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[shavedape]

An AU is the distance from the Earth to the Sun roughly speaking.

The Ringworld has a complete ecology and a fully functioning biosphere - the book describes it in some detail (it even has systems that handle erosion that are self powered and automated).

Don't want to get into spoilers but...the synopsis said there was a tech break down and the inhabitants had reverted to more primitive behavior. So I assume if the system wasn't operating then things would be messed up with the ecology/environment. Plus, the circumference was 600 million miles "long". Did they somehow transport that much soil and geological material in the creation of this device, and if so where did they get all of that material from to begin with?

I'll see if I can find the book because it's a very interesting concept. Even fictionally based the story begs many questions.

 

[Overmind One]

Refresh me on an "AU" (astronomical unit of measurement?)

The Ringworld thing looks interesting but I'd have to read the book to understand the details better. For instance, if it's an artificial world how do the inhabitants maintain their lives in terms of agriculture, etc? (not to give away any spoilers but what I did read about the book raised this question)

In technical terms:

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/au.html

1 AU = 149,597,870.691 kilometers

Definition: An Astronomical Unit is approximately the mean distance between the Earth and the Sun. It is a derived constant and used to indicate distances within the solar system. Its formal definition is the radius of an unperturbed circular orbit a massless body would revolve about the sun in 2*(pi)/k days (i.e., 365.2568983.... days), where k is defined as the Gaussian constant exactly equal to 0.01720209895. Since an AU is based on radius of a circular orbit, one AU is actually slightly less than the average distance between the Earth and the Sun (approximately 150 million km or 93 million miles).

Historical Background: Tycho Brahe estimated the distance between the Sun and the Earth at 8 million kilometers (5 million miles). Later, Johannes Kepler estimated the AU was at 24 million kilometers (15 million miles). In 1672, Giovanni Cassini made a much better estimate by using Mars. By observing Mars from Paris and having a colleague, Jean Richer, also observe Mars at the same time in French Guiana in South America, Cassini determined the parallax of Mars. From that Cassini was able to calculate the distance from Earth to Mars, and then the distance from Earth to the Sun. Cassini calculated the AU to be at 140 million kilometers (87 million miles), which is lower, but very close to the modern day number.



"Its formal definition is the radius of an unperturbed circular orbit a massless body would revolve about the sun"

The bolded portions are my problem with this unit. There is no such thing as an unperturbed circular orbit in nature. The Ringworld idea makes more sense because it is essentially a "slice" of the Dyson ring concept, consisting of a huge ring around the star instead of a complete sphere. The Dyson sphere is fascinating in concept, but have you ever taken a firecracker and wrapped it inside of a newspaper and lit it? It seems to me that a star which is orbiting a galactic core will be perturbed by other bodies in the same galaxy even if over great distances. We see it in nature already. Also, the mass of the inside of the sphere would affect gravity and also some of the radiation from the star would reflect back upon it which would amplify certain EM bands of energy (particularly high frequency ones). That would have the same effect as a laser does, except in 3D. The thing would likely explode in a few centuries. But the ring world could remain stable and still allow the star to "breathe".

 

[Bluce Ree]

Yeah, I cant imagine how a structure could be built without the star being AT LEAST as far away from the habitable areas as the earth is from the sun. Otherwise, you would have no liquids, and I cant imagine any life surviving. I thought the Trek episode "Relics" (was that the right one?) where they found Scotty on a Dyson sphere was done well. Amazing concept indeed!

And then they completely destroyed all that with Generations, forgetting the whole episode and how Scotty was excited at the thought that "Kirk himself" may have lead the search to find him.

 

[Bluce Ree]

That is part of Dyson's theory - the sphere shell is 1 AU from the Sun in the center.

As far as practicality I like the Ringworld better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld

It takes fewer resources, does not need gravity generators to work and you can see the stars.

So that's where they got the concept for Halo.

 

[Graybrew1]

And then they completely destroyed all that with Generations, forgetting the whole episode and how Scotty was excited at the thought that "Kirk himself" may have lead the search to find him.

How so?

 

[Bluce Ree]

How so?

When Scotty was rescued from the transporter buffer in "Relics", he thought Kirk himself lead the search to find him. In Generations, Scotty was there when Kirk was sucked into space as the cosmic string hit the ship.

Continuity error. This was discussed more than once. Generations was a hodge-podge slapped together for the sake of putting a movie out without much regard for continuity or common sense.

 

[Overmind One]

When Scotty was rescued from the transporter buffer in "Relics", he thought Kirk himself lead the search to find him. In Generations, Scotty was there when Kirk was sucked into space as the cosmic string hit the ship.

Continuity error. This was discussed more than once. Generations was a hodge-podge slapped together for the sake of putting a movie out without much regard for continuity or common sense.

Generations sucked. I did not like the idea of having Kirk in there, and yes the continuity error was huge and was discussed ad nauseum on Trek sites. I think that the fans drove its creation, however. At the time, many were excited about both crews being in the same movie. Scotty in fact left the TNG universe in a shuttle given to him by Picard. So, what happened to it and how did Scotty end up in Generations? If he was a Scotty from another timeline, that might do it but then how and when did he get on the Dyson sphere in Relics?

 

[Bluce Ree]

Generations sucked. I did not like the idea of having Kirk in there, and yes the continuity error was huge and was discussed ad nauseum on Trek sites. I think that the fans drove its creation, however. At the time, many were excited about both crews being in the same movie. Scotty in fact left the TNG universe in a shuttle given to him by Picard. So, what happened to it and how did Scotty end up in Generations? If he was a Scotty from another timeline, that might do it but then how and when did he get on the Dyson sphere in Relics?

Scotty's appearance in Generations was only on the maiden voyage of the Enterprise B, ages before TNG and before he crashed into the Dyson sphere.

The timeline basically went like this:

- Scotty on Enterprise B witnesses end of Kirk
- Scotty retires and crashes into Dyson sphere then stores himself in the transporter buffer
- 75 years later, the Enterprise D finds the sphere and rescues Scotty, who believes Kirk found him (huh? but he saw him die)
- Scotty is sent on his merry way in an Enterprise D shuttle craft
- Generations sucked

That last one isn't part of the timeline per se but needs to be reiterated.

 

[Overmind One]

Scotty's appearance in Generations was only on the maiden voyage of the Enterprise B, ages before TNG and before he crashed into the Dyson sphere.

The timeline basically went like this:

- Scotty on Enterprise B witnesses end of Kirk
- Scotty retires and crashes into Dyson sphere then stores himself in the transporter buffer
- 75 years later, the Enterprise D finds the sphere and rescues Scotty, who believes Kirk found him (huh? but he saw him die)
- Scotty is sent on his merry way in an Enterprise D shuttle craft
- Generations sucked

That last one isn't part of the timeline per se but needs to be reiterated.

Ah, yes. Makes sense....including the last item, and IMHO it is still part of the timeline!

 

[Illiterati]

He's Scotty, the "Miracle Worker". I'm convinced he can do anything.

(Still mad that when they DID actually "discover" transparent aluminum a few years ago, they didn't name it Scottinium in his honor.

And dammit, they should have!)

 

[Graybrew1]

When Scotty was rescued from the transporter buffer in "Relics", he thought Kirk himself lead the search to find him. In Generations, Scotty was there when Kirk was sucked into space as the cosmic string hit the ship.

Continuity error. This was discussed more than once. Generations was a hodge-podge slapped together for the sake of putting a movie out without much regard for continuity or common sense.

Egad, I remember your VERY strong feelings for that movie. LOL.
Now the question is, how about ST 09? They could have changed all of it. It might have created one of those two different timelines.

 

[Graybrew1]

Scotty's appearance in Generations was only on the maiden voyage of the Enterprise B, ages before TNG and before he crashed into the Dyson sphere.

The timeline basically went like this:

- Scotty on Enterprise B witnesses end of Kirk
- Scotty retires and crashes into Dyson sphere then stores himself in the transporter buffer
- 75 years later, the Enterprise D finds the sphere and rescues Scotty, who believes Kirk found him (huh? but he saw him die)
- Scotty is sent on his merry way in an Enterprise D shuttle craft
- Generations sucked

That last one isn't part of the timeline per se but needs to be reiterated.

No, ST 09 should be respected as part of the timeline, I competely disagree. It just makes the whole thing even harder to figure out which timeline is which.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Egad, I remember your VERY strong feelings for that movie. LOL.
Now the question is, how about ST 09? They could have changed all of it. It might have created one of those two different timelines.

Well, no. ST '09 is an entirely new timeline with some very radical differences. Kirk became captain much earlier than in the original time line. He went from cadet to Captain of the Enterprise after one mission. In the original timeline, he was promoted to Lieutenant and served aboard the USS Farragut afterwhich he received his first command before being given the USS Enterprise, which now did not happen.

Capt Pike is not a vegetable with two blinking lights as his only means of communication (despite it being the 23rd century, having mastered artificial gravity warping space ... LOL). Let's not forget that Vulcan is gone and along with it most of Vulcan's people and resources such as ships, etc.

Oh, yeah, and the two most important changes. A spiffy, shiny new Apple Store on the bridge of the flagship and a giant brewery built around the warp "cores" (used to be "core"). We can see how priorities have changed in this case. Getting tanked and hanging out at the Apple Store are now part of the ST future culture.

 

[Illiterati]

Well, no. ST '09 is an entirely new timeline with some very radical differences. Kirk became captain much earlier than in the original time line. He went from cadet to Captain of the Enterprise after one mission. In the original timeline, he was promoted to Lieutenant and served aboard the USS Farragut afterwhich he received his first command before being given the USS Enterprise, which now did not happen.

Capt Pike is not a vegetable with two blinking lights as his only means of communication (despite it being the 23rd century, having mastered artificial gravity warping space ... LOL). Let's not forget that Vulcan is gone and along with it most of Vulcan's people and resources such as ships, etc.

Oh, yeah, and the two most important changes. A spiffy, shiny new Apple Store on the bridge of the flagship and a giant brewery built around the warp "cores" (used to be "core"). We can see how priorities have changed in this case. Getting tanked and hanging out at the Apple Store are now part of the ST future culture.

Perhaps they need special temps in order to properly brew Romulan White Lightning?

Hehe.

 

[Bluce Ree]

No, ST 09 should be respected as part of the timeline, I competely disagree. It just makes the whole thing even harder to figure out which timeline is which.

ST '09 is an entirely new timeline that deletes everything we've seen in the old timeline with a radically different chain of events, as I pointed out above.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Perhaps they need special temps in order to properly brew Romulan White Lightning?

Hehe.

 

[Graybrew1]

Well, no. ST '09 is an entirely new timeline with some very radical differences. Kirk became captain much earlier than in the original time line. He went from cadet to Captain of the Enterprise after one mission. In the original timeline, he was promoted to Lieutenant and served aboard the USS Farragut afterwhich he received his first command before being given the USS Enterprise, which now did not happen.

Capt Pike is not a vegetable with two blinking lights as his only means of communication (despite it being the 23rd century, having mastered artificial gravity warping space ... LOL). Let's not forget that Vulcan is gone and along with it most of Vulcan's people and resources such as ships, etc.

Oh, yeah, and the two most important changes. A spiffy, shiny new Apple Store on the bridge of the flagship and a giant brewery built around the warp "cores" (used to be "core"). We can see how priorities have changed in this case. Getting tanked and hanging out at the Apple Store are now part of the ST future culture.

I actually knew what your response what be, I just spoon fed it to you to hear you say it again. LOL.
I do disagree. I think with time travel and altered timelines anything is possible. Think about the "Butterfly Effect".

Either way I look forward to the next movie of ST in 2050 right? However long it takes, I hope they make it interesting and use full effect of the different timeline.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I actually knew what your response what be, I just spoon fed it to you to hear you say it again. LOL.
I do disagree. I think with time travel and altered timelines anything is possible. Think about the "Butterfly Effect".

Either way I look forward to the next move of ST in 2050 right? However long it takes, I hope they make it interesting and use full effect of the different timeline.

I really like the new ST. I just wish they'd hurry up already with the sequels. I hate long hiatuses.

 

[Graybrew1]

I really like the new ST. I just wish they'd hurry up already with the sequels. I hate long hiatuses.

From your lips......

I completely agree.

 

[Overmind One]

Well, no. ST '09 is an entirely new timeline with some very radical differences. Kirk became captain much earlier than in the original time line. He went from cadet to Captain of the Enterprise after one mission. In the original timeline, he was promoted to Lieutenant and served aboard the USS Farragut afterwhich he received his first command before being given the USS Enterprise, which now did not happen.

Capt Pike is not a vegetable with two blinking lights as his only means of communication (despite it being the 23rd century, having mastered artificial gravity warping space ... LOL). Let's not forget that Vulcan is gone and along with it most of Vulcan's people and resources such as ships, etc.

Oh, yeah, and the two most important changes. A spiffy, shiny new Apple Store on the bridge of the flagship and a giant brewery built around the warp "cores" (used to be "core"). We can see how priorities have changed in this case. Getting tanked and hanging out at the Apple Store are now part of the ST future culture.

Yep, and ordering "Slusho", making out in turbolifts and now goodbye kisses on the transporter pad. Also, we have a ship's computer which can translate perfect 26th century Romulan from Nero, but it has trouble understanding Chekov? We have "red matter" that makes black holes big enough to swallow planets, but not unstable enough to be held in a huge container on a Vulcan science ship?