Job Market

[heisenberg]

The "learning" institutions are making sweetheart deals with corporations so that the paths to most any jobs require some sort of degree. Bachelors Degree required to be a clerk at Enterprise Rent A Car? Really? Bachelor's Degree required to be any store manager, even a Starbucks?! Still, experience trumps degrees in IT and sales jobs, and the companies will test the skills on their own no matter what degree you present. If you have 10 Masters degrees and no experience, the guy/girl with 10 years experience (but no degree) and provable, tested skills is going to get the job. You can also leverage connections in many cases (see: executive positions, administrative assistants, social media managers, creatives, graphic designers)



Shhh...as quiet as it's kept, NOBODY in America owns their home. Even if you pay it completely off, you will forever be paying property taxes (changed at whim by the government), homeowner's insurance, and in some cases where neighborhoods form HOAs, a monthly fee just to be in the area. Home ownership is not at all what it is cracked up to be, plus you are planted wherever the home is for the rest of your life.

So what happens when the person with experience dies or quits?How do you expect people to carry on the legacy or where you left off?

All these business degrees don't teach shit and are useless but are just a hurdle to keep people away from it. It acts as a deterrent and to make people a truckload of money. Most people don't learn critical thinking but rather a text book response which is not how the world works.

 

[Quetesh]

People are in for a rude awakening if they think they can fake it till they make it much more. Many companies are now outsourcing their checks for pre-employment through companies like WatchDog or HireRite and they no longer only check for criminal and credit checks.

They want copies of every school you went to, names, emails and phone numbers of not just your old boss from your last job but at least 3 references from the last 3 years and they really do contact them all, your first and last payslips from your previous jobs and proof of any qualification courses you state you may have taken. Where you have been living the last three years and 2 personal references of people from "established and respected professions" for any gaps of employment longer than 90 days.

These companies make their living by doing these checks and so I don't think they are going away anytime soon. Don't know if this has jumped the pond yet, but my company is a USA company (and so was the last one that did) and they all do it, so I assume it is like this all over anywhere in the slightest bit "corporate".

 

[YJ02]

No, Credit checks here are illegal and an invasion of privacy. Employers don't have any legal right to pry into your private life.

well hubba,hubba!

glad someplace still has respect for this!

this growing concept by employers of "give up EVERYTHING about yourself, just so you can get some hourly, wage-slave job (yeah..even if its $30/hr it is s ill just wage slavery)" is something that needs to be stopped now

 

[YJ02]

They want copies of every school you went to, names, emails and phone numbers of not just your old boss from your last job but at least 3 references from the last 3 years and they really do contact them all, your first and last payslips from your previous jobs and proof of any qualification courses you state you may have taken. Where you have been living the last three years and 2 personal references of people from "established and respected professions" for any gaps of employment longer than 90 days.

there is no reason ANYONE (except for govt employment--bureaucracy/military/police) in the civilian sector needs to know all of this about an employee

not one reason at all

very pretentious of them to think that their company is sooo special that they need to know how you did in kindergarten

and stuff like "established and respected professions" is quite subjective and would have a different meaning to everyone.

just another unfair employment discriminator

like in the US..just how may inner city youth (regardless of ethnicity) would be able to get "established and respected" referral for a job outside of the inner city?

just who in the 'burbs would consider ANY inner city employer "respected"?

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this is just all a way to re-establish a hard framed system of classicism. Our world should be going away from this crap not towards it

all should be able to work based on THEIR merits ALONE

 

[YJ02]

True story:

A real guy that I really know got a job with a fairly good company here using an online resume. After getting the job he simply added his new job to his online resume without thinking about it. Is wasn't long before HR called him in and said that since he had updated his online resume that meant he was no doubt looking for another job and they fired him.

So keep in mind that some companies will spend their time scouring the Internet for anything related to their employees.

now, would they have used a form of AI to screen for that addition?

sounds like an AI decision and not one made by a real person who would most likely have applied common sense

just about all resume pro's tell their students to include current employment on 'active' resumes

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i am so f'ing glad i don't need to put up with this BS anymore

(thats a statement of opinion, not a boast)

 

[PussyGalore]

now, would they have used a form of AI to screen for that addition?

sounds like an AI decision and not one made by a real person who would most likely have applied common sense

just about all resume pro's tell their students to include current employment on 'active' resumes

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i am so f'ing glad i don't need to put up with this BS anymore

(thats a statement of opinion, not a boast)

I don't know how they caught it but I do know he was fired by a real person.

 

[Rac80]

Perhaps, but it isn't at all the majority of people who suffer like this. It's mostly all young people, specifically Millennials (because they are now becoming voters and employees and parents). They were not prepared to handle any of that because of how they were raised in the PC world and shielded from honesty and the reality of the outside world. There are no Participation Trophies or Safe Spaces in real life.



Sure, young people are not told that modifying their bodies with tats and piercings and plastic surgeries might hurt them in their job searches or social interactions. But they are also not told that older people run all the companies and are the heads of HR departments who do the hiring. I don't think the companies give a shit about how anyone feels with regard to why they do any of those things. They don't have to. If they see your tattoos or piercings, they are only reacting to seeing them. They are not going to ask you what they mean or why you got them.

As far as experience, that is a real Catch 22. You need to get in somewhere to get experience, That could mean internship or maybe even pulling some strings. The Millennial generation is the largest American generation ever birthed, so competition is going to be fierce. Look at "everybody" in your generation, and distinguish yourself from them rather than conform to them.

This is an area I work on with the kids I deal with. Indiana (like several other states) have programs for free gang tattoo removal, and I encourage the kids to take advantage of that. There are also ways to cover non gang tattoos and "heal " over piercings. If the kids really want to change their social class, the state is willing to help them. You will find someone with full sleeve tattoos working at McD's or Walmart but (at least around here) not in a Macy's or decent restaurant. You won't be hired to work in an office position, especially one with prospects of moving upwards.



the number one problem for millennials getting hired (again locally) is passing a drug test. Even though pot isn't legal here, usage is very high, but also nearly as many fail due to being drunk for the test. Go figure.

 

[YJ02]

there is no reason ANYONE (except for govt employment--bureaucracy/military/police) in the civilian sector needs to know all of this about an employee

not one reason at all

very pretentious of them to think that their company is sooo special that they need to know how you did in kindergarten

and stuff like "established and respected professions" is quite subjective and would have a different meaning to everyone.

just another unfair employment discriminator

like in the US..just how may inner city youth (regardless of ethnicity) would be able to get "established and respected" referral for a job outside of the inner city?

just who in the 'burbs would consider ANY inner city employer "respected"?

--------------------------
this is just all a way to re-establish a hard framed system of classicism. Our world should be going away from this crap not towards it

all should be able to work based on THEIR merits ALONE

giving up all that info is also a good way for the employer t obuild a predictive program based on the info you provided

like say they get your school records. like High School, to include days late and sick

then their AI determines that many of the days you were late or sick were either on or preceded by big days. like first day of a fishing season, or the day after your mother's birthday, or the day after a big sporting event (super bowl,etc)

so now when you work for them and you call in sick or going to be late, that AI runs the date and compares to your school record and sees that you have a habit of taking that day off or being late

you wont be getting that day off, or, you'll be getting off of work permanently..even if you are truly sick

 

[heisenberg]

now, would they have used a form of AI to screen for that addition?

sounds like an AI decision and not one made by a real person who would most likely have applied common sense

just about all resume pro's tell their students to include current employment on 'active' resumes

-------------------------------------
i am so f'ing glad i don't need to put up with this BS anymore

(thats a statement of opinion, not a boast)

Well, it's down to background and character too. They want to see how loyal you are and whether or not you are a snitch, troublesome or are good at lying.

Oh and you already know my stance on AI. The fact that youtube's AI sucks balls, and flags videos that clearly don't break the tos, should send chills down your spine that you are going to get discriminated against and you'll be guilty before being innocent. It doesn't matter if you are white or black. Note: that there is positive discrimination and negative discrimination, so with this AI thing, we are going to see more divided human beings than ever before. Pretty soon, we will have metadata of where you've worked stored in a central database to prevent fraud but I don't like this idea. Why? What if you didn't get along with your boss and hated his guts? That will get noted on profile.Do you really want this person on your resume? I also don't want people to know where I have worked. It's creepy and stalking.

 

[YJ02]

are a snitch, troublesome or are good at lying.

and that is PRECISELY why they should not have anything on you prior to age 18 (or 16 or whichever age depending on what nation)!!!

what kid--especially a student--DOES NOT do any of that to some degree?

i mean, what's next? the type of undergarments you wear to see if you may be irritable while at work?

"nope, he wear briefs--we only want men with boxers"

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a current good thing-at least in PA is, that it is now an employee's market. places are scrambling to find enough ppl to hire, even willing to train on the job! thats a first around here in a very long time. It has caused the local (about a 5 county area) starting wages to go from about $9.hr to more like $12

even walmart is feeling the pinch as its current employees are going to the local powder metal factories whose manufacturing has been booming

point being, that this "tell us everything" crap wont be going into effect around here for a good while

 

[Overmind One]

People are in for a rude awakening if they think they can fake it till they make it much more. Many companies are now outsourcing their checks for pre-employment through companies like WatchDog or HireRite and they no longer only check for criminal and credit checks.

Yep, and they are even checking to see if you own firearms, if you have ever served in the military. My current job even looked for political affiliation (registered) through voting records.

They want copies of every school you went to, names, emails and phone numbers of not just your old boss from your last job but at least 3 references from the last 3 years and they really do contact them all, your first and last payslips from your previous jobs and proof of any qualification courses you state you may have taken. Where you have been living the last three years and 2 personal references of people from "established and respected professions" for any gaps of employment longer than 90 days.

Yes, they are doing all of that. And yes, they are calling all the references and verifying any claims you have made for working at any company in the capacity you say you worked. For most with experience, that works in their favor. If you were shady and mysterious, then you might as well just apply to work at a pawn shop.

These companies make their living by doing these checks and so I don't think they are going away anytime soon. Don't know if this has jumped the pond yet, but my company is a USA company (and so was the last one that did) and they all do it, so I assume it is like this all over anywhere in the slightest bit "corporate".

It has jumped the pond here, yes.

 

[YJ02]

Yep, and they are even checking to see if you own firearms, if you have ever served in the military. My current job even looked for political affiliation (registered) through voting records.



Yes, they are doing all of that. And yes, they are calling all the references and verifying any claims you have made for working at any company in the capacity you say you worked. For most with experience, that works in their favor. If you were shady and mysterious, then you might as well just apply to work at a pawn shop.



It has jumped the pond here, yes.

i am actually a bit flabbergasted that so many of you here think this is a good thing... IT's NOT!! not one valid reason for it unless it is a govt agency or private govt contractor, either of which requires a security clearance or a high personal reliability quotient. Telling me that some agency or company selling chatzkis or insurance or whatever needs to have the same data required for security clearances? No way... its bullshit

this is a terrible thing-an intrusion into the personal space of people

and it smacks of nothing more then data mining at "gunpoint"

give them you data and info or don't get hired (the gun point)

and what better way to get accurate data then from the person themselves and --for FREE!!!

Bastards!!

guess ppl who want to remain anonymous --at least to the extent of what used to be respected as a 'line' formerly not crossed by employers regarding privacy-- and employed will have to create a whole false persona, complete with bogus school and employment info and bogus online presence. bet some ppl are already doing that


There is no reason..NONE that any private corporation needs to do this!! If they want this data on their employees then the CEO's and every member of mngt should be forced to make all their data public first---bet they won't!!!

 

[Overmind One]

i am actually a bit flabbergasted that so many of you here think this is a good thing... IT's NOT!! not one valid reason for it unless it is a govt agency or private govt contractor, either of which requires a security clearance or a high personal reliability quotient. Telling me that some agency or company selling chatzkis or insurance or whatever needs to have the same data required for security clearances? No way... its bullshit

this is a terrible thing-an intrusion into the personal space of people

and it smacks of nothing more then data mining at "gunpoint"

give them you data and info or don't get hired (the gun point)

and what better way to get accurate data then from the person themselves and --for FREE!!!

Bastards!!

guess ppl who want to remain anonymous --at least to the extent of what used to be respected as a 'line' formerly not crossed by employers regarding privacy-- and employed will have to create a whole false persona, complete with bogus school and employment info and bogus online presence. bet some ppl are already doing that


There is no reason..NONE that any private corporation needs to do this!! If they want this data on their employees then the CEO's and every member of mngt should be forced to make all their data public first---bet they won't!!!

The reason is that many of these kids come out of "college", who had spent their time being activists, taking courses by cheating through shared answers on Facebook or wherever, so many reasons to vet a new employee. Companies need jobs done, not students they have to teach how to do the basics.

 

[YJ02]

The reason is that many of these kids come out of "college", who had spent their time being activists, taking courses by cheating through shared answers on Facebook or wherever, so many reasons to vet a new employee. Companies need jobs done, not students they have to teach how to do the basics.

college records I am ok with as college is considered a part of adulthood

anything before that or age 18 (or 16 where applicable) should be off limits. i mean, not even criminal history is accessible or used against an adult, unless it was a felony or one was charged as an adult. and, in this, it seems as if these companies may be using the cudgel of 'no info, no job' to get ppl to give them info that the company would not otherwise be able to get without a court order or a signed release for info.

and, if someone cheated their way through college or just didn't learn there skill, then that will show up quite quickly at work

and colleges, unless they are technical in nature, DO NOT teach all of whats needed. the college defense is that they are there to 'teach you to think and not anything specific or complete"

that is why, now, just about every major needs to go to Grad school to truly become trained and 'ready' to work...another scam of course.. College is the 'new' hgh school and master's programs are becoming the 'new' under grad, 4yr experience

only exceptions would be the narrowly defined skills of things like nursing, teacher, and nuclear med operators to name a few out of a VERY SMALL group of specialized under grad majors

 

[Quetesh]

I can see both sides.

I say this because I ran a small company and I, stupidly, trusted some of those employees without doing full references and educational checks. I got burnt.

I had employees that pretended to work and slept in the closet, call in late, and had a sudden need to leave early, since they lied about their current additional employment, even though I asked during the interview how many hours they were pulling at their other job....then tried to fight me in court for unemployment when I fired them.

I had employees that de-frauded the company and lied on medical reports for some of our patients....and had done this in a previous role.

I had employees that were never finished their education to be eligible for their credentials that was required to be able to get access for the prisons we provided services for....but lied about it.

I can go on and on and on and on....this shit happens if you don't do enough checks, but I was a small company and did not think it was worth my very scarce time to do...I was wrong.

On the other side.

As an employee that never did any of this crap and never would....it sucks.. I really hate dealing with it, but yeah, I get why it happens.

Also, if companies ( smaller ones ) go under because of profit loss due to these "bad" employees, than "good" employees can lose their jobs too.

 

[Quetesh]

there is no reason ANYONE (except for govt employment--bureaucracy/military/police) in the civilian sector needs to know all of this about an employee

not one reason at all

very pretentious of them to think that their company is sooo special that they need to know how you did in kindergarten

and stuff like "established and respected professions" is quite subjective and would have a different meaning to everyone.

just another unfair employment discriminator

like in the US..just how may inner city youth (regardless of ethnicity) would be able to get "established and respected" referral for a job outside of the inner city?

just who in the 'burbs would consider ANY inner city employer "respected"?

--------------------------
this is just all a way to re-establish a hard framed system of classicism. Our world should be going away from this crap not towards it

all should be able to work based on THEIR merits ALONE

I have a friend who is a teacher and another who is a cop.

They were considered acceptable. Companies are looking for officers of the court and professionals that are board certified,bonded, or in same way accredited by a governing body or organization. I would assume any lawyers, doctors, nurses, therapists would hit the mark. More than likely anyone with a decent employment history that is traceable on their own right would be accepted. In other words, you can't be a drug dealer or a bookie.

They are private companies, and if you can't provide references for long periods of un-employment, then they don't have to hire you. I was out of work for 1.5 years because of moving countries and therefore, I had to provide this information to each employer I applied to.

I am speaking of Europe, btw, where you can't just sue a company if you feel you have been oppressed, disrespected or personally offended by their company's employee handbook. They can and will simply not hire you if you do not prove that what you say in the interview and on your CV is true, it is called fraud.

 

[YJ02]

I have a friend who is a teacher and another who is a cop.

They were considered acceptable. Companies are looking for officers of the court and professionals that are board certified,bonded, or in same way accredited by a governing body or organization. I would assume any lawyers, doctors, nurses, therapists would hit the mark. More than likely anyone with a decent employment history that is traceable on their own right would be accepted. In other words, you can't be a drug dealer or a bookie.

They are private companies, and if you can't provide references for long periods of un-employment, then they don't have to hire you. I was out of work for 1.5 years because of moving countries and therefore, I had to provide this information to each employer I applied to.

I am speaking of Europe, btw, where you can't just sue a company if you feel you have been oppressed, disrespected or personally offended by their company's employee handbook. They can and will simply not hire you if you do not prove that what you say in the interview and on your CV is true, it is called fraud.

so, is it you have a private company looking to hire professional people who have already been vetted buy govt agencies? kind of lazy

"I am speaking of Europe, btw, where you can't just sue a company if you feel you have been oppressed, disrespected or personally offended by their company's employee handbook. They can and will simply not hire you if you do not prove that what you say in the interview and on your CV is true, it is called fraud."

But what about European Socia--- err...disregard

anyhow, just because it is Europe does not make it automatically better

you ppl over there are still kissing up to "royalty"... that pretty much speaks for, and explains, everything else

 

[YJ02]

I can see both sides.

I say this because I ran a small company and I, stupidly, trusted some of those employees without doing full references and educational checks. I got burnt.

I had employees that pretended to work and slept in the closet, call in late, and had a sudden need to leave early, since they lied about their current additional employment, even though I asked during the interview how many hours they were pulling at their other job....then tried to fight me in court for unemployment when I fired them.

I had employees that de-frauded the company and lied on medical reports for some of our patients....and had done this in a previous role.

I had employees that were never finished their education to be eligible for their credentials that was required to be able to get access for the prisons we provided services for....but lied about it.

I can go on and on and on and on....this shit happens if you don't do enough checks, but I was a small company and did not think it was worth my very scarce time to do...I was wrong.

On the other side.

As an employee that never did any of this crap and never would....it sucks.. I really hate dealing with it, but yeah, I get why it happens.

Also, if companies ( smaller ones ) go under because of profit loss due to these "bad" employees, than "good" employees can lose their jobs too.

ok, but that is looking at things in the micro-- in the "what needs to be done at this time" to fill a need of a corporation (there that goes again..needs of a corporation trumping the needs of the individual)

but overall, in the macro, this type of info demand and the 'voluntary' access one is allowing to maybe, get a job (i mean, if you are not hired and it is not for something bad found, do they purge their file of your data?) ALL LEADS to an escalation of corporate rights to intrude and collect and sell/trade our data,even more then they are now.

This goes hand in hand with the decrease of personal freedom and privacy..all in the name of ..what? corporations making money.

 

[Quetesh]

The whole Macro/Micro comment is making me smile. I am currently studying CIMA over here, and my first exam has a module for Micro and a module for Macro. The whole reason they teach both is that in the end it all relates back to the business.( It states this in my study text ). Business managers that are in "For Profit" organizations have a fiduciary duty to ensure decisions are made to make the most profit they can for the owners. It also goes to say that if the company folds in the end, the employees lose out too. If it is not a charity, it is right for them to put the company first. They don't have too, and should not have to hire anyone that they deem unfit. If you studied Econ then you know, Corps need to make money or the economy fails. If the economy fails then people lose jobs and things get ugly. Money makes the world spin.

I really have to say again, I can see it from both sides. If large corporations hire the wrong person, this is actually a huge cost to them. I ran into at my old job because our HR department sucked ass and screwed us all the time. In the end, too many bad employees being brought in had a lot to do with why we lost an entire department when the client was unhappy with the results. I watched in horror as the managers of that department (not mine, I hired my own!)worked with what they had because once it was realized how much these candidates lied, it was too late, due to a deadline from a launch. Sounds like boo hoo, but 200 people lost their jobs. If not this extreme, there is an immense drain on the companies when they have to re-train another whole set of employees when they have to let them go. On the other hand, as an employee, yeah it bites, but I like working in a place where I know the people I work with are really everything they purport to be.

I will say that US and Europe both have their pros and cons, but in my opinion having lived in both for a significant period of time, Europe is right about the lack of being sue crazy. They are wrong about many other things, but this is not one. It makes life so much more "transparent" and not all about who can sue who, and who is playing CYA because of it.

 

[YJ02]

The whole Macro/Micro comment is making me smile. I am currently studying CIMA over here, and my first exam has a module for Micro and a module for Macro. The whole reason they teach both is that in the end it all relates back to the business.( It states this in my study text ). Business managers that are in "For Profit" organizations have a fiduciary duty to ensure decisions are made to make the most profit they can for the owners. It also goes to say that if the company folds in the end, the employees lose out too. If it is not a charity, it is right for them to put the company first. They don't have too, and should not have to hire anyone that they deem unfit. If you studied Econ then you know, Corps need to make money or the economy fails. If the economy fails then people lose jobs and things get ugly. Money makes the world spin.

I really have to say again, I can see it from both sides. If large corporations hire the wrong person, this is actually a huge cost to them. I ran into at my old job because our HR department sucked ass and screwed us all the time. In the end, too many bad employees being brought in had a lot to do with why we lost an entire department when the client was unhappy with the results. I watched in horror as the managers of that department (not mine, I hired my own!)worked with what they had because once it was realized how much these candidates lied, it was too late, due to a deadline from a launch. Sounds like boo hoo, but 200 people lost their jobs. If not this extreme, there is an immense drain on the companies when they have to re-train another whole set of employees when they have to let them go. On the other hand, as an employee, yeah it bites, but I like working in a place where I know the people I work with are really everything they purport to be.

I will say that US and Europe both have their pros and cons, but in my opinion having lived in both for a significant period of time, Europe is right about the lack of being sue crazy. They are wrong about many other things, but this is not one. It makes life so much more "transparent" and not all about who can sue who, and who is playing CYA because of it.

sure...but i am talking about the micro and macro effects on society

those small steps being done to herd us closer and closer to Big Brother's "slaughterhouse"

We accept these "little" seemingly innocent things because they are "have to's" imposed on us. or imposed on us out of fear

like things that are done in the wake of terror attacks. needed at the time but then never walked back or rescinded

every time we give in to these little "micro" needs/wants of corporations and others, we surrender more and more of our freedom and the ability to make choices