Earth In a 1000 Years

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member

Hearing Stewart recite Hamlet's speech from Prince of Denmark is a perfect example of our foolish self-wanking (1623 version):

What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in
Reason? how infinite in faculty? in forme and mouing
how expresse and admirable? in Action, how like an Angel?
in apprehension, how like a God?


:wanking::wanking::wanking::wanking::wanking:

It is no different than Narcissus falling in love with his reflection:


Man praising himself and anointing himself a god. Funny!
 

Gate_Boarder

Well Known GateFan
Bees and trees, whales and snails. Like Carlin says," We shouldn't worry about the big stuff." Its the little stuff that will get us in the end. Virus-s-s-s! and such, or how about one of those old fashioned volcanoes that we haven't seen in several million years. Wiping out one continent and spewing all that good stuff out so that everyone else has the priveledge of starving to death.

Earth has no time table and knows nothing of time. We will be gone in ten thousand years and all we will leave behind will be a mound of buried bones. Earth will think nothing of us, or may remember us only as those two legged cockroaches that crapped in their own nests.
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
Um, no. The dinosaurs were around MILLIONS of years. They changed the environment in ways that still persist today. Chemical spilloff still consists of elements which were already on earth. You are subscribing to the idea that Man is special in his being, in his history and works...that he alone amongst earth's creatures has the capability to change the environment. It isnt even close to the scale of change affected by the dinosaurs.



Termites have been around for 150 million years. They build mounds in the millions globally, and many ancient ones are still intact today. If you simply moved a spoonful of earth each day for 150 million years, you will have moved more earth than Man has in the past 10000 years. Termites moved much much more than that. When you claim that Man's "transformation of the earth" in no way compares, you are correct. We are nowhere near the level of the amount of change that species such as bacteria, plants, termites, bees, flies, cockroaches, earthworms, fish and others do. Our "transformations" are very very temporary...fading away without a trace in a mere couple of thousand years or so. We just arent all that. We are animals on this planet like all the other animals, not any more or less special than any of them. The notion that Man is special is a narcissistic, self-serving one. He is a peer with the animals around him, not "above" them. The specialness of Man within science is a carryover of Church influence in scientific circles. It comes from the days when scientists believed that the Sun and the heavens all circled the earth, the center of Heaven and the place of the Children of God :rolleye0014:. This is an incredibly egotistic view of our species, and it stands in the way of understanding our relationship with nature and the environment.
I'm not subscribing to any idea that man is special. I'm questioning your reasoning.

First of all, man is ONE species. You're comparing the activities of multiple species against one species. Let's restrict it to one species. There are over 2000 species of termites.

Throwing big numbers isn't giving me a source of your claim that termites have moved more dirt around than man. Just asking for a source for that claim you're making, nothing more.

Consider this: many of the mounds made by termites are highly dense and long lived. That means they have very little tendency towards erosion. That means they have very little "dirt" to move per year to maintain such mounds. When they have large scale destruction of their mounds, then they likely have to move dirt around. Also, termites are generally restricted to subtropical regions and specific temperature ranges within regions. Another restriction.

Again, one species against many isn't a fair comparison. Don't know what you're ranting about the second half of your second paragraph.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I'm not subscribing to any idea that man is special. I'm questioning your reasoning.

First of all, man is ONE species. You're comparing the activities of multiple species against one species. Let's restrict it to one species. There are over 2000 species of termites.

Throwing big numbers isn't giving me a source of your claim that termites have moved more dirt around than man. Just asking for a source for that claim you're making, nothing more.

Im using extrapolation. Lets just pick any ONE species of termite, and use that species and cut out the rest (for this example). One termite mound requires the movement of AT LEAST one ounce of earth to create. Multiply that by a very conservative 1 million mounds per year (31.25 tons), for 150 million years and that is 4,687,500,000 tons of earth by just one species. I specified "termites" as a group, including all the species there are, to illustrate how Man's impact on the environment is miniscule by comparison. If we include all termite species, the numbers increase exponentially to a degree that Man's influence is miniscule. We need to also include earthworms, ants and other digging insect species in this. My point is that Man is not special or particularly unique in his behaviors or accomplishments. Much of the technology we have is pointless, or inefficient.

Consider this: many of the mounds made by termites are highly dense and long lived. That means they have very little tendency towards erosion. That means they have very little "dirt" to move per year to maintain such mounds. When they have large scale destruction of their mounds, then they likely have to move dirt around. Also, termites are generally restricted to subtropical regions and specific temperature ranges within regions. Another restriction.

You are wanting to restrict this to termites alone and only one species? Even the scientific classification of "species" is inefficient. A brown termite which is the same as a white termite which is the same as a red termite or a green termite except for the color does not make it something other than a termite, nor does it necessarily make it a separate species. Its why "africanized honey bees" exist (crossbreeding). Separate species should not be able to create fertile offspring. Like in physics, many entomologists seek distinction by identifying a "new species" they can name after themselves and claim the coveted "discoverer" status. My point is that "termites" (all varieties of them) have moved more earth than Man in his existence. Earthworms have moved even more! :)

Again, one species against many isn't a fair comparison. Don't know what you're ranting about the second half of your second paragraph.

I wasnt making a comparison between just Man and termites, I was making the point that insects are more evolved than Man, and that they have moved more earth than Man, and impact the environment more than Man which makes the idea of Manmade Global Warming a ridiculous concept. Im making the point that Man is not special, he isnt the Lord of the Earth, and he is neither the most evolved creature on earth or even the most intelligent. He is Man...that's it.

The second half of the second paragraph is me emphasizing the fact that Man is not special and there is nothing particularly intelligent about thinking Man is the most advanced creature ever to exist and that we can "save the planet" (or destroy it). The Global Warming pundits have been caught fudging numbers and exaggerating to support the notion.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Im using extrapolation. Lets just pick any ONE species of termite, and use that species and cut out the rest (for this example). One termite mound requires the movement of AT LEAST one ounce of earth to create. Multiply that by a very conservative 1 million mounds per year (31.25 tons), for 150 million years and that is 4,687,500,000 tons of earth by just one species. I specified "termites" as a group, including all the species there are, to illustrate how Man's impact on the environment is miniscule by comparison. If we include all termite species, the numbers increase exponentially to a degree that Man's influence is miniscule. We need to also include earthworms, ants and other digging insect species in this. My point is that Man is not special or particularly unique in his behaviors or accomplishments. Much of the technology we have is pointless, or inefficient.



You are wanting to restrict this to termites alone and only one species? Even the scientific classification of "species" is inefficient. A brown termite which is the same as a white termite which is the same as a red termite or a green termite except for the color does not make it something other than a termite, nor does it necessarily make it a separate species. Its why "africanized honey bees" exist (crossbreeding). Separate species should not be able to create fertile offspring. Like in physics, many entomologists seek distinction by identifying a "new species" they can name after themselves and claim the coveted "discoverer" status. My point is that "termites" (all varieties of them) have moved more earth than Man in his existence. Earthworms have moved even more! :)



I wasnt making a comparison between just Man and termites, I was making the point that insects are more evolved than Man, and that they have moved more earth than Man, and impact the environment more than Man which makes the idea of Manmade Global Warming a ridiculous concept. Im making the point that Man is not special, he isnt the Lord of the Earth, and he is neither the most evolved creature on earth or even the most intelligent. He is Man...that's it.

The second half of the second paragraph is me emphasizing the fact that Man is not special and there is nothing particularly intelligent about thinking Man is the most advanced creature ever to exist and that we can "save the planet" (or destroy it). The Global Warming pundits have been caught fudging numbers and exaggerating to support the notion.


First, you know I agree with you on this

But, I am just interested on how you "square" with scientists on the issue-say Neil Tyson? He is a vehement "man is responsible" guy
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
First, you know I agree with you on this

But, I am just interested on how you "square" with scientists on the issue-say Neil Tyson? He is a vehement "man is responsible" guy

He is a global warning believer. He is an astrophysicist, not an anthropologist, climatologist or archaeologist. Worldwide, the manmade global warming pundits are revising their estimates, their theories and their assessment of Man's impact on the environment. They are now calling it "Climate Change" :). Well DUH, the climate IS changing. But it is not because of anything Man is doing. It is a natural cycle of the planet, which has been verified by core samples at the Arctic as well as temperate zone fossil strata.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
He is a global warning believer. He is an astrophysicist, not an anthropologist, climatologist or archaeologist. Worldwide, the manmade global warming pundits are revising their estimates, their theories and their assessment of Man's impact on the environment. They are now calling it "Climate Change" :). Well DUH, the climate IS changing. But it is not because of anything Man is doing. It is a natural cycle of the planet, which has been verified by core samples at the Arctic as well as temperate zone fossil strata.

You do realize that you (and I) risk being labeled something like "right winger climate change deniers who reject science,like Evolution for example" buy ppl like those in the Obama admin for one, yes? :anim_59:

Unfortunately, the politics of the US is so "team player oriented" that one risks total "destruction" if they drift from their party's views (either side)

that's why I do not have a party
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Jesus came back for my birthday this year, how sucky is that :P
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
This will sound weird but I'm far more optimistic nowadays since discovering that the radiation from the nukes that were tested in the Bikini atoll has dissipated greatly in recent years. To me this says that the earth can, and does, "heal" more quickly than we realize.

I'm against pollution but I'm also confident that the earth can and will spring back from being "injured" by us.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/12/bikini_atoll_radiologically_safer_than_home/
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan

shavedape

Well Known GateFan

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
You do realize that you (and I) risk being labeled something like "right winger climate change deniers who reject science,like Evolution for example" buy ppl like those in the Obama admin for one, yes? :anim_59:

Unfortunately, the politics of the US is so "team player oriented" that one risks total "destruction" if they drift from their party's views (either side)

that's why I do not have a party

This is one area I differ sharply from the Left. I do believe in climate change, global warming and global cooling (Ice Ages) because several of each are recorded in the rock strata and in ice cores. Unless each epoch has included global industrialization and automobiles, I doubt Man is the reason for any of these climactic cycles or hastening any of them. The science (mostly) fails the global warning screechers. They use fudged, unrealistic models projected way into the future and have incomplete variables. If it were perfected, why cant the NOAA still not make weather predictions past 7 days with any accuracy? But they can tell us that our cars and perhaps even our barbecues are contributing to "global warming"?

Please. :)

I dont care what people think when I tell them to shove global warming. :)
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
This is one area I differ sharply from the Left. I do believe in climate change, global warming and global cooling (Ice Ages) because several of each are recorded in the rock strata and in ice cores. Unless each epoch has included global industrialization and automobiles, I doubt Man is the reason for any of these climactic cycles or hastening any of them. The science (mostly) fails the global warning screechers. They use fudged, unrealistic models projected way into the future and have incomplete variables. If it were perfected, why cant the NOAA still not make weather predictions past 7 days with any accuracy? But they can tell us that our cars and perhaps even our barbecues are contributing to "global warming"?

Please. :)

I dont care what people think when I tell them to shove global warming. :)


Doesn't it seem strange that the party who seemingly on the "side" of science=the democrats (remember I say "seemingly" as in quotes) would be on the side that would have a more comprehensive side of this climate issue?

That is, since there are probably very few evo deniers in the democratic party-then does it not seem that "man as Earth creature" is a totally naturally extension of evolution-so, if one excepts any human involvement in climate change than it should be accepted as "ok" since it is an effect of our evolution

To say that "man has caused this change through warming" is to lend more credence to the- man as master as a gift from God- belief that creationists hold

Conversely, the right wing creationist lot should believe in man made climate change since their extreme religiosity states that man was "placed" on Earth to dominate it to his will-for them to deny climate change in the way they do is to deny the "gift" of man's primacy from God.
On a side note=======

They should also believe in the big bang and all of evolution-and still be creationists. If anything in one of Tyson's latest ep of COSMOS, he had a pretty good visual when he held a gumball sized sphere in his hand and stated that science believes the universe started out that size before the "bang"--WHAT A POINT TO BE MISSED by creationists! What a missed opp to claim greater glory for God! To embrace the big bang and than to say "See, God did create all, and it is "shown by science" (of course they will have to "game it") that a single creature such as God, could have indeed held a single small object and caused it to come into being; the "bang" as "let there be light!"

If anything shows the utter shallowness of a creationists thought, it is their failure in embracing the big bang and using it for their ideological ends
 
B

Backstep

Guest
man has unlocked more carbon that in nature would not normally be unlocked unless a disaster happens, (Russian, Deccan traps)
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
man has unlocked more carbon that in nature would not normally be unlocked unless a disaster happens, (Russian, Deccan traps)

Man's contribution to total CO2 released annually is less than half of a percent. The oceans release far more, and CO2 absorption by the oceans as well as it's release is based on temperature.
 
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