Star Trek Beyond: FIRST TRAILER

[heisenberg]

More than a few involved are concerned that they may have fracked up on this. I think the senses of the fans are right on point as far as what to expect in this new flick. And I am not buying that Pegg is just "going along with it" but is an actual Star Trek fan. His line in the film about the music Kirk was playing (the Beastie Boys) being a "good choice" already puts him on a shitlist. He is one of the writers! I am disappointed that they have decided to make Scotty a comedic character instead of a brilliant engineer. And Dr McCoy from Urban is right on point, but Dr McCoy spends more time standing around and tossing one-liners than being a doctor. And I do not even want to discuss Spock and Uhura or Sulu and Checkov

What do you think of the star trek enterprise theme song? It was used a theme song for New Horizons when it landed on pluto.

 

[Overmind One]

What do you think of the star trek enterprise theme song? It was used a theme song for New Horizons when it landed on pluto.

I did not like it because it had vocals. I think I have discussed this before. Star Trek themes do not have vocals. Fans hated the vocals. You don't remember that? I liked the song, but not as a Star Trek theme.

 

[YJ02]

I did not like it because it had vocals. I think I have discussed this before. Star Trek themes do not have vocals. Fans hated the vocals. You don't remember that? I liked the song, but not as a Star Trek theme.

did paramount sue NASA for using the song? or did (We) pay for it?

 

[Joelist]

They could have used this instead:

 

[Joelist]

It's upthread but I thought it deserved a new mention:

http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/j-j-abrams-apologizes-for-star-trek-into-darkness-again/

In light of the positive results of Lucasfilm bringing in Lawrence Kasdan (who knows Star Wars canon intimately) and sitting on Abrams to make sure The Force Awakens did not stray off the reservation, I am wondering what would have happened had Paramount gotten someone like Manny Coto and put him in the same role (overseeing the writing and direction to make sure it stayed relatively within canon)?

 

[Errant of Patha]

It's upthread but I thought it deserved a new mention:

http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/j-j-abrams-apologizes-for-star-trek-into-darkness-again/

In light of the positive results of Lucasfilm bringing in Lawrence Kasdan (who knows Star Wars canon intimately) and sitting on Abrams to make sure The Force Awakens did not stray off the reservation, I am wondering what would have happened had Paramount gotten someone like Manny Coto and put him in the same role (overseeing the writing and direction to make sure it stayed relatively within canon)?

The 09 movie strayed from jump street with the whole alt uni plot.

 

[Overmind One]

I predict major slippage in the numbers for Star Trek Beyond. Look at the ratio of likes to dislikes:

Simon Pegg has gone online playing the part of "I did not like the Star Trek trailer, and the movie is much better!", but I'm not buying it. He is acting as though he never saw the trailer beforehand, even though it was packaged and pushed out there to be shown just before the Star Wars premiere (in the commercials). The reaction was immediate: "OMG, that is terrible!" Even from Star Wars fans.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Amazing, even dumb star wars fans "get it".........................

 

[Overmind One]

Amazing, even dumb star wars fans "get it".........................

View attachment 32515

Yep...and I don't really think they are dumb. I consider myself a fan of it, if not a fully informed or rabid one. Many Star Wars fans at least respect Trek and watch it. But this Beyond thing is just...just not beyond being the butt of jokes and speculations long before the movie is to be released. :L)

There is not much time to edit/add to the movie since the release date is July 22 of this year. It already has too much of what it should not have, just from seeing it in the trailer. We all know that the actual sequence of events leading up to the swarmer thingies destroying the Enterprise is not only a few seconds long. Most likely those events suck up a significant part of the film, and probably where we will see Idris Rubberface.....er...Idris Elba IN rubberface (which means we never really see him at all). We know the Beasties are in the soundtrack. We know there is a dirtbike, and again a chain of events leading up to that dirtbike (sucking up some of the film again). I think that visually the film will probably be top notch.

I really hope they make another trailer before then, because the current one has started a shitstorm across Trekdom which will lead to greatly reduced interest (and thus revenue). I wish rebooted Trek had come to TV first, then gone back to the screen. JJ treated it as though it were a film franchise and it is not (not really). Star Wars IS a film franchise, and it made the transition to animated TV series perfectly for Rebels and The Clone Wars. The Star Wars universe is ideal for the setting of a TV series.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yep...and I don't really think they are dumb.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe you.
EVERY post you make on this issue, weather you realise it or not denigrates SW fans as "Inferior" to ST fans. Either wake up and own it, or STFU.

I consider myself a fan of it, if not a fully informed or rabid one.

You are a casual bystander of SW, who thinks that they can comment on space fantasy and use the rules of ST to do it.
You don't even know the rules of the game you are trying to play.

Many Star Wars fans at least respect Trek and watch it.

Cause SW fans have to "respect" trek...............
GTFO
Better yet, they can "only" respect Trek, they can't "understand" it.............

But this Beyond thing is just...just not beyond being the butt of jokes and speculations long before the movie is to be released. :L)

It's shit, not because of the beastie boys, or the action, or anything else. It's SHIT because ST hinges on reflecting the modern world and telling social stories, and this is -probably- going to be no more than Mission Impossible in space. It has no soul, no life, and no message.

There is not much time to edit/add to the movie since the release date is July 22 of this year.

Who cares?

It already has too much of what it should not have, just from seeing it in the trailer. We all know that the actual sequence of events leading up to the swarmer thingies destroying the Enterprise is not only a few seconds long. Most likely those events suck up a significant part of the film, and probably where we will see Idris Rubberface.....er...Idris Elba IN rubberface (which means we never really see him at all). We know the Beasties are in the soundtrack. We know there is a dirtbike, and again a chain of events leading up to that dirtbike (sucking up some of the film again). I think that visually the film will probably be top notch.

You keep talking about things "sucking up the film", what are they sucking up?

I really hope they make another trailer before then, because the current one has started a shitstorm across Trekdom which will lead to greatly reduced interest (and thus revenue).

I hope it dies in the ass, I hope no one ever takes Trek in this "direction" ever again and that the fans are loud and clear about it. This brainless tripe is not Trek, It's a flying A.U. leap into shitsville, and it can stay in the A.U., and never be mentioned again. I would rather watch a 24 hour loop tape of Nemesis that that shit because -despite- how bad the movie was, it -still- had a message buried under all the crap.

I wish rebooted Trek had come to TV first, then gone back to the screen.

Agreed.

JJ treated it as though it were a film franchise and it is not (not really).

He treated it like an Action movie, and quite frankly, M.I., Bond and F'n'F do it better.

Star Wars IS a film franchise, and it made the transition to animated TV series perfectly for Rebels and The Clone Wars. The Star Wars universe is ideal for the setting of a TV series.

It's excellent to transition to TV, I don't think it would have worked as well as ST did on the small screen.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe you.
EVERY post you make on this issue, weather you realise it or not denigrates SW fans as "Inferior" to ST fans. Either wake up and own it, or STFU.

It isn't the fans of Star Wars I think are dumb. It's Star Wars itself. Star Wars is simply not on the same footing as any science fiction franchise, and especially not Star Trek.

You are a casual bystander of SW, who thinks that they can comment on space fantasy and use the rules of ST to do it.
You don't even know the rules of the game you are trying to play.

Dude, there ARE NO RULES, and that is the problem with it for me. Space fantasy is like all fantasy and I damned well can comment on it and quite fluently I might add. I can define it to a tee. Children can do it, and it was written for them. Star Wars does not even try to have rules, and it does not need them really.

Cause SW fans have to "respect" trek...............
GTFO
Better yet, they can "only" respect Trek, they can't "understand" it.............

They have to respect it because there is a whole lot more of it, and it has been around much much longer. It isn't the Star Wars march that gets played by scientists at NASA when discoveries are made. But that was real Trek. This one is not Trek, and that new tune they have will never be played by a real Trek fan to represent Trek.

It's shit, not because of the beastie boys, or the action, or anything else. It's SHIT because ST hinges on reflecting the modern world and telling social stories, and this is -probably- going to be no more than Mission Impossible in space. It has no soul, no life, and no message.

You mean NuTrek, right? Then I agree. I think it sucks because it has dumped it's scientific core and dumbed down it's characters to immature fraternity-level standards and gone for tired tropes and derivative crap.

Who cares?

Trek fans care. This is the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek. Pretty friggin significant and a reason to care, dontcha think?

You keep talking about things "sucking up the film", what are they sucking up?

Read the sentence. They are sucking up the film with the dumb shit we saw in the trailer and a rubberfaced Idris Elba and dirtbikes and Beastie Boys and dumb jokes and crusty little turd creatures. The write-ups say that this story happens as they are "already in their 5-year mission". Really? They need to show us.

I hope it dies in the ass, I hope no one ever takes Trek in this "direction" ever again and that the fans are loud and clear about it. This brainless tripe is not Trek, It's a flying A.U. leap into shitsville, and it can stay in the A.U., and never be mentioned again. I would rather watch a 24 hour loop tape of Nemesis that that shit because -despite- how bad the movie was, it -still- had a message buried under all the crap.

Totally agree. And I actually liked Nemesis! I did not like the whole Evil cloned Picard angle, but it was a cool movie.

He treated it like an Action movie, and quite frankly, M.I., Bond and F'n'F do it better.

Agree again.

It's excellent to transition to TV, I don't think it would have worked as well as ST did on the small screen.

Maybe, but Rebels and The Clone Wars won me over quickly. I could watch seasons of them.

 

[Gatefan1976]

It isn't the fans of Star Wars I think are dumb. It's Star Wars itself. Star Wars is simply not on the same footing as any science fiction franchise, and especially not Star Trek.

Oh for the love of god.
You spend posts and posts trying to prove that SW is not Scifi, then -try- to judge it by Scifi standards??
Might as well judge someone's intelligence by their social skills.

Dude, there ARE NO RULES, and that is the problem with it for me.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.
There ARE rules, rules that are internally consistent to the story. When Harry waves a wand and says "Wingardium Leviosa" it causes something to levitate, it does not cause someone's head to blow off, and no amount of magic will change that. "Expecto Patronus" is NOT "Avada Kadavra", no matter what.
You do not understand the rules.

Space fantasy is like all fantasy and I damned well can comment on it and quite fluently I might add.

Oh please.

I can define it to a tee. Children can do it, and it was written for them. Star Wars does not even try to have rules, and it does not need them really.

Definition is -not- understanding, and yes, SW has rules.
Sorry dude, but it does.

They have to respect it because there is a whole lot more of it, and it has been around much much longer.

1: No one HAS to respect anything, you might as well be saying "get off my lawn" and waving a cane.

2: 16 years? in which most of the time ST was off the air?
Doctor Who kicks the shit out of ST if that is your definition, especially original Who which existed first, and had a similar structure to a degree.

It isn't the Star Wars march that gets played by scientists at NASA when discoveries are made.

It's the Imperial March, why the hell WOULD they play it for discoveries??
Do you play the funeral dirge for a wedding?

But that was real Trek. This one is not Trek, and that new tune they have will never be played by a real Trek fan to represent Trek.

What tune? Sabotage?

You mean NuTrek, right? Then I agree. I think it sucks because it has dumped it's scientific core and dumbed down it's characters to immature fraternity-level standards and gone for tired tropes and derivative crap.

Unless Kirk prime snuck in some Beastie boys, I think it is pretty obvious what I am talking about.

Trek fans care. This is the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek. Pretty friggin significant and a reason to care, dontcha think?

I -am- a trek fan, and I expect ST 50th anni to die in the arse. I'm not happy about it, but that is what will happen.

Read the sentence. They are sucking up the film with the dumb shit we saw in the trailer and a rubberfaced Idris Elba and dirtbikes and Beastie Boys and dumb jokes and crusty little turd creatures. The write-ups say that this story happens as they are "already in their 5-year mission". Really? They need to show us.

The film will be -shit- period.
You may as well argue that the fart is taking up room in the toilet bowl.

Totally agree. And I actually liked Nemesis! I did not like the whole Evil cloned Picard angle, but it was a cool movie.

I needed a crappy TNG movie, and picking on generations is a little unfair being the first one and having to deal with Shatner again.

Agree again.

Of course.

Maybe, but Rebels and The Clone Wars won me over quickly. I could watch seasons of them.

Would you watch them without SW?
-that- is what I am talking about.

 

[Overmind One]

Oh for the love of god.
You spend posts and posts trying to prove that SW is not Scifi, then -try- to judge it by Scifi standards??
Might as well judge someone's intelligence by their social skills

Wellll....in case you hadn't noticed, this IS the Star Trek Beyond (first trailer) thread. I do not have to prove Star Wars is not scifi. There is no question there.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.
There ARE rules, rules that are internally consistent to the story. When Harry waves a wand and says "Wingardium Leviosa" it causes something to levitate, it does not cause someone's head to blow off, and no amount of magic will change that. "Expecto Patronus" is NOT "Avada Kadavra", no matter what.
You do not understand the rules.

Those are rules? Really? So why does Neville's feather explode when he says it? How come the House Elf can levitate things by snapping his finger but Harry has to use a wand? Rules are consistent. Sure, you can make a rule that the magic orb turns green when you have a Scooby Amulet, but red when you have a Googoo Ring. That means that somebody else should not be able to turn the orb green or red by just snapping your fingers. If they can, then new rules have to be made to explain that. It is not worth the argument. The magical world of Fantasy has no rules, generally speaking. Science fiction has rules. It is anchored in actual science of today, and you cannot just break the rules on a whim like transwarp beaming did. You cannot have entire planets being made into weapons and then entering star systems without throwing the entire system out of order. How would one power and "fly" a planet sized weapon and put it under intelligent control? Ridiculous. But it's okay in Star Wars and I have no problem with it.

Definition is -not- understanding, and yes, SW has rules.
Sorry dude, but it does.

If those rules were the ones established by the OT, then the latest movie broke a whole lot of them. Rey alone broke dozens, as did Finn and BB8 and the Starkiller weapon and every single person who used the Force (or a lightsaber). Jedis and Sith carry lightsabers...wait, no they don't...do they?

1: No one HAS to respect anything, you might as well be saying "get off my lawn" and waving a cane.

2: 16 years? in which most of the time ST was off the air?

Dude, Star Trek has ALWAYS been on the air, somewhere on earth, for 50 years. It went into syndication immediately after it's cancellation in 1969, and it's popularity brought the first movie, then the dozen that came later plus the four additional TV series and the cartoon. It turns 50 this year, not 16. Get real.

Doctor Who kicks the shit out of ST if that is your definition, especially original Who which existed first, and had a similar structure to a degree.

Doctor Who is not science fiction.

It's the Imperial March, why the hell WOULD they play it for discoveries??
Do you play the funeral dirge for a wedding?

You missed the point entirely.

What tune? Sabotage?

Unless Kirk prime snuck in some Beastie boys, I think it is pretty obvious what I am talking about.

I -am- a trek fan, and I expect ST 50th anni to die in the arse. I'm not happy about it, but that is what will happen.

The film will be -shit- period.
You may as well argue that the fart is taking up room in the toilet bowl.

Im not arguing here at all. I am on the Star Trek Beyond trailer thread hating on it. I did not say you were not a Trek fan. There is no opportunity for argument here. The trailer sucks, ergo I think the movie will also suck. That is just my opinion (as all my comments are). Where is the argument?

I needed a crappy TNG movie, and picking on generations is a little unfair being the first one and having to deal with Shatner again.

Of course.

Would you watch them without SW?
-that- is what I am talking about.

I love Star Wars! I am not a rabid fan of it, but I am familiar with all of the official canon works (except any OFFICIAL books which may have been released recently). But this thread is not about Star Wars, is it?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Wellll....in case you hadn't noticed, this IS the SAtar Trek Beyond (first trailer) thread.

Really?
You are -really- gonna pull that crap when we have derailed 3 threads already?
REALLY?

I do not have to prove Star Wars is not scifi. There is no question there.

There never was, but -someone- keeps bringing it up...........

Those are rules? Really? So why does Neville's feather explode when he says it?

Err, because he stuffed it up?
Why does the Excelsiors engines go tits up when Scotty removes a few screws?
Cause it got stuffed up.

How come the House Elf can levitate things by snapping his finger but Harry has to use a wand?

House elf magic is different to Wizard magic, it's EXPLAINED in the books, the books you have never read but form the basis of the movies.
Again, you just do not know what the hell you are talking about.
The books don't interest you, fine, the movies don't interest you, fine, but don't you dare use them as examples when you don't know what the hell you are talking about and expect anyone to take you seriously.
Wiki only gets you so far dude.

Rules are consistent.

And they are in fantasy. Magic breaks the rules of science all the time, but it -never- breaks storyline consistency.

Sure, you can make a rule that the magic orb turns green when you have a Scooby Amulet, but red when you have a Googoo Ring. That means that somebody else should not be able to turn the orb green or red by just snapping your fingers. If they can, then new rules have to be made to explain that. It is not worth the argument. The magical world of Fantasy has no rules, generally speaking.

Utter horseshit.
Ignorant, arrogant, horseshit.
Tell you what sunshine, give me an example of this bullshit in -ONE- fantasy universe, and I might -consider- this load of tripe.

Science fiction has rules. It is anchored in actual science of today, and you cannot just break the rules on a whim like transwarp beaming did.

Yes you can.
You can use a deflector dish (a shielding emitter) to make an "interplexing beacon" (a communications array) out of materials found on a ship that causality rules should not exist (but it was protected in a "bubble", or slingshot around the sun to go into time travel.
What bullshit.
the Science of trek -serves- the story, just as magic serves the story in fantasy. One is more believable, yes, no argument.

You cannot have entire planets being made into weapons and then entering star systems without throwing the entire system out of order.

No one did. The comparison between the Death Star and the star-killer are even shown on screen and the star killer -did not move-. If you want to pick on something, explain why a stationary weapon can shoot a beam at FTL speeds, and use a sun as a power source, draining it to the point where it stops solar fusion. THOSE are magical bullshit, no argument.

How would one power and "fly" a planet sized weapon and put it under intelligent control? Ridiculous. But it's okay in Star Wars and I have no problem with it.

They don't, real simple.

If those rules were the ones established by the OT, then the latest movie broke a whole lot of them. Rey alone broke dozens, as did Finn and BB8 and the Starkiller weapon and every single person who used the Force (or a lightsaber). Jedis and Sith carry lightsabers...wait, no they don't...do they?

The OT is -not- the only source of canon. 1-3 are, TCW and Rebels are, and are a handful of books. ANYONE can use a Lightsaber, Greivious used 4 of the damn things in Ep 2. A lightsabre however focusses the force for a force sensitive being, something Greivious could not do.
Jedi and Sith are both force users, and yes they do use lightsabers.
What is your point?

Dude, Star Trek has ALWAYS been on the air, somewhere on earth, for 50 years. It went into syndication immediately after it's cancellation in 1969, and it's popularity brought the first movie, then the dozen that came later plus the four additional TV series and the cartoon. It turns 50 this year, not 16. Get real.

Who has been on the air constantly, for longer, so what?
It's fan popularity didn't bring it to the big screen, the success of Star Wars did that.

Doctor Who is not science fiction.

What?
No seriously........ WHAT?

You missed the point entirely.

No, your point was to show that ST can inspire people to do stuff in space, become engineers and scientists, your example was so bad however to be joke worthy. The Imperial March is supposed to inspire fear and dread, not exactly the music you use when you make an amazing breakthrough, or what to inspire hope and confidence.

Im not arguing here at all. I am on the Star Trek Beyond trailer thread hating on it. I did not say you were not a Trek fan. There is no opportunity for argument here. The trailer sucks, ergo I think the movie will also suck. That is just my opinion (as all my comments are). Where is the argument?

Oh, we are back on topic now?
It will suck.

I love Star Wars! I am not a rabid fan of it, but I am familiar with all of the official canon works (except any OFFICIAL books which may have been released recently). But this thread is not about Star Wars, is it?

You derail threads with innuendo, then claim innocence when people call you on it. Go back and read some of the arguments you have had with me, or Jim, or Yong, and you will find that in more occasions that I am sure you are aware of, it is -you- who derail the cart. I don't think you mean to, I don't even think you are aware of it most of the time, but other people are, and they notice it.

 

[Overmind One]

Really?
You are -really- gonna pull that crap when we have derailed 3 threads already?
REALLY?

Those threads were fixed.

Err, because he stuffed it up?
Why does the Excelsiors engines go tits up when Scotty removes a few screws?
Cause it got stuffed up.

They were isolinear chips containing gigaquads of information for the Excelsior computer core, not screws. The better question would have been "what happened to Starfleet's transwarp drive technology?"

House elf magic is different to Wizard magic, it's EXPLAINED in the books, the books you have never read but form the basis of the movies.
Again, you just do not know what the hell you are talking about.

I am NOT going to read a book just to find out the rules of House Elf magic or anything I did not see in the movies, all of which I love and have seen multiple times each. and are in my HD collection.

The books don't interest you, fine, the movies don't interest you, fine, but don't you dare use them as examples when you don't know what the hell you are talking about and expect anyone to take you seriously.
Wiki only gets you so far dude.

Where did you get the idea I did not like Harry Potter movies? I love them. More than Star Wars.

And they are in fantasy. Magic breaks the rules of science all the time, but it -never- breaks storyline consistency.

My argument regarding science and magic is that they are totally, completely UNRELATED.

No one did. The comparison between the Death Star and the star-killer are even shown on screen and the star killer -did not move-. If you want to pick on something, explain why a stationary weapon can shoot a beam at FTL speeds, and use a sun as a power source, draining it to the point where it stops solar fusion. THOSE are magical bullshit, no argument.

True, the planet did not move. What bothered me most was not the Starkiller or even it's weapon, but the fact that nobody in the Rebel force seemed to be aware of it until it was a threat. How could they NOT be aware of it? How did they build it, even in 30 years?

The OT is -not- the only source of canon. 1-3 are, TCW and Rebels are, and are a handful of books. ANYONE can use a Lightsaber, Greivious used 4 of the damn things in Ep 2. A lightsabre however focusses the force for a force sensitive being, something Greivious could not do.
Jedi and Sith are both force users, and yes they do use lightsabers.
What is your point?

I will save that for the Star Wars thread.

Who has been on the air constantly, for longer, so what?
It's fan popularity didn't bring it to the big screen, the success of Star Wars did that.

BAHAHA! That's what you think? Mkay.

What?
No seriously........ WHAT?

I repeat: Doctor Who is NOT science fiction. Seriously, you do not know that? Really? It has some science within it, but it is squarely and unambiguously in the Fantasy genre. Lets make a thread, and involve Joelist in it since he is a huge Doctor fan. I doubt he will argue that. EDIT: Here is that thread

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/thr...fantasy-or-science-fiction.28202/#post-896296

No, your point was to show that ST can inspire people to do stuff in space, become engineers and scientists, your example was so bad however to be joke worthy. The Imperial March is supposed to inspire fear and dread, not exactly the music you use when you make an amazing breakthrough, or what to inspire hope and confidence.

That is the point of all science fiction (the bolded). But the order is usually that science inspires science fiction. As the tenets of science turn the science fiction into science fact, the goalposts move forward again. Fantasy never leads to real life because it can't. That is not a bad thing but it is why the two are so different. There is plenty of fantasy in Star Trek which will never be reality. However there is (was) science which became reality. Lots of it. There is nothing in Star Wars which will ever become reality. That is a major difference.

Oh, we are back on topic now?
It will suck.

Yes, it will definitely suck.

You derail threads with innuendo, then claim innocence when people call you on it. Go back and read some of the arguments you have had with me, or Jim, or Yong, and you will find that in more occasions that I am sure you are aware of, it is -you- who derail the cart. I don't think you mean to, I don't even think you are aware of it most of the time, but other people are, and they notice it.

When people call me on it, I fix it by breaking out new threads and moving the derailed comments into them. And please do not presume to speak for anyone else here. They communicate with me directly. Jim derails more threads here than I do.

Star Trek Beyond will suck. But I'm still shaking my head about your Doctor Who comment....making a new thread on that now.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Those threads were fixed.

Yes, they were, but the point is that they -had- to get fixed at all.
Ya feel me?

They were isolinear chips containing gigaquads of information for the Excelsior computer core, not screws.

Yes, I know what they were.

The better question would have been "what happened to Starfleet's transwarp drive technology?"

Yes, it is a good question.

I am NOT going to read a book just to find out the rules of House Elf magic or anything I did not see in the movies, all of which I love and have seen multiple times each. and are in my HD collection.

But you are making specific statements on something asked and answered in the source materiel, and trying to use it as a fault, when in fact, there is no fault.

Where did you get the idea I did not like Harry Potter movies? I love them. More than Star Wars.

Because you are making arguments about them with stuff that is even explained in the movies, and you are not really a big fantasy fan?
If you love em, fine.

My argument regarding science and magic is that they are totally, completely UNRELATED.

No, no, no. That is a separate point to the one you made (or at least appeared to make.) You said magic does not follow rules, and it does, it -always- does, hence the Harry Potter comments from me. You are moving the goalposts again.

True, the planet did not move. What bothered me most was not the Starkiller or even it's weapon, but the fact that nobody in the Rebel force seemed to be aware of it until it was a threat. How could they NOT be aware of it? How did they build it, even in 30 years?

Again, that's not what you said dude!!
Who would expect anyone to make a FTL laser weapon that can blow up multiple planets in a single barrage and uses a sun as a power source?
The whole notion is preposterous!!

I will save that for the Star Wars thread.

Cool, but you skipped a whole section as well...............

BAHAHA! That's what you think? Mkay.

Ahh.............. yeah?

When the original television series was cancelled in 1969, Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry lobbied Paramount to continue the franchise through a film. The success of the series in syndication convinced the studio to begin work on a feature film in 1975. A series of writers attempted to craft a suitably epic script, but the attempts did not satisfy Paramount, so the studio scrapped the project in 1977. Paramount instead planned on returning the franchise to its roots with a new television series, Star Trek: Phase II. The box office success of Close Encounters of the Third Kind convinced Paramount that science fiction films other than Star Wars could do well at the box office, so the studio cancelled production of Phase II and resumed its attempts at making a Star Trek film. In 1978, Paramount assembled the largest press conference held at the studio since the 1950s to announce that double Academy Award–winning director Robert Wise would direct a $15 million film adaptation of the television series.

Yes, Gene -wanted- to make movies, but it was not until the success of Star Wars, then Close encounters that convinced paramount to give it a chance.
So, YES, that's exactly what I think.

I repeat: Doctor Who is NOT science fiction. Seriously, you do not know that? Really? It has some science within it, but it is squarely and unambiguously in the Fantasy genre. Lets make a thread, and involve Joelist in it since he is a huge Doctor fan. I doubt he will argue that. EDIT: Here is that thread
http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/thr...fantasy-or-science-fiction.28202/#post-896296

OK.

That is the point of all science fiction (the bolded). But the order is usually that science inspires science fiction. As the tenets of science turn the science fiction into science fact, the goalposts move forward again. Fantasy never leads to real life because it can't. That is not a bad thing but it is why the two are so different. There is plenty of fantasy in Star Trek which will never be reality. However there is (was) science which became reality. Lots of it. There is nothing in Star Wars which will ever become reality. That is a major difference.

Darpa's "Lukes toys", look them up.

Yes, it will definitely suck.

Yep.

When people call me on it, I fix it by breaking out new threads and moving the derailed comments into them. And please do not presume to speak for anyone else here. They communicate with me directly. Jim derails more threads here than I do.

Jim does it on purpose, I already said you tend not to notice you are doing it.

Star Trek Beyond will suck. But I'm still shaking my head about your Doctor Who comment....making a new thread on that now.

OK.

 

[Overmind One]

 

[YJ02]

....this is -probably- going to be no more than Mission Impossible in space. It has no soul, no life, and no message.

that is EXACTLY what this nuTrek is

Trek has always had action,but it was a component of the episode or movie. in nuTrek, action is the main thing going on over and above anything else

here is a 'quick list' of comparison (imo):

old trek components: nuTrek:
a contemporary social or political issue set in the Trek world action/explosions/ seemingly mass killings
science or medical issues effecting the crew raucous male behavior/showmanship/machismo
dialogue:thoughtful character discussions/monologues sex
action
comedy/comedic quips (ala McCoy or Scotty)
sexual tension/implied sex


-----------------what the hell?!
I made two distinct columns--why did it "merge" after posting?

the items in red are my nuTrek impressions

 

[YJ02]

It isn't the fans of Star Wars I think are dumb. It's Star Wars itself. Star Wars is simply not on the same footing as any science fiction franchise, and especially not Star Trek.



Dude, there ARE NO RULES, and that is the problem with it for me. Space fantasy is like all fantasy and I damned well can comment on it and quite fluently I might add. I can define it to a tee. Children can do it, and it was written for them. Star Wars does not even try to have rules, and it does not need them really.



They have to respect it because there is a whole lot more of it, and it has been around much much longer. It isn't the Star Wars march that gets played by scientists at NASA when discoveries are made. But that was real Trek. This one is not Trek, and that new tune they have will never be played by a real Trek fan to represent Trek.



You mean NuTrek, right? Then I agree. I think it sucks because it has dumped it's scientific core and dumbed down it's characters to immature fraternity-level standards and gone for tired tropes and derivative crap.



Trek fans care. This is the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek. Pretty friggin significant and a reason to care, dontcha think?



Read the sentence. They are sucking up the film with the dumb shit we saw in the trailer and a rubberfaced Idris Elba and dirtbikes and Beastie Boys and dumb jokes and crusty little turd creatures. The write-ups say that this story happens as they are "already in their 5-year mission". Really? They need to show us.



Totally agree. And I actually liked Nemesis! I did not like the whole Evil cloned Picard angle, but it was a cool movie.



Agree again.



Maybe, but Rebels and The Clone Wars won me over quickly. I could watch seasons of them.

Really?
You are -really- gonna pull that crap when we have derailed 3 threads already?
REALLY?

There never was, but -someone- keeps bringing it up...........


Err, because he stuffed it up?
Why does the Excelsiors engines go tits up when Scotty removes a few screws?
Cause it got stuffed up.


House elf magic is different to Wizard magic, it's EXPLAINED in the books, the books you have never read but form the basis of the movies.
Again, you just do not know what the hell you are talking about.
The books don't interest you, fine, the movies don't interest you, fine, but don't you dare use them as examples when you don't know what the hell you are talking about and expect anyone to take you seriously.
Wiki only gets you so far dude.


And they are in fantasy. Magic breaks the rules of science all the time, but it -never- breaks storyline consistency.

Utter horseshit.
Ignorant, arrogant, horseshit.
Tell you what sunshine, give me an example of this bullshit in -ONE- fantasy universe, and I might -consider- this load of tripe.

Yes you can.
You can use a deflector dish (a shielding emitter) to make an "interplexing beacon" (a communications array) out of materials found on a ship that causality rules should not exist (but it was protected in a "bubble", or slingshot around the sun to go into time travel.
What bullshit.
the Science of trek -serves- the story, just as magic serves the story in fantasy. One is more believable, yes, no argument.

No one did. The comparison between the Death Star and the star-killer are even shown on screen and the star killer -did not move-. If you want to pick on something, explain why a stationary weapon can shoot a beam at FTL speeds, and use a sun as a power source, draining it to the point where it stops solar fusion. THOSE are magical bullshit, no argument.

They don't, real simple.

The OT is -not- the only source of canon. 1-3 are, TCW and Rebels are, and are a handful of books. ANYONE can use a Lightsaber, Greivious used 4 of the damn things in Ep 2. A lightsabre however focusses the force for a force sensitive being, something Greivious could not do.
Jedi and Sith are both force users, and yes they do use lightsabers.
What is your point?


Who has been on the air constantly, for longer, so what?
It's fan popularity didn't bring it to the big screen, the success of Star Wars did that.


What?
No seriously........ WHAT?


No, your point was to show that ST can inspire people to do stuff in space, become engineers and scientists, your example was so bad however to be joke worthy. The Imperial March is supposed to inspire fear and dread, not exactly the music you use when you make an amazing breakthrough, or what to inspire hope and confidence.


Oh, we are back on topic now?
It will suck.


You derail threads with innuendo, then claim innocence when people call you on it. Go back and read some of the arguments you have had with me, or Jim, or Yong, and you will find that in more occasions that I am sure you are aware of, it is -you- who derail the cart. I don't think you mean to, I don't even think you are aware of it most of the time, but other people are, and they notice it.

Just watch this video and give it up

 

[Overmind One]

I just had a womderful thought. If Star Trek Beyond proves to be a mediocre showing. there might not be that fourth film. The wonderful thought was that SO WHAT! If it fails to be what they expect (it wont outright fail because it's the 50th Anniversary), they might not go with the fourth movie, and the only new Star Trek will be the (hopefully) real one on TV over at CBS All Access. The movies could get a long break, unless the TV show proves to be huge and then Paramount could reboot it again.