What has happened?

[JohnSN7]

I really did not want to write this thread. Let me repeat that. I really really did not want to write this thread AT ALL. But Joseph Mallozzi's recent stunt about Dragon Con has led to this. It has to be said. What are TPTB thinking? Their behavior has changed over the course of two years and not in a good way. They have said and done things now that a few years ago I never thought they would do.

When the reviews started rolling in after Air something changed. Brad Wright called out and argued with a critic (Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune). We got Joseph Mallozzi's "Loooong haul" blog post and subsequent rants. Brian J. Smith made his series of statements (needs no further explanation). Gateworld's iron fist. Oh, and of course Michael Hinman and his mud-slinging (almost not worth mentioning). We can't leave him out. There's obviously been so much more that has gone on. That is just a basic summary.

Overall, TPTB and their allies have been telling the Stargate fans that they don't get it. That SGU is amazing and the anti-SGU crowd can't appreciate its darker, grittier, character-driven storylines. That condescending attitude is unprofessional and in some cases just plain awful. Not only have they been elitist with regards to SGU and its supposed superior maturity to the other series, they have referred to Stargate fans that do not like SGU as immature. Even worse than that, Joe Mallozzi and Brian J. Smith have characterized Stargate fans that don't like SGU as angry basement dwellers with no social skills or social life. That is just plain insulting. Here's what confounds me: what successful showrunner bashes the fans of the franchise like that? The same fans who made the franchise as successful as it is? What are they thinking?

Here's a great example of what to do: 24. I love 24. Season 5 of 24 has been called the best season of the series. It is certainly the most critically acclaimed season. Season 6 was honestly dissapointing. The plotlines became far-fetched and a little bit silly. It was the weakest season of the show. Did Kiefer Sutherland bash the fans for "not getting it"? No. And neither did the show runners. They all admitted that it was a weak season and said that they would change the next season for the better. They made changes to the show and fixed the weak points. And it worked. The show lasted another two entertaining seasons.

Now let's look at SGU. Have TPTB done what 24 did? Not even close. They have built a wall and are not listening to the fans. They are unwilling to fully admit their mistakes. We all make mistakes. There's no dishonor in admitting that the show did not work. TPTB had an admirable goal. They wanted to try a different Stargate show to keep the franchise fresh and to take it in a newer, better direction. SGU did not turn out that way, but TPTB have just kept on going in the same direction with a bull-headed stubborness even though the ratings are very low and the fanbase is divided. They need to listen to the fans. I personally think SGU has gone too far in the ground to be salvaged, but TPTB could agree to make a new show learning from what went wrong with SGU (or at least could make the SG1 and Atlantis movies). In conclusion, I think that TPTB have stopped listening to the fans. If they listened to the fans and used the criticism to make positive change, then the Stargate franchise would be in a better place.

 

[Rac80]

I really did not want to write this thread. Let me repeat that. I really really did not want to write this thread AT ALL. But Joseph Mallozzi's recent stunt about Dragon Con has led to this. It has to be said. What are TPTB thinking? Their behavior has changed over the course of two years and not in a good way. They have said and done things now that a few years ago I never thought they would do.

When the reviews started rolling in after Air something changed. Brad Wright called out and argued with a critic (Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune). We got Joseph Mallozzi's "Loooong haul" blog post and subsequent rants. Brian J. Smith made his series of statements (needs no further explanation). Gateworld's iron fist. Oh, and of course Michael Hinman and his mud-slinging (almost not worth mentioning). We can't leave him out. There's obviously been so much more that has gone on. That is just a basic summary.

Overall, TPTB and their allies have been telling the Stargate fans that they don't get it. That SGU is amazing and the anti-SGU crowd can't appreciate its darker, grittier, character-driven storylines. That condescending attitude is unprofessional and in some cases just plain awful. Not only have they been elitist with regards to SGU and its supposed superior maturity to the other series, they have referred to Stargate fans that do not like SGU as immature. Even worse than that, Joe Mallozzi and Brian J. Smith have characterized Stargate fans that don't like SGU as angry basement dwellers with no social skills or social life. That is just plain insulting. Here's what confounds me: what successful showrunner bashes the fans of the franchise like that? The same fans who made the franchise as successful as it is? What are they thinking?

Here's a great example of what to do: 24. I love 24. Season 5 of 24 has been called the best season of the series. It is certainly the most critically acclaimed season. Season 6 was honestly dissapointing. The plotlines became far-fetched and a little bit silly. It was the weakest season of the show. Did Kiefer Sutherland bash the fans for "not getting it"? No. And neither did the show runners. They all admitted that it was a weak season and said that they would change the next season for the better. They made changes to the show and fixed the weak points. And it worked. The show lasted another two entertaining seasons.

Now let's look at SGU. Have TPTB done what 24 did? Not even close. They have built a wall and are not listening to the fans. They are unwilling to fully admit their mistakes. We all make mistakes. There's no dishonor in admitting that the show did not work. TPTB had an admirable goal. They wanted to try a different Stargate show to keep the franchise fresh and to take it in a newer, better direction. SGU did not turn out that way, but TPTB have just kept on going in the same direction with a bull-headed stubborness even though the ratings are very low and the fanbase is divided. They need to listen to the fans. I personally think SGU has gone too far in the ground to be salvaged, but TPTB could agree to make a new show learning from what went wrong with SGU (or at least could make the SG1 and Atlantis movies). In conclusion, I think that TPTB have stopped listening to the fans. If they listened to the fans and used the criticism to make positive change, then the Stargate franchise would be in a better place.

Applause applause! great post. we all wonder what happened! I honestly think is they began to beleive their own press...they forgot it was PR bullshit and thought they were actually capable of creating a keen insightful show!


what cracks me up is that while those of us who dislike sgpoo are called "immature basement dwellers" and those that love it are sooooooooo adult for seeing the grittiness of the show, the truth is the fans here at SGU*Sucks are mostly over 30, well educated, DON't Live with our mommies, with hobbies and interests that range far beyond this one show, and squeedrones/fangurlz/bois are under 30 (many are still in high school), live with their mommies, uneducated, who seem to live to squee and drool over the immature soapy portrayals found in sgpoo as being "sooooooo realistic".

yep TPTB of sgpoo have definitely screwed the pooch with this whole mess.... only 15 days until my (poison) pen comes out for a review!

 

[OCgatergal]

Indeed, people in the business need to develop a thick skin, if you're going to bash everyone that dislikes your work, you're not going to get very high up the ladder.

 

[Aragon101]

It's impossible to please everyone. No matter what your art is, there will be naysayers. If you've ever written a fanfiction, you'll know that some people will automatically love it, others will hate it, others will criticize, yadda yadda...

Since the SG franchise is a business rather than a not for profit art, they should try and appeal to a wide base. SGU tried and FAILED that. Now they need to learn from their mistakes...

That won't happen though, BW and JM are so convinced of their own fart's pine fresh smell, they'll say that SGU was the best Stargate Series EVER. The fans will boo, and they'll ignore it thinking they're important.

I just hope Ronald D Moore has a nice chuckle at their expense.

 

[Aragon101]

TPTB wanted to get the critical acclaim, which the BSG makers got. They didn't succeed obviously. So they are angry, disappointed, annoyed, feel unfair treated, and so on. As a reaction they lash out at everyone, who don't like SGU.

It is quite simple, they have all HUGE egos, so they would never think it is their own fault, that so few people like SGU. It must be some one's else fault and the SG1/SGA fans, who don't like SGU, are their main targets to vent their frustration.

Next thing you know, they'll send cease and desist letters to fanfic writers for "taking away potential clients of their show."

LOL

 

[Rac80]

TPTB wanted to get the critical acclaim, which the BSG makers got. They didn't succeed obviously. So they are angry, disappointed, annoyed, feel unfair treated, and so on. As a reaction they lash out at everyone, who don't like SGU.

It is quite simple, they have all HUGE egos, so they would never think it is their own fault, that so few people like SGU. It must be some one's else fault and the SG1/SGA fans, who don't like SGU, are their main targets to vent their frustration.

isn't it nice they see us as all powerful! when an ego-maniac is aftraid of what I have to say...it's been a good day! :sgufan:


no my friend, the cease and desist is because the fanfic writers are BETTER!

 

[Aragon101]

Hmmm I'm having good ideas for SGU*S, BAD for SGU Will need a bit to see if it's possible

 

[Gatefan1976]

TPTB wanted to get the critical acclaim, which the BSG makers got. They didn't succeed obviously. So they are angry, disappointed, annoyed, feel unfair treated, and so on. As a reaction they lash out at everyone, who don't like SGU.

Oh, so they are acting like "Rabid SGA fans" rather than "paid profesionals" eh?

I wonder how it feels to get the foot you jammed up someone elses arse jammed up your own? Karma is such a fun thing.

Calling Mr pot, Mr pot, we have a call from a Mr kettle, will you accept the charges?

****wits.

 

[Night Fury]

I am wondering if

1) They realize the damage to their own careers. They are insulting their own fans , Fans that allowed them to have a franchise that was as successful as it has been. They are showing that they don't care and think very little of the people that got there where they are. After a while people will see their name associated with a project and they will not watch ultimately hurting themselves no one else.

2) Do tptb even realize that while they are idiots that have never had sex and still have mommy cut the crust off their sandwiches because they can't be trusted with anything sharp, there are those of us that are perfectly capable people that don't need to see a show filled with soft core porn (and bad soft core porn) because we actually know what sex is.

I know it is not possible to please all the people that watch the show but they are really writing stuff that they wish would happen to them and then turning around and insulting the people that don't want to see the wet dreams of mid-aged men.

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

TPTB seem to delude themselves into thinking that we are a bunch of marginalised, fringe, basement dwelling lunatics/hikikomori & do not represent the majority of the fanbase...... WRONG! - the ratings & lack of good critical receptions should speak volumes to them as that is what TPTB are after & it also shows that many of the fans have turned their backs on the show (not just our poultry 100 members here). I hate to have to keep reiterating this point but we are the vocal minority of an other wise apathetic & silent majority.

 

[Rac80]

I am wondering if

1) They realize the damage to their own careers. They are insulting their own fans , Fans that allowed them to have a franchise that was as successful as it has been. They are showing that they don't care and think very little of the people that got there where they are. After a while people will see their name associated with a project and they will not watch ultimately hurting themselves no one else.

2) Do tptb even realize that while they are idiots that have never had sex and still have mommy cut the crust off their sandwiches because they can't be trusted with anything sharp, there are those of us that are perfectly capable people that don't need to see a show filled with soft core porn (and bad soft core porn) because we actually know what sex is.

I know it is not possible to please all the people that watch the show but they are really writing stuff that they wish would happen to them and then turning around and insulting the people that don't want to see the wet dreams of mid-aged men.

yep girl, I know what you mean....the porn they are doing are reminisent of the 70's porn...cheesey music and all (James biting her lip ...oh give me a break!) as I have said several times I would rather being having sex than watching it on tv.

TPTB seem to delude themselves into thinking that we are a bunch of marginalised, fringe, basement dwelling lunatics/hikikomori & do not represent the majority of the fanbase...... WRONG! - the ratings & lack of good critical receptions should speak volumes to them as that is what TPTB are after & it also shows that many of the fans have turned their backs on the show (not just our poultry 100 members here). I hate to have to keep reiterating this point but we are the vocal minority of an other wise apathetic & silent majority.

As I have stated before that seems to be a problem in US society at least...whomever disagrees with you is wacko and fringe nutjobs. totally ignoring that fact that reasonable people can disagree without resorting to childish name calling....but then with sgpoo's PTB, "CHILDISH" sums it up!

 

[Betty_Buttsecks]

"Blame is better to give than receive"

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

"Blame is better to give than receive"

Hhhhhmmmmmmm.

 

[Overmind One]

THAT is what irks me the most and makes me smirk at the same time.

TPTB seem to delude themselves into thinking that we are a bunch of marginalised, fringe, basement dwelling lunatics/hikikomori & do not represent the majority of the fanbase...... WRONG! - the ratings & lack of good critical receptions should speak volumes to them as that is what TPTB are after & it also shows that many of the fans have turned their backs on the show (not just our poultry 100 members here). I hate to have to keep reiterating this point but we are the vocal minority of an other wise apathetic & silent majority.

THAT, my friend, is what irks me the most about TPTB. They have attempted to stereotype us when we really cant be stereotyped and thats why science fiction is a separate genre from all others, even though it may contain elements from other genres. Its the "mainstream audience" who can most easily be catagorized, since they are the thickest part of the market bell curve. The appeal of shows like Glee, Biggest Loser, Lost, Ghost Hunters and Wrestling is banal and simple IMHO. Science fiction and high drama are for a smaller more eclectic crowd, even when done poorly. But this show has no appeal to science fiction fans, and its too much outside the traditional "drama" formula to work for the drama loving crowd. So they have a lame duck of a show which is only still on the air because TPTB are slow and dullwitted. They need to see the numbers drop below a certain threshhold before they do something, and they will be too late. Why is their learning curve so SLOW? Fans respond quickly and decisively on whether they will watch a show or not. TPTB should know what we want to see and produce the appropriate product...if they want viewers, that is.

 

[Ebeneezer]

Ever since Beckett was killed off the writers have had to deal with organised hate campaigns that they hadn't done in the past, so it's understandable that their response to criticisms have become overly defensive. Not that I'm defending Brads rant, it was a stupid thing to do, as he himself has admitted.

 

[Rac80]

same old same old!

THAT, my friend, is what irks me the most about TPTB. They have attempted to stereotype us when we really cant be stereotyped and thats why science fiction is a separate genre from all others, even though it may contain elements from other genres. Its the "mainstream audience" who can most easily be catagorized, since they are the thickest part of the market bell curve. The appeal of shows like Glee, Biggest Loser, Lost, Ghost Hunters and Wrestling is banal and simple IMHO. Science fiction and high drama are for a smaller more eclectic crowd, even when done poorly. But this show has no appeal to science fiction fans, and its too much outside the traditional "drama" formula to work for the drama loving crowd. So they have a lame duck of a show which is only still on the air because TPTB are slow and dullwitted. They need to see the numbers drop below a certain threshhold before they do something, and they will be too late. Why is their learning curve so SLOW? Fans respond quickly and decisively on whether they will watch a show or not. TPTB should know what we want to see and produce the appropriate product...if they want viewers, that is.

yep they insist WE are the uneducated dullards, when all evidence points the contrary. We are mature, highly educated, and a more diverse crowd than the slavering squeedrones or TPTB themselves! sucks to be them huh?

 

[Rac80]

squeedrone is too young to remember....

Ever since Beckett was killed off the writers have had to deal with organised hate campaigns that they hadn't done in the past, so it's understandable that their response to criticisms have become overly defensive. Not that I'm defending Brads rant, it was a stupid thing to do, as he himself has admitted.

hey junior...it all began with Daniel jackson being killed off in SG1--- HUGE campaign that made the save carson beckett campaign look like a kindergarten class! FYI- I never wanted them to bring back either character! Let the dead stay DEAD!

 

[Mr. A]

Ever since Beckett was killed off the writers have had to deal with organised hate campaigns that they hadn't done in the past, so it's understandable that their response to criticisms have become overly defensive. Not that I'm defending Brads rant, it was a stupid thing to do, as he himself has admitted.

Drop the "hate" mantra - people won't start believing it just because you have repeated it in every single post up to now. The "Save Beckett Campaign" wasn't a hate campaign, it was a love campaign for the very popular character that fans did not want to see killed off just for shock effect.
The writers get paid to write shows for us fans. We support the shows or not. If they can't deal with criticism then they should look for another job. Or are you an SGU writer understandably fretting for your job right now?
There may have been brat rants on every side of every argument, so what's your point? That we shouldn't be able to criticize anything because some people go over the top? Do you yourself always take everything bent over because protest is always "hateful"??

 

[Ebeneezer]

I wasn't referring to the Beckett campaign, I was referring to the Keller hate. There's a pretty big difference between voicing a dislike for something in the appropriate thread, and heavily trolling the boards with character bashing waiting for someone to bite, which is unfortunately what happened on Gateworld. It's the reason the anti-threads were created, to try and stop those people ruining the board for the rest of us.

The writers get paid to write shows for us fans.

No they don't, that's the problem. The writers get paid to make an entertaining show, not to pander to one section of fandom in particular. They have zero obligation to write something that you specifically, or any particular group of fans want to see. This I think it the fundamental problem with these 'campaigns', the unjustified sense of entitlement that they bring. Just because the writers might make something that you don't like, that doesn't mean they've done something 'wrong'.

 

[Rac80]

I wasn't referring to the Beckett campaign, I was referring to the Keller hate. <snipped for space>

Don't even get me started on theKeller Hate campaigns...those were some seriously sick people...and many of those involved are among the sgu squeedropnes on GW. I was Pro-Keller and was disgusted by the attitudes of Lahela, Arica15, etc... Those broads are seriously mentally ill.