NASA project ARTEMIS and Marching to Mars

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I say we all pay for the preppers and far right wingers who have decided they do not want to live with the rest of Humanity to go to Mars. One way ticket? Excellent. Lets send the entire state of South Carolina, most of west Texas, all of Idaho and Montana and Wyoming too. Hell, they want pioneer living and a monoracial culture, let them have it!
 

Jim of WVa

Well Known GateFan

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Dammit, noooo! Now I'm lumped in with Limbaugh! :icon_lol:



I'm really curious to know if terraforming would truly be possible on Mars.

everyone knows I am not all "sciency" with things-though I am a great spectator fan of science

I read,a while back, an article that speculated-from an actual scientists' point of view, that a place like Mars that still has some type of atmosphere, could be terraformed

---and,interestingly enough,today when they said at the nasa mtg that Mars has a far more humid atmosphere then thought, it reminded me of this article when the writer said that to terra form, some type of atmosphere and a humid one would be required (dont remember why)

so,it went,as I remember, that one of the first "industries" that colonizers would need to set up after water,shelter and food growth, would be CO2 generators

as our manmade global warming ppl say, our CO2 emissions are warming our atmosphere, so too could we do so on Mars

The article didn't mention what would be used as fuel (wonder if mars has "natural gas" of any type? any burnable mineral?) only that in theory it could be done and probably wouldn't take too long (the number 60-75 yrs comes to mind) to begin to form a more "comfortable" climate for human occupation and eventually, breathable air

And then their is the ideas of domes, underground "bubbles", smaller more conventional constructions--think Mall of America, air tight and self contained, on MARS.

Also, something about if there is any type of microbial/bacterial life under the surface of Mars in that water, then releasing them-if they are the right type-could assist in this Co2 constructed atmosphere

Overall-this (Mars issues) is probably my favorite science attraction

---just don't ask me any details! :icon_e_surprised::icon_lol:
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
we went to the moon because the soviets had put up the first sat, put the first lifeform into space and put the first human in space.

the US and the West was afraid of soviet domination of earth from space

that was the motivation to get to the moon

when the chinese, russians or even india starts to actually begin to get serious about putting lasting things onto mars--with or without ppl-- you watch how serious the west gets about mars

we will be there in like 24 months

a year or so to put all the theories, mechanical and engineering ideas into a assembly line and then 9 months to get there.


if or when this happens, that company, MARS ONE, better have their tech and plans iron clad and copyrighted or else a govt entity will just lay claim to it--good of the nation and all that
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
we went to the moon because the soviets had put up the first sat, put the first lifeform into space and put the first human in space.

the US and the West was afraid of soviet domination of earth from space

that was the motivation to get to the moon

when the chinese, russians or even india starts to actually begin to get serious about putting lasting things onto mars--with or without ppl-- you watch how serious the west gets about mars

we will be there in like 24 months

a year or so to put all the theories, mechanical and engineering ideas into a assembly line and then 9 months to get there.


if or when this happens, that company, MARS ONE, better have their tech and plans iron clad and copyrighted or else a govt entity will just lay claim to it--good of the nation and all that

People worldwide need to see PEOPLE go there "again" :cool:. Without showing my position on this (you might guess), everything I have read about the technology we have now and what we had then just does not spell a successful MANNED moon mission. What is known about the Van Allen belts, the ionosphere temperatures and the alloys we used to build the rockets, and especially the problems being encountered in 2018 by other nations wanting to "repeat" our accomplishment. I want to see people from another nation go there, just to prove once and for all that it is possible with existing technology. ;)
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
just to prove once and for all that it is possible with existing technology.

no one is going to go there just to satisfy anyone's curiosity

there have to be definitive,clear cut motivations. of those, there are probably only 2

1-feelings of insecurity. as with the soviets, we(the US and west) were concerned about Soviet monopoly on space in the 50's

in turn they were afraid because of our advantage in nukes, they thought by dominating near earth orbit they could transcend that into strategic military use

so, unless someone goes to the moon for reasons of (and maybe china is doing this) 'trumping' american and western and russian monopoly of earth orbit by being further out on the moon and then somehow 'cashiering' that into a military or geo (actually global and orbital) political advantage, then we ain't going

2- very juicy economic reasons

if the moon's worth in mineral deposits makes it worth the while to develop them, no one is going to invest the money needed to develop the means to get gear there to exploit it and ship it back

but isn't the moon chuck filled with minerals, especially those in high demand by tech ('rare earth' minerals) industries? not sure but i recall reading about this a while back

-----one more potential reason i see, and IMO, far off from now, is just more space for humans to inhabit due to earth over population
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Van Allen belts

yes, i know about those, but like many things in nature, they are exploitable/passable

now when it comes to this i am almost nearly using quotes (because, i am me and non scientific consumer :) )

IMO though and given what I have read, limit of traverse through the belts, place where they re crossed and the shielding of the craft and personal suits made from materials and tech we have now would greatly minimize this danger

and, people have vastly over estimated the effects of radiation before-- the after math of Hiroshima and Chernobyl are two examples.

here is an excerpt from an article by an astro physicist from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillia...allen-belts-barrier-spaceflight/#5f2ec4306f8d


depending on the energy those particles deposit, the density of those particles, and the length of time you spend being exposed to them.

In the case of the Apollo missions, the solution was to minimize the second two factors. We can’t control the energy of those particles, though they can be large. The density of the Van Allen belts is well known (from sending uncrewed probes through them), and there are hotspots you can definitely avoid. In particular, the innermost belt is a rather tightly defined region, and it was possible to stay out of it for the trip to the Moon. The second belt is much larger, and harder to avoid, but there are still denser regions to avoid. For the Apollo trips, we wanted to send the astronauts through a sparse region of the belts, and to try and get through them quickly. This was necessary in any case; the crafts had to make it to the Moon in a reasonable amount of time, and the shorter the trip, the less exposure to all sorts of radiation the astronauts would get.


In the end, it seemed that these tactics worked; the on-board dose counters for the Apollo missions registered average radiation doses to the skin of the astronauts of 0.38 rad. This is about the same radiation dose as getting two CT scans of your head, or half the dose of a single chest CT scan; not too bad, though not something you should do every week.

Your brother is right that both the atmosphere and the Van Allen belts can be dangers to space exploration, but with careful observations, orbital maneuvering, and inventiveness, we’ve navigated our way beyond them many times. Hopefully, we'll continue to do so in the future many times more.



I am an Assistant Professor in Physics & Astronomy at Oberlin College. I received my Ph.D in 2014 from the University of Victoria, studying the interactions between galaxies in the nearby Universe. I have been running an outreach blog called Astroquizzical since 2013, w...



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I am an Assistant Professor in Physics & Astronomy: @Jillian_Scudder.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
yes, i know about those, but like many things in nature, they are exploitable/passable

now when it comes to this i am almost nearly using quotes (because, i am me and non scientific consumer :) )

IMO though and given what I have read, limit of traverse through the belts, place where they re crossed and the shielding of the craft and personal suits made from materials and tech we have now would greatly minimize this danger

and, people have vastly over estimated the effects of radiation before-- the after math of Hiroshima and Chernobyl are two examples.

here is an excerpt from an article by an astro physicist from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillia...allen-belts-barrier-spaceflight/#5f2ec4306f8d


depending on the energy those particles deposit, the density of those particles, and the length of time you spend being exposed to them.

In the case of the Apollo missions, the solution was to minimize the second two factors. We can’t control the energy of those particles, though they can be large. The density of the Van Allen belts is well known (from sending uncrewed probes through them), and there are hotspots you can definitely avoid. In particular, the innermost belt is a rather tightly defined region, and it was possible to stay out of it for the trip to the Moon. The second belt is much larger, and harder to avoid, but there are still denser regions to avoid. For the Apollo trips, we wanted to send the astronauts through a sparse region of the belts, and to try and get through them quickly. This was necessary in any case; the crafts had to make it to the Moon in a reasonable amount of time, and the shorter the trip, the less exposure to all sorts of radiation the astronauts would get.


In the end, it seemed that these tactics worked; the on-board dose counters for the Apollo missions registered average radiation doses to the skin of the astronauts of 0.38 rad. This is about the same radiation dose as getting two CT scans of your head, or half the dose of a single chest CT scan; not too bad, though not something you should do every week.

Your brother is right that both the atmosphere and the Van Allen belts can be dangers to space exploration, but with careful observations, orbital maneuvering, and inventiveness, we’ve navigated our way beyond them many times. Hopefully, we'll continue to do so in the future many times more.



I am an Assistant Professor in Physics & Astronomy at Oberlin College. I received my Ph.D in 2014 from the University of Victoria, studying the interactions between galaxies in the nearby Universe. I have been running an outreach blog called Astroquizzical since 2013, w...



MORE

I am an Assistant Professor in Physics & Astronomy: @Jillian_Scudder.

I want INDEPENDENT data from other non-NATO/non-beneficiary nations who attempt the mission. That means I will ignore any British, Australian, Indian or Japanese data. I want to see the datasets regarding radiation, I want to see what sort of suits they are required to create in order to be fully protected. I would love to see the Apollo landing sites, as filmed by ANOTHER nation. There are too many liars on the US government payroll.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
I want INDEPENDENT data from other non-NATO/non-beneficiary nations who attempt the mission. That means I will ignore any British, Australian, Indian or Japanese data. I want to see the datasets regarding radiation, I want to see what sort of suits they are required to create in order to be fully protected. I would love to see the Apollo landing sites, as filmed by ANOTHER nation. There are too many liars on the US government payroll.

well you are entitled to your opinion :)

problem is, by listing the countries you say you would not believe you have nearly wiped out any one who is anywhere near capable of doing this verification for you

its like asking a kindergartner to disprove a negative. Nearly no one else is capable of giving either the evidence of absence or absence of evidence that you require

"There are too many liars on the US government payroll"

Well, yes there are. But consider this-

how many people were involved in the mercury and apollo missions? thats the crews. the engineers, the designers, the control room people, etc,etc?

over all of those years--10's of thousands

how do you get that many people to keep a secret of the magnitude you suggest?

now look at the secrets that the US govt has been caught on. by comparison to moon mission numbers, very few people knew of things like WATERGATE, or the Gulf of Tonkin incident or that Iraq really did not have the type of WMDS we were made to believe they had.

but, the secrets or rather, knowledge that A SECRET EXISTED and therefore needed to be researched by a journalist or someone else, still got out

out of all the tens of thousands of people involved in apollo and mercury, not one who has said anything has been proven independently to be reliable.

-------------------------
now, on the other hand, isn't china building a near moon probe to scan and map the moons surface?

<< holy crap! while looking this up I see where the chinese just announced the landing of their probe 2 days ago!! >>

so they went to the dark side of the moon, does this mean they accept the fact that both the US and Russia (unmanned) have been to the light side?

(and maybe this success lends to some of their recent cockiness in other world events?)

https://www.apnews.com/c4dc6858a32b4b61bdbc6aebf5459a91
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
well you are entitled to your opinion :)

problem is, by listing the countries you say you would not believe you have nearly wiped out any one who is anywhere near capable of doing this verification for you

its like asking a kindergartner to disprove a negative. Nearly no one else is capable of giving either the evidence of absence or absence of evidence that you require

"There are too many liars on the US government payroll"

Well, yes there are. But consider this-

how many people were involved in the mercury and apollo missions? thats the crews. the engineers, the designers, the control room people, etc,etc?

over all of those years--10's of thousands

how do you get that many people to keep a secret of the magnitude you suggest?

now look at the secrets that the US govt has been caught on. by comparison to moon mission numbers, very few people knew of things like WATERGATE, or the Gulf of Tonkin incident or that Iraq really did not have the type of WMDS we were made to believe they had.

but, the secrets or rather, knowledge that A SECRET EXISTED and therefore needed to be researched by a journalist or someone else, still got out

out of all the tens of thousands of people involved in apollo and mercury, not one who has said anything has been proven independently to be reliable.

-------------------------
now, on the other hand, isn't china building a near moon probe to scan and map the moons surface?

<< holy crap! while looking this up I see where the chinese just announced the landing of their probe 2 days ago!! >>

so they went to the dark side of the moon, does this mean they accept the fact that both the US and Russia (unmanned) have been to the light side?

(and maybe this success lends to some of their recent cockiness in other world events?)

https://www.apnews.com/c4dc6858a32b4b61bdbc6aebf5459a91

"how do you get that many people to keep a secret of the magnitude you suggest?"

Classification. All it took for me to keep my mouth shut about those F117a stealth fighters I saw in Yuma in 1983 was the threat of treason for revealing them.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
the chinese have been there before, and they took pics:

The scientists also spotted traces of the previous Apollo mission in the images, said Yan Jun, chief application scientist for China's lunar exploration project.

https://web.archive.org/web/2013052...et.com/english/sci/2012-02/06/c_131393210.htm

in addition, the Soviet space intelligence service tracked apollo missions to and from the moon. they needed to know if they were losing or not.

 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
the chinese have been there before, and they took pics:

The scientists also spotted traces of the previous Apollo mission in the images, said Yan Jun, chief application scientist for China's lunar exploration project.

https://web.archive.org/web/2013052...et.com/english/sci/2012-02/06/c_131393210.htm

in addition, the Soviet space intelligence service tracked apollo missions to and from the moon. they needed to know if they were losing or not.

The entire site should be 100% intact, as there is no wind or erosion on the Moon. The footprints should be there as well as the lander platform and the flag that was planted there and any other equipment left behind.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
The entire site should be 100% intact, as there is no wind or erosion on the Moon. The footprints should be there as well as the lander platform and the flag that was planted there and any other equipment left behind.

well maybe the chinese will do us a solid and steer the rover they have up there now to the light side and snap some pics? :)
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
hey i included the twitter handle for that astro physicist

maybe you should give her a tweet?
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
hey i included the twitter handle for that astro physicist

maybe you should give her a tweet?

Twitter? Me? :hide;
 
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