Windoze 7 Glitch?

[Joelist]

This is interesting if EXTREMELY talky:


I expect PCIe is where motherboards will be going for both storage and other (like dedicated graphics) types of addons. The bandwidth is far higher than even SATA/6. The beauty of being able to push I/O data through at these crazy speeds is we're starting to finally get rid of the gap between the CPU pipe and the storage in speed terms, which usually slowed the system down due to "starvation" happening.

 

[Bluce Ree]

This is interesting if EXTREMELY talky:


I expect PCIe is where motherboards will be going for both storage and other (like dedicated graphics) types of addons. The bandwidth is far higher than even SATA/6. The beauty of being able to push I/O data through at these crazy speeds is we're starting to finally get rid of the gap between the CPU pipe and the storage in speed terms, which usually slowed the system down due to "starvation" happening.

The biggest bottleneck in modern storage systems is the storage array's IOPs. Bandwidth throughput is one thing but having individual HDDs in the 75 to 200 IOPs range (15k rpm SAS = 175 - 210 IOPs) is what kills storage performance, which is where SSDs shine. On a RAID 10 drive array, the combined IOPs of all drives drastically improves performance but you still need a large number of conventional HDDs to get real performance and still never reach the performance of a single SSD.

Even on SATA3 interfaces, the bottleneck will be drive performance. Bandwidth only comes into play for large simultaneous sequential reads and writes. Most real world applications, though, don't involve moving large single files around (except maybe media streaming but there are clever ways around that). The most common application is database access that will be either heavy on random reads or heavy on random writes (balanced read/write being less common). Pushing around 4k, 8k or even 64k blocks isn't going to clog bandwidth but it will overwhelm the drive's on-board controller when it has to deal with thousands or even tens of thousands of these small operations per second. On a conventional HDD, this would drive the head nuts whereas on an SSD it's push to an address similar to how RAM works.

 

[Tripler]

So the brit prediction is premature I guess

 

[Joelist]

"brit prediction"?

If you're referring to the guy in the ASUS video, he is pretty much on the mark. PCIe will replace SATA for storage interfaces. Not only does it remove a bottleneck and allow for SSD sequential read/write and ramdom IOPs that are almost double the current SATA III drives but it simplifies motherboard design and also the drivers, as there is now one fewer type of interface to account for.

PCIe SSDs were crazy expensive but what we're seeing now is a price dropoff coupled with some unusual form factors (these drives actually look more like memory sticks than the traditional enclosed drive we are used to. This is the year we'll start seeing them in notebooks.

 

[Bluce Ree]

"brit prediction"?

If you're referring to the guy in the ASUS video, he is pretty much on the mark. PCIe will replace SATA for storage interfaces. Not only does it remove a bottleneck and allow for SSD sequential read/write and ramdom IOPs that are almost double the current SATA III drives but it simplifies motherboard design and also the drivers, as there is now one fewer type of interface to account for.

PCIe SSDs were crazy expensive but what we're seeing now is a price dropoff coupled with some unusual form factors (these drives actually look more like memory sticks than the traditional enclosed drive we are used to. This is the year we'll start seeing them in notebooks.

Sequential read/write speeds have more to do with the storage cell technology than bandwidth. If you compare most enterprise class SSDs side by side, you'll notice a huge disparity in IOPs but sequential read/write speeds are relatively close within the same class.

The fastest commercial drives in the enterprise space right now are by Fusion-IO. Specifically, this model:

http://www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive2

As of right now, IOPs for MLC and SLC cell technology tops out at somewhere in the 300k to 500k range. To achieve faster throughput, they combine storage cells with various forms of volatile RAM into a hybrid system that pushes performance to insane levels.

 

[Joelist]

True enough. Note that the drive you liked uses the PCIe bus not a SATA based one.

As to PCIe SSD performance, we're seeing the first appearances of PCIe SSDs in consumer laptops and desktops. With Read speeds of 800+ MB/S and Write of 760+ MB/S the performance is unreal. It even causes random read/write (a crucial measure) to jump up as well.

 

[Bluce Ree]

True enough. Note that the drive you liked uses the PCIe bus not a SATA based one.

Yup. If my data center were filled with those drives I'd be in geek heaven. The cost makes that prohibitive, though, except maybe in the billion dollar telecom space.

As to PCIe SSD performance, we're seeing the first appearances of PCIe SSDs in consumer laptops and desktops. With Read speeds of 800+ MB/S and Write of 760+ MB/S the performance is unreal. It even causes random read/write (a crucial measure) to jump up as well.

I hope drives never become embedded. Embedded graphics, embedded networking, ok. Embedded storage, though, I'm not sure I'm very comfortable with that.

 

[Joelist]

Not sure they ever will. But we are starting to see mobile and desktop motherboards with no SATA bus at all and additional PCIe connectivity.

 

[Tripler]

"brit prediction"?

If you're referring to the guy in the ASUS video, he is pretty much on the mark. PCIe will replace SATA for storage interfaces. Not only does it remove a bottleneck and allow for SSD sequential read/write and ramdom IOPs that are almost double the current SATA III drives but it simplifies motherboard design and also the drivers, as there is now one fewer type of interface to account for.

PCIe SSDs were crazy expensive but what we're seeing now is a price dropoff coupled with some unusual form factors (these drives actually look more like memory sticks than the traditional enclosed drive we are used to. This is the year we'll start seeing them in notebooks.

I was talking about the article I posted earlier from the British puter mag .

 

[Tripler]

Since I labbeled this thread as Windows 7 Glitch I will now use this as my latest Win7 install ... I think this will be # 11 install in the last 2 years .
Will probly attempt the procedure tonight or not ...

 

[Tripler]

Nope . Still did not do it and I am on the fence weather I want to or not . Seems like a lot of work just for me to play a few games . Resident Evil , Lara Croft , Left Four Dead , rFactor2

Maybe I should start reading books instead ( I just recently got this huge vintage car manual ) or just ride my vintage bike more often . I am not happy with windoz one megabit ,,, What did we all do before computers and smart phones huh ...

My work shed will be done by the end of the month so maybe I will be in there lots ...

 

[Tripler]

Ok so back in 7 again with Secure Boot disabled .Windows only did 4 updates . Interesting . Good ole malicious tool removal was on the top of windoz update list , prigs ... I have 19 optional updates that I will not do at this time . Had a frick of a time as windoz 7 did not install Ethernet drivers so I had to go and hunt down my Asus Motherboard CD and install the lan driver from there . That's unbelievable that it would not install that driver . Linux Mint does everything on install even your printer . Avast free , Video and Sound Blaster drivers reinstalled . Also this is my Samsung SSD 250 GB . Windows 7 took up 169 GB of free space with its install ! Wth eh ! Now off to Steam to get my Lara Croft game and my rFactor2 game .

 

[Overmind One]

Ok so back in 7 again with Secure Boot disabled .Windows only did 4 updates . Interesting . Good ole malicious tool removal was on the top of windoz update list , prigs ... I have 19 optional updates that I will not do at this time . Had a frick of a time as windoz 7 did not install Ethernet drivers so I had to go and hunt down my Asus Motherboard CD and install the lan driver from there . That's unbelievable that it would not install that driver . Linux Mint does everything on install even your printer . Avast free , Video and Sound Blaster drivers reinstalled . Also this is my Samsung SSD 250 GB . Windows 7 took up 169 GB of free space with its install ! Wth eh ! Now off to Steam to get my Lara Croft game and my rFactor2 game .

YAY! Yet another victory for the Geek Coalition! Microsoft is trying very hard to get OEMs to create boards which do not have the option of turning Secure Boot off. That essentially locks out Linux, OS X and everything except Windows. Microsoft still thinks it is the boss in operating systems! They think that they are viewed as a "must have" and that is just not the case anymore.

 

[Tripler]

Agree . It's a friggin horibble OS . I am so hoping Linux gets its gaming act together soon so we can wash are hands of Windoz ...

 

[Tripler]

So games seem to be playing well . My son should be happy lol ...

 

[Tripler]

Thanks for the tips again OM1 . That was some good stuff to know when installing windoz . I had a tough time at first as I could not find a way to disable secure boot as it gave me no option . But I did find a key logger boot just below it , I think thats what its called and it gave me the option to delete the preset key logs . I thought what the hell . I don't like you windoz so here goes . When I deleted them and went back to see what secure boot was saying and it was saying disabled , I was pretty dam happy .
So far no glitches other than the original stutter that win7 does when it boots since I built this machine . Games are running smoothly . Lara Croft almost gets 50 fps under stress test . Also I am finding myself using the chrome browser . Man is that thing fast compared to firefox . It should be called slowfox,tiredfox,sickfox,dumbfox,eatin by chromefox, ... Internet Explorer ! Never heard of it ...

 

[Tripler]

Mornin . Puter just did Win7 Service pack 1 Update . Watchin closely to see when they sneak the ole #10 under the radar and for the 2 updates that sneak in the sneaky stuff that do sneaky stuff when your least expecting sneaky stuff to be sneaked around...or is that snooped around ...

 

[Tripler]

Now its doing a 176 update . I still don't see the win x sneakin in yet . Probly will next time round ...

 

[Overmind One]

Now its doing a 176 update . I still don't see the win x sneakin in yet . Probly will next time round ...

You do realize that you will have to DISABLE Windows Update, right?

 

[Tripler]

Good point . Will do once its done its deed . I am watching for the winX and the other 2 nasty updates and have not seen them yet . Thanks for the reminder ...