Netflix Greenlights New Time-Travel Drama Travelers From Brad Wright

[Tripler]

So gonna give this one a miss . In fact I am not even going to come to this section to see any updates . That's how much I could not stand anything SGPOO . And this has all the ear markings as you guys say of brad wright doing it all wrong one more time ...frakkin tool !!!

Think I'll just go over an sit in my new vintage car and have happy thoughts about stones in a small brook with fish swimming by ... Stones belong in a brook or a sandpit or by the roadside or at the base of a hill or deep in the ocean or even a shallow pond ...Or passing through your kidneys ... but no frakin body snatchin stones goin ons ffs

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yup, there was a whole mind meld thing going on there with Spock and McCoy. The Vulcan mind meld ability was carried out through physical contact between the parties involved. It wasn't done via "temporal wifi". It wasn't done via "psychic sub-space". There had to be actual physical contact. They established this clearly in TOS.

That's not what I was talking about Ape, my reason for mentioning it is this:

Therefore the premise of someone putting their consciousness (via radio waves no less) into our brains is ridiculous as it wouldn't be possible.

Contact is not a concern, but good job on moving the complaint to the next department

Face it guys, Vulcan mysticism is magic, no matter how you want to erm, "hand wave" it away.
I'm not saying that to say ST is a fantasy show "like SW", just calling it what it is, magic.

 

[Overmind One]

That's not what I was talking about Ape, my reason for mentioning it is this:

Contact is not a concern, but good job on moving the complaint to the next department

Face it guys, Vulcan mysticism is magic, no matter how you want to erm, "hand wave" it away.
I'm not saying that to say ST is a fantasy show "like SW", just calling it what it is, magic.

Perhaps it is. The Q are also magic. But this thread is about the concept that some sort of "psychic sub space" (as Shaved put it) can be used to transmit the consciousness into somebody is absurd. It would be perfectly welcome in a magical setting where one just waves a wand or says a word and consciousness is swapped. But not one tiny iota of that can be wrapped in science fiction, and that is what makes it dumb. It sunk SGU ultimately, more than anything else (in terms of storytelling elements) IMO.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Perhaps it is. The Q are also magic. But this thread is about the concept that some sort of "psychic sub space" (as Shaved put it) can be used to transmit the consciousness into somebody is absurd. It would be perfectly welcome in a magical setting where one just waves a wand or says a word and consciousness is swapped. But not one tiny iota of that can be wrapped in science fiction, and that is what makes it dumb. It sunk SGU ultimately, more than anything else (in terms of storytelling elements) IMO.

Would you allow psychic surgery in a scifi setting?

 

[Overmind One]

Would you allow psychic surgery in a scifi setting?

Psychic surgery? LOL, no. The fact is that most of the writers of today's scifi are very light on their science knowledge. It was always this way, but the productions hired science consultants from NASA, or the military or NOAA or whichever science entity they required knowledge from to get it right. They do not bother anymore because the newer dumber audiences do not care if the science is right or if it's there at all.

 

[shavedape]

That's not what I was talking about Ape, my reason for mentioning it is this:

Contact is not a concern, but good job on moving the complaint to the next department

Face it guys, Vulcan mysticism is magic, no matter how you want to erm, "hand wave" it away.
I'm not saying that to say ST is a fantasy show "like SW", just calling it what it is, magic.

Contact is not a concern? Dude, that's a "hand wave" if ever I read one. The fact is, during a Vulcan mind meld there is actual physical contact between biological entities. This may not be science fiction but it's not magic either. It is a component of Vulcan physiology. It is also a trait exclusive to Vulcans; it's a trait of that species. A human can be the recipient of a Vulcan mind meld but humans don't have the ability to initiate mind melds on their own. It is not a human trait, simple as that.

And, again, actual physical contact is required between Vulcans and the recipients of the mind melds. This is important. Spock doesn't just "beam" his consciousness into McCoy's brain. For the transfer to occur it requires a physical pathway between entities. Physical, from the Greek root 'phys' meaning: nature, medicine, the body.

So, yeah, not magic but certainly not hand wave dismiss-able either.

 

[Overmind One]

Contact is not a concern? Dude, that's a "hand wave" if ever I read one. The fact is, during a Vulcan mind meld there is actual physical contact between biological entities. This may not be science fiction but it's not magic either. It is a component of Vulcan physiology. It is also a trait exclusive to Vulcans; it's a trait of that species. A human can be the recipient of a Vulcan mind meld but humans don't have the ability to initiate mind melds on their own. It is not a human trait, simple as that.

And, again, actual physical contact is required between Vulcans and the recipients of the mind melds. This is important. Spock doesn't just "beam" his consciousness into McCoy's brain. For the transfer to occur it requires a physical pathway between entities. Physical, from the Greek root 'phys' meaning: nature, medicine, the body.

So, yeah, not magic but certainly not hand wave dismiss-able either.

That was very well put. What I don't get is why anyone would welcome magic knowingly into science fiction stories. Many things we see in Star Trek could be considered magic (like replicators or the holodeck) because there will likely never be technology created which will be able to do things like we saw in Star Trek TNG. Perhaps we will be able to synthesize foods, but not by telling a computer what we want and then having said food appear on a plate with utensils too.

Back to the mind and consciousness thing...without physical contact and some sort of mechanism for transfer (for a Vulcan it is part of their telepathic system), it should not be possible at all. The human mind does not have a "receiver" built in to receive the transferred consciousness, and there is no way to collect "consciousness" into a signal which can be transmitted. The communications stones in SGU not only wanted us to swallow that concept, but also to believe it could take place over BILLIONS OF LIGHT YEARS. In this, Brad wants us to believe consciousness can be transferred not only to a distance, but also through time? Just LOL.

 

[Joelist]

Plus back in other threads we noted how memory works - it literally creates new biological structures in the brain:

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/thr...good-science-fiction.27341/page-8#post-868305

With this in mind the entire "katra" concept is impossible biologically. Or put another way, even if somehow you could transmit all the data into the brain and even if it had the needed available grey matter to form the new structures, once there the structures are staying.

 

[shavedape]

Plus back in other threads we noted how memory works - it literally creates new biological structures in the brain:

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/thr...good-science-fiction.27341/page-8#post-868305

With this in mind the entire "katra" concept is impossible biologically. Or put another way, even if somehow you could transmit all the data into the brain and even if it had the needed available grey matter to form the new structures, once there the structures are staying.

Good point. But I think that mind melds are more plausible (to a degree) than "temporal wifi mind control". And although the katra transfer to McCoy was a gimmicky stretch at least the new Spock body had to learn stuff as OM1 pointed out. It wasn't just an immediate full transfer of consciousness unlike the communication stones which give full remote control to people either billions of light years away or hundred of years in the future in this case.

Also, katras and mind melds aren't science fiction. They are either a mystical plot point and/or a biological character trait of an alien species. Contrast this to the SGU communication stones and to this new TV series we're discussing. Traversing time and space in these stories requires the use of futuristic technology which puts it firmly in the realm of science fiction. Or I should say attempts to sell it as science fiction, but we've already established that this premise doesn't jibe with a technical explanation of how such a thing would be possible.

In short, Brad Wright needs to explain the technology behind this mind transference ability, otherwise it's no better than mysticism, i.e. magic.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Contact is not a concern? Dude, that's a "hand wave" if ever I read one. The fact is, during a Vulcan mind meld there is actual physical contact between biological entities. This may not be science fiction but it's not magic either. It is a component of Vulcan physiology. It is also a trait exclusive to Vulcans; it's a trait of that species. A human can be the recipient of a Vulcan mind meld but humans don't have the ability to initiate mind melds on their own. It is not a human trait, simple as that.

sigh.
Contact is not a concern in what I quoted from OM, it was a specific point he raised.
Also, it is -not- a component of Vulcan Physiology, or all Vulcans could do it. All Vulcans are psychically aware, true, but they need to learn the skills involved to do any of their mysticism. Not being able to have their minds read is a part of Ferengi physiology however.
Psychic power is also not unique to Vulcans, Betazoids have it as well

And, again, actual physical contact is required between Vulcans and the recipients of the mind melds. This is important. Spock doesn't just "beam" his consciousness into McCoy's brain. For the transfer to occur it requires a physical pathway between entities. Physical, from the Greek root 'phys' meaning: nature, medicine, the body.

Again, My point is the transfer of consciousness being possible -AT ALL-, and just because a Vulcan is "touching" you, makes it no less magical BS than a "magic rock"

So, yeah, not magic but certainly not hand wave dismiss-able either.

Ok dude.................

 

[Gatefan1976]

Good point. But I think that mind melds are more plausible (to a degree) than "temporal wifi mind control". And although the katra transfer to McCoy was a gimmicky stretch at least the new Spock body had to learn stuff as OM1 pointed out. It wasn't just an immediate full transfer of consciousness unlike the communication stones which give full remote control to people either billions of light years away or hundred of years in the future in this case.

Yes, they are different.

Also, katras and mind melds aren't science fiction. They are either a mystical plot point and/or a biological character trait of an alien species. Contrast this to the SGU communication stones and to this new TV series we're discussing. Traversing time and space in these stories requires the use of futuristic technology which puts it firmly in the realm of science fiction. Or I should say attempts to sell it as science fiction, but we've already established that this premise doesn't jibe with a technical explanation of how such a thing would be possible.

They are mysticism, IE: MAGIC
They are (mind melds) -not- a Biological trait, but a learned ability.

In short, Brad Wright needs to explain the technology behind this mind transference ability, otherwise it's no better than mysticism, i.e. magic.

Like a mind meld

 

[Overmind One]

Yes, they are different.

They are mysticism, IE: MAGIC
They are (mind melds) -not- a Biological trait, but a learned ability.

Like a mind meld

I made this just for you. These two effects are EXACTLY the same technically, but one of the two glasses materialized via a replicator (tech explained in Star Trek), and the other one was "twitched" into existence by witchcraft. The only thing different is the effects wrapper and the "lore" behind what you are seeing. So, you do have to make the distinction.


I made that from still photos of glasses and coasters on my coffee table. I just added the replicator effect and sound, and the bewitched chime.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Why did you quote me for that?
(also, why is there a TARDIS materialization sound at the end of the bewitched one?)

 

[Overmind One]

Why did you quote me for that?
(also, why is there a TARDIS materialization sound at the end of the bewitched one?)

I clipped the Bewitched sound right from an episode. No Tardis sound there. I just threw that thing together in 15 minutes to demonstrate a point. This should only have been in the Borg zombie thread. My bad!

 

[Gatefan1976]

I clipped the Bewitched sound right from an episode. No Tardis sound there. I just threw that thing together in 15 minutes to demonstrate a point. This should only have been in the Borg zombie thread. My bad!

Listen to it again ,there is the TARDIS sound

 

[Overmind One]

Listen to it again ,there is the TARDIS sound

That does sound like it, but I clipped that sound from an actual episode of Bewitched on my hard disk. Does sound like it in there though.

 

[shavedape]

Yes, they are different.

They are mysticism, IE: MAGIC
They are (mind melds) -not- a Biological trait, but a learned ability.

Like a mind meld

Correction, one is magic while the other one is magic masquerading as technology.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Correction, one is magic while the other one is magic masquerading as technology.

Which witch is which?

 

[shavedape]

Which witch is which?

Vulcan witch?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Vulcan witch?

View attachment 32841