Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Overmind One]

THE whole movie is complete trash and her character just fits right in with the rest of this crap . Next movie is going to die anyway so it really does not matter what she says or what the fans say or what they do with her character which I was sure died in this last movie , guess not .
I am done with SW and ST ...

The bolded, you and me both. I am done with Star Trek after Nemesis. For me, it ended there for good. There really is no way to repair it as long as somebody like Kurtzman is controlling it's direction and message and "feel". It is now firmly in the generic space/action genre, and like most of those shows, it is as shallow as a rain puddle. And most pathetically, it is silly now. At least The Orville embraces it's intended silliness when it wants, but it can and has framed that silliness in an engaging story, episode by episode. Oh look, Discovery Season 2 will be episodic! What a surprise. .

Discovery is a wannabe Trek pretending to be another better show which pays homage to Trek, but isn't Star Trek. And it fails in every direction.

And Star Wars, it's just a reskin of what has already come before, only with the meat of the real Star Wars scooped out and replaced with SJW fake textured protein. JJ Abrams is good at making money for the studios, but everything he touches becomes a hollow (but shiny) shell which gets dull very quickly. A cheap knockoff artist.

 

[PussyGalore]

The bolded, you and me both. I am done with Star Trek after Nemesis. For me, it ended there for good. There really is no way to repair it as long as somebody like Kurtzman is controlling it's direction and message and "feel". It is now firmly in the generic space/action genre, and like most of those shows, it is as shallow as a rain puddle. And most pathetically, it is silly now. At least The Orville embraces it's intended silliness when it wants, but it can and has framed that silliness in an engaging story, episode by episode. Oh look, Discovery Season 2 will be episodic! What a surprise. .

Discovery is a wannabe Trek pretending to be another better show which pays homage to Trek, but isn't Star Trek. And it fails in every direction.

And Star Wars, it's just a reskin of what has already come before, only with the meat of the real Star Wars scooped out and replaced with SJW fake textured protein. JJ Abrams is good at making money for the studios, but everything he touches becomes a hollow (but shiny) shell which gets dull very quickly. A cheap knockoff artist.

Call me naive but what I don't understand is how these stories can get so incredibly screwed up. It's not like Kurtzman for ST and Johnson for SW (and Abrams for both) lacked source material. How hard is it to write a story that isn't a cluttered, angry, confused mess? How hard is it to write characters the established audience can relate to and like? The story and character templates for both already exist.

 

[Tripler]

 

[Overmind One]

HILARIOUS!​

 

[Overmind One]

Call me naive but what I don't understand is how these stories can get so incredibly screwed up. It's not like Kurtzman for ST and Johnson for SW (and Abrams for both) lacked source material. How hard is it to write a story that isn't a cluttered, angry, confused mess? How hard is it to write characters the established audience can relate to and like? The story and character templates for both already exist.

I think its because the new writers want to "make their mark". I see it all the time, where somebody takes something that already exists and then modifies it so they can take some credit for the "improvements". This is what JJ Abrams does. He did not invent the giant spherical moon-sized Death Star, but he did do the similar (but much bigger!) Starkiller Base, and it can destroy more planets than the Death Star. In Discovery, they didn't want to use boring warp drive, so they cribbed "spore drive" and dumped all the theoretical science about warping space for a giant blue tardigrade which tunes into a "mycelial network". Damn all the canon that comes after it which has no trace of this left. They try to "improve" on perfection instead of recognizing the mature and established standards of things that are enduring just because they want to be different and stamp their name on it and take credit. This has been going on as long as history record things. Caesars naming new months after themselves, religions invented that copied those before them, only with changes. Astronomers naming stars after themselves, biologists naming natural processes for themselves or their children, etc.

They have f**ked up both Star Trek and Star Wars permanently. But, we now have The Expanse and The Orville.

 

[PussyGalore]

I think its because the new writers want to "make their mark". I see it all the time, where somebody takes something that already exists and then modifies it so they can take some credit for the "improvements". This is what JJ Abrams does. He did not invent the giant spherical moon-sized Death Star, but he did do the similar (but much bigger!) Starkiller Base, and it can destroy more planets than the Death Star. In Discovery, they didn't want to use boring warp drive, so they cribbed "spore drive" and dumped all the theoretical science about warping space for a giant blue tardigrade which tunes into a "mycelial network". Damn all the canon that comes after it which has no trace of this left. They try to "improve" on perfection instead of recognizing the mature and established standards of things that are enduring just because they want to be different and stamp their name on it and take credit. This has been going on as long as history record things. Caesars naming new months after themselves, religions invented that copied those before them, only with changes. Astronomers naming stars after themselves, biologists naming natural processes for themselves or their children, etc.

They have f**ked up both Star Trek and Star Wars permanently. But, we now have The Expanse and The Orville.

Until Abrams or Kurtzman get a hold of them.

 

[PussyGalore]

Here's just one nugget of Rian Johnson's terrible, nonsensical writing mouthed by a terrible, nonsensical character that he created:

 

[Tripler]

 

[Overmind One]

Interesting, but there isn't anywhere in Star Wars where it is explained what scientific principles are used to enter hyperspace. They just "do". Much like the Force. Its in the movie and a major part of the lore, but nobody has laid out the rules or limitations. But magic is like that. At least Star Trek tried to explain how warp works, and we know it has limits. Even the magic Jeannie in I Dream of Jeannie, and sexy witch Samantha in Bewitched had limits. But Star Wars? Hell nah...a 3ft tall gnome can rain down fire using just his mind. And now Star Trek has interstellar mind melds with non-telepathic species. Magic!

 

[Tripler]

Just one of many vids pointing a huge finger at Kathleen Kennedy .

 

[Tripler]

 

[PussyGalore]

There's more than just the timing that's wrong with the SW franchise. And this guy got it wrong, Disney is doubling down on their stupidity. Does he really think IX is just going to walk away from all the crap that came before it? There's no way they can fix everything in just one movie.

Some of the stuff the guy in the video said made sense though, like how Kathleen Kennedy will probably get the boot in the near future. I'm sure the bigwigs at Disney are unsure of how to fire her without getting a backlash from the SJW crowd otherwise she would be gone by now.

 

[Tripler]

 

[Tripler]

OMG listen to the crap coming out of Ruin Jonstone !!! WTH is wrong with his head ! All he see's is mary sues like little angels dancing around his head like birds when you get clobbered in the skull . That attitude is why his film failed 100% !!! According to him , in episode 5 , Luke should have clobbered Darth Vader in there first meeting , just like his super mary poo did in his movie . What a twit ,,,

 

[PussyGalore]

OMG listen to the crap coming out of Ruin Jonstone !!! WTH is wrong with his head ! All he see's is mary sues like little angels dancing around his head like birds when you get clobbered in the skull . That attitude is why his film failed 100% !!! According to him , in episode 5 , Luke should have clobbered Darth Vader in there first meeting , just like his super mary poo did in his movie . What a twit ,,,

OMG, it's pathetic the way they instantly use the "everyone is a troll" defense. They don't allow for any legit criticism of the work. None, because Ruin Johnson is an infallible genius.

 

[Joelist]

The dumbest part is that to be honest The Last Jedi should have been childishly easy to make properly. Whether you think The Force Awakens was derivative or not it did establish three new characters (Rey, Finn and Kylo) and even set them all up perfectly for further development. All Rian Johnson had to do was continue this development and tell an interesting story.

Was Rey a bit of a Mary Sue in TFA? Yep, of course Luke was also a bit of a Gary Stu in the original Star Wars. The difference is that in The Empire Strikes Back Luke was tried, tested, failed some (and was called out by Yoda for his recklessness and such) and needed help to survive. Rey on the other hand became even more of a Mary Sue in The Last Jedi. No failures to learn from, no setbacks, no maturing to address identified character flaws.

Finn received no development at all and what was done to Kylo was almost bizarre. Kylo in TFA was interesting because he was immature and essentially untrained. He even lost a lightsaber fight he should have won because a) He went into it wounded and b) His lack of control. For part of The Last Jedi it looked like they were actually developing him as he seemed to be developing that missing control - then all of a sudden when Rey turns down his offer of co-galactic rule he flips out back to immaturity.

Even the story - the IDEA of centering the film around the Resistance fleeing the First Order was good - it was the execution that was cringeworthy. Oh, and if he REALLY wanted to throw a twist then instead of the lame ending (and the insulting treatment of the OT characters) have Rey ACCEPT Kylo's offer thinking she can do more good co-ruling the galaxy and the ending showing her (with Kylo's agreement) letting the rebels go. Then you have the rebels having to resolve a real conflict - is Rey light or dark? Do they have to kill her? If yes who can do this - who else do they have with Force awareness? See how it serves as a lead in?

 

[PussyGalore]

The dumbest part is that to be honest The Last Jedi should have been childishly easy to make properly. Whether you think The Force Awakens was derivative or not it did establish three new characters (Rey, Finn and Kylo) and even set them all up perfectly for further development. All Rian Johnson had to do was continue this development and tell an interesting story.

Was Rey a bit of a Mary Sue in TFA? Yep, of course Luke was also a bit of a Gary Stu in the original Star Wars. The difference is that in The Empire Strikes Back Luke was tried, tested, failed some (and was called out by Yoda for his recklessness and such) and needed help to survive. Rey on the other hand became even more of a Mary Sue in The Last Jedi. No failures to learn from, no setbacks, no maturing to address identified character flaws.

Finn received no development at all and what was done to Kylo was almost bizarre. Kylo in TFA was interesting because he was immature and essentially untrained. He even lost a lightsaber fight he should have won because a) He went into it wounded and b) His lack of control. For part of The Last Jedi it looked like they were actually developing him as he seemed to be developing that missing control - then all of a sudden when Rey turns down his offer of co-galactic rule he flips out back to immaturity.

Even the story - the IDEA of centering the film around the Resistance fleeing the First Order was good - it was the execution that was cringeworthy. Oh, and if he REALLY wanted to throw a twist then instead of the lame ending (and the insulting treatment of the OT characters) have Rey ACCEPT Kylo's offer thinking she can do more good co-ruling the galaxy and the ending showing her (with Kylo's agreement) letting the rebels go. Then you have the rebels having to resolve a real conflict - is Rey light or dark? Do they have to kill her? If yes who can do this - who else do they have with Force awareness? See how it serves as a lead in?

You're exactly right. Johnson's eschewing of the template that worked in the past basically allowed TLJ to become a mindless mess. I still cringe when I think of the peripatetic actions of the characters in TLJ. Poe, Finn, Rey -- they're all just thrashing about accomplishing nothing. It was a complete waste of what should have been the pivotal movie in the trilogy.

As you pointed out, the important climactic moment should have been between Rey and Kylo Ren; the moral dilemma posited for our hero as we, the viewers, are left on a cliff hanger until the next movie to find out if she ultimately triumphs. Instead Rey disappears from the fight and next thing we know she's magically finding the exact spot where the Rebels are buried on the planet and then moves some rocks with her Jedi powers to "save" them.

The bottom line is that Johnson is a terrible writer. What's worse is that he's arrogant about his inability to craft a simple, coherent story. His dismissal of any criticism as internet trolling proves that he's hopeless. It's sad that Disney, which knows how to successfully tell a basic good vs. bad story, allowed this guy to muck up such an important property as Star Wars. It's shocking really when you realize that Disney could have used the template from any of their cartoon princess stories to make TLJ a decent film. Seriously, those kid's cartoons contain all the basic "Hero's journey" elements that TLJ needed to be a decent film. It really is that simple.

 

[Tripler]

Guess she is having the last laugh. Contract extended till 2021

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...s-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653

Make sure to boycott everything star wars .

 

[PussyGalore]

Guess she is having the last laugh. Contract extended till 2021

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...s-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653

I thought for sure Disney would give her the boot because it's clearly the most logical step to take. But hey, if they're determined to destroy their investment then more power to them.


*How Disney investors can't be concerned about this is beyond me. I can only assume that the majority of publicly traded Disney shares are sold in index funds/mutual funds that contain thousands of other stocks so Disney gets diluted and when it performs poorly the other stocks help to soften the blow. That's literally the only explanation I can think of because nothing else makes sense.

 

[Overmind One]

I think that's what they want. They want to take everything down with the ship including all the legacy with it.

That can't be what they want. They just don't know that it is what they are going to get. Somebody has probably convinced a lever-puller that the fans are at fault, or it is "getting it's legs", or that the future producers will make the difference, or something like that. Somebody with the power to pull strings was convinced to pull them. But as Pussy pointed out, it's clearly the most logical step to take to fire her.