Deep Space Nine: The only Star Trek series to end cleanly.

[Overmind One]

I'm at a red light laughing my head off with my windows rolled down reading this. The people next to me rolled their windows up and are looking away. LMAO!!!

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BAHAHAHA!

Quite a bit of it was episodic. The only part I found was serial to some degree was the Dominion war. However, except for a few milestone episodes where something major happened, the episodes during the Dominion war could be run in any order without losing your place in the events. It would be nearly impossible to run B5 in any order without completely confusing the entire story.

Very true, the bolded. It was entirely serialized from the start. But I did say that DS9 was loosely based on the core premise of Babylon 5, it certainly was nowhere close in terms of the depth of the story or the characters. Still, it made a good showing IMO. Avery Books was sorts of the guy who was human and wanted to be a wooden boy. But he had his moments. I thought some of the episodes with the Ferengi (particularly those with the Grand Nagas) were silly and could have been discarded. But pretty much all of the second half of season 6 and all of season 7 were serialized.

 

[shavedape]

BAHAHAHA!


Very true, the bolded. It was entirely serialized from the start. But I did say that DS9 was loosely based on the core premise of Babylon 5, it certainly was nowhere close in terms of the depth of the story or the characters. Still, it made a good showing IMO. Avery Books was sorts of the guy who was human and wanted to be a wooden boy. But he had his moments. I thought some of the episodes with the Ferengi (particularly those with the Grand Nagas) were silly and could have been discarded. But pretty much all of the second half of season 6 and all of season 7 were serialized.

Yes, I liked the comedic aspects of Quarks personality but when they expanded it to make everyone on Ferengi into a cartoon character it lost its appeal. They did the schtick with his mother and his brother and the Grand Nagas, etc. And as the show went on the gave Quark a heart of gold when in truth he started out at dark and conniving with bouts of humor. That took away from his appeal and made him less believable.

 

[YJ02]

And so did Deep Space Nine...DS9 was based loosely on the same core story as Babylon 5. There was even a lawsuit over it.

One of the issues-if I remember correctly (and I don't feel like "diving" back into that he said she said crap thats on the net)
J. Michael Strac was a contributing writer for Star Trek from time to time. He claimed that someone in the ST "camp" got a look at his ideas for what was to become B5, the ST gang turned him down knowing that he would want to much money and creative control. So he went to a brand new network-PTEN (which also gave us another "ok" sci fi show TIME TRAX.

And DS9 didn't have a "Mr Morden"-the "devils messenger" so to speak. IMO B5 had better character development then DS9 though I really enjoyed both shows

Its another "Star Trek vs Star Wars" argument-we shouldn't need to have to pick a side.

 

[Bluce Ree]

One of the issues-if I remember correctly (and I don't feel like "diving" back into that he said she said crap thats on the net)
J. Michael Strac was a contributing writer for Star Trek from time to time. He claimed that someone in the ST "camp" got a look at his ideas for what was to become B5, the ST gang turned him down knowing that he would want to much money and creative control. So he went to a brand new network-PTEN (which also gave us another "ok" sci fi show TIME TRAX.

And DS9 didn't have a "Mr Morden"-the "devils messenger" so to speak. IMO B5 had better character development then DS9 though I really enjoyed both shows

Its another "Star Trek vs Star Wars" argument-we shouldn't need to have to pick a side.

It isn't Star Trek vs Star Wars. We're not comparing franchises. We're comparing Dish Soap 9's soapineas and B5's non soapiness.


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[Jim of WVa]

Babylon 5 had interpersonal relationships but they were integral to the entire plot. They were dramatized but they didn't fall into being melodrama. There is a difference.

And the entire tone of Babylon 5 was more sinister than DS9 ever was (just the mention of Za'ha'dum' sent chills up my spine). It was actually gripping and intriguing. The characters rose above the plastic prosthetic makeup and became believable. The rubber faced "aliens" in DS9, well, not so much.

The alien prosthetics work on Babylon 5 were head and shoulders above any television show before or since. With time, the CGI work on B-5 has been exceeded, but the art of making believable looking aliens has actually gone backwards. Compare the blue fish aliens on SGU to the aliens on B-5, and it will appear that the SGU was the 20 year old show and not B-5.

 

[Jim of WVa]

...
Also, I really enjoyed Quark. The shifty, intentionally low keyed (he's a survivor) persona that he breaks apart when the situation dictates.
...

I enjoyed Quark's character as well. But make no mistake about it; the Ferengi were Gene Roddenberry's anti-semitism made manifest in alien form.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I enjoyed Quark's character as well. But make no mistake about it; the Ferengi were Gene Roddenberry's anti-semitism made manifest in alien form.

Space Jews?


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[Gatefan1976]

Babylon 5 had much better CGI and graphics.

Are you kidding me??
Watching B5 graphics was like playing Wing Commander 3 on my 3DO

 

[Gatefan1976]

Quite a bit of it was episodic. The only part I found was serial to some degree was the Dominion war. However, except for a few milestone episodes where something major happened, the episodes during the Dominion war could be run in any order without losing your place in the events. It would be nearly impossible to run B5 in any order without completely confusing the entire story.

The first 3-4 seasons WERE episodic, they admit as much, but pretty much the last 3 seasons were intentionally made more serial in nature.
--- merged: Sep 22, 2013 2:19 AM ---

Space Jews?


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[Overmind One]

The alien prosthetics work on Babylon 5 were head and shoulders above any television show before or since. With time, the CGI work on B-5 has been exceeded, but the art of making believable looking aliens has actually gone backwards. Compare the blue fish aliens on SGU to the aliens on B-5, and it will appear that the SGU was the 20 year old show and not B-5.

Very true. Considering how much money they spent in SGU for totally low impact "aliens", and you can find better in puppet form in other series. The Narn were well done, but I always felt that the Centauri hair thing was to hide the issue with the balding actors. It was an affectation rather than a genetic trait of the Centauri.

 

[Overmind One]

I enjoyed Quark's character as well. But make no mistake about it; the Ferengi were Gene Roddenberry's anti-semitism made manifest in alien form.

That is bullshit. Gene Roddenberry was not an anti-Semite or a racist. He and Nichelle Nichols had an affair which started in 1963 and went until he married Majel Barrett. But the writers of DS9 (and in TNG before it) may have been creating the Ferengi to mock Jews. Instead of big noses, they had big ears. The material based culture, Rules of Aquisition, etc. Roddenberry did not even create the Ferengi.

 

[ParagonPie]

If I recall the word Ferengi is derived from an Afghan word meaning Westerner.

Speaking of alien design, I actually like the way Farscape did it, to call them puppets is unfair but more like sophisticated animatronics (Pilot being a prime example). I wish they used those more often than CGI, as personally it can look incredibly tacky.

 

[Jim of WVa]

That is bullshit. Gene Roddenberry was not an anti-Semite or a racist. He and Nichelle Nichols had an affair which started in 1963 and went until he married Majel Barrett. But the writers of DS9 (and in TNG before it) may have been creating the Ferengi to mock Jews. Instead of big noses, they had big ears. The material based culture, Rules of Aquisition, etc. Roddenberry did not even create the Ferengi.

Roddenberry was not a racist, but he was known to be an anti-semite. Leonard Nimoy has remarked several times about his anti-semitism.

There used to be a YouTube video of Nimoy mentioning this, but I can't find it.

 

[Jim of WVa]

That is bullshit. Gene Roddenberry was not an anti-Semite or a racist. He and Nichelle Nichols had an affair which started in 1963 and went until he married Majel Barrett. But the writers of DS9 (and in TNG before it) may have been creating the Ferengi to mock Jews. Instead of big noses, they had big ears. The material based culture, Rules of Aquisition, etc. Roddenberry did not even create the Ferengi.

When were the Ferengi introduced in TNG? I believe it was when he was still alive.

 

[Jim of WVa]

http://www.fineorsuperfine.com/crank/crank6/crank6_trek.html

 

[shavedape]

Are you kidding me??
Watching B5 graphics was like playing Wing Commander 3 on my 3DO

We really need a "Dislike" option on this forum.

 

[shavedape]

I enjoyed Quark's character as well. But make no mistake about it; the Ferengi were Gene Roddenberry's anti-semitism made manifest in alien form.

It was definitely a slam towards Jews, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Roddenberry was behind it. At the time of TNG was he even writing anymore? Did he have total veto power over stuff? Did he consult and direct the story lines?

And as for Nimoy admitting that Roddenberry was an anti-semite that would be an interesting interview to watch. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he was or wasn't anti-semetic, I'm just saying it's curious is all.

*And for all we know the writers might have been Jewish themselves. It would be interesting to know the etiology behind the Ferengi. Then again, I don't want this thread to go off into a "racial thing" if it can be avoided. Perhaps we can avoid that if we simply all agree that DS9 sucked proverbial donkey balls and call it a day?

 

[Bluce Ree]

When were the Ferengi introduced in TNG? I believe it was when he was still alive.

Fifth episode of the first season entitled, "The Last Outpost".

 

[Jim of WVa]

Passing reference here:

http://www.republibot.com/?q=conten...ring-white-people-space&destination=node/1268

 

[YJ02]

It isn't Star Trek vs Star Wars. We're not comparing franchises. We're comparing Dish Soap 9's soapineas and B5's non soapiness.


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yeah maybe not the best example

I was just trying to say that I liked both shows