The Ethics of using root access to gain control over your device (and your carrier charges)

[Joelist]

Exactly Bluce.

This is why if you want to take your phone around to other carriers you wind up going aftermarket (like eBay) and getting a carrier unlocked phone. Even then you need to make sure the device operates on the correct network technologies and bandwidth.

 

[Overmind One]

I thought you said your phone is a Galaxy S2 Epic 4G. That is what I looked up and it said it uses WiMax. In any event Sprint phones are also CDMA and T-Mobile is GSM.

Its a Galaxy Epic 4G TOUCH. Its a different phone than the DPH-700. Its the DPH-710 which is a whole new animal. The Epic 4G was the phone before the Touch. The new one uses WiMAX as well as being ready for LTE (as was the Epic4G).

Maybe not T-Mobile, but there are lots of carriers who have CDMA (notably Verizon):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_wireless_communications_service_providers

Thing is, according to all of my contacts, Sprint is not in enforcement mode because they are losing THOUSANDS of contracts due to the changes in its hotspot policy. THOUSANDS: http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/tec...gn=Feed:+rss/money_mostpopular+(Most+Popular)

Here is the thread on Sprint: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/73435

In Southern California where competition is greatest, they are bleeding as though they were decapitated. . People are not buying brand names, they are shopping COST vs Features. Sprint's edge was its "Unlimited data" plan which nobody was offering when it was created. They are no longer offering unlimited data, regardless of the advertising, and people are finding out very quickly. The problem is not using hotpots. The problem is that carriers keep trying to breach the licensing they agreed to by offering Android devices. The hotspot is PART OF Android. Just like in your Windows computer, the Control Panel is part of Windows. A carrier attempting to charge you for features BUILT IN to the device or the operating system is crossing the line, plain and simple. If HP delivered desktop computers with the Control Panel disabled, then tried to charge you access to it, it would be the same thing.

Whats more, the contract says absolutely nothing about hotspot or tethering. It has a clause about "excessive use", but that is pretty much null when you are offering "Unlimited data". It is either unlimited or it is not. If you go to an all-you-can-eat restaurant special, and then ket kicked out for eating "too much", who is in the wrong?

To whomever voted to "just pay the cost", that sort of apathy is what allows freedoms to be taken away bit by bit. If people like me did not complain then the carriers would continue with even more advances into MY freedoms. If it werent for people speaking up and fighting for what is right, there still might be slavery in this country today. Just sayin.

 

[Joelist]

I did look specifically at the Touch. It uses WiMax not LTE. So if someone told you your phone would support LTE they misled you. LTE requires a different antenna and radio - it is not just a firmware thing you can flash.

 

[Overmind One]

I did look specifically at the Touch. It uses WiMax not LTE. So if someone told you your phone would support LTE they misled you. LTE requires a different antenna and radio - it is not just a firmware thing you can flash.

You are right!: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/88082

But when I purchased it, they said it would support LTE...more reason to leave Sprint. . I will only leave them if I can get out of the early termination fee. I am actually very happy with my internet service on the phone and on the hotspot, LTE or not. Its the ethics of the company and what they are charging me that is making me hot under the collar.

 

[Overmind One]

Speaking about Galaxy phones, the Galaxy SIII is still a dual core phone. . It is no more powerful than my Epic 4G Touch, but it has a slightly larger screen...not worth the upgrade to me. I will upgrade to the next QUAD CORE phone, but this Epic4G Touch is an awesome phone and I can take it to Verizon if I switch. I looked at the Nexus phone, and it is not quite on the level of my E4GT. It has a dial core processor, only a 5MP camera on back and 1.2 on the front. Processor is the same speed. The screen is bigger, and it comes with ICS 4.0, but my E4GT is running FF18, with ICS 4.04. Not looking like an upgrade candidate for me.

 

[Joelist]

Actually the SIII is a lot more powerful. It may be dual core (for now) but those cores are S4 "Krait" on a 28nm die shrink with the LTE radio on die. That translates into both a goodly speed bump over your current phone as well as better battery life.

Speaking of Verizon, if you take your current phone there you'll have voice but no data. Verizon does not support WiMax and the 3G is also a different type. If you're going to move to Verizon your best bet is to wait until September and there should be REALLY nice deals on new phones for new customers.

 

[Overmind One]

Actually the SIII is a lot more powerful. It may be dual core (for now) but those cores are S4 "Krait" on a 28nm die shrink with the LTE radio on die. That translates into both a goodly speed bump over your current phone as well as better battery life.

Speaking of Verizon, if you take your current phone there you'll have voice but no data. Verizon does not support WiMax and the 3G is also a different type. If you're going to move to Verizon your best bet is to wait until September and there should be REALLY nice deals on new phones for new customers.

The Galaxy SIII is not enough of a jump in performance to justify buying it IMO. I want THIS Galaxy SIII (quad core): http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9300_galaxy_s_iii-4238.php But that is the international version. The 4.5" screen is still huge compared to the iPhone, and the power is more an adequate for my needs. I agree about the new Verizon plans. But after calling Verizon, they tell me I can use my Epic 4G Touch on their network, go figure. Without data, it is not a smartphone. And if push comes to shove, I know many people who would LOVE to have my E4GT who are on Sprint and do not plan to leave just yet.

Why would they cripple the Nexus Phone with such a low end camera on the back and the front? The tablet is way better. My E4GT has an 8mp camera on back and a 2mp in the front.

 

[Joelist]

Verizon phone and in store reps are legendarily stupid. Trust me, WiMax is not a compatible data network technology.

As to the SIII, I simply wanted to be sure you were not totally equating number of cores with performance. A dual core chip can and frequently does out speed a quad core in most applications because the extra cores need scenarios where the usage has more than two threads to come into play. Most phone apps and indeed most desktop apps at present use only one or 2 threads. Two cores on a more efficient architecture that lets them run at a higher clock while staying in the power envelope can outperform 4 less efficient cores - this has been showing up during the year with Krait in many scenarios outperforming Tegra 3.

Plus, right now you're getting Dual Core SIII because it is the only way to get the correct LTE radio for now.

 

[Overmind One]

Verizon phone and in store reps are legendarily stupid. Trust me, WiMax is not a compatible data network technology.

As to the SIII, I simply wanted to be sure you were not totally equating number of cores with performance. A dual core chip can and frequently does out speed a quad core in most applications because the extra cores need scenarios where the usage has more than two threads to come into play. Most phone apps and indeed most desktop apps at present use only one or 2 threads. Two cores on a more efficient architecture that lets them run at a higher clock while staying in the power envelope can outperform 4 less efficient cores - this has been showing up during the year with Krait in many scenarios outperforming Tegra 3.

Plus, right now you're getting Dual Core SIII because it is the only way to get the correct LTE radio for now.

I see that a lot on desktop machines being used as a virtual host for multiple VMs, and that is true. The way I use my phone is more like a computer than a phone. I have networkmonitoring tools installed on it (specifically, Spiceworks, Kaseya), and I use it to remote to client computers via Teamviewer and WYSE PocketCloud. In a pinch, I use it as a full computer using my Ubuntu 12.04 which is running in ARM (works very well). I connect the phone via HDMI to a full sized monitor. I have a bluetooth keyboard and mouse paired to the phone for that. When traveling, I usually carry my tablet and use the hotspot to access internet (hence my dilemma in this thread). But in a pinch, I will fire up Netflix or other entertainment on the phone and have it connected to a monitor. So, besides needing decent resolution (which the SIII has over the SII), I do not really need the computing power except when multitasking.

My Epic 4G Touch not being compatible with Verizon (or another carrier) wont be an issue if it comes time to move to another carrier. I will simply purchase a new phone that WILL work. Not a problem.

I want to move to an all-in-one device like the Samsung Galaxy Note (because there are no other devices quite like it at the moment), which blurs the line between a phone and a tablet, with a quad core processor and hotspot capability and an expandable SD port and HDMI. The Galaxy Note has all of that except the quad core processor. But the next one will have one.

 

[Overmind One]

LOL....I found a way to confuse them as much as I was confused with my hotspot dilemma. I have Ubuntu 12.04 installed on my phone as well as my tablet. If I surf from my Ubuntu 12.04 Virtual Machine, the header will show Ubuntu. But Im sure if they go deeper, they can see more. From my understanding, Sprint is not enforcing the non-Sprint hotspot workaround yet. But I assume they will be because they are introducing a tiered plan for hotspot. I was told that the "average" use is using about 1GB a month, and I use NO LESS than at least 5GB, sometimes 15GB. I am willing to pay, but the top package is only 6GB. I keep fighting with the ethics, but it keeps coming back to "They are screwing me".

 

[Bluce Ree]

You are right!: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/88082

But when I purchased it, they said it would support LTE...more reason to leave Sprint. . I will only leave them if I can get out of the early termination fee. I am actually very happy with my internet service on the phone and on the hotspot, LTE or not. Its the ethics of the company and what they are charging me that is making me hot under the collar.

With so many phones that can be purchased on Craigslist both slightly used and still new in the box, I'm thoroughly confused as to why people are still signing long term contracts with ANY mobile carrier.

 

[Bluce Ree]

LOL....I found a way to confuse them as much as I was confused with my hotspot dilemma. I have Ubuntu 12.04 installed on my phone as well as my tablet. If I surf from my Ubuntu 12.04 Virtual Machine, the header will show Ubuntu. But Im sure if they go deeper, they can see more. From my understanding, Sprint is not enforcing the non-Sprint hotspot workaround yet. But I assume they will be because they are introducing a tiered plan for hotspot. I was told that the "average" use is using about 1GB a month, and I use NO LESS than at least 5GB, sometimes 15GB. I am willing to pay, but the top package is only 6GB. I keep fighting with the ethics, but it keeps coming back to "They are screwing me".

What ethics? Unlimited is UNLIMITED, period. Why the guilt? You think they're losing sleep over screwing you with the hotspot charge bullshit?

It's a scam. Hotspot or not, your phone is both a standalone device and a modem that can be used to pass data through. Just proxy the damned thing and be done with it. If they want to limit data then they should just limit data and not try to artificially classify it by "native" and "hotspot originated" for the idiot masses who honestly believe there's a difference.

If you're still feeling guilty, here's how you get around your ethical dilemma. What they call a "hotspot" is actually just a wifi router. If they don't spell the language out correctly, simply tell yourself you don't recognized your phone as a "hotspot" and, therefore, are not in any ethically compromising position.

 

[Overmind One]

What ethics? Unlimited is UNLIMITED, period. Why the guilt? You think they're losing sleep over screwing you with the hotspot charge bullshit?

It's a scam. Hotspot or not, your phone is both a standalone device and a modem that can be used to pass data through. Just proxy the damned thing and be done with it. If they want to limit data then they should just limit data and not try to artificially classify it by "native" and "hotspot originated" for the idiot masses who honestly believe there's a difference.

If you're still feeling guilty, here's how you get around your ethical dilemma. What they call a "hotspot" is actually just a wifi router. If they don't spell the language out correctly, simply tell yourself you don't recognized your phone as a "hotspot" and, therefore, are not in any ethically compromising position.

I just checked my usage, and it is frozen at the data percentage it was the day I canceled the hotspot (it arrives as a text message to 1311). But the phone data usage is still increasing. . This means they are NOT tracking it yet. The hotspot is working fine, and now I can connect up to 8 devices instead of only 5!

 

[Overmind One]

UPDATE:

The latest FH13 OTA update breaks the phone's router. Meaning, you cannot use root apps to access it anymore. In fact, FH13 breaks root too. You can re-root using ODIN one-click, but as soon as you do, the FH13 will again nag and force you to update. If you refuse, the hotspot function will still fail. This update breaks all alternate methods, such as Bluetooth tether, USB tether and Wireless tether. Manually setting the gateway and IP will not work either. For now, Droid hackers have not figured out how this is being done so there is no fix.