Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens

[Atlantis]

Pretty sure people still confuse space opera with Science Fiction.

Even then, people will say that Space Opera is a 'sub genre' of science fiction.

Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that often emphasizes romantic, often melodramatic adventure, set mainly or entirely in outer space, usually involving conflict between opponents possessing advanced abilities, weapons, and other technology. The term has no relation to music but is instead a play on the term "soap opera". (Wikipedia: Space Opera)

 

[heisenberg]

Dilithium is a real molecule used in a fictional context to control the reaction between matter and anti-matter, which provides the power required to warp space. The only semi-magic part here is dilithium, which is completely unnecessary. The rest is based on theoretical science. It is theoretically possible to achieve faster-than-light travel by warping space, compressing the space in front of the craft while stretching the space behind it, thus traveling great distances without technically being in motion. However the power requirement to achieve this is still beyond our current technology.

Star Wars has no plausible "science". It's a fairy tale in space.

Not unless we can crack fusion and have an efficient fusion as our core reactor. Though, this won't happen during our life time. It will happen in probably 200-300 years from now or maybe 2063 when we make first contact .

 

[Overmind One]

Even then, people will say that Space Opera is a 'sub genre' of science fiction.

That definition is so lame. Space Opera is a sub-genre of DRAMA, not science fiction. You can do Romeo and Juliet in space and then call it The Phantom Menace, but that does not change it from drama to science fiction. SGU was never science fiction.

 

[Atlantis]

That definition is so lame. Space Opera is a sub-genre of DRAMA, not science fiction. You can do Romeo and Juliet in space and then call it The Phantom Menace, but that does not change it from drama to science fiction. SGU was never science fiction.

I know, tell me about it. I have to deal with idiots on an another forum trying to argue my points about musical genres. I agree, it was never Sci-Fi. But, I also felt that the latter series of SG-1 became more fantasy/mythical rather than sci-fi

 

[Overmind One]

End discussion

That's nice dude, it really is, but technobabble is not science, it's babble made to -sound- like science.
Gene also said he was not going to explain how a warp core works because people do not stand around explaining how internal combustion engine's work either. In addition, you are not really using a level playing field to determine which has more "science" in it. SW had 3 movies to tell a story, ST has had hundreds of hours of television and 6 movies before 1-3 came out.
I'll take story over technowank in such a small space.

Again, why waste time out of your 9 hours of film?
Would you think SW was more sciencey if they explained hyperdrives with technobabble?


All those things are in TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY and the movies if you want to -look for them, Just sayin!

Gene cannot explain how a warp core works because there was no such thing. But he could imagine the power supply for an interstellar engine, and the first was ion power. It was not until it was discovered that ion power could not generate the kind of power it would take to warp space and provide faster than light travel, so he changed it to matter/antimatter. In either case, the element of dilithium was to be used as a mediator. Every piece of tech on Star Trek had at least some effort put towards it to explain it. It did not just appear or have functions which could be classified as magical. That did not come until the Q.

There is ZERO science in Star Wars, and there never has been. I think that is just fine for Star Wars because science was never a part of it. Star Trek started out telling stories of social commentary (because it was transitioning the viewing audience to science fiction. The first season stories could have been told in a western with different surrounds. But after the first season, the second and third seasons explored science fiction and still had drama. Throughout, efforts were made to explain the technology we saw in the show. What sounds like "technobabble" to one person makes perfect sense to another. If I start talking about how devices use LDAP or explaining the layers of the network to somebody, they will hear technobabble, when I am making perfect sense. So, the appeal is to people who are into science and technology and that was exactly who followed it after TOS was over and they are responsible for the movies and TNG.

Star Wars EU still had no science in it, and that was years of fan writing and ideas. Again, this is perfectly okay for Star Wars. It is NOT okay to remove the science from Star Trek and make it into fantasy/action.

 

[Overmind One]

Phew, pretty sure they ain't here

IIRC, you and I had a long drawn out argument and your argument was that Star Wars was science fiction.

 

[Bluce Ree]

And I don't see where anyone here has said otherwise

Yep but you tried to draw a comparison, equating warp drive to star wars magic.

Nice try, though.

 

[Overmind One]

I know, tell me about it. I have to deal with idiots on an another forum trying to argue my points about musical genres. I agree, it was never Sci-Fi. But, I also felt that the latter series of SG-1 became more fantasy/mythical rather than sci-fi

I have that musical genre argument too, and even the "what is real music" argument. If you are a musician like I am, then I understand your pain. NO, programming a sequencer or "trimming loops" is not musicianship, and NO rapping is not a form of singing.

 

[Overmind One]

Yep but you tried to draw a comparison, equating warp drive to star wars magic.

Nice try, though.

He definitely did try that and so did GateFan. I only hang my head when anyone brings up the Q ( which I hated).

 

[heisenberg]

I have that musical genre argument too, and even the "what is real music" argument. If you are a musician like I am, then I understand your pain. NO, programming a sequencer or "trimming loops" is not musicianship, and NO rapping is not a form of singing.

There is a lot of music made on computer that sounds fantastic and sounds just as good as the "real thing". The BSG soundtrack was done on computer and same goes for the Stargate soundtracks. Bet you didn't know that

There is also a lot to music than the shit you hear on the radio or the front page of youtube which a very bad representation of what is possible. Electronic music is just as good as the "real thing".

Rapping is also a form of singing when it's done right. People say that it's not art but try by rhyming words and have it make sense. It's really tough. Like I said, forget about listening to commercial music. It's all filled with crap these days.

 

[Overmind One]

There is a lot of music made on computer that sounds fantastic and sounds just as good as the "real thing". The BSG soundtrack was done on computer and same goes for the Stargate soundtracks. Bet you didn't know that

There is also a lot to music than the shit you hear on the radio or the front page of youtube which a very bad representation of what is possible. Electronic music is just as good as the "real thing". Here are examples. All done on computer.






Rapping is also a form of singing when it's done right. People say that it's not art but try by rhyming words and have it make sense. It's really tough. Like I said, forget about listening to commercial music. It's all filled with crap these days.

That is not the argument. I am a trained pianist. But I play on a digital piano now because it is no longer practical for me to have a real one anymore. But I am a musician because I know how to read and write music and I know what harmony is and how to compose my music. Somebody who just programs beats and uses loops is NOT a musician. They are a performer. And no, rapping is not singing. It is not a form of singing, any more than reciting poetry is singing. When there is singing in rap songs, that part is singing and the rap part is not. Rapping is not singing. Reciting poetry to the tune of a beat is not singing. Having said that, I do agree that it is art. And contrary to popular belief, rapping is NOT tough. Only the rise to popularity is tough. Rappers come from the poorest, least educated segments of our society and many of them are functionally illiterate.

 

[heisenberg]

That is not the argument. I am a trained pianist. But I play on a digital piano now because it is no longer practical for me to have a real one anymore. But I am a musician because I know how to read and write music and I know what harmony is and how to compose my music. Somebody who just programs beats and uses loops is NOT a musician.

Have you ever used digital audio workstation before? It's VERY tough to master. Most people make music on the computer tend to have a musical background, or have played an instrument. Electronic musicians do more just create loops or create beats. Yes, there are cheap hacks out there, but that's not to say that there aren't a lot of great electronic musicians out there.

They are a performer. And no, rapping is not singing. It is not a form of singing, any more than reciting poetry is singing. When there is singing in rap songs, that part is singing and the rap part is not. Rapping is not singing. Reciting poetry to the tune of a beat is not singing. Having said that, I do agree that it is art. And contrary to popular belief, rapping is NOT tough. Only the rise to popularity is tough. Rappers come from the poorest, least educated segments of our society and many of them are functionally illiterate.

Not true! There are a lot of good rappers out that can sing. Eminem is one of them. His older stuff is absolutely deep. It's very storytelling.

 

[Overmind One]

Have you ever used digital audio workstation before? It's VERY tough to master. Most people make music on the computer tend to have a musical background, or have played an instrument. Electronic musicians do more just create loops or create beats. Yes, there are cheap hacks out there, but that's not to say that there aren't a lot of great electronic musicians out there.

YES! I have ProTools, FL Studio Pro, Garage Band, and have tried a few others. I know how to program sequencers and I know MIDI and how to use MIDI channels and modules. But that is not musicianship. Much of the "music" made by people on computers is done by using the built in functions of the software like quantizing, autotune, auto chording and other tools. The MAJORITY of "music" out there is not at all musical. Somebody who uses a keyboard to play horn parts or uses a drumkit and cannot play actual drums is not really a musician. I find that the best electronic musicians are actual musicians who play on an electronic instrument. It takes no musical training to create today's "music" on a digital audio workstation. Besides jazz and orchestral music, there is not much actual music out there.

Not true! There are a lot of good rappers out that can sing. Eminem is one of them. His older stuff is absolutely deep. It's very storytelling.

That is not my argument. Yes, there are many rappers out there who can sing. But only the singing part of the tune is singing, and the rapping is not singing. Being deep or meaningful has nothing to do with the act of singing as opposed to rapping. Rapping is not singing. For instance, The Beastie Boys are not singers. Their stuff is not singing.

 

[Atlantis]

YES! I have ProTools, FL Studio Pro, Garage Band, and have tried a few others. I know how to program sequencers and I know MIDI and how to use MIDI channels and modules. But that is not musicianship. Much of the "music" made by people on computers is done by using the built in functions of the software like quantizing, autotune, auto chording and other tools. The MAJORITY of "music" out there is not at all musical. Somebody who uses a keyboard to play horn parts or uses a drumkit and cannot play actual drums is not really a musician. I find that the best electronic musicians are actual musicians who play on an electronic instrument. It takes no musical training to create today's "music" on a digital audio workstation. Besides jazz and orchestral music, there is not much actual music out there.



That is not my argument. Yes, there are many rappers out there who can sing. But only the singing part of the tune is singing, and the rapping is not singing. Being deep or meaningful has nothing to do with the act of singing as opposed to rapping. Rapping is not singing. For instance, The Beastie Boys are not singers. Their stuff is not singing.

Some people still use hardware synths to make some electronic music.Musicians like Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, JMJ, Klaus Schulze and Steve Roach use hardware synthesisers and samples sometimes or digital synths I have nothing against using samples.


Back to the topic: They are making Star Wars - Rogue one for anyone who is a fan of this lame franchise.


The quality is bad but it was the only one I could fine a teaser.

 

[YJ02]

Dilithium is a real molecule used in a fictional context to control the reaction between matter and anti-matter, which provides the power required to warp space. The only semi-magic part here is dilithium, which is completely unnecessary. The rest is based on theoretical science. It is theoretically possible to achieve faster-than-light travel by warping space, compressing the space in front of the craft while stretching the space behind it, thus traveling great distances without technically being in motion. However the power requirement to achieve this is still beyond our current technology.

Star Wars has no plausible "science". It's a fairy tale in space.

I understand how you feel...many are feeling the same thing.

With the total hack up off a cherished show/movie like Star Trek by the JJ crew, I would feel the same way--and I do, Star Trek has been destroyed as a hard science/social scien

Yep but you tried to draw a comparison, equating warp drive to star wars magic.

Nice try, though.

because warp drive,as explained in ST is not real or possible

the theoretical warp drive you are speaking of is the idea that a mexican physicist came up with and has been taken up by one of NASA's sub units but so far, no relable source of energy for it exists

Is Warp Drive Real?

Ever since the sound barrier was broken, people have turned their attention to how we can break the light speed barrier. But “Warp Drive” or any other term for faster-than-light travel still remains at the level of speculation.

The bulk of scientific knowledge concludes that it’s impossible, especially when considering Einstein’s Theory of Relativity. There are certainly some credible concepts in scientific literature, however it’s too soon to know if they are viable.

Science fiction writers have given us many images of interstellar travel, but traveling at the speed of light is simply imaginary at present.

In the meantime, science moves forward. And while NASA is not pursuing interstellar flight, scientists here continue to advance ion propulsion for missions to deep space and beyond using solar electric power. This form of propulsion is the fastest and most efficient to date.

There are many “absurd” theories that have become reality over the years of scientific research. But for the near future, warp drive remains a dream.

If you would like to know more about the theories of interstellar flight, you should visit the Tau Zero Foundation. Marc Millis, a former NASA Glenn physicist, founded the organization to consider revolutionary advancements in propulsion.

Past articles of warp drive found at this location have been archived.

Last Updated: Nov. 4, 2015
Editor: NASA Administrator

from : http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/warp.html

 

[YJ02]

Some people still use hardware synths to make some electronic music.Musicians like Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, JMJ, Klaus Schulze and Steve Roach use hardware synthesisers and samples sometimes or digital synths I have nothing against using samples.


Back to the topic: They are making Star Wars - Rogue one for anyone who is a fan of this lame franchise.


The quality is bad but it was the only one I could fine a teaser.

there are threads here for each anthology film--just saying

 

[YJ02]

Yep but you tried to draw a comparison, equating warp drive to star wars magic.

Nice try, though.

And just because JJ destroyed the great story that was once ST, doesn't mean you have to poo-poo all over SW's

and that ends my involvement in this ridiculous and juvenile distraction that is "ST is better then SW's" or vice versa!!! I like both (except nuTreK), I watch both and enjoy both of them within the context of what they are-entertainment

if you want some "real" sci -fi, then tune into the NASA channel! They have some excellent animation on theoretical physics!

 

[heisenberg]

I understand how you feel...many are feeling the same thing.

With the total hack up off a cherished show/movie like Star Trek by the JJ crew, I would feel the same way--and I do, Star Trek has been destroyed as a hard science/social scien


because warp drive,as explained in ST is not real or possible

the theoretical warp drive you are speaking of is the idea that a mexican physicist came up with and has been taken up by one of NASA's sub units but so far, no relable source of energy for it exists

Is Warp Drive Real?

Ever since the sound barrier was broken, people have turned their attention to how we can break the light speed barrier. But “Warp Drive” or any other term for faster-than-light travel still remains at the level of speculation.

The bulk of scientific knowledge concludes that it’s impossible, especially when considering Einstein’s Theory of Relativity. There are certainly some credible concepts in scientific literature, however it’s too soon to know if they are viable.

Science fiction writers have given us many images of interstellar travel, but traveling at the speed of light is simply imaginary at present.

In the meantime, science moves forward. And while NASA is not pursuing interstellar flight, scientists here continue to advance ion propulsion for missions to deep space and beyond using solar electric power. This form of propulsion is the fastest and most efficient to date.

There are many “absurd” theories that have become reality over the years of scientific research. But for the near future, warp drive remains a dream.

If you would like to know more about the theories of interstellar flight, you should visit the Tau Zero Foundation. Marc Millis, a former NASA Glenn physicist, founded the organization to consider revolutionary advancements in propulsion.

Past articles of warp drive found at this location have been archived.

Last Updated: Nov. 4, 2015
Editor: NASA Administrator

from : http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/warp.html

As blue-reece said and as the article says, at present we don't have the capabilities, but if there is one species that can do it, it's our. Life in itself is so improbable if you look outside the nightsky, but here we are chatting to each other. It took billions of years for life to form and we are but a speck of dust in that large time frame of 14 billion years. Imagine if our species got 14 billion years to live? We could pretty much conquer the entire universe if had that much time.

Just to give you some perspective of where we are when it comes to space travel, New Horizons traveled at 15.73 kilometers per second. That's 55440 Km/h. It's still a far cry from light speed, but we are getting closer and closer

 

[Bluce Ree]

And just because JJ destroyed the great story that was once ST, doesn't mean you have to poo-poo all over SW's

and that ends my involvement in this ridiculous and juvenile distraction that is "ST is better then SW's" or vice versa!!!

You can keep moving those goal posts to make it look like this is ST vs SW but it isn't. It was, and remains, a reply to your post stating that "warp drive" was magic just like SW in an attempt to equate the two.

 

[Bluce Ree]

because warp drive,as explained in ST is not real or possible

the theoretical warp drive you are speaking of is the idea that a mexican physicist came up with and has been taken up by one of NASA's sub units but so far, no relable source of energy for it exists

You do understand the difference between "theoretical" and "actual", right?

Lasers were theoretical. We now have them as keychains and even weapons grade. Quantum computing was theoretical yet here we are today with our first quantum computer:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...e-first-real-quantum-computer-by-new-research

Theoretical does not mean impossible. ST has inspired a lot of the technology we use today. Not everything invented in sci-fi becomes real but the genre has definitely inspired advances in tech and science.

Sci-fi tech based on actual theory does not always implement the theoretical tech or process in a plausible manner but it doesn't negate the possibility of the actual application. Warp drive, in as far as the technology is technically implemented in ST, may be ridiculous or not possible but the science behind warp drive is quite plausible. Sure, we may not use dilithium crystals to mitigate the flow of matter/anit-matter to power such a thing but that doesn't mean warp drive itself is an imaginary fantasy.

In SW, something as simple as the light saber is an actual impossibility:

http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=59

Something "theoretical" is quite far removed from "magic".