storyline but we got nothing for Atlantis.

Like I said, I don't enjoy defending SyFy as it is in many, many ways a crappy network. And I do agree that SG-1 and SGA could have continued a little longer. But keep in mind that SyFy gave us 15 years of those shows. (I know SG-1 transferred over from Showtime early on but SyFy at least re-ran those episodes quite often.) 15 years (seasons) is a generous amount of time for any franchise to run. We shouldn't forget that.

And also keep in mind that while SyFy cancelled SGA they were operating under the belief that Wright and Cooper were bringing them a super cool Stargate replacement show that would feature guest stars from SG-1 and SGA. Wright and Cooper were jumping at the chance to produce SGU and they were the ones who agreed to kill SGA in favor of guaranteeing 2 full seasons of their new baby, SGU. So it was not solely SyFy to blame for the demise of Atlantis.

Obviously though the SG franchise became too expensive for SyFy to be connected with. Their decision to disconnect from the SG series had to be about the money. Otherwise why would they kill off something that was bringing them a positive cash flow? The same can be said about Dark Matter. But at least that show doesn't have the legions of fans that the SG franchise did. (I also think Mallozzi could have streamlined the production of DM to make it more economically appealing. This guy has years of producing experience and he knows exactly how failures occur so it's ridiculous for him to sit back and expect the show to sell itself. He had 3 seasons to make it work, which is more than most shows get these days.)

Don't get me wrong, I understand your disappointment here. I just think we can't rush to solely blame SyFy the way this "Jake" character does in his cheaply made YouTube video. He comes across as a petulant child who thinks swearing is a replacement for a logical argument. That approach simply does not work in this regard.

 

[PussyGalore]

Right. They needed to work the slow reveals and they blew it in the second season. I was okay with 4 until he became some Ninja Prince, and I was cool with 2 until she became The Bionic Woman. 6 was a crooked cop...why did they have to do that? They should have made the premise a mystery and done little reveals, and not those particular reveals. It was like they were making it up as they went along.

Too many uninteresting story lines with too many characters. Mallozzi should have cut that down and streamlined it.