Job Market

[Joelist]

I do like Mike Rowe precisely because he values all professions and encourages people to learn real trades. And yes, to me trade schools should be massively expanded and universities radically dialed back. Get the university back to its ancient roots as the place people who already knew a trade went to learn something like the arts or philosophy or other such. But learn that trade first.

 

[heisenberg]

I do like Mike Rowe precisely because he values all professions and encourages people to learn real trades. And yes, to me trade schools should be massively expanded and universities radically dialed back. Get the university back to its ancient roots as the place people who already knew a trade went to learn something like the arts or philosophy or other such. But learn that trade first.

I can tell you first hand that university is one big waste of money and time. It doesn't teach you anything. Most people don't learn anything. Most people don't remember anything. I know that 20 years ago, it was used as a way of learning and following your passion, but now it has become a cash grab and the teaching standard keeps dropping further and further and I guess I shouldn't be the one to blame for not passing University. To me the way you learn is by doing it by hand.

 

[heisenberg]

This is also very very true. This is why many east and south Asian immigrants who have come here just to make money will find that they fail. The culture of "work extra hard and have no life" makes for a sourpuss and a socially inept automaton. This is also true of Americans who make it a top priority to make top grades in a college and forego social activities which would give them soft skills they need to collaborate with others. Home schooling has this same effect of crippling social skills. Nobody is a star by themselves. Everything now is a collaboration, even if the project has a figurehead.

Pursuing money feels pointless when you finally realize what money itself is. And unless you have a specific need to make "lots of money", then the path to that goal is fraught with backstabbing, backbiting and manipulation. To me, the sacrifice is more than the reward.

I want to build a sustaining career that is full of joy and happiness. Not drudgery which is what works feels like but some people get used to it. It's this same slave mentality imposed during the dawn of civilization where the system we are in is separated into classes and that people down the food chain are paid pennies while people at the top are allowed to break the law and get away with it because they both have the power and capabilities to do so. It's the same way religion works to feed people lies that there is a Heaven and Hell and there is a stupid moron looking down on you and watching your every move. I firstly want to decentralize everything. This goes for Wealth and food so that I am not a slave to the corporation. Given that we are in a centralized system, we have to suffer the consequences of other people's action. This whole globalization bullshit.

 

[Overmind One]

I want to build a sustaining career that is full of joy and happiness. Not drudgery which is what works feels like but some people get used to it. It's this same slave mentality imposed during the dawn of civilization where the system we are in is separated into classes and that people down the food chain are paid pennies while people at the top are allowed to break the law and get away with it because they both have the power and capabilities to do so. It's the same way religion works to feed people lies that there is a Heaven and Hell and there is a stupid moron looking down on you and watching your every move. I firstly want to decentralize everything. This goes for Wealth and food so that I am not a slave to the corporation. Given that we are in a centralized system, we have to suffer the consequences of other people's action. This whole globalization bullshit.

You are talking about socialism. And I agree with you. Most people are conditioned to think socialism is such a bad thing, and it really is not. The very first civilizations were socialist. Tribal communities were all socialist. Ancient civilizations which thrived for THOUSANDS of years were socialist. Most of the first world right now in 2018 is socialist. The EU, Canada and even the UK are socialist. America is a throwback in terms of government systems, and capitalism is concentrating the wealth at the top where it does not belong.

 

[heisenberg]

You are talking about socialism. And I agree with you. Most people are conditioned to think socialism is such a bad thing, and it really is not. The very first civilizations were socialist. Tribal communities were all socialist. Ancient civilizations which thrived for THOUSANDS of years were socialist. Most of the first world right now in 2018 is socialist. The EU, Canada and even the UK are socialist. America is a throwback in terms of government systems, and capitalism is concentrating the wealth at the top where it does not belong.

To me, captalism is slavery and the thing is we are given this illusion that capitalism is a great thing when deep down, it's not. You either be a slave or you enslave others.

 

[heisenberg]

You are talking about socialism. And I agree with you. Most people are conditioned to think socialism is such a bad thing, and it really is not. The very first civilizations were socialist. Tribal communities were all socialist. Ancient civilizations which thrived for THOUSANDS of years were socialist. Most of the first world right now in 2018 is socialist. The EU, Canada and even the UK are socialist. America is a throwback in terms of government systems, and capitalism is concentrating the wealth at the top where it does not belong.

These people that run the world are very sick individuals.

 

[Overmind One]

I want to build a sustaining career that is full of joy and happiness. Not drudgery which is what works feels like but some people get used to it. It's this same slave mentality imposed during the dawn of civilization where the system we are in is separated into classes and that people down the food chain are paid pennies while people at the top are allowed to break the law and get away with it because they both have the power and capabilities to do so. It's the same way religion works to feed people lies that there is a Heaven and Hell and there is a stupid moron looking down on you and watching your every move. I firstly want to decentralize everything. This goes for Wealth and food so that I am not a slave to the corporation. Given that we are in a centralized system, we have to suffer the consequences of other people's action. This whole globalization bullshit.

The 5 Cardinal Rules of Employment (mine) - You are forced to have a job if you want nice things in capitalistic countries. Your job is your means to get income. It is not required to give you happiness or joy (although those things are awesome to get if you can!), That means the following:

1. Do the job assigned to you to the best of your abilities.
2. Note how your managers assess your work and request feedback from immediate supervisors at regular intervals, even if there is a review process in place.
3. Do NOT get involved in office politics, gossip or internal resistance groups (the whiners make up this group, and they are always among the first to be fired)
4. Do NOT offer your personal ideas unsolicited. If those ideas improve your productivity, you are not required to share them with your employers or coworkers. Chances are those ideas will be stolen, and the credit for them will be given to the idea thieves, not you.
5. Do not involve yourself with the ethical foundations of any employer, manager or executive. It is a waste of time and does more harm to your career than good.

 

[Overmind One]

To me, integrity is my biggest asset and my biggest selling point. I have no malicious intent but people tend to exploit my honesty and trustworthiness. Employers tend to leech more out of me, so they ask you do more than what you are normally would do. The other thing is that the law is favour of the corporation than you as a human being. I had a major privacy breach the other day, I did the right thing by raising awareness, but guess what happened? Absolutely nothing. That person believe it or not is a 'manager' so took out a jail free card. If I had done that, it would been off to the firing squad.

Then life fucks with me so hard that I don't know what do believe in anymore.

Bolded part of comment: what did you expect to happen for you after doing that?

Don't be a yes man or a kiss up. Just speaking from a position of more than 3 decades of experience!

 

[Overmind One]

Be fired/fined or given an official warning. If I had done that, I would have been fired for sure.

If your name is not on the signage as a partner, and your name is not on anyone's paychecks, you have no business challenging the management, ethics or practices of said company. Your choices are to adapt and get what you can from the situation, or to leave for a better situation. People who get in companies and think they are Neo in The Matrix, by challenging the Agents of the system and going against the Status Quo are what I call "internal resistance groups". Every company has them. They are people (or cliques of people) who whine and complain about how everything about the company is wrong and could be better if only ____________. But they come to work every day, and check their Bank for their paycheck at midnight on payday. Pointless.

When companies find ways to save money or make a process more efficient to make more profit, does any of the benefit of that trickle down to you? That's what I thought. So why offer up your ideas if you will not get any sort of advantage?

I know another IT guy (Systems Engineer) who is a Task Scheduler and scripting guru. He used the Task Scheduler function in Windows to automate many of the processes in the company he was working for, and the company got him to document the process, how to create new tasks and documented issues with broken tasks. Once they had that, they let him go and hired another guy at half the income to maintain and create new Tasks based upon the documentation. The Employee Handbook/Employee Contract clearly stated that all internal processes are intellectual property, and my friend was shit out of luck legally.

 

[PussyGalore]

If your name is not on the signage as a partner, and your name is not on anyone's paychecks, you have no business challenging the management, ethics or practices of said company. Your choices are to adapt and get what you can from the situation, or to leave for a better situation. People who get in companies and think they are Neo in The Matrix, by challenging the Agents of the system and going against the Status Quo are what I call "internal resistance groups". Every company has them. They are people (or cliques of people) who whine and complain about how everything about the company is wrong and could be better if only ____________. But they come to work every day, and check their Bank for their paycheck at midnight on payday. Pointless.

When companies find ways to save money or make a process more efficient to make more profit, does any of the benefit of that trickle down to you? That's what I thought. So why offer up your ideas if you will not get any sort of advantage?

I know another IT guy (Systems Engineer) who is a Task Scheduler and scripting guru. He used the Task Scheduler function in Windows to automate many of the processes in the company he was working for, and the company got him to document the process, how to create new tasks and documented issues with broken tasks. Once they had that, they let him go and hired another guy at half the income to maintain and create new Tasks based upon the documentation. The Employee Handbook/Employee Contract clearly stated that all internal processes are intellectual property, and my friend was shit out of luck legally.

Exactly this, all of this. If your name isn't on the business or you don't sit on the board of directors then you're an employee. It's as simple as that. And even if you receive "profit sharing" or company stock as part of your benefits package you're still just an employee. It's pointless to try and direct and/or change the course of the company because you have no vested interest in doing so and will get nothing out of it. Your company stock and/or "profit sharing" will give you zero leverage to make decisions and changes within the company. And any skills and/or intellectual property you bring to the job belongs to the company.

Additionally, getting involved in company politics is a choice. Filing grievances with HR is a choice, often a bad one. If one has a legit complaint of abuse that's one thing, but too often people get sucked into an unending merry-go-round of office complaints and it becomes nothing but a waste of time and energy and usually gets you blacklisted on some level.

The bottom line is when you're just an employee recognize that you're just an employee and make your career/work choices based upon that understanding. That doesn't mean you should have a poor work ethic, it simply means that if you choose to invest more of your life into your job than what you're being paid for that is your decision. If you decide to get involved in office politics that is your decision. If you are having issues in the workplace and HR or your bosses aren't interested in addressing the problem in a fair manner then it is your choice to stay or leave that job.

*I realize people often feel "forced" to remain at a job due to pressing financial issues, health insurance, etc. Regardless, if a job becomes untenable it's up to you to make a change. You are not a slave. You have autonomy. The responsibility for finding a better situation rests on you, and yes, there are always better situations out there even if that includes starting your own business and becoming your own boss. You don't need an advanced degree to start your own business nor do you need a lot of money. It may not be ideal but it doesn't have to be permanent either. The corporate employment system sucks but that's the world we live in today so it's up to us to sink or swim individually.

 

[Overmind One]

And you still think that AI won't be weaponized because of this? We clearly see what humans and corporations are capable of and even if the smart gurus do put loop holes in, it's just going to end up hurting innocent people who have no involvement in this.

Yep, my views remain unchanged. If you are doing something that is repetitive, then that task can be automated. If you are a problem solver though, then you can't be automated. A machine will not be able to determine that a fan burned up because somebody accidentally laid a sheet over the vent one night. AI will not be able to understand why wires were cut by a disgruntled person or if they simply got disconnected. To me, using the Task Manager to automate everything is lazy, and is not my style at all. I prefer to use monitoring tools and look for symptoms, then address them and determine the causes (usually outside the system). AI will never be able to look at itself in a mirror.

 

[Overmind One]

Exactly this, all of this. If your name isn't on the business or you don't sit on the board of directors then you're an employee. It's as simple as that. And even if you receive "profit sharing" or company stock as part of your benefits package you're still just an employee. It's pointless to try and direct and/or change the course of the company because you have no vested interest in doing so and will get nothing out of it. Your company stock and/or "profit sharing" will give you zero leverage to make decisions and changes within the company. And any skills and/or intellectual property you bring to the job belongs to the company.

Additionally, getting involved in company politics is a choice. Filing grievances with HR is a choice, often a bad one. If one has a legit complaint of abuse that's one thing, but too often people get sucked into an unending merry-go-round of office complaints and it becomes nothing but a waste of time and energy and usually gets you blacklisted on some level.

The bottom line is when you're just an employee recognize that you're just an employee and make your career/work choices based upon that understanding. That doesn't mean you should have a poor work ethic, it simply means that if you choose to invest more of your life into your job than what you're being paid for that is your decision. If you decide to get involved in office politics that is your decision. If you are having issues in the workplace and HR or your bosses aren't interested in addressing the problem in a fair manner then it is your choice to stay or leave that job.

*I realize people often feel "forced" to remain at a job due to pressing financial issues, health insurance, etc. Regardless, if a job becomes untenable it's up to you to make a change. You are not a slave. You have autonomy. The responsibility for finding a better situation rests on you, and yes, there are always better situations out there even if that includes starting your own business and becoming your own boss. You don't need an advanced degree to start your own business nor do you need a lot of money. It may not be ideal but it doesn't have to be permanent either. The corporate employment system sucks but that's the world we live in today so it's up to us to sink or swim individually.

This should be a prologue for a book named Common Sense Career Behaviors. . There are so many things you said there which not only apply in the US, but anywhere one is employed by another.