Job Market

[Quetesh]

Society will fall if we don't allow the corporations to continue to succeed. This all goes back to the fact that there really is no way to have a macro (country size econ) without the micro ( business size econ). You can scream that the big companies are all monsters, but we the customers are the ones that put the little ones out of business. I ran a small one that was put out of business by a "monster", bigger companies can use economies of scale to keep their prices lower, that is just a sad fact. We live in a world with corps that help put food on all our tables, even if we don't work for them.

Corps make money, pay their employees wages, pay the govt taxes...

Employees pay taxes, spend a portion of their money into the economy, save a portion into the banks, which the banks need to use them lend to others to stay in business...

...and many other cascade effects that will upturn the natural flow of money into the economical system.

What happens when too many large companies fail? Aside from all the people that lose their jobs initially....supply declines, then demand is greater than supply and prices rise... and we get inflation. Inflation means our money is not worth as much and our exports will drop and imports will rise. When the govt reacts to inflation to try to control it, they use fiscal policies that create a retraction in the economy which creates a recession. Our society as we know it, need these businesses to succeed to remain as close to the equilibrium that it can.

Look at what happened when the auto business crashed, the banks, or healthcare companies. It got ugly fast.

Why do corps need to take these measures not to fail is the bigger question, and the answer to this would be the moral decline of today's society. In general more people are less truthful when it comes matters of importance and willing to step over lines that a few decades ago would not have been the norm.

We simply are not bringing our kids up the same way, ie with the same morals we were brought up with or for that matter, our parents were brought up with...and so on...again.

 

[YJ02]

Society will fall if we don't allow the corporations to continue to succeed. This all goes back to the fact that there really is no way to have a macro (country size econ) without the micro ( business size econ). You can scream that the big companies are all monsters, but we the customers are the ones that put the little ones out of business. I ran a small one that was put out of business by a "monster", bigger companies can use economies of scale to keep their prices lower, that is just a sad fact. We live in a world with corps that help put food on all our tables, even if we don't work for them.

Corps make money, pay their employees wages, pay the govt taxes...

Employees pay taxes, spend a portion of their money into the economy, save a portion into the banks, which the banks need to use them lend to others to stay in business...

...and many other cascade effects that will upturn the natural flow of money into the economical system.

What happens when too many large companies fail? Aside from all the people that lose their jobs initially....supply declines, then demand is greater than supply and prices rise... and we get inflation. Inflation means our money is not worth as much and our exports will drop and imports will rise. When the govt reacts to inflation to try to control it, they use fiscal policies that create a retraction in the economy which creates a recession. Our society as we know it, need these businesses to succeed to remain as close to the equilibrium that it can.

Look at what happened when the auto business crashed, the banks, or healthcare companies. It got ugly fast.

Why do corps need to take these measures not to fail is the bigger question, and the answer to this would be the moral decline of today's society. In general more people are less truthful when it comes matters of importance and willing to step over lines that a few decades ago would not have been the norm.

We simply are not bringing our kids up the same way, ie with the same morals we were brought up with or for that matter, our parents were brought up with...and so on...again.

you are talking money and all the things that people will do to one another in pursuit of that fiat dream...

i am talking about flesh and bone, real life people and their privacy

we will only continue to talk in different directions....

all i will say in answer to this post directly is that-the big corps seemed to be doing just fine without getting all of this personal data in the past

they are just doing it now cause they can, because people allow them too. they will gather it for reasons of "in the name of.." then hold on to it, store it, trade and sell it

our private info is nothing more then another commodity for them to trade on the market

no thanks

 

[heisenberg]

Society will fall if we don't allow the corporations to continue to succeed. This all goes back to the fact that there really is no way to have a macro (country size econ) without the micro ( business size econ). You can scream that the big companies are all monsters, but we the customers are the ones that put the little ones out of business. I ran a small one that was put out of business by a "monster", bigger companies can use economies of scale to keep their prices lower, that is just a sad fact. We live in a world with corps that help put food on all our tables, even if we don't work for them.

Corps make money, pay their employees wages, pay the govt taxes...

Employees pay taxes, spend a portion of their money into the economy, save a portion into the banks, which the banks need to use them lend to others to stay in business...

...and many other cascade effects that will upturn the natural flow of money into the economical system.

What happens when too many large companies fail? Aside from all the people that lose their jobs initially....supply declines, then demand is greater than supply and prices rise... and we get inflation. Inflation means our money is not worth as much and our exports will drop and imports will rise. When the govt reacts to inflation to try to control it, they use fiscal policies that create a retraction in the economy which creates a recession. Our society as we know it, need these businesses to succeed to remain as close to the equilibrium that it can.

Look at what happened when the auto business crashed, the banks, or healthcare companies. It got ugly fast.

Why do corps need to take these measures not to fail is the bigger question, and the answer to this would be the moral decline of today's society. In general more people are less truthful when it comes matters of importance and willing to step over lines that a few decades ago would not have been the norm.

We simply are not bringing our kids up the same way, ie with the same morals we were brought up with or for that matter, our parents were brought up with...and so on...again.

Trouble is, the problem has gotten so bad that in order for things to get better, they need to get worse. . I see this coming next year. Society is going to crack next year.The financial markets are already showing signs of cracking. Not to get political but the issue surrounding South China sea is obviously a tale tale sign that there is an impending war about to break out.

 

[heisenberg]

you are talking money and all the things that people will do to one another in pursuit of that fiat dream...

i am talking about flesh and bone, real life people and their privacy

we will only continue to talk in different directions....

all i will say in answer to this post directly is that-the big corps seemed to be doing just fine without getting all of this personal data in the past

they are just doing it now cause they can, because people allow them too. they will gather it for reasons of "in the name of.." then hold on to it, store it, trade and sell it

our private info is nothing more then another commodity for them to trade on the market

no thanks

Right now everything is leveraged and on stand still. It is about to crack but just when. When a fracture first appears several more will appear and then that will short circuit the entire society.

 

[YJ02]

Right now everything is leveraged and on stand still. It is about to crack but just when. When a fracture first appears several more will appear and then that will short circuit the entire society.

more reasons to live where we do...far far away from cities and suburbs

until, and unless these companies are told or otherwise have a mind-shift and realize that people are the reason they are in business and not the seemingly current belief that we exist to spend money to give them, things will just continue to down spiral

humanity sacrificed on the altar of a flawed concept--money

 

[Overmind One]

more reasons to live where we do...far far away from cities and suburbs

until, and unless these companies are told or otherwise have a mind-shift and realize that people are the reason they are in business and not the seemingly current belief that we exist to spend money to give them, things will just continue to down spiral

humanity sacrificed on the altar of a flawed concept--money

This is why we have to connect as close to the ground as possible and remember that all of it is made possible because of a capitalistic construct. The more of our lives dependent on that construct, the more vulnerable we are to it's collapse.

 

[Quetesh]

you are talking money and all the things that people will do to one another in pursuit of that fiat dream...

i am talking about flesh and bone, real life people and their privacy

we will only continue to talk in different directions....

all i will say in answer to this post directly is that-the big corps seemed to be doing just fine without getting all of this personal data in the past

they are just doing it now cause they can, because people allow them too. they will gather it for reasons of "in the name of.." then hold on to it, store it, trade and sell it

our private info is nothing more then another commodity for them to trade on the market

no thanks

People create and run businesses to make money. I am back studying again because I want to make more money not for any BS reason I could say to just better myself. That is the way the world works. I like people and all that, but my aim is to get as high up in the corporate world I can to make cold hard cash. I find that most people (employees) just look out for themselves anywhere and with the exceptions of charities that take care of the lost souls of those truly in need, they why should that matter as a manager, director or a key player , in a large or any size Corp? It is a business, and not meant to be personal.


Big corps fail all the time, and bad hiring has a lot to do with it. I gave you one example but there are many more, this is why companies are now paying other companies to perform these checks and vet their employees. Nobody is selling any data. It is illegal in USA and most of Western Europe to use any employee or candidate personal data for any reasons other than absolute business needs ( which must be provable), they can't trade or sell it in any way. It all falls under the privacy laws in US and EU(HIPPA, DPA...). In US, you could sue their ass off and win if they did, hell, you could actually sue and win in UK for that obvious of a violation of rights. It states so on pretty much every modern day application you fill in, if you read the small print. It is also a required part of most companies new hire orientation about how their data and any stakeholder's data is handled.

They don't just do it because they can, it is simply more cost efficient to vet your employees better than to have to replace them later. These are grown up jobs we are talking about, where people handle money, make important decisions and for that matter handle the public's personal data. You really don't and should not want twits in these roles. You know what happens when you do, if they don't get canned? The customers get bad service.


You really want people that lied about their credentials handling your personal data, money or for that matter, your family's? I don't. I look at this like the TSA, those checks suck ass, but I am happy to deal with them to ensure I can fly safe. These checks suck too, but to help keep the economy stabilize, it is worth it. I was one of the 200 employees that lost their job because of those twits HR hired at my old job. Me, a person, flesh and bone, losing their job. That sucked more than the checks I had to go through to get my job now. As I said before, it goes both ways.

You are right we won't agree on this, since I already said I can see both sides. I am speaking about employers asking for data on job applications and background checks that people voluntary sign up for. Nobody is twisting your arm to go work for those companies. If you don't want to supply the info, then you don't, and they don't hire you. If people want to avoid these checks then they can go find jobs in places that choose not to perform them, hopefully the companies won't get as burned as I once when I did not.

 

[Overmind One]

People create and run businesses to make money. I am back studying again because I want to make more money not for any BS reason I could say to just better myself. That is the way the world works. I like people and all that, but my aim is to get as high up in the corporate world I can to make cold hard cash. I find that most people (employees) just look out for themselves anywhere and with the exceptions of charities that take care of the lost souls of those truly in need, they why should that matter as a manager, director or a key player , in a large or any size Corp? It is a business, and not meant to be personal.

That was me, about 20 years ago. And it reached a head about 4 years ago when I was making 6 digits for the first time in my life. But I was unhappy. I was working long hours, making myself available 24 hours a day, fretting about deadlines, and spending way more money than I should have been spending on things I did not really need to be spending on. But that is just ME. I don't think I was cut out to be a corporate wheel. I need things to be personal now.

Big corps fail all the time, and bad hiring has a lot to do with it. I gave you one example but there are many more, this is why companies are now paying other companies to perform these checks and vet their employees. Nobody is selling any data. It is illegal in USA and most of Western Europe to use any employee or candidate personal data for any reasons other than absolute business needs ( which must be provable), they can't trade or sell it in any way. It all falls under the privacy laws in US and EU(HIPPA, DPA...). In US, you could sue their ass off and win if they did, hell, you could actually sue and win in UK for that obvious of a violation of rights. It states so on pretty much every modern day application you fill in, if you read the small print. It is also a required part of most companies new hire orientation about how their data and any stakeholder's data is handled.

This I agree with. If you can't do a job, then don't say you can and waste the time of coworkers, companies, HR departments, managers, and especially the clients of the company you want to work for. I am all for testing skills and vetting employees. It is one area where you can't use nepotism, ethnic stereotypes, affirmative action or sexual favors to get work. If you don't have the skills, you don't get the job.

They don't just do it because they can, it is simply more cost efficient to vet your employees better than to have to replace them later. These are grown up jobs we are talking about, where people handle money, make important decisions and for that matter handle the public's personal data. You really don't and should not want twits in these roles. You know what happens when you do, if they don't get canned? The customers get bad service.

Bingo.

You really want people that lied about their credentials handling your personal data, money or for that matter, your family's? I don't. I look at this like the TSA, those checks suck ass, but I am happy to deal with them to ensure I can fly safe. These checks suck too, but to help keep the economy stabilize, it is worth it. I was one of the 200 employees that lost their job because of those twits HR hired at my old job. Me, a person, flesh and bone, losing their job. That sucked more than the checks I had to go through to get my job now. As I said before, it goes both ways.

You are right we won't agree on this, since I already said I can see both sides. I am speaking about employers asking for data on job applications and background checks that people voluntary sign up for. Nobody is twisting your arm to go work for those companies. If you don't want to supply the info, then you don't, and they don't hire you. If people want to avoid these checks then they can go find jobs in places that choose not to perform them, hopefully the companies won't get as burned as I once when I did not.

Totally agree. For me, this means that even at my age, I can still get great jobs because of my skills and experience and verified track record.

 

[YJ02]

i dont want anyone handling my personal data and i try to use companies that do not "require" anything more then my name address and if appropriate, DOB

they functioned well enough--probably BETTER--before all these collection and data systems were available to them

and if anyone truly thinks that companies and their products or the chance to work at one is more important then the basic RIGHT to privacy, then you are just upside down from me. Not even the army had the ability to track all this data on us when i was in. I was cleared up to a Top secret and actively held one when i needed it,again, no one had as much info on me as you are saying your company wants to hire someone

my bottom line--people are more important then any function of corporations. maybe essential corporate and govt systems like utilities and security/law need a bit more info to function right

but if you are selling chatzkis, insurance, and all manner of other "stuff" then YOU DONT NEED IT. Our money was good enough for them before they had social media existed so why not now?

this collection of all other info on employees and customers is not about providing better service but about another way to commoditize something

 

[YJ02]

You really want people that lied about their credentials handling your personal data, money or for that matter, your family's? I don't. I look at this like the TSA,

as for the TSA most ppl who apply are "moving up" from jobs at dollar general or wal mart

as for the rest, well, good on the job leadership will quickly expose if someone can't cut it

life is a risk and since "someone" said that corporations are now people then they need to risk it as well

sorry, nothing in the pursuit of money (a fake, fake dream of scoundrels and kings to be able to apply control on ppl from long ago!!!) IS EVER MORE IMPORTANT THEN Humanity

 

[YJ02]

And according to this posting, we just need to be able to socialize and collaborate to do a good job. it seems to focus on people skills and the human touch as well as bottom up leadership (the part where bosses can be fired due to employee eval's):

"I thought I should post this because I think that one of the past paradigms in the 20th century centered around credentials and job skills. You still need them today, but mostly you need to be able to effectively collaborate, and that means having social skills. An excellent article was written in 2006 about this"


https://www.gatefans.net/gforums/th...-skills-in-the-21st-century-job-market.26785/

 

[Overmind One]

as for the TSA most ppl who apply are "moving up" from jobs at dollar general or wal mart

as for the rest, well, good on the job leadership will quickly expose if someone can't cut it

life is a risk and since "someone" said that corporations are now people then they need to risk it as well

sorry, nothing in the pursuit of money (a fake, fake dream of scoundrels and kings to be able to apply control on ppl from long ago!!!) IS EVER MORE IMPORTANT THEN Humanity

And according to this posting, we just need to be able to socialize and collaborate to do a good job. it seems to focus on people skills and the human touch as well as bottom up leadership (the part where bosses can be fired due to employee eval's):

"I thought I should post this because I think that one of the past paradigms in the 20th century centered around credentials and job skills. You still need them today, but mostly you need to be able to effectively collaborate, and that means having social skills. An excellent article was written in 2006 about this"


https://www.gatefans.net/gforums/th...-skills-in-the-21st-century-job-market.26785/

This is also very very true. This is why many east and south Asian immigrants who have come here just to make money will find that they fail. The culture of "work extra hard and have no life" makes for a sourpuss and a socially inept automaton. This is also true of Americans who make it a top priority to make top grades in a college and forego social activities which would give them soft skills they need to collaborate with others. Home schooling has this same effect of crippling social skills. Nobody is a star by themselves. Everything now is a collaboration, even if the project has a figurehead.

Pursuing money feels pointless when you finally realize what money itself is. And unless you have a specific need to make "lots of money", then the path to that goal is fraught with backstabbing, backbiting and manipulation. To me, the sacrifice is more than the reward.

 

[heisenberg]

People are in for a rude awakening if they think they can fake it till they make it much more. Many companies are now outsourcing their checks for pre-employment through companies like WatchDog or HireRite and they no longer only check for criminal and credit checks.

They want copies of every school you went to, names, emails and phone numbers of not just your old boss from your last job but at least 3 references from the last 3 years and they really do contact them all, your first and last payslips from your previous jobs and proof of any qualification courses you state you may have taken. Where you have been living the last three years and 2 personal references of people from "established and respected professions" for any gaps of employment longer than 90 days.

These companies make their living by doing these checks and so I don't think they are going away anytime soon. Don't know if this has jumped the pond yet, but my company is a USA company (and so was the last one that did) and they all do it, so I assume it is like this all over anywhere in the slightest bit "corporate".

Sorry but after yesterday I saw that dishonesty always wins. This is how people are able to gain an unfair advantage over someone.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/02/...ch-and-successful-people-are-often-dishonest/

In the world it's never about the truth but how much of a bullshit artist you are.

The rich people who get to the top are broken and do these action on purpose to win over the competition. By broken, that means that they have no moral grounds or ethical boundaries. They write the rules. They also re-write them so you saying that fake it till you make it attitude doesn't work. In the real world, it always does.

It makes you wish that you weren't part of this piece of garbage that they call the human race.

 

[YJ02]

to have fair, equitable and moral society all participants in it need to be fair, equitable and moral themselves

another reason why the a Utopian "Star Trek society" will not exist any time soon

and those ppl who are not in possession of those qualities, etc, are in positions of power, wherever that may be, will only be removed through force, they will not just pack their stuff and go

not unless they are leaving the planet--- to Mars, Moon, Orbiting City/nation

one possible way for future cheats, amoral persons and the wealthy corrupt to get away from any impending and imposed morality on them:

Asgardia--its real and funded by a Billionaire

i wonder what a person's minimum worth can be and still be considered for this place?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...n-asgardia-just-launched-its-first-satellite/

 

[heisenberg]

That was me, about 20 years ago. And it reached a head about 4 years ago when I was making 6 digits for the first time in my life. But I was unhappy. I was working long hours, making myself available 24 hours a day, fretting about deadlines, and spending way more money than I should have been spending on things I did not really need to be spending on. But that is just ME. I don't think I was cut out to be a corporate wheel. I need things to be personal now.



This I agree with. If you can't do a job, then don't say you can and waste the time of coworkers, companies, HR departments, managers, and especially the clients of the company you want to work for. I am all for testing skills and vetting employees. It is one area where you can't use nepotism, ethnic stereotypes, affirmative action or sexual favors to get work. If you don't have the skills, you don't get the job.



Bingo.



Totally agree. For me, this means that even at my age, I can still get great jobs because of my skills and experience and verified track record.

I agree that working for the corporation sucks the life out of you. It doesn't buy happiness but how do I get out of this rot? I don't want to be part of this perpetuating corrupt system we are entangled in. It leads to more backstabbing, more heart breaks to which I have both witnessed and been a victim of.

 

[heisenberg]

to have fair, equitable and moral society all participants in it need to be fair, equitable and moral themselves

another reason why the a Utopian "Star Trek society" will not exist any time soon

and those ppl who are not in possession of those qualities, etc, are in positions of power, wherever that may be, will only be removed through force, they will not just pack their stuff and go

not unless they are leaving the planet--- to Mars, Moon, Orbiting City/nation

one possible way for future cheats, amoral persons and the wealthy corrupt to get away from any impending and imposed morality on them:

Asgardia--its real and funded by a Billionaire

i wonder what a person's minimum worth can be and still be considered for this place?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...n-asgardia-just-launched-its-first-satellite/

This corporate world you lose the humanity in you. You start to pursue and chase the dollar signs. Hell even these celebrities do the same thing these days. They get engrossed in this fantasy world that money buys happiness. lol It doesn't. It just keeps the rascals that want money away. To me, personal development and admiring the human achievement and fucking with the system. I need help with personal development.

 

[Joelist]

Makes one wish for the return of trade schools as opposed to univerisities which impart no useful skills, and also of the notion of apprenticeship. Recruit people fresh out of High School and apprentice them under recognized proficient individuals in the occupation. Once they demonstrate they are also proficient they leave apprenticeship and are "full rank" so to speak. And this would work for pretty much any occupation even STEM. This would ensure people enter the workforce with actual, marketable skills that they are provably able to perform.

 

[heisenberg]

Makes one wish for the return of trade schools as opposed to univerisities which impart no useful skills, and also of the notion of apprenticeship. Recruit people fresh out of High School and apprentice them under recognized proficient individuals in the occupation. Once they demonstrate they are also proficient they leave apprenticeship and are "full rank" so to speak. And this would work for pretty much any occupation even STEM. This would ensure people enter the workforce with actual, marketable skills that they are provably able to perform.

My love has been music/science and the arts. The very fabric of humanity and I have worked with incredibly gifted musician and have been blessed to be part of their life, but I have been left heart broken to see what has happened to their career. Thanks to this crony captalism.

 

[Joelist]

And this same approach would work there as well.

 

[YJ02]

Makes one wish for the return of trade schools

Mike Rowe for trade school "czar"?

we have a few trades schools in our area

1 mainly focuses on the powdered metal industry

the others are classic trades-carpentry, hvac, plumbing, masonry, etc

only a very few PA counties have public HS level vo-techs though.