Earth In a 1000 Years
- Thread starter Tripler
- Start date
Tripler
Well Known GateFan
I do not see global warming or melting ice as "ominous" or in any way unnatural.
The earth goes through cycles and is going through one now but it also warns us of how much we are helping this cycle speed along . The glaciers in Greenland are covered in soot from dust ,dirt and pollutants from around the globe . The amount of air travel over the northern hemisphere has increased dramatically . Our waters , fresh and ocean are filled with floating debris . If anything we really have to curb our pollution or this planet is toast .
Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
The planet isn't toast, we are. We'll be cleansed right off like vermin and the planet will simply renew itself, as it has done throughout its life following major planetary disasters.
Tripler
Well Known GateFan
Thats
But the previous disasters were all natural and I guess you could say were biodegradable . The stuff man has created will be destroying the earth long after humans have died off . Of course after a few million years I guess you could say it could come back to what it was before man interfered ...
But the previous disasters were all natural and I guess you could say were biodegradable . The stuff man has created will be destroying the earth long after humans have died off . Of course after a few million years I guess you could say it could come back to what it was before man interfered ...
Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
What can man do that's comparable to a massive asteroid extinction level event that wiped most species and flora off the face of the earth?
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Tripler
Well Known GateFan
I guess you could say all the plastics and oil based products that humans have invented . That stuff is killing the oceans right now . Like you say though , a good enough sized asteroid could speed things up . Still though the earth has survived asteroids and I would also call that a biodegradable and natural event . Man has weapons , poisons , oil based products that will keep killing the oceans and sky for millions of years . The earth may not recover from that . It's a whole different ball game this time around .
You are a global warning believer, I see.
. I do not subscribe to the idea that anything Man is doing anywhere on earth is enough to affect the climate, the natural processes and cycles of temperature variation or any of that. There is no REAL, verified and corroborated data which supports that global warming. We are not "helping this cycle speed along". There IS a species of animal which we do know is contributing to greenhouse gases, and it isnt humans. It is COWS (and all cow-like cattle worldwide). They release millions of metric tons of methane into the atmosphere through belches, flatulence and what escapes from dropped feces. Methane directly reacts with atmospheric gases, and because it is of the organic type (unadulterated), it is a pure catalyst.There is a deeply rooted idea in science that Man is somehow "special" amongst all of earth's lifeforms, and that he has some sort of charge from God to "take care of" the planet and it's animals. That Man somehow can control the destiny of earth and the life living on it. Its all very narcissistic and self-centered and arrogant to think this way. Arguably, it is plants which are at the top of the food chain, followed by bacteria, Neither of these two groups of lifeforms can be lost, because without them all life on earth would cease. But let Man pop off all the nukes, use all the biological weapons and chemical weapons and whatever else we have, and within a millenia or so, life would be thriving here again and Man would be an ancient mystery to be discovered by the next Master Species.
We just arent all that.
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I hate to call you on this, but you just cant back up those bolded statements. The oceans are not being "killed". Ecosystems are being thrown out of balance, but Nature restores the balance easily. I laugh when I read the articles about coral reefs being destroyed and shrinking in the places they have been all the time (Barrier Reef, off the coasts of Australia, in the Pacific, etc). They ALWAYS leave out the fact that new reefs are growing in Malasian, Phillipine and Indonesian waters as well as new areas which are warming up and meet the conditions the corals like. They are MORE EVOLVED than humans. They will be here long after human beings are just curious fossils in long buried rock strata.
The earth WILL recover from anything we can throw at it. If we launched all the nukes, used every chemical and biological weapon and released every deadly virus we have stored for warfare, surface life would suffer greatly. But it would return and we would not. Life would adapt to the viruses, and the surface will renew itself as it has after much more cataclysmic events that Nature has thrown at it. Man is not "special". No more special than bacteria, protozoa or the common cockroach. In fact, those organisms are far more evolved than Man and have been here many times the length of time Mankind has even existed at all.
Tripler
Well Known GateFan
Yes ,,, you are right . It would take a millennia and then some . Keep in mind when the earth went though it's previous cycles , it did not have mans footprint on the earth . Now it does and humans have done more to degrade the quality of this planet than any asteroid could do . An asteroid has the effect of a forest fire . When the fire is done , the forest renews itself and comes back even stronger . What man has invented and unleashed will only destroy with no new growth .
Am I global warming believer ? No not at all . But I am a believer in pollution degrading our health and the planets health .
Am I global warming believer ? No not at all . But I am a believer in pollution degrading our health and the planets health .
What I DO like, is that enough global warning believers (I call it global warning and not warming
) have enough influence to clean up our existing technology or to get companies to clean it up. They should have been doing that all along...technology is supposed to advance, not just stay the same because "it works the way it is". I resent the fact that offices still use printers and printing ink and paper. THEY DONT HAVE TO. People should not be still purchasing fax machines. CRT type monitors should be banned. Besides the harmful mercury in the tubes, CRT monitors are sources of harmful radiation. This was hidden because the industry needed it to be. But you can easily test it by simply placing a sealed roll of film in front of a CRT monitor for only four hours and it will be fully exposed.The bolded in your message is incorrect. Nothing Man has created can destroy the earth in that fashion. Perhaps the plants that Man likes wont grow in contaminated soil, but bacteria will thrive in it and renew it for future growth. NOTHING Man does on this planet is permanent. People believe these things because of that entrenched idea in science that Man is somehow "special" and that he has these magical powers which can destroy planets. We just are not capable of it. We have nothing which can do that. We never will.
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Atlantis
Well Known GateFan
Have you guys heard of the great pacific garbage patch? My god its huge its probably going to get even bigger http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch
Tripler
Well Known GateFan
Like I mentioned before . This stuff will be around long after humans are gone .
Weather global warning is real or not , it gives us no right to treat our planet like a garbage dump yet we humans just doing just that .
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
I always get a laugh when some ppl talk about the damage humans do to the planet, as if we are some extra terrestrial race.
Man is a part of the earth, we are related to all living organisms on it. We are its current 'most capable' residents
Every thing we make or transform from raw material is also a part of the earth-we have 'introduced' nothing to the earth that is not from it--other than maybe some space rocks from the Moon
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This 'global warming' has been going on now for about 10,000yrs-it is one of the major instigators of our civilization. warmer temps back then helped spur on agriculture and to stop ppl from drifting about the planet as hunter-gatherers
many towns and other human settlements were lost to rising sea levels about 7.000 yrs ago--the black sea coast, the coast of the red sea and persian gulf all have submerged 'ruins' and other items on their bottom.
So even if we are accelerating this warming trend it is still natural since we are "natural"
to accept the current vox populi opinion of global warming can be argued to be linked with a belief in creation stories--that is, man is not of the earth and that we were introduced by someone/thing and therefore everything we do is god's will and unnatural.
If fundamentalist christians would actually think it through, than they should be believers of global warming
Man is a part of the earth, we are related to all living organisms on it. We are its current 'most capable' residents
Every thing we make or transform from raw material is also a part of the earth-we have 'introduced' nothing to the earth that is not from it--other than maybe some space rocks from the Moon
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This 'global warming' has been going on now for about 10,000yrs-it is one of the major instigators of our civilization. warmer temps back then helped spur on agriculture and to stop ppl from drifting about the planet as hunter-gatherers
many towns and other human settlements were lost to rising sea levels about 7.000 yrs ago--the black sea coast, the coast of the red sea and persian gulf all have submerged 'ruins' and other items on their bottom.
So even if we are accelerating this warming trend it is still natural since we are "natural"
to accept the current vox populi opinion of global warming can be argued to be linked with a belief in creation stories--that is, man is not of the earth and that we were introduced by someone/thing and therefore everything we do is god's will and unnatural.
If fundamentalist christians would actually think it through, than they should be believers of global warming
PRECISELY. All of the chemicals and "poisons" we have "created" came from materials already making up this planet. It will go back to the planet and feed it's continued renewal. Humans are not special. As you said, we are currently the "most capable" (of manipulating the environment), but other creatures had that position in the hierarchy, most recently the dinosaurs. They could de-forest an area, drive out competitors and provide a catalyst for the evolution of behaviors of other species of animal and plants because of their presence. Man can do this now. But The Planet is the boss. We are like dandruff on it's surface, and nothing we do now or ever will "destroy" it. We may *temporarily* destroy the conditions WE need to survive here on earth, in a worst case scenario...but even that would only eliminate US and not life on earth.
PRECISELY again.
. Global warming, if it were actually happening and it is not (at the moment), is a natural process and seeing it as being a bad thing is what the problem is. Perhaps we should have been building our cities with these cycles in mind. The annual flooding of the Mississippi basin and cities like New Orleans is getting more and more devatating each decade because the mouth of the Mississippi wants to shift west again...as it has for THOUSANDS of years. It fills with silt, then changes course to get around the dams it has built underwater from the silt. What do we do? We dredge it out and build levees to force the river to stay the same course it has had since our precious cities were built along it's coasts.The Great Lakes are shrinking. That makes sense, because they are remnants of glaciers which melted there and stayed in the deep glacier valleys they had dug during the Ice Age. They are losing water faster than they are gaining it and they will be gone in a few hundred years or less. All a natural process, not a "disaster".
Agree! But I find that most of the global warning believers are on the far Left politically, and the fundamentalist Christians have a hard time understanding what weather is. They think it has to do with what God's mood is on a given day.
. An objective analysis of the data presented for a case of manmade global warming reveals it to be flimsy and contradictory.
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heisenberg
Earl Grey
George Carlin always said it best
Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
All of these things created from material found right here on Earth. Plastics and other material we synthesize are not biodegradable in the short term but they do degrade over the long term, especially if floating around in the ocean. So, anything we, or any other civilization, do is of no consequence to the Earth's long term survival. Just our own.
An asteroid does more than speed things up. It actually *does* create the very environment alarmists like to pretend humans are doing. It destroys large areas of land, throws toxins into the air, fills the sky with material that creates a massive greenhouse effect while blocking enough sunlight to kill vegetation and animals, burns away ozone and other parts of the atmosphere and causes massive extinctions.
There's no whole new ballgame here. If we screw things up, we'll simply vanish. Earth will renew itself and go on, giving way to the next eventual dominant species.
Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
Sorry, brother, but that is a patently false statement. Anything man-made is made with stuff found right here on Earth. Unless we have some magical means of stripping the atmosphere off the planet or detonating the core thereby destroying the planet completely, nothing we do is of any consequence to the planet itself over the long term.
Comparing an ELE sized asteroid's effects to a forest fire is like comparing a nuclear detonation to lighting firecrackers as a kid. Asteroids have far greater impact on the Earth and its environment than anything we can ever do cumulatively with our current technology. It doesn't just go "boom" and cause big fires. It literally destroys environment and the ecosystem and does leave widespread radiation. I think you severely underestimate the consequence of a sizable asteroid vs man throwing plastic into the ocean. You also seem to forget that oil comes from deep within the Earth itself and that what we call "oil spills" today can occur without our help by way of massive quakes causing cracks on the surface.
The largest creator of "greenhouse gases" on earth? COWS and CATTLE, not Man. Largest creators of carbon dioxide on earth? BACTERIA, not Man. And plastics and paper in the oceans are killing it?
The entire ocean is full of fish shit, aquatic animal pee and shit and decaying bodies and plants, dissolved minerals from the surface area covered by oceans...shall I go on?
Tripler
Well Known GateFan
Ok ok ,,, I watched the educational vid from George Carlin . Very thruthful and to the point . So I am wrong on a bunch of stuff . I am man enough to admit it . But it still gives humans no right to polute the way we do . It gives humans no right to add shit all over the place . What's wrong with wanting clean air . What's wrong with walking in the woods that have not been deforested . What's wrong with wanting to see a whale . What's wrong with wanting to drink water out of my tap and not a plastic bottle . Yes I am wrong on saying the world is toast . Humans are and will be toast but while I am here and my children grow up I'd like to look out the window and say ahh ,,, look at that . Clean air today so I won't need my inhaler .
And you are right . We have the technology to clean stuff up but it is not applied as too many people are getting filthy rich off of our need for stuff and more stuff . Hey . I'm guilty of polluting the air with my 2 stroke motorcycle which I ride rarely but still enjoy the small time I ride it .
Do I believe in global warning ? If you add pollution and not climate change to the equation. Then I am onboard .
Thanks for all the input guys . Enjoying the banter tremendously .
And you are right . We have the technology to clean stuff up but it is not applied as too many people are getting filthy rich off of our need for stuff and more stuff . Hey . I'm guilty of polluting the air with my 2 stroke motorcycle which I ride rarely but still enjoy the small time I ride it .
Do I believe in global warning ? If you add pollution and not climate change to the equation. Then I am onboard .
Thanks for all the input guys . Enjoying the banter tremendously .