THE EXPANSE --it's premise, plot and socio-political implications

[Joelist]

Okay, the two hour season finale is in the books.

Keeping it spoiler free, overall it was not too bad. That said I did feel like the pacing dragged in the middle of it but the start and end were good. Plus the story advanced to a point roughly 60% of the way through the first book (Leviathan Wakes).

Okay - to spoilers:

Spoiler

We have now been officially introduced to Daddy Mao and Dresden as well as Thoth Station and the atrocity they perpetrate on Eros. And, as the end showed the protomolecule is behaving just a little differently than they expected. But then after all they didn't make it they discovered it on Phoebe (the alien creators of the protomolecule come into play later in the series). I liked the retrospective on Julie Mao which filled in the blanks from the premiere also.

 

[Overmind One]

Okay, the two hour season finale is in the books.

Keeping it spoiler free, overall it was not too bad. That said I did feel like the pacing dragged in the middle of it but the start and end were good. Plus the story advanced to a point roughly 60% of the way through the first book (Leviathan Wakes).

Okay - to spoilers:

Spoiler

We have now been officially introduced to Daddy Mao and Dresden as well as Thoth Station and the atrocity they perpetrate on Eros. And, as the end showed the protomolecule is behaving just a little differently than they expected. But then after all they didn't make it they discovered it on Phoebe (the alien creators of the protomolecule come into play later in the series). I liked the retrospective on Julie Mao which filled in the blanks from the premiere also.

Is the book worth reading after you have watched this series, or does the series faithfully play out the events of the book?

 

[Joelist]

So far it is staying close. But the book is always worth reading as a TV show inevitably has to condense stuff a little. So far my guess is that they get to the end of the events in Leviathan Wakes by the close of Season 2.

 

[Overmind One]

Wow, this last episode was so dark and closed in and violent. Hard to watch, but necessary to move the story forward. I was left mentally and emotionally drained after the episode. So, we are on break now.

This show is hands down the only truly serious hard scifi series on the air. Nothing else comes close to it in terms of production values, writing, character development, ensemble acting with both team groups and individual characters, it is the new high bar (IMO). Given the amount of material available in the novel series, this show has multi-season long term potential. Also, and this is rare...it has the potential to build a rabid fandom among actual geeks. Dark Matter sorta has that, too but the rest of that show is just not up to the level of The Expanse.

I will finish Leviathan Wakes and move on to Caliban's War during the break.

 

[YJ02]

The spoiler link stuff IS pure sci-fi. It is:

Spoiler

A sort of molecular "bio-programmer" that is not biological in and of itself. And it follows specific rules and indeed over the course of the books its entire operation cycle is depicted. It was sent by its creators across space to worlds where it converted the biomass into kind of a factory to build the components and launch the rings. It's actually a pretty hard sci-fi concept, and resembles the scenario in the book "Code of the Lifemaker", where Saturn's moon Titan is turned into an alien factory by a damaged factory ship in the distant past.

i'll see how it goes

I still did like the last two eps though (season finale)--seems Miller may have snapped just a little. I like the character better that way.

Great line for Amos in the ep "The machine (medical on the Roci) keeps changing to hospice for you two..."

the way he delivered it with the sardonic grin he had, was just a great piece of acting

 

[YJ02]

dark and closed in and violent. Hard to watch, but necessary to move the story forward. I was left mentally and emotionally drained after the episode

by what part(s) exactly?

Interested not being critical

 

[Overmind One]

by what part(s) exactly?

Interested not being critical

The corridors, the mass death and coughing up blood from Miller and Holden, the intentional mass murdering of those on Eros station, the killing of individuals at point blank range, and did I mention those damned bluish gray corridors? There was very little lightening up on the darkness of that episode. But I knew it was necessary to advance the show. I am not into dark and death.

 

[Joelist]

True.

The atrocity Dresden and his cohorts committed on Eros is an important story element in Leviathan Wakes, as it sets the entire chain of events of the climax of the novel into motion. It needed to be shown, and the ending of the episode was also important as it is apparent that Dresden and gang are playing with forces they just do not properly understand.

 

[Overmind One]

True.

The atrocity Dresden and his cohorts committed on Eros is an important story element in Leviathan Wakes, as it sets the entire chain of events of the climax of the novel into motion. It needed to be shown, and the ending of the episode was also important as it is apparent that Dresden and gang are playing with forces they just do not properly understand.

Yep. It was very heavy and dark and deep, and essential to the overall story. It could have been even more gruesome like it was in the book.

 

[Joelist]

So you're up to this part?

 

[Overmind One]

So you're up to this part?

Yes. They have left out significant scenes, but nothing that would affect the TV portrayal of the story. They have the story down pat, although the characters in the book I imagine to have been much different than those in the show. There is still more than half the book to go. I will likely finish it this weekend. I had no idea how meaty this novel would be! It's almost Bradbury in depth.

The book was far more gruesome in it's description of what happened on Eros station.

 

[YJ02]

The corridors, the mass death and coughing up blood from Miller and Holden, the intentional mass murdering of those on Eros station, the killing of individuals at point blank range, and did I mention those damned bluish gray corridors? There was very little lightening up on the darkness of that episode. But I knew it was necessary to advance the show. I am not into dark and death.

the lighting? idk,WOULD a space station on a asteroid HAVE the spare power for extra bright lighting? seriously, idk,would it?

appearance wise-well, blame nuBSG !

the mass murdering of peons; the then neo-peasantry of space? Corporate greed baby!!!

If you think you have a wonder weapon, you'd have to test it on a mass scale on a varied test group that allows for variance and variables. such as Earther, Belter, ethnicity, ppl already sick with other diseases-viruses,bacteria--would it work on everyone?

a captive audience on a space station is the perfect test with little to no risk of outside contamination confounding the experiment or of the bio weapon getting off of Eros.
(lock down of ships; and Dresden's men were never going to let those thug-cops off of Eros, that was clear)

If the guy-Mao, only shed one tear over his daughter being killed, you think he would care about a bunch of belters that neither Mars or Earth would get broken up about?

<<<Which brings the question--till now, Dresden was being careful to pit Mars against Earth against the belters for who was to blame--did they leave any of these 'breadcrumbs of guilt' on Eros?>>>

The Eros experiment was just an example--amplified to allow for the increased growth of greed over time(from now), of just where greed can take a corporation

 

[YJ02]

True.

The atrocity Dresden and his cohorts committed on Eros is an important story element in Leviathan Wakes, as it sets the entire chain of events of the climax of the novel into motion. It needed to be shown, and the ending of the episode was also important as it is apparent that Dresden and gang are playing with forces they just do not properly understand.

It is only an atrocity in the mind of the guilty if they now it is one; surely their personal greed and loyalty to company assuaged/cut off any guilt they may have had.

Look at history; many atrocities have been written off as "necessary" and thereby guilt free when it's history was written by the victors

Mao plans on being the victor

 

[Overmind One]

the lighting? idk,WOULD a space station on a asteroid HAVE the spare power for extra bright lighting? seriously, idk,would it?

appearance wise-well, blame nuBSG !

the mass murdering of peons; the then neo-peasantry of space? Corporate greed baby!!!

See, just the thought that anyone would do what was done on Eros station is a bit nauseating to me. Like watching somebody abusing an innocent animal or beating a child beyond what is acceptable. It makes me physically queasy. And Episode 10 was mostly all that, so the lighting and the portrayal of that event was literally gut wrenching. If they had done it Tarantino style, it would have been cheesy. But it was eerily realistic. And it was necessary to show it.

If you think you have a wonder weapon, you'd have to test it on a mass scale on a varied test group that allows for variance and variables. such as Earther, Belter, ethnicity, ppl already sick with other diseases-viruses,bacteria--would it work on everyone?

a captive audience on a space station is the perfect test with little to no risk of outside contamination confounding the experiment or of the bio weapon getting off of Eros.
(lock down of ships; and Dresden's men were never going to let those thug-cops off of Eros, that was clear)

Sure, I get that but It is so far outside of anything I would think anyone would ACTUALLY do that it is disturbing to watch. It goes back to why I didn't watch shows like Dexter, Hannibal and Sons of Anarchy and other shows full of violence and gore. It's not my thing at all.

If the guy-Mao, only shed one tear over his daughter being killed, you think he would care about a bunch of belters that neither Mars or Earth would get broken up about?

<<<Which brings the question--till now, Dresden was being careful to pit Mars against Earth against the belters for who was to blame--did they leave any of these 'breadcrumbs of guilt' on Eros?>>>

The Eros experiment was just an example--amplified to allow for the increased growth of greed over time(from now), of just where greed can take a corporation

The weapon is not really a weapon.

 

[Joelist]

The weapon is not really a weapon.

BINGO! Like I said upthread Mao and Dresden are playing with forces they do not understand.

 

[Overmind One]

BINGO! Like I said upthread Mao and Dresden are playing with forces they do not understand.

Next season will have to center around the effects of the Protomolecule and what it is and why it was created, and how it wound up on Phoebe (rather, how Phoebe wound up in our solar system?) Anything we say about the Protomolecule will be a spoiler for those who have not seen the show or read the book.

 

[YJ02]

The weapon is not really a weapon

but they think they can use it as a weapon correct? and i would strongly differ as it not being a weapon--as you said, the amount of ppl killed by their injecting it into them as a "radiation med", is classic bio weapon

what it really turns out to be doesn't matter if in its misuse it achieves the desired effects

I get that but It is so far outside of anything I would think anyone would ACTUALLY do that it is disturbing to watch

it is defi disturbing!!!

it would not be natural for us to watch on tv or in reality the killing of another person without being disturbed by it

however-look to reality and what corps HAVE DONE already, either through the govt and the military (agent orange, medical and rx testing,etc) or outright

if ever it is proven that corp's or govt's were behind the introduction of HIV to africa or Ebola or any other virus-that is bio weapon use for corp greed right there

and

Invasion of Panama, Grenada? Both ops 'blessed' with some degree of legitimacy, but, many believe they were little more then showcases for many of the new weapons systems the US military had upgraded to in the 80's as a living commercial for arms sales to other nations

I would think you would already know this and see the same thing being played out in fiction in this last episode

Next season will have to center around the effects of the Protomolecule and what it is and why it was created, and how it wound up on Phoebe (rather, how Phoebe wound up in our solar system?)

just going by a type of 'discovery' process here. that is, only commenting on what I have seen on screen,as I see it WITHOUT having a 'knowledgeable justification' (from the books) for poo-poohing another's thoughts on an ep or the show

i admit i typed about the ring and the alien connection earlier, but I was trying to show ECGORDON that I was interested in this show for its story and not just to have another avenue to discuss politics,etc

 

[Overmind One]

but they think they can use it as a weapon correct? and i would strongly differ as it not being a weapon--as you said, the amount of ppl killed by their injecting it into them as a "radiation med", is classic bio weapon

what it really turns out to be doesn't matter if in its misuse it achieves the desired effects



it is defi disturbing!!!

it would not be natural for us to watch on tv or in reality the killing of another person without being disturbed by it

however-look to reality and what corps HAVE DONE already, either through the govt and the military (agent orange, medical and rx testing,etc) or outright

if ever it is proven that corp's or govt's were behind the introduction of HIV to africa or Ebola or any other virus-that is bio weapon use for corp greed right there

and

Invasion of Panama, Grenada? Both ops 'blessed' with some degree of legitimacy, but, many believe they were little more then showcases for many of the new weapons systems the US military had upgraded to in the 80's as a living commercial for arms sales to other nations

I would think you would already know this and see the same thing being played out in fiction in this last episode



just going by a type of 'discovery' process here. that is, only commenting on what I have seen on screen,as I see it WITHOUT having a 'knowledgeable justification' (from the books) for poo-poohing another's thoughts on an ep or the show

i admit i typed about the ring and the alien connection earlier, but I was trying to show ECGORDON that I was interested in this show for its story and not just to have another avenue to discuss politics,etc

Yes, it is being used as a weapon. But like a garden gnome or frying pan can be used as a weapon, this thing's primary purpose is not really a weapon at all. And those people were only "killed" by definition. This one, you should read in it's book form if you want to know more. The series (IMO) is better than the book so far. The book is more linear than the series, and the series characters are more developed than those in the book (IMO). The book however, is more descriptive and gives more backstory and fills out details better.

This series has a long ways to go in terms of the premise. I am just finishing up Leviathan Wakes. Lots more in store coming! Let's just say that Julie Mao did not "die" in vain. I imagine this series will tell the story as closely next season as it did this season.

A real standout for me this season is the character Chrisjen. There has never been anything like her in scifi. Nothing remotely close. A human, exotic and wise and exceptionally intelligent, yet with emotion and rationality:

 

[Joelist]

Yes she is a good character.

OM, I'm not so sure they are using it as a weapon. Per Pages 414 - 419:

Spoiler

Dresden in these pages not only reveals himself to be a sociopath (and that Protogen altered the other scientists to make them sociopathic as well) but states that their "science project" was to let the protomolecule run its program so they could understand its coding. The objective was to learn how to reprogram it and use it to reconfigure human beings to make them more "advanced" - he gives as examples being able to work in space without a suit and being able to hibernate for interstellar trips. I read it as Dresden sold Protogen on the whole sordid concept; then they sold certain covert UN departments on it.

I agree the series so far is better than the book simply because the book rambled a bit and it did get more graphic in the book. But that said, the book is still cracking good.

 

[YJ02]

This one, you should read in it's book form if you want to know more.

funny!!

when either me or GF said the same about either the Tolkien "world" or the SW books, you said something like "I don't need to read any books...if its not on screen then I don't need it!"

but yeah, I "get" that the books will always be more inclusive of info and deeper in depth for the story and plot (and backstory) then anything on screen will be.