Caprica

[SexyDexy]

Okay so it seems like a few of us here actually enjoy Caprica, while others hate it almost as much as they hate SGU. Thought I'd start a thread, also a poll because I'm curious to see what our members here think of Caprica.

 

[Overmind One]

Well...

Okay so it seems like a few of us here actually enjoy Caprica, while others hate it almost as much as they hate SGU. Thought I'd start a thread, also a poll because I'm curious to see what our members here think of Caprica.

You know I luv you, but i absolutely hate Caprica with a passion, even moreso than SGU! I have a BIG problem with earth-type clothing, standard American stereotypes, and cheesy "real-world sets" which are supposed to make me think they are on another planet. I dont like the character interaction or the premise either. But thats just me!

 

[SexyDexy]

You know I luv you, but i absolutely hate Caprica with a passion, even moreso than SGU! I have a BIG problem with earth-type clothing, standard American stereotypes, and cheesy "real-world sets" which are supposed to make me think they are on another planet. I dont like the character interaction or the premise either. But thats just me!

Lol, I can handle the fact that you hate it! Our bond will never be broken over a non-Stargate show like Caprica We still agree on what really matters - that SGU sucks :sgusucks:

I like Caprica, but I don't love it - it does have it's flaws. I see what you mean about the stereotypes - seems like they are doing a bit of Italian-mobster stereotype, but I can overlook it. I'd give Caprica maybe 6 out of 10-ish, but it's still something that makes my viewing list because I watch way too much TV for my own good! I of course reserve the right to change my opinion if the back half of season one stinks...

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

I think Craprica (deliberate typo), it's storyline & it's characters are tolerable. I quite like the concept although the execution is a little naff due to the whole "teenage girl-turned Cylon" thing. I agree with Overmind about the cheap, lazy continuity in the show in that it rips off all of our modern racial constructs, sterotypes, sexualities, religions, political realities, architecture etc but I can ignore that because I want to know how exactly this husky-voiced teenager is the progenitor of the entire Cylon race.

The one thing which annoyed me about Caprica was Amanda Graystone - an attractive-looking older woman but a horrible character who just used to mope around in a midlife crisis/depression, chain smoking, expreimenting with her sexuality & just lowering the tone of the show every time she was one the screen. I used to skip through any scene with her in & even jumped up & punched the air when she topped herself by jumping off that bridge.

 

[sp23]

You know I luv you, but i absolutely hate Caprica with a passion, even moreso than SGU! I have a BIG problem with earth-type clothing, standard American stereotypes, and cheesy "real-world sets" which are supposed to make me think they are on another planet. I dont like the character interaction or the premise either. But thats just me!

Well, since it's a prequel (god, I hate that word, LOL) for BSG, it makes sense that it's on an Earth-like planet because BSG was based entirely on an Earth-like (largely American-type) society. That being said, that bothers me too and is a big reason why I can't love the show.

Still, I really liked the season (half-season?) ending, and it left me wanting more. Which is more than I can say for SGU.

 

[SexyDexy]

I think Craprica (deliberate typo), it's storyline & it's characters are tolerable. I quite like the concept although the execution is a little naff due to the whole "teenage girl-turned Cylon" thing. I agree with Overmind about the cheap, lazy continuity in the show in that it rips off all of our modern racial constructs, sterotypes, sexualities, religions, political realities, architecture etc but I can ignore that because I want to know how exactly this husky-voiced teenager is the progenitor of the entire Cylon race.

I guess I forgive these more because it is supposed to be prior to our Earth like sp23 said, so maybe having the Roman-influenced religion and the Christian-y religion and the other cultures that kind of resemble our cultures is supposed to be kind of like a precursor to "us". But I definitely agree they could do it better, w/o such obvious stereotypes. Also in reality it would be very unlikely for stuff like clothes/architecture to be so similar.

The one thing which annoyed me about Caprica was Amanda Graystone - an attractive-looking older woman but a horrible character who just used to mope around in a midlife crisis/depression, chain smoking, expreimenting with her sexuality & just lowering the tone of the show every time she was one the screen. I used to skip through any scene with her in & even jumped up & punched the air when she topped herself by jumping off that bridge.

Don't get too excited - I wouldn't be surprised if she's resurrected in digital form just like her daughter...

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

Don't get too excited - I wouldn't be surprised if she's resurrected in digital form just like her daughter...

Oh that's just magic! Amanda "Prozac Monster" Graystone moping, chain-smoking & crying in 3D.

 

[Overmind One]

I dunno...

Well, since it's a prequel (god, I hate that word, LOL) for BSG, it makes sense that it's on an Earth-like planet because BSG was based entirely on an Earth-like (largely American-type) society. That being said, that bothers me too and is a big reason why I can't love the show.

Still, I really liked the season (half-season?) ending, and it left me wanting more. Which is more than I can say for SGU.

Are you American? If so, then unless you have traveled abroad or to another foreign culture (first world) and lived there a bit, you would definitely not see the stereotypes portrayed in Craprica elsewhere, and thus couldnt even by a stretch be considered representative of Earth-like society. The divisions in Europe are mostly along cultural/ethnic lines than they are "racial". The mobster-esque thing is American-style in Caprica. And those clothes? Sheez, how hard is it to make the clothing styles seem otherworldly? There is no reason fpr me to believe that Caprica is not just plain old Earth. Thats why none of the other stuff going on captures me. All I think is "Earth, with a twist". Thats not what I want at all.

Funny, in Star Trek, every city, every culture had a different look, the people wore different clothing which made me really believe they were on a different planet. I dont want to explore religion and politics by watching Craprica. I can just do that with the internet. I want to be entertained!

 

[sp23]

Are you American? If so, then unless you have traveled abroad or to another foreign culture (first world) and lived there a bit, you would definitely not see the stereotypes portrayed in Craprica elsewhere, and thus couldnt even by a stretch be considered representative of Earth-like society. The divisions in Europe are mostly along cultural/ethnic lines than they are "racial". The mobster-esque thing is American-style in Caprica. And those clothes? Sheez, how hard is it to make the clothing styles seem otherworldly? There is no reason fpr me to believe that Caprica is not just plain old Earth. Thats why none of the other stuff going on captures me. All I think is "Earth, with a twist". Thats not what I want at all.

Funny, in Star Trek, every city, every culture had a different look, the people wore different clothing which made me really believe they were on a different planet. I dont want to explore religion and politics by watching Craprica. I can just do that with the internet. I want to be entertained!

Yes, I'm American, and I did say that it was a largely American-like society. And yeah, since it's so very derivative of an American 1950's like time period, it does take me out of the story, even more than BSG did. I don't believe in any way, shape or form that a society on another planet would parallel modern American society so closely. It some ways I find it lazy storytelling.

I'll be honest, I don't find Caprica all that true to the canon set forth in the re-imagined BSG (I never watched original BSG. Too kid's show for me at the time.) It seems like it's a re-imagination of the history. But even with all that, I still find it interesting enough to keep me tuning in each week. Oh, also, James Marsters guest stars, and that's good enough for me. Hey, I didn't say I had to have logical reasons to watch. :icon_e_wink:

 

[Overmind One]

Yeah, youre right.

Yes, I'm American, and I did say that it was a largely American-like society. And yeah, since it's so very derivative of an American 1950's like time period, it does take me out of the story, even more than BSG did. I don't believe in any way, shape or form that a society on another planet would parallel modern American society so closely. It some ways I find it lazy storytelling.

I'll be honest, I don't find Caprica all that true to the canon set forth in the re-imagined BSG (I never watched original BSG. Too kid's show for me at the time.) It seems like it's a re-imagination of the history. But even with all that, I still find it interesting enough to keep me tuning in each week. Oh, also, James Marsters guest stars, and that's good enough for me. Hey, I didn't say I had to have logical reasons to watch. :icon_e_wink:

Yes to all of those reasons. I am also American, born in America but everywhere else I have visited outside of America seems somehow less compartmentalized and rigid. In many ways, far more socially advanced. So, the backwards American stereotypes to me are eyeroll inducing. And as Piggy pointed out, the original BSG was completely different than the re-imagined BSG, although the elements and basic story are the same. They changed characters a bit, but used the original names from the first series. Now, Caprica seems to be trying to re-write the original storyline altogether including how the Cylons came to be. I hate that, because these new "humanoid Cylons" were already over the line for me. In the original, the Cylons were strictly mechanical beings and they were threatening enough as they were. Now, they are trying to make the humanoid Cylon the main focus. I dont even care.

 

[ParagonPie]

My major problem was the portrayal of the machines themselves, but giving them human bodies they also went one step further by giving them human fallible minds, why would a race of machines restrict itself so much is beyond me. Having an organic cybernetic merge would have been a nice twist showing that they can evolve literally, but by making them literal humans with human emotions, like the reason for the attack on the twelve colonies was nothing more than revenge. When the machines were first made they originally reacted to the humans, thinking their continued survival was at stake so therefore they took the appropriate measures to ensure their freedom. Maybe I'm just a huge Asimov fan, but really it could have a great intellectual exercise to see how machines could possibly think and react to new environments and how they perceive us not only as a race, but individuals and cultures etc.

But the way how Caprica is rewriting the history (from what I am going to guess) is that it is a human replicated consciousness is what causes the rebellion. Maybe that is what they are going for, the very purpose in that we can never truly create an AI so we need a human side to make it work, maybe it is that what is annoying me. So really they aren't fighting machines, they are fighting cyborgs?

 

[SexyDexy]

Big Plot Holes Regarding AI

But the way how Caprica is rewriting the history (from what I am going to guess) is that it is a human replicated consciousness is what causes the rebellion. Maybe that is what they are going for, the very purpose in that we can never truly create an AI so we need a human side to make it work, maybe it is that what is annoying me. So really they aren't fighting machines, they are fighting cyborgs?

This isn't exactly the same point you are making, I don't think, but what you say reminds me of on one of the aspects of Caprica that really irritates me - the AI limitations suffered by Dr. Greystone are kind of silly. I mean, the part where they are testing the "defective" robots - when they are running around in the obstacle course trying to shoot things/not get shot - and they fail miserably - I was laughing out loud because we have robots that can do way better than that now. So I find it silly that supposedly these uber-advanced robots can't identify enemies/avoid obstacles/shoot moving targets. Now if they have to make complex moral decisions (like, balancing benefits of a strike against an enemy target against the probability of loss of civilian life, etc,), then that's different because it's more difficult - but really, there are robots that play soccer and cars that drive themselves in our Earth present day, so, it's a bit of a stretch to me that robots from a society w/ supposedly more advanced technology overall can't handle such tasks - it's just ridiculous.

Also, the way the "memories/life experiences" of the people are supposedly translated into the cylon AIs doesn't really make much sense to be, but, eh, I overlook that too. I can be very forgiving of plot holes when I want to be

For the human-body issue - my interpretation is that cylon Zoe wants to have a human body in real life as opposed to the silly-looking mechanical one because she "remembers" being human - and she wants the human relationships she had before (she didn't really have them, but, you know what I mean). Of course, she gets similar relationship inside the virtual world, but not in the "real" world.

 

[ParagonPie]

Yeah Dexy that also made me ponder, unless they are running windows vista on those current cylon models or something like that and the opposing corporation had service pack 1.

My comment was made to the human cylon models not zoe (seems also a bit silly for me since I am posting in a Caprica thread and not the BSG one *cough*), or Caprica.

I always have problems with shows especially when I use my ickle brain to sort things out, I guess my main problem has been that BSG or Caprica (I still watched both, all the way through still undecided whether I actually like them or not, or I have sever man crush on James Edward Olmos) haven't actually been true science fictions, more along the lines of a fantasy. hehe more on this later

.

 

[nahuatl]

Hello all,


This is my first time on this forum, feels so good to find people who loath SGU as much as I do.

Now on to my opinions on caprica. I actually like caprica. The first half was slow as hell plot wise, but I was really drawn into the world and characters. As a BSG fan I just couldn't turn away from seeing Caprica in it's heyday. I also really love the world building that the writers managed to pull off; yes they wear similar clothes and have Earth names (that always bothered me during BSG), since cylon Earth 2000 years ago looks like 21st century Earth I stopped caring to be honest. But the culture of Caprica although similar to ours if still very different: polytheistic religion, sexually liberal, group marriage it's almost a mirror of what our society would be if we pagan religions were still dominant; and the Taurons are all kinds of weird.

Anyways I'm babbling I just hope that the second half is as action packed as the promos promise, because the show does have promise.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I don't agree with the way they say this is how the cylons were created as it is contrary to the established facts from the original series. The cylons were originally created as slaves by an alien race that eventually died out and then the cylons evolved from there.

Maybe they meant aliens as in illegal aliens crossing the 700 mile long fence .. er ... i mean ... force field at the border to come work in Caprica City.

 

[nahuatl]

I don't agree with the way they say this is how the cylons were created as it is contrary to the established facts from the original series. The cylons were originally created as slaves by an alien race that eventually died out and then the cylons evolved from there.

I never saw the original series, but I guess the change was made to fit the classic sci fi parable: Don't create AI and then enslave it because it will turn on you.

 

[nahuatl]

My major problem was the portrayal of the machines themselves, but giving them human bodies they also went one step further by giving them human fallible minds, why would a race of machines restrict itself so much is beyond me. Having an organic cybernetic merge would have been a nice twist showing that they can evolve literally, but by making them literal humans with human emotions, like the reason for the attack on the twelve colonies was nothing more than revenge. When the machines were first made they originally reacted to the humans, thinking their continued survival was at stake so therefore they took the appropriate measures to ensure their freedom. Maybe I'm just a huge Asimov fan, but really it could have a great intellectual exercise to see how machines could possibly think and react to new environments and how they perceive us not only as a race, but individuals and cultures etc.

The robotic centurions always wanted humanoid bodies because they were crazy religious robots (no kidding) and they wanted to replace humanity with their "children". They didn't have the technology to create flesh bodied cylons and poof the final five appear with the tech they need and the rest is nuclear apocalyptic history.

But the way how Caprica is rewriting the history (from what I am going to guess) is that it is a human replicated consciousness is what causes the rebellion. Maybe that is what they are going for, the very purpose in that we can never truly create an AI so we need a human side to make it work, maybe it is that what is annoying me. So really they aren't fighting machines, they are fighting cyborgs?

In terms of Caprica and rewriting history; I don't think the show does. It was never established how the centurions came to be, all we were ever told on BSG was that humans created the cylons, the cylons rebelled, 12 year war, cylons disappeared, cylons return 40 years later and nuked the colonies. How the centurions were created was always a mystery.

An aftifical consciousness that is a replica of a real person's consciousness is still artificial, and maybe I'm wrong but more difficult than creating an AI that is a total blank slate. The problem that Graystone is having with the U87 is that it is difficult copying this unique AI and downloading it to identical robot bodies.

 

[SexyDexy]

Welcome!

Welcome Nahuatl!

An aftifical consciousness that is a replica of a real person's consciousness is still artificial, and maybe I'm wrong but more difficult than creating an AI that is a total blank slate. The problem that Graystone is having with the U87 is that it is difficult copying this unique AI and downloading it to identical robot bodies.

Good point. I agree that this aspect makes some sense - and it makes sense too that Graystone can't figure out the exact algorithm Zoe made in order to make the "conscious" AIs - but what I think is silly about the entire thing is why these robots need to think and feel, and to basically "be" humans mentally to get the job done. They could just be programmed to follow orders / shoot things without being full-blown "conscious" beings. That's the big plot hole I see - all the tasks it seems they want the robots to carry out, don't require a replication of human "consciousness". Not to mention creating a truly "human" AI would be an extremely complex task and they just glaze over that entire aspect with some mumbo jumbo about the cumulative "impressions" of someone's life being brought together.

 

[ParagonPie]

I guess my problem was in that way of how the Cylons rebelled in this series, from what they are leading up to, it will take a human mind set (artificial, replicated otherwise it is still a human way of thinking) to make the rebellion happen. Again nothing wrong with that and I will admit it is a cool idea, but I am so used or at least wanting another Skynet (original not that god awful one done in Terminator Salvation) in that the AI actually gained sentience by itself it wasn't introduced by a 3rd party, I think those were my main problems. (edit that is a guess on how they rebel in this series so who knows, maybe I am wrong hehe) Also I think they wanted to blur the difference between man and machine, which I did rub me the wrong way.

It was my perception of the machines that was wrong in the series, see I thought the concept of the whole god and religious crusade wanting to wipe out humanity was introduced after the rebellion not during. I guess I wasn't paying that much attention to the show or at least the cylon part.

Again it was just my view, and I've never seen so far a true AI in the sense other than in that SG1 episode when Sam gets taken over that was kinda cool hehe. Who knows I will continue watching the series as it does have me intrigued.

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

Hello all,


This is my first time on this forum, feels so good to find people who loath SGU as much as I do.

Now on to my opinions on caprica. I actually like caprica. The first half was slow as hell plot wise, but I was really drawn into the world and characters. As a BSG fan I just couldn't turn away from seeing Caprica in it's heyday. I also really love the world building that the writers managed to pull off; yes they wear similar clothes and have Earth names (that always bothered me during BSG), since cylon Earth 2000 years ago looks like 21st century Earth I stopped caring to be honest. But the culture of Caprica although similar to ours if still very different: polytheistic religion, sexually liberal, group marriage it's almost a mirror of what our society would be if we pagan religions were still dominant; and the Taurons are all kinds of weird.

Anyways I'm babbling I just hope that the second half is as action packed as the promos promise, because the show does have promise.

Welcome Nahuatl, happy posting.