Stargate to be rebooted with movie. FINALLY! From the original creator Roland Emmerich

[Bluce Ree]

There was no Jaffa or Goa'uld in the movie.

Yes, there were Jaffa. They stopped using the head gear later on in the series. They used them right from the pilot, if you recall.

As far as Goa'uld, we saw Ra. What we did not see is if he was a host or not. When the bomb went off, we see Ra lit up for a moment and he looked more like an Asgard from the silhouette than a human host, though. I'll give you that.


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[Overmind One]

Yes, there were Jaffa. They stopped using the head gear later on in the series. They used them right from the pilot, if you recall.

As far as Goa'uld, we saw Ra. What we did not see is if he was a host or not. When the bomb went off, we see Ra lit up for a moment and he looked more like an Asgard from the silhouette than a human host, though. I'll give you that.


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The name "Jaffa" is a BW creation. We saw "snakeheads" (no name for them given). We did not hear anything about Goa'uld, since the name of Ra was all that was given. This is what we saw of him (just captured from the bomb scene in my copy of the movie):

The problem with Brad's Stargate is that it has renamed/changed things which were in the movie differently. I like the original aliens, their malevolence and disdain for inferior creatures. I liked the hordes of the people of Abydos fighting in the desert. I like the original Egyptian-esque theme.

 

[Overmind One]

Sure


Sure, but just cause a person is a twat, does not ean they don't have SOME good ideas

Sure! I said I liked SG-1. Just that I love the movie concept better. It gives an opportunity to avert the creation of the Goa'uld, and reboots Stargate back to before there were Jaffa hosts for parasites or earth spaceships or the IOA.

Are you kidding me??
In the movie the, the whole thing was backed by General West, and as soon as the civvies worked out how to use the gate, O'neil took over. The only reason why they took Jackson was to get home!!
Methinks you need a rewatch brother

The focus was still the CIVILIAN discovery of the Stargate, its operation and the analyses of the data collected whilst on Abydos. The military always bankrolls big ticket science, but the story is in the civilian aspect. This was as much of a story of exploration and discovery and even relationships as it was about the stargate. But Daniel was the central character, not O'Neil. Dont need a rewatch to add to the 100 or so.

Not enough time to refute all that.

1: I dunno, not been in the military. SG-1's Jack acted more like a Private than any officer.
2: 2 ll's was still badass, but he hid it with humor. Badass? LOL. Angsty, yes...sometimes loud? Yes. He does "angry father" very well.
3: No, the thrust of SG-1 was exploration, not the Jaffa and their freedom. True, but that theme and thread became pervasive throughout SG-1 and beyond.
4: I don't know many "made up" system lord names, they are all pretty "Historic", but yeah, keeping to Egyptian would have been better (or possibly Meso-American as well) I like that idea.
5: I can't say how much I disagree with you here dude. To explore the galaxy, and expect tech not to advance is far more ludicrous IMHO. Oh, I get the trek-gate being annoying, but 5 years bro!! CMON! The tech advanced because Star trek was winding down and Brad knew it. You dont go from tanks and planes to Gliders and starships equipped with hyperdrive in 5 years, bro! Disagree if you want.
6: replicators are boring, mindless "evil" always is. HFR were at least interesting till they got overplayed. Yep.
7: Meh, why not? "greys" have been a icon for thousands of years, so yeah, why not? Not Stargate, not what the story was about.
8: Do you hate Q, the Douwd, The Organians? YES!
9: The movie NEVER said that Ra made the gate, if he could, why come by ship? I never said Ra made the gate. It wasnt told, which left it open to Brad to fill in that blank. What did Emmerich have in mind?
10: Meh.

The point I am making with all of this is that Emmerich needs to express HIS vision. We have seen Brad's/Glassener's vision... about 15 years of it. I want to see where the original creators wanted to take Stargate. I want to go back before the Treknology, before the Ancients and the Ori and the Goa'uld, before SG-1. I understand that Emmerich could be a cock and mess things up, but so what? No messup could be worse than the creation of Stargate Universe, so what the hell?

 

[Jim of WVa]

Sure


Sure, but just cause a person is a twat, does not ean they don't have SOME good idea's

Are you kidding me??
In the movie the, the whole thing was backed by General West, and as soon as the civvies worked out how to use the gate, O'neil took over. The only reason why they took Jackson was to get home!!
Methinks you need a rewatch brother


Not enough time to refute all that.
1: I dunno, not been in the military.
2: 2 ll's was still badass, but he hid it with humor.
3: No, the thrust of SG-1 was exploration, not the Jaffa and their freedom.
4: I don't know many "made up" system lord names, they are all pretty "Historic", but yeah, keeping to Egyptian would have been better (or possibly Meso-American as well)
5: I can't say how much I disagree with you here dude. To explore the galaxy, and expect tech not to advance is far more ludicrous IMHO. Oh, I get the trek-gate being annoying, but 5 years bro!!
6: replicators are boring, mindless "evil" always is. HFR were at least interesting till they got overplayed.
7: Meh, why not? "greys" have been a icon for thousands of years, so yeah, why not?
8: Do you hate Q, the Douwd, The Organian's?
9: The movie NEVER said that Ra made the gate, if he could, why come by ship?
10: Meh.

Sure!

How quickly would one expect Guglielmo Marconi (25 April 1874 – 20 July 1937) to understand how a transistor worked when presented with an electronic circuit that used one? A circuit that used a thousand? An Intel Quad Core 2 processor chip? Transistors were invented only ten years after Marconi died.

Technology should advance, but FTL is a bit much to expect from USAF spacecraft.

 

[Overmind One]

How quickly would one expect Guglielmo Marconi (25 April 1874 – 20 July 1937) to understand how a transistor worked when presented with an electronic circuit that used one? A circuit that used a thousand? An Intel Quad Core 2 processor chip? Transistors were invented only ten years after Marconi died.

Technology should advance, but FTL is a bit much to expect from USAF spacecraft.

Completely agree. This is why the Asgard were created, to jump the Taurii into Treknology and give them not only advanced weapons, but almost omnipotent weapons capable of destroying entire planets and races of beings. Suddenly, they end up with the complete knowledge and technology of the entire Asgard race, installed on a ship they should not even have? . That would be like humans giving all their technology and collected knowledge to children for safekeeping throughout eternity. A cleverly designed deus ex machina IMO.

 

[Gatefan1976]

How quickly would one expect Guglielmo Marconi (25 April 1874 – 20 July 1937) to understand how a transistor worked when presented with an electronic circuit that used one? A circuit that used a thousand? An Intel Quad Core 2 processor chip? Transistors were invented only ten years after Marconi died.

1901 first tests done
1904 commercial use of the technology.
3 years, count 'em 3 YEARS.

In addition, they were NOT going from a transistor to a intel processor, and such an argument is a fraud. Lets try something more contemporary shall we?
2002- Pentium M processor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M
2007- Xeon penryn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M

5 years.

Technology should advance, but FTL is a bit much to expect from USAF spacecraft.

The Prometheus was powered originally by an Al-kesh FTL drive, later a Asgard FTL, NOT Earth built ones. Even the Naquadah powersource was *copied* from detailed schematics provided by the Orbanians. I'm pretty darn sure that if you gave Da Vinci detailed schematics and the materials required, he could have made large scale steam engines without a problem. To date NO Earth vessel has had an entirely human built FTL drive.
--- merged: Sep 11, 2013 at 4:09 AM ---

Completely agree. This is why the Asgard were created,

No, the Asgard existed before then.

to jump the Taurii into Treknology and give them not only advanced weapons, but almost omnipotent weapons capable of destroying entire planets and races of beings.

WTF you smoking dude????
What are these "mystical weapons" you speak of?

Suddenly, they end up with the complete knowledge and technology of the entire Asgard race, installed on a ship they should not even have? . That would be like humans giving all their technology and collected knowledge to children for safekeeping throughout eternity.

Geez dude, it was the last episode of SG-1!!! It's not like they gave it to them in S5!

A cleverly designed deus ex machina IMO.

Of course it is, so what??[/quote]

 

[Gatefan1976]

Completely agree. This is why the Asgard were created,

No, the Asgard existed before then.

to jump the Taurii into Treknology and give them not only advanced weapons, but almost omnipotent weapons capable of destroying entire planets and races of beings.

WTF you smoking dude????
What are these "mystical weapons" of which you speak??

Suddenly, they end up with the complete knowledge and technology of the entire Asgard race, installed on a ship they should not even have? . That would be like humans giving all their technology and collected knowledge to children for safekeeping throughout eternity.

Geez dude, it was the last episode of SG-1!!! It's not like they gave it to them in S5!

A cleverly designed deus ex machina IMO.

Of course it is, so what??

 

[Bluce Ree]

The name "Jaffa" is a BW creation. We saw "snakeheads" (no name for them given). We did not hear anything about Goa'uld, since the name of Ra was all that was given. This is what we saw of him (just captured from the bomb scene in my copy of the movie):

View attachment 28529

The problem with Brad's Stargate is that it has renamed/changed things which were in the movie differently. I like the original aliens, their malevolence and disdain for inferior creatures. I liked the hordes of the people of Abydos fighting in the desert. I like the original Egyptian-esque theme.

The movie left things in ambiguity in terms of naming them. The "snakeheads" were never identified as "Jaffa" by name but they're the same characters both in the movie and the series.

As for Ra, no details were ever given. If you're saying TPTB on SG-1 invented Goa'uld and the "Jaffa" name, I can't argue because I don't know the specifics. However, the movie left these things in such ambiguity that, unless there's a sequel that contradicts or invalidates everything in the series, it's not accurate to say that the series drifted that far from the movie. One can say it drifted from Emmerich's original vision but that's moot since there was no sequel to further sketch out his vision.

Their malevolence and disdain for inferior creatures never changed. Humans are nothing but hosts and slaves to them. Egyptian mythology was always there and we were introduced to system lords who followed other mythologies much later on, like Yu and the Chinese mythology.

You captured Ra in that bomb scene a bit early. Just a little further into that scene I recall seeing the silhouette just before everything is destroyed.

 

[Backstep]

The movie left things in ambiguity in terms of naming them. The "snakeheads" were never identified as "Jaffa" by name but they're the same characters both in the movie and the series.

As for Ra, no details were ever given. If you're saying TPTB on SG-1 invented Goa'uld and the "Jaffa" name, I can't argue because I don't know the specifics. However, the movie left these things in such ambiguity that, unless there's a sequel that contradicts or invalidates everything in the series, it's not accurate to say that the series drifted that far from the movie. One can say it drifted from Emmerich's original vision but that's moot since there was no sequel to further sketch out his vision.

Their malevolence and disdain for inferior creatures never changed. Humans are nothing but hosts and slaves to them. Egyptian mythology was always there and we were introduced to system lords who followed other mythologies much later on, like Yu and the Chinese mythology.

You captured Ra in that bomb scene a bit early. Just a little further into that scene I recall seeing the silhouette just before everything is destroyed.

I recall the silhouette looking more like the Asgard.

 

[Overmind One]

No, the Asgard existed before then.

WTF you smoking dude????
What are these "mystical weapons" of which you speak??

Geez dude, it was the last episode of SG-1!!! It's not like they gave it to them in S5!

Of course it is, so what??

The weapon that killed the Ori, the beam weapons on the earth ships, naqueda enhanced nukes, these weapons are even more powerful than those on the USS Enterprise and Trek is set in the 23rd century. As far as the Asgard, they were brought into the show to introduce Treknology and other advancements which would not lend themselves to mere "discovery". Overlay their appearance in SG- to the timeline of the Trek series being aired up to that point and then things become obvious.

 

[Jim of WVa]

1901 first tests done
1904 commercial use of the technology.
3 years, count 'em 3 YEARS.

From the OM1 school of history? Transistors were invented in 1947.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor

 

[shavedape]

What...that Emmerich has been writing crap since ID4? Perhaps...but he created Stargate. Brad Wright et al created something related to Stargate, not a continuation of the original, as its creator intended. That is the point I am making.


There was no Jaffa or Goa'uld in the movie. Brad made them both up, and he is the one who changed the original aliens in the movie to parasites. The Jaffa were also a Brad Wright creation. The snakeheads were humans. Also, Abydos was in a different GALAXY...not in the Milky Way. Brad changed all of that. He filled in the blanks with his own ideas, and changed the direction of the show from one of exploration and science (backed by the military) to primarily military with a peppering of civilian input. For me, this detracted from the movie greatly. Why?

1. The military does NOT have brilliant minds like Sam Carter, anywhere. All the brains are civilian, as is the source of tech and equipment. Perhaps classified, but always civilian.
2. The Jack O'Neil (one "l") is a badass USAF Colonel with experience in Special Forces and in the Stargate movie he is 100% badass, all about his orders (like it should be). Jack O'Neill (with two "l"s in SG-1) was a bit too lazy with his military decorum, and came off as ANYTHING but a badass. Too much wisecracking IMO.
3. The Jaffa and their quest for freedom was hokey and took away from the main story which was studying the Stargate and those who built them.
4. The veering completely away from Egyptian mythology (except for the names of the System Lords which Brad made up as well) into this whole Goa'uld hierarchy thing is not in the movie.
5. Starting with Season 6 and the introduction of the earth ship Prometheus, SG-1 officially jumped the shark. Office of Homeworld Security? Really?
6. The Replicators.
7. The Asgard.
8. The Ori (any "ascended beings")
9. The Ancients being the creators of the Stargate instead of the original aliens shown in the movie.
10. The later ships with beaming and energy weapons

Having said all that, I still loved SG-1 and I still like it today. But I want to see where Emmerich wanted to take HIS creation.

This ^

 

[Gatefan1976]

The weapon that killed the Ori,

Made by an Ori enhanced Jackson using plans from a descended Ancient *specifically* for the purpose of destroying advanced beings.

the beam weapons on the earth ships,

Never saw one of em take out a planet, in fact if you compare the Asgard beam weapons to TNG phasers, they suck.

naqueda enhanced nukes,

An Idea they had straight from TMP.

these weapons are even more powerful than those on the USS Enterprise and Trek is set in the 23rd century.

There is NO supporting evidence for that statement. By the time of ST:TOS weapons like nukes are totally outdated by things like proton torpedo's using a Matter/Anti-matter charge, and have not seen space use since the first Earth/Romulan war.

As far as the Asgard, they were brought into the show to introduce Treknology and other advancements which would not lend themselves to mere "discovery".

Not originally, did they become that? Sure.

Overlay their appearance in SG- to the timeline of the Trek series being aired up to that point and then things become obvious.

So what?

 

[Overmind One]

Made by an Ori enhanced Jackson using plans from a descended Ancient *specifically* for the purpose of destroying advanced beings.

Never saw one of em take out a planet, in fact if you compare the Asgard beam weapons to TNG phasers, they suck.

An Idea they had straight from TMP.

There is NO supporting evidence for that statement. By the time of ST:TOS weapons like nukes are totally outdated by things like proton torpedo's using a Matter/Anti-matter charge, and have not seen space use since the first Earth/Romulan war.

Not originally, did they become that? Sure.

So what?

Defend defend defend...

Of course Brad created a little construct to justify adding in spaceships and beam weapons and transporters and warp drive...er...Hyperspace to Stargate. Im saying it has nothing to do with Stargate and was added for the same reason SGU was created: to capture the orphaned Star Trek audience. SGU was created to capture the orphaned NuBSG audience. If you cant see that, its okay. But using Brad canon to justify Brad's Stargate is just...

 

[Gatefan1976]

From the OM1 school of history? Transistors were invented in 1947.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor

Dude, the inventor you were going on about died 10 years before the invention of the transistor, so I used one of his *tech appropriate* inventions, the wireless, for that timeframe.
Context Jim, context.

As for Transistors, Made in 1947, commercial use in 1953 and sold in your car as an upgrade in 1956. You of all people should know that once a new tech is invented, refinement is a much faster process.

 

[shavedape]

So what?

Because it was Stargate, not Star Trek. It was a cynical, blatant attempt to steal directly from ST. BW rubber stamped the outright theft of ST tech to use in his shows.

And no, there's nothing wrong with being derivative if it's done cleverly and isn't a blatant rip off, but that clearly isn't the case here. There was nothing respectful about how BW did it. He just picked up the ST ideas and plopped them into the various SG series.

In short -- Eff BW!

 

[Gatefan1976]

Defend defend defend...

If you can get "defend" out of "so what", your stretching dude

Of course Brad created a little construct to justify adding in spaceships and beam weapons and transporters and warp drive...er...Hyperspace to Stargate. Im saying it has nothing to do with Stargate and was added for the same reason SGU was created: to capture the orphaned Star Trek audience. SGU was created to capture the orphaned NuBSG audience. If you cant see that, its okay. But using Brad canon to justify Brad's Stargate is just...

I see it, my question remains, So what?
Stargate has ALWAYS had spaceships in it, did it "loose" something with the introduction of human spaceships? Sure, I'll concede that point, no problems. Were there "ulterior motives" to their introduction? Sure.
In the end, so what?

 

[Bluce Ree]

Defend defend defend...

Of course Brad created a little construct to justify adding in spaceships and beam weapons and transporters and warp drive...er...Hyperspace to Stargate. Im saying it has nothing to do with Stargate and was added for the same reason SGU was created: to capture the orphaned Star Trek audience. SGU was created to capture the orphaned NuBSG audience. If you cant see that, its okay. But using Brad canon to justify Brad's Stargate is just...

View attachment 28530

Hyperspace and warp drive are completely different. More sci-fi stories have employed hyperspace travel than warped space travel.

SG was notorious for stealing stories from other shows, that was no secret. I wouldn't put too much stock in them being all about Trek. The relations they had with their alien allies and internal political struggles back on Earth were more akin to Babylon 5 than ST.

I agree about SGU, although I dunno why they would waste their time trying to emulate a pseudo-scifi emo show that tanked quite spectacularly.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Because it was Stargate, not Star Trek. It was a cynical, blatant attempt to steal directly from ST. BW rubber stamped the outright theft of ST tech to use in his shows.

And no, there's nothing wrong with being derivative if it's done cleverly and isn't a blatant rip off, but that clearly isn't the case here. There was nothing respectful about how BW did it. He just picked up the ST ideas and plopped them into the various SG series.

In short -- Eff BW!

So what?
Trek "ripped off" Asimov's Jump Drives, and "lasers" have been a scifi staple for even longer.
So what?
What are you looking for Artisic integrity out of the television industry??

 

[Overmind One]

If you can get "defend" out of "so what", your stretching dude


I see it, my question remains, So what?
Stargate has ALWAYS had spaceships in it, did it "lose" something with the introduction of human spaceships? Sure, I'll concede that point, no problems. Were there "ulterior motives" to their introduction? Sure.
In the end, so what?

Bolded in red...YES. It lost all resemblence to Stargate, and became Star Trek with stargates. We are talking 2004 earth with intergalactic starships equipped with hyperdrive and beam weapons and transporters. All "Top Seekrit" of course. With such tech, it would make all earth military obsolete (including the USAF). Why werent there Russians or Chinese on these ships? If the US had such tech, it could simply beam bombs into capitals of enemy nations, or beam gold out of treasuries, or "disappear" people by simply beaming them up into the ship. It could destroy submarines whilst submerged...etc.

In the end, your argument is pretty much wasted, since I am not saying I did not like SG-1. I liked it, but Stargate lost a lot when it landed in Brad Wright's ample lap.