THE EXPANSE --it's premise, plot and socio-political implications

[Overmind One]

It could be an interesting story (and premise) if done intelligently and maturely; not bogged down in cheap soap-fi melodrama. Hopefully they get it right.

I would like to hear your commentary after watching it as well...

I still cannot seem to get to an hour of viewing before I get antsy and want to watch something else or do something else. It isnt horrible either, it just does not grab my attention. The visuals did when I first tried to watch it. I will not say it is horrible because I still do not "get" what they are doing here. Underneath it all is the premise they have chosen for the show. It reminds me of how I felt about Dexter. I just could not get past the fact that the show was about a serial killer as protagonist. I still will not watch it for that reason. This show is not quite like that, there is no serial killer and the protagonists are not "bad guys" per se.

I hope I have a different view after getting through it finally.

 

[Overmind One]

Okay, I made it through.

I just finished it moments ago, so everything is fresh in my head. One of the things I realize that I did not like when I was attempting to watch it was that none of the characters had been developed to any degree. Holden the new XO is the show's lead guy from what I can see. His crew is being introduced to us slowly, but the pacing is a bit on the slower side. We have Detective Miller who is exactly what you might expect a Detective Miller to be. He wears a fedora hat and a futuristic future transparent iPhone (with a cracked screen for kicks). It is hard to keep up where you are in terms of locations when you watch this show. Is it on a ship? Is it underground? Are you on earth or on Ceres? They do not give you a way to easily determine where you are in a given scene except by who is there and what is happening.

Again, I need to say that the CGI and special effects in this are exceptionally stunning. The show's production values are off the scale. VERY expensive looking and high quality. I am hoping that this is not a super expensive show, but I doubt it. They have custom costuming, several real sets, and nifty, expensive looking props.

The story is pure Space Opera. That means that it is drama and interpersonal relationship based, sorta in the vein of BSG but much better and with a little more edge to it. The futuristic feel of it is tempered by the extras and some of the locales which look more contemporary with today (bars, stores, beer cans, 70's style shirts). The drama is not overdone, but this is definitely a drama and not science fiction. It does make you feel like this is in the future in a big way.

I might come to like this show with more episodes. I would say it's worth a watch. If it keeps your interest throughout, that is a good sign you will likely enjoy the coming episodes. I am optimistically cautious...

 

[ecgordon]

I've said this several times already, but some may have missed it. There will be ten episodes in the first season, premiering at 10pm Eastern, Monday Dec. 14 on Syfy, with the second episode the following night. Subsequent eps will be on Tuesdays at 10, but I don't know yet whether that includes the week between Christmas and New Years. A second season has been ordered, but of course if the first doesn't get the ratings they like they may cancel it. I'm not a Nielsen household, and I've never known anyone who was, but that doesn't mean I can't make a difference. Just by talking it up on message boards and social media, someone who is with Nielsen might see it and give it a look.

There have been five novels and a handful of shorter stories published so far, with the sixth announced for June of next year. At least three more have been ordered by the publisher, so there's no end to the stories they can tell on TV...but only if it's successful right now. My list of favorite TV shows that got only one season, or less, is already very long. I don't want this one to be added to that list.

It always surprises me that people who I would assume are intelligent and like good serialized SF are so quick to judge a show. What difference does it make if the scenario is something you don't think is likely to happen in the stated time period? What difference does it make if there are inter-personal relationships and not just slam-bang action. They're people after all, relationships and sex are just as much a part of life as anything else. It's just a story, designed to highlight how different characters react to events. Very few SF authors would ever claim they are predicting the future, they are just constructing a world that best suits the story they want to tell. And anyone who thinks that just because man advances enough to colonize the solar system and develop revolutionary technologies, that he won't still be petty and vindictive, powerful and greedy, or the opposite, downtrodden and resentful, and that war wouldn't happen in that scenario, surely doesn't know much about human nature.

 

[Overmind One]

I've said this several times already, but some may have missed it. There will be ten episodes in the first season, premiering at 10pm Eastern, Monday Dec. 14 on Syfy, with the second episode the following night. Subsequent eps will be on Tuesdays at 10, but I don't know yet whether that includes the week between Christmas and New Years. A second season has been ordered, but of course if the first doesn't get the ratings they like they may cancel it. I'm not a Nielsen household, and I've never known anyone who was, but that doesn't mean I can't make a difference. Just by talking it up on message boards and social media, someone who is with Nielsen might see it and give it a look.

There have been five novels and a handful of shorter stories published so far, with the sixth announced for June of next year. At least three more have been ordered by the publisher, so there's no end to the stories they can tell on TV...but only if it's successful right now. My list of favorite TV shows that got only one season, or less, is already very long. I don't want this one to be added to that list.

It always surprises me that people who I would assume are intelligent and like good serialized SF are so quick to judge a show. What difference does it make if the scenario is something you don't think is likely to happen in the stated time period? What difference does it make if there are inter-personal relationships and not just slam-bang action. They're people after all, relationships and sex are just as much a part of life as anything else. It's just a story, designed to highlight how different characters react to events. Very few SF authors would ever claim they are predicting the future, they are just constructing a world that best suits the story they want to tell. And anyone who thinks that just because man advances enough to colonize the solar system and develop revolutionary technologies, that he won't still be petty and vindictive, powerful and greedy, or the opposite, downtrodden and resentful, and that war wouldn't happen in that scenario, surely doesn't know much about human nature.

Well, like I said, I think the show has potential. The reason I am not excited about it is because it is interpersonal drama in the form of a Space Opera (a soap opera in space). We have already had SO MUCH of that. Stargate Universe, NuBSG, Ascension, Falling Skies, Terra Nova, Defiance, Extant, Caprica...where is the science fiction? I am a science fiction fan first and foremost. Good science fiction shows to me which are new are Sense8, Humans, Dark Matter (this barely qualifies, but it does). It is not enough to take a soap opera and just dress everyone in space suits and put them on a spaceship. Ever since NuBSG in 2004, everything has tried to be a space opera centering on interpersonal relationships in a serialized fashion.

As far as human nature, I think that the track that Humanity is on right now is favoring a more unified world and not one where the corporate interests and moneyed entities are gaining control of everything. I also do not see the status quo of western capitalism being the system of choice for a bright future. I do not see how earth's colony on Mars would become an independent military colony at odds with earth. And the belters are treated as third worlders even though they supply both Mars and earth with resources? That does not make sense. It is not intelligent. Only a handful of nations are petty and vindictive, powerful and greedy. I see those nations losing influence, not gaining it.

As far as this show goes, I will watch a few episodes of it. But right now I'm neither here or there with it. I don't think I am being particularly unkind to it at all. I am just giving my honest review. Hopefully others will give their views too.

 

[ecgordon]

As far as human nature, I think that the track that Humanity is on right now is favoring a more unified world and not one where the corporate interests and moneyed entities are gaining control of everything.

I'd love to have some of whatever you've been smoking.

 

[Overmind One]

I'd love to have some of whatever you've been smoking.

I dont smoke. I live in California, and I am an optimist. I see de-centralization trending, not corporatism. I watch as the nation becomes more socialistic and less capitalistic. I am watching as giant corporations start seeing less profit. I do not see corporations co-opting space technology for profit in the future. I do not see money lasting into the time when we are able to colonize space.

There is nothing crazy or illogical about any of those ideas. Star Trek managed to make their universe work just fine without any of that crap.

 

[shavedape]

It always surprises me that people who I would assume are intelligent and like good serialized SF are so quick to judge a show. What difference does it make if the scenario is something you don't think is likely to happen in the stated time period? What difference does it make if there are inter-personal relationships and not just slam-bang action. They're people after all, relationships and sex are just as much a part of life as anything else. It's just a story, designed to highlight how different characters react to events. Very few SF authors would ever claim they are predicting the future, they are just constructing a world that best suits the story they want to tell. And anyone who thinks that just because man advances enough to colonize the solar system and develop revolutionary technologies, that he won't still be petty and vindictive, powerful and greedy, or the opposite, downtrodden and resentful, and that war wouldn't happen in that scenario, surely doesn't know much about human nature.

I'm not against drama in a scifi setting. In fact I'm not against inter-personal drama in scifi. That's kind of the point of science fiction, to show the effects that the futuristic science has upon the humans in the story. What I am against is stupid inter-personal melodrama. That is just insulting to the intelligence of the viewers and it shows a lack of writing prowess on the part of the writers. Science fiction doesn't have to be slam-bang action. In fact it doesn't have to have much "action" at all in order to be good. But it needs to be honest and sincere towards the genre and not just use it as window dressing.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm not against drama in a scifi setting. In fact I'm not against inter-personal drama in scifi. That's kind of the point of science fiction, to show the effects that the futuristic science has upon the humans in the story. What I am against is stupid inter-personal melodrama. That is just insulting to the intelligence of the viewers and it shows a lack of writing prowess on the part of the writers. Science fiction doesn't have to be slam-bang action. In fact it doesn't have to have much "action" at all in order to be good. But it needs to be honest and sincere towards the genre and not just use it as window dressing.

That was a great comment. You should watch this. I would definitely not call this melodrama. There was no scene in it where things slowed to a crawl while two people had a long emotional conversation about their feelings. There is also not any slam-bang action to speak of so far, so what is left is a loose salad of drama, OUTSTANDING visuals, an attractive cast, and a show universe that just starts out the way it is without giving any backstory of how it got that way (other than the opening syopsis). It's too early for me to really decide whether or not I like it or hate it. For me, it's an overall "meh". Not bad or good, just something to watch because it's new and in space. I will see how that changes with more episodes.

I think it is worth a watch. Maybe I will watch it again today. I did not think I missed anything the last time I watched. I did not pause it or get up to do anything.

 

[shavedape]

I'll probably catch it on SyFy.

 

[Jim of WVa]

I dont smoke. I live in California, and I am an optimist. I see de-centralization trending, not corporatism. I watch as the nation becomes more socialistic and less capitalistic. I am watching as giant corporations start seeing less profit. I do not see corporations co-opting space technology for profit in the future. I do not see money lasting into the time when we are able to colonize space.

There is nothing crazy or illogical about any of those ideas. Star Trek managed to make their universe work just fine without any of that crap.

Star Trek is fluffy. See, I do not have to be homophobic.

 

[Jim of WVa]

Atomic Rockets Seal of Approval:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sealofapproval.php#id--Movies--The_Expanse

 

[Overmind One]

Atomic Rockets Seal of Approval:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sealofapproval.php#id--Movies--The_Expanse

View attachment 32194

THIS really helped! The stuff on that site really gets this show. And they correctly pointed out the science fiction in this thing which I did not give it credit for. It explained some of the things I saw in that first episode that made no sense to me. The guy hanging on the supports with no chains or restraints was a Belter, and he was suffering the 1G gravity of earth. I did notice the reverse burn of the Canterbury, even though I felt that such a ship would be able to turn more efficiently. They pointed out the new cinematographic techniques like filming from inside the helmets, and they explain why I could not place the accent of the people on Ceres.

This sort of backstory needs to make it into the show. I think ecgordon has read the books which likely fill much of it in too. I will give it a good shot before pinning a tail on it.

 

[Bluce Ree]

A future without cultural Marxists. Sounds good to me.

How's that pure capitalism worked out for you so far?

 

[ecgordon]

I think ecgordon has read the books...

Nah...I just wrote my review as a guess as to what the books were about.

I have included the link to my book review page several times already, although at the current time there is some glitch in my .net account. However, I also purchased a .com domain, and that is still active. If you want some background information for the show check it out here - http://templetongate.com/expanse.htm - but I suggest that if you haven't read any of the books yet then don't go past the comments on the first one, Leviathan Wakes.

 

[Overmind One]

Nah...I just wrote my review as a guess as to what the books were about.

I have included the link to my book review page several times already, although at the current time there is some glitch in my .net account. However, I also purchased a .com domain, and that is still active. If you want some background information for the show check it out here - http://templetongate.com/expanse.htm - but I suggest that if you haven't read any of the books yet then don't go past the comments on the first one, Leviathan Wakes.

You have even BETTER information on your website. You are quite the literature buff, I can see. That helped a lot too.

 

[Joelist]

Okay I caught it on Amazon.

Setting wise it sort of resembles the early future histories of authors like Larry Niven. It has a UN on Earth and a Belter society. It also has some darker elements mixed in that seem to come from the original Total Recall film. As a story setting it is fine with me although it does lack fuller exposition - but then again even in the 44 minute premiere it already has more explanation of its setting than Defiance got in three seasons...

The Science Fiction elements were to me well implemented. I loved finally seeing ships in space maneuvering using vectored thrust (which is how a sublight vessel would do it as it is the most energy efficient way) and also really liked the concept of Ceres as an artificial world (hollowed out asteroid with artificial sunlight). The Ceres concept is right out of Larry Niven's "Tales of Known Space". I also caught and liked the references throughout to the effects of life in low to zero gravity on people over generations.

Story wise it was a bit more "meh" simply because it is the first part of a serial and there was not enough explanation of the characters or even the two crimes shown to totally hook me. In that respect they almost jammed too much stuff into 44 minutes. Some elements (like the gratuitous sex scene) could have been dumped and the time used to focus in more on the main story. Overall, while it was nowhere near as bad as SGU or NuBSG in the "soap fi" department it did feel a little unfocused.

Is it worth seeing some more? To me yes. That said, if they don't sharpen the focus of the show more it will start to be muddled. And yes the CGI was good.

 

[ecgordon]

There's an interview with the books' authors on the Wikia, in which Daniel Abraham said that Niven's Known Space was a strong influence.

 

[YJ02]

So I have read little of what others here have typed on the first ep

now

when was the book(s) written? Was the first book written before or after nuBSG? If after, then I see more "hey let's try to recreate that BSG thing (the 'happy accident" part that many ppl did like that is)" with the sex stuff (sex is fine so long has it has a fit to the story-and why do these shows on SYFY always have to have a whorehouse in it?) and the ah SO CUTESY MADE UP LANGUAGE thing

like "frak" we now have "sa-sa" whatever that is supposed to be

If the book was written before nuBSG then, ok, I'll go with it

other stuff

didn't see them used, but are those gun powder firearms? When they went aboard the derelict vessel and the back up man had a ar15 stylized rifle, if he were to have shot it, just where would the round have gone in zero g?

AND -It would seem their ships have glass and NOT transparent aluminum (now that ought to take you back to some long ago thread-speak )

and now the UN is in the business of torture-how ironic

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unlike OM1-I do think that a possible future would have more commoditizing of things. a price on and for everything; air,water, fuel, living space, dirt,etc,etc

corporations are sadly here to stay and people being people, will always find a way to make someone else make a profit for them. there is no motivation for a ST style give and take what is needed type of thing. Now me? I would LOVE to see a move on a large scale to something akin to communitarianism (note-NOT communism and not necessarily socialism either) but Big Brother and his cousin Big Corp would have no money making (or other instrument of value) stake in such a system

and it exists now-this commoditization of everything.

companies have even found a way to market and profit from our (net users) random thoughts that we either express through web searches or in what we type/say online

that whole data mining thing and targeted advertising is a big money maker

It is only going to increase and worsen for all of us 99% "little guys"

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going on that

I can totally see how corps and corporatized governance will move to make waste to the entire Sol system

stripping Ceres of its Ice and Titan of its methane/ bombarding and atomizing asteroids for their precious and rare earth metal contents

they will,in some way, take advantage (again) of the lesser ppl's of Earth; making them feel "big" of themselves by sending them to tech schools and learning to fly ships and transports and/or how to do the tech and manual labor jobs that these exploitations will require. And then. like the man who had his arm ripped off by that ice ball, be maimed and left to the side with a small payment and some 'bread and circus' free access (like say "a life long pass to the space bordello of your choice paid by THE Company" kind of thing) with, of course, a extremely stipulative non disclosure agreement signed and digitized to the cloud.


Yeah OM, the future is not going to be rosey for any of our descendants who ARE NOT in the 1%. The way I see it, the only ppl who will truly be able to live free will be those who continue to drop out of society and refuse to play the corporate game.

 

[YJ02]

Okay I caught it on Amazon.

Setting wise it sort of resembles the early future histories of authors like Larry Niven. It has a UN on Earth and a Belter society. It also has some darker elements mixed in that seem to come from the original Total Recall film. As a story setting it is fine with me although it does lack fuller exposition - but then again even in the 44 minute premiere it already has more explanation of its setting than Defiance got in three seasons...

The Science Fiction elements were to me well implemented. I loved finally seeing ships in space maneuvering using vectored thrust (which is how a sublight vessel would do it as it is the most energy efficient way) and also really liked the concept of Ceres as an artificial world (hollowed out asteroid with artificial sunlight). The Ceres concept is right out of Larry Niven's "Tales of Known Space". I also caught and liked the references throughout to the effects of life in low to zero gravity on people over generations.

Story wise it was a bit more "meh" simply because it is the first part of a serial and there was not enough explanation of the characters or even the two crimes shown to totally hook me. In that respect they almost jammed too much stuff into 44 minutes. Some elements (like the gratuitous sex scene) could have been dumped and the time used to focus in more on the main story. Overall, while it was nowhere near as bad as SGU or NuBSG in the "soap fi" department it did feel a little unfocused.

Is it worth seeing some more? To me yes. That said, if they don't sharpen the focus of the show more it will start to be muddled. And yes the CGI was good.

yes, just how does one have sex in zero g? don't see how the whole "bump and grind" would even be possible

hopefully,as the series progresses, these things will just have been that often used first ep "catch them and keep them" kind of thing and the focus will be on storyline rather then the games ppl play in their bedrooms (or starbase broom closets) thing

 

[Joelist]

The round in a gunpowder weapon would travel very fast in a straight line from the barrel. No outside oxidizer is needed because the cartridge has oxidizer in it. In fact with no air resistance muzzle velocity would be higher and only gravity would affect trajectory. The only downside would be the shooter needs to be anchored or have a thruster pack in zero gravity or they will go spinning backwards courtesy of Newton's Third Law of Motion.