American non(science)sense

[Lord Ba'al]

everything we do use or exploit, create,etc ARE ALL from nature

we dont create things we use "from nothing"

just because we are, so far, the most developed 'item' in nature doesn't mean that some how all those things that nature has given us and we have discovered (HELLO SCIENCE AND DISCOVERY!! So its ok for science, et al in the theory of, but everything we have done in the execution of the use of those discoveries is bad?)

No matter how much more we develop and evolve nature will ALWAYS BE SUPREME TO US and could knock us back centuries or millenia in development and culture,etc AT ITS WHIM

just look at how 'knocked back' any place is after nature's minor tumults like hurricanes and earthquakes. if nature really got to it, we could lose nearly everything we have

and when i say nature i am also including all things natural on and off the planet

We cannot destroy the planet but it can destroy us

I feel like we're debating semantics here. But in any case none of what you said there negates the fact that humanity in general acts as a destructive force towards other life that inhibits our planet. What @heisenberg is I believe getting at is that we have a choice in whether or not we behave destructively or responsibly in regard to our planet and the life on it, which includes our own. Generally we take the easiest paths even though they cause destruction while there are better ways to go about things.

 

[Overmind One]

It's our intervention is what I am talking about good lord. The earth is a perfectly calibrated closed loop system.I don't follow this religion or faith as you call it. I view science objectively. I see the evidence in front of me and reach a conclusion.

It is NOT a closed loop system. Do you know how much mass is gained by meteorite strikes on earth every single year? 37,000-78,000 tons. This in the form of dust and micro-meteorites entering the atmosphere. Also, there is water and sometime organic compounds in those meteorites. The earth itself interacts with the Sun and moon, both of which have a massive effect on the climate and life on earth.

Back to the Eocene Era.. What do you think caused it? Whatever it was, it had nothing to do with Man or industry. It was not that long ago, geologically speaking. There has been an ice age since then. And global warming periods appear to be cyclic, so why are you so convinced that Man is behind this one? We are still coming out of the last ice age. The ice at the poles is supposed to be melting. The temperature is supposed to be rising.

Exactly who should be considering these climactic changes to be a "disaster"?

I don't know about you. but when its hot outside, I like going to the beach or to a pool. Or, just lay at home in my underwear and relax. I don't worry about UV rays or rising oceans. Why should I? They are supposed to raise when ice melts.

 

[Overmind One]

I feel like we're debating semantics here. But in any case none of what you said there negates the fact that humanity in general acts as a destructive force towards other life that inhibits our planet. What @heisenberg is I believe getting at is that we have a choice in whether or not we behave destructively or responsibly in regard to our planet and the life on it, which includes our own. Generally we take the easiest paths even though they cause destruction while there are better ways to go about things.

Perhaps, but I completely agree with what you have just said. Too much of what Man does is completely out of sync with nature. And so many of us dare call our concrete monstrosities "civilization". Every dam we build, every road we pave, every acre we plant with mono-crops and douse with fertilizer is appallingly unnatural.

But heisenberg is specifically talking about manmade climate change which which I 100% disagree with. Man is not changing the global climate. He couldn't do that even if he popped off all of the thousands of nuclear warheads in every arsenal of every nuclear nation in one day. Sure, the local regions around blasts would be devastated. But 50 miles away, and you would not see any affect. Back in the 1970s, there was talk of "nuclear winter" after a nuclear war, but you do not hear of that now because it has been debunked.

A real disaster is people wearing sunscreen. Why is that? Because sunscreen washed off in the oceans is finding it's way to coral reefs where it blocks out the UV rays and other rays which feed the algae on the corals. Filtered water is a disaster. It contains no minerals to replenish soils. It makes human bodies more susceptible to disease by making it work less. Antibiotics, cleaning chemicals, so many little, horrible things we do.

 

[YJ02]

I believe getting at is that we have a choice in whether or not we behave destructively or responsibly in regard to our planet and the life on it, which includes our own. Generally we take the easiest paths

yes, exactly...

the biggest issue i have, and i think om1 as well, is that the "easiest paths" are ones that the majority of the ppl expect to be handed down to them as "guidance" or "regulation/law" when they SHOULD be practicing 'small' and smart steps at home through their own responsible choices


and, the biggest flaw in the MMCC craze is that these "easiest paths" they present to the masses are all monetized quite heavily

one does not need to spend much money at all to act responsible or, if you must, "green"

that movie i have linked to here and elsewhere-- COOL IT--is pretty much exactly about this--the common sense, small and responsible steps vs the corporate monetized model.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Exactly who should be considering these climactic changes to be a "disaster"?

I don't know about you. but when its hot outside, I like going to the beach or to a pool. Or, just lay at home in my underwear and relax. I don't worry about UV rays or rising oceans. Why should I? They are supposed to raise when ice melts.

Coming from a country of which three quarters of the surface area is already below sea level, I can tell you that there are definitely a lot of people who have legitimate reason to be wary of rising sea levels and subsequently of climate change.

 

[Overmind One]

Coming from a country of which three quarters of the surface area is already below sea level, I can tell you that there are definitely a lot of people who have legitimate reason to be wary of rising sea levels and subsequently of climate change.

Sure, I can understand that. But this is not a flaw of the planet or a manmade disaster (other than choosing to build a nation on an island or a city along the coast or next to a river). I myself live in a fairly low level coastal city that WILL be flooded in the event the oceans rise. I have always lived in coastal cities. They will flood. New York will flood. Most of Florida will go under the waves. My point is why is this considered to be the fault of Man and not just a natural consequence of natural, cyclic global climate change?

The flawed concept and false promise is that Man is causing global climate change, and that he can also slow or stop or reverse it (for the right price). It is a scam.

 

[YJ02]

Sure, I can understand that. But this is not a flaw of the planet or a manmade disaster (other than choosing to build a nation on an island or a city along the coast or next to a river). I myself live in a fairly low level coastal city that WILL be flooded in the event the oceans rise. I have always lived in coastal cities. They will flood. New York will flood. Most of Florida will go under the waves. My point is why is this considered to be the fault of Man and not just a natural consequence of natural, cyclic global climate change?

The flawed concept and false promise is that Man is causing global climate change, and that he can also slow or stop or reverse it (for the right price). It is a scam.

the planet has been losing land steadily for thousands of millenia to water level rise. man had to lose his cities and move inland before--we will do it again

well, i wont have to!! every model map of MMCC has my area nice and cozy, far from any water level rise. Probably just get a rise in ppl though

 

[YJ02]

feed lots are another type of american non-science

sure, they were developed by science but then exploited and over used greatly for profit--that "non science"

the abuse of science is non science

and, we have stopped buying meat raised in feed lots a while back

we get all our meat locally from a butcher shop who gets his animals from this region. so it all comes from within about 200 miles of here

and all those growers do not use feed lots. their animals are raised the traditional way-grazing with some amendments from corn and soy fed IN THE FIELD so they are eating grass along with the added grain

is it more expensive? a little. but that is another tact of big food ind; scare the populace. say their food is going to get more expensive unless it is raised in a feed lot. Well, when I buy a lb of ground round say...$6.20/lb at my butcher. the local wal mart is selling the same --INDUSTRIAL BEEF--for 5.81. not a huge difference

Plus the butcher has incentive to buy from him; buy more at one time, get "x" amount of per lb that purchase. walmart does not have that

in this clip, Joe Salatin-a farmer in virginia (who is also in food inc and many other docs) shows us how it is to be done. many farmers around here do it this way, they even have their pigs and cows graze through woodland.

 

[YJ02]

a promising trend. i have noticed that even walmart is beginning to sell grass fed.pasture raised beef and pork

still not going to buy it there though....

https://agfundernews.com/grass-fed-beef-survey-story.html

 

[Overmind One]

a promising trend. i have noticed that even walmart is beginning to sell grass fed.pasture raised beef and pork

still not going to buy it there though....

https://agfundernews.com/grass-fed-beef-survey-story.html

The market is rejecting many products because of the way they are produced. You can hardly sell non-organic produce in my area. Only the poor eat at the fast food places, even though the food is expensive. $4.00 for a flat, chintzy burger at McDonalds when you can buy three pounds of ground beef at Smart and Final for $6.00 and be able to make 12 quarter pound hamburgers from it.

 

[YJ02]

The market is rejecting many products because of the way they are produced. You can hardly sell non-organic produce in my area. Only the poor eat at the fast food places, even though the food is expensive. $4.00 for a flat, chintzy burger at McDonalds when you can buy three pounds of ground beef at Smart and Final for $6.00 and be able to make 12 quarter pound hamburgers from it.

YUP, THE "TOO EXPENSIVE" fear spread by big food inc is just not really there

even if you go for something expensive, like a full beef brisket

it is about $3 lb at walmart

at the butcher i go to, a three man operation, it is about $4.25 when i asked a few weeks ago

and it came from a farm in Indiana PA, about 1 1/2 hrs from here. pasture raised on grass with some grain amendment in winter

just got some goat and lamb today too.....

 

[Rac80]

a promising trend. i have noticed that even walmart is beginning to sell grass fed.pasture raised beef and pork

still not going to buy it there though....

https://agfundernews.com/grass-fed-beef-survey-story.html

Best lean, grass fed meat-- venison, elk, and moose. Hunting is very good for the environment (controls animal populations) and for your cholesterol levels.

 

[YJ02]

Best lean, grass fed meat-- venison, elk, and moose. Hunting is very good for the environment (controls animal populations) and for your cholesterol levels.

yeah, but it is a serious pain in the ass and a expensive endeavor with a low investment to payoff ratio

fishing, on the other hand....

 

[Rac80]

yeah, but it is a serious pain in the ass and a expensive endeavor with a low investment to payoff ratio

fishing, on the other hand....

My sister (in Maine) has a freezer full of salmon.....all were fresh caught.

 

[YJ02]

The abuse of science and tech for profit in the medical field is another example of non-science <<the abuse of science is non-science>>>

On this-Sometimes you see a documentary or other info and know if you don't share it then you are a small part of the problem. This movie is one of those things---- THE BLEEDING EDGE on Netflix. it exposes the very traumatic physical, mental ,emotional and family effects products like cobalt joint replacements, vaginal meshes, and a female sterilization device called Essure has/are causing around the world and particularly in the US. Strange how the makes of Essure-Bayer, vehemently deny wrongdoing but yet decided to pull the product form the US (they pulled it from europe previously) shortly before the release of this film.

http://bleedingedgedoc.com/


------ --------------------------------------------------
one general comment on the state of some of these couples sex lives

issue is made about how many men have left their wives to find other sex partners after severe complications from either the essure device or the mesh

one guy had his penis cut by his wive's vagina after she had some mesh removed

I don't understand why these grown and seemingly mature men-far from hyper sexed teenagers- can't grow the hell up and have some compassion for their wives?

there are other ways to physically express love and, come on! after all those yrs of marriage and clearly a lot of sex, is sex still the prime reason for their relationship? if it is, then they have far more serious issues then these health ones

 

[heisenberg]

It is NOT a closed loop system. Do you know how much mass is gained by meteorite strikes on earth every single year? 37,000-78,000 tons. This in the form of dust and micro-meteorites entering the atmosphere. Also, there is water and sometime organic compounds in those meteorites. The earth itself interacts with the Sun and moon, both of which have a massive effect on the climate and life on earth.

Back to the Eocene Era.. What do you think caused it? Whatever it was, it had nothing to do with Man or industry. It was not that long ago, geologically speaking. There has been an ice age since then. And global warming periods appear to be cyclic, so why are you so convinced that Man is behind this one? We are still coming out of the last ice age. The ice at the poles is supposed to be melting. The temperature is supposed to be rising.

Exactly who should be considering these climactic changes to be a "disaster"?

I don't know about you. but when its hot outside, I like going to the beach or to a pool. Or, just lay at home in my underwear and relax. I don't worry about UV rays or rising oceans. Why should I? They are supposed to raise when ice melts.

Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only be converted. That is the fundamental laws on the universe. The only place where the laws of physics don't make sense is when a black hole is formed. That's when the universe divides by zero.

Oh in case you are talking about, here is more proof that our effect is damaging the environment.
https://www.iflscience.com/environm...mit-greenhouse-gas-pollution-as-they-degrade/

Link to journal
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0200574

You are right that the eocene era did warm the climate, but that gave rise to trees and we had lush rainforest which caused the climate to reverse. Right now, trees are being cut at record levels which prevent the absorption of CO2 and methane. We are also pumping toxic chemicals in the air causing the heat to be trapped. That's the biggest concern here. Like I said, the earth will fix it self as it has done so for billions of years but I think we might go extinct with a flash.

 

[heisenberg]

The abuse of science and tech for profit in the medical field is another example of non-science <<the abuse of science is non-science>>>

On this-Sometimes you see a documentary or other info and know if you don't share it then you are a small part of the problem. This movie is one of those things---- THE BLEEDING EDGE on Netflix. it exposes the very traumatic physical, mental ,emotional and family effects products like cobalt joint replacements, vaginal meshes, and a female sterilization device called Essure has/are causing around the world and particularly in the US. Strange how the makes of Essure-Bayer, vehemently deny wrongdoing but yet decided to pull the product form the US (they pulled it from europe previously) shortly before the release of this film.

http://bleedingedgedoc.com/


------ --------------------------------------------------
one general comment on the state of some of these couples sex lives

issue is made about how many men have left their wives to find other sex partners after severe complications from either the essure device or the mesh

one guy had his penis cut by his wive's vagina after she had some mesh removed

I don't understand why these grown and seemingly mature men-far from hyper sexed teenagers- can't grow the hell up and have some compassion for their wives?

there are other ways to physically express love and, come on! after all those yrs of marriage and clearly a lot of sex, is sex still the prime reason for their relationship? if it is, then they have far more serious issues then these health ones

I love science. It's a shame that it is being manipulated/abused to achieve a political agenda for the root of all evil which is money. Funny how two of the things I dislike most gets away with paying taxes. Corporations and Religion. The root of all evil.

 

[Jim of WVa]

Corporations do pay taxes.

Do you remember those experiments that claimed that rising CO2 concentrations would destroy sea shells? Those experiments were conducted with hydrochloric acid. Increasing CO2 concentrations would create more carbonic acid, not hydrochloric acid. Increasing CO2 concentrations would increase the growth rate of those organisms and their shells.

 

[Jim of WVa]

 

[Lord Ba'al]