Star Trek 3 to be like TV series

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
Pegg's recent rants and raves on nerd culture:
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/may/19/simon-pegg-criticises-dumbing-down-of-cinema
http://simonpegg.net/2015/05/19/big-mouth-strikes-again/
Film star Simon Pegg has criticised the “dumbing down” of cinema.

The actor made his name in a string of comedy films such as Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz and is co-writing the new Star Trek movie.

But he told Radio Times magazine that society had become “infantalised” and that challenging films had been usurped in the box office by the vacuous.

Despite his reputation as a poster boy for geeks, he told Radio Times magazine: “Before Star Wars, the films that were box-office hits were The Godfather, Taxi Driver, Bonnie and Clyde and The French Connection – gritty, amoral art movies.

“Then suddenly the onus switched over to spectacle and everything changed … I don’t know if that is a good thing.”

Pegg, who played chief engineer Scotty in the recent Star Trek films, added: “Obviously I’m very much a self-confessed fan of science fiction and genre cinema but part of me looks at society as it is now and just thinks we’ve been infantilised by our own taste.

“Now we’re essentially all consuming very childish things – comic books, superheroes. Adults are watching this stuff, and taking it seriously.

“It is a kind of dumbing down, in a way, because it’s taking our focus away from real-world issues. Films used to be about challenging, emotional journeys or moral questions that might make you walk away and re-evaluate how you felt about … whatever.

“Now we’re walking out of the cinema really not thinking about anything, other than the fact that the Hulk just had a fight with a robot.”

The Mission: Impossible star said he wanted to take on more dramatic roles.

“Sometimes (I) feel like I miss grown-up things,” he said. “And I honestly thought the other day that I’m gonna retire from geekdom.

“I’ve become the poster child for that generation, and it’s not necessarily something I particularly want to be. I’d quite like to go off and do some serious acting.”

He said he had been asked to make the new Star Trek film “more inclusive”.

“They had a script for Star Trek that wasn’t really working for them. I think the studio was worried that it might have been a little bit too Star Trek-y,” he said of the original draft.

“Avengers Assemble, which is a pretty nerdy, comic-book, supposedly niche thing, made $1.5bn dollars. Star Trek: Into Darkness made half a billion, which is still brilliant.

“But it means that, according to the studio, there’s still $1bn worth of box office that don’t go and see Star Trek. And they want to know why.”

He added: “People don’t see it being a fun, brightly coloured, Saturday night entertainment like the Avengers,” adding that the solution was to “make a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it’s more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent”.

I suspect this is leading to a sort of justification/pre-apology for how Star Trek 3 turns out to be. Also this:
http://trekmovie.com/2015/05/19/pegg-talks-trek-3-says-paramount-wants-a-less-star-trek-y-film/
Disney's MCU is getting to BSG-level of annoyance with me.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I doubt it. Simon Pegg is not known for beating around the bush but is known to speak his mind. I thought he had a valid point about infantilizing.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Pegg's recent rants and raves on nerd culture:
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/may/19/simon-pegg-criticises-dumbing-down-of-cinema
http://simonpegg.net/2015/05/19/big-mouth-strikes-again/
Film star Simon Pegg has criticised the “dumbing down” of cinema.

The actor made his name in a string of comedy films such as Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz and is co-writing the new Star Trek movie.

But he told Radio Times magazine that society had become “infantalised” and that challenging films had been usurped in the box office by the vacuous.

Despite his reputation as a poster boy for geeks, he told Radio Times magazine: “Before Star Wars, the films that were box-office hits were The Godfather, Taxi Driver, Bonnie and Clyde and The French Connection – gritty, amoral art movies.

“Then suddenly the onus switched over to spectacle and everything changed … I don’t know if that is a good thing.”

Pegg, who played chief engineer Scotty in the recent Star Trek films, added: “Obviously I’m very much a self-confessed fan of science fiction and genre cinema but part of me looks at society as it is now and just thinks we’ve been infantilised by our own taste.

“Now we’re essentially all consuming very childish things – comic books, superheroes. Adults are watching this stuff, and taking it seriously.

“It is a kind of dumbing down, in a way, because it’s taking our focus away from real-world issues. Films used to be about challenging, emotional journeys or moral questions that might make you walk away and re-evaluate how you felt about … whatever.

“Now we’re walking out of the cinema really not thinking about anything, other than the fact that the Hulk just had a fight with a robot.”

The Mission: Impossible star said he wanted to take on more dramatic roles.

“Sometimes (I) feel like I miss grown-up things,” he said. “And I honestly thought the other day that I’m gonna retire from geekdom.

“I’ve become the poster child for that generation, and it’s not necessarily something I particularly want to be. I’d quite like to go off and do some serious acting.”

He said he had been asked to make the new Star Trek film “more inclusive”.

“They had a script for Star Trek that wasn’t really working for them. I think the studio was worried that it might have been a little bit too Star Trek-y,” he said of the original draft.

“Avengers Assemble, which is a pretty nerdy, comic-book, supposedly niche thing, made $1.5bn dollars. Star Trek: Into Darkness made half a billion, which is still brilliant.

“But it means that, according to the studio, there’s still $1bn worth of box office that don’t go and see Star Trek. And they want to know why.”

He added: “People don’t see it being a fun, brightly coloured, Saturday night entertainment like the Avengers,” adding that the solution was to “make a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it’s more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent”.

I suspect this is leading to a sort of justification/pre-apology for how Star Trek 3 turns out to be. Also this:
http://trekmovie.com/2015/05/19/pegg-talks-trek-3-says-paramount-wants-a-less-star-trek-y-film/
Disney's MCU is getting to BSG-level of annoyance with me.

Oh dear. The movie is doomed. From Pegg himself (from your link:http://trekmovie.com/2015/05/19/pegg-talks-trek-3-says-paramount-wants-a-less-star-trek-y-film/) :

startrek3.PNG


nonono.gif
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I suggest you read the comments section and then find the full length interview. As usual snippets cause the loss of context...
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I suggest you read the comments section and then find the full length interview. As usual snippets cause the loss of context...

:)
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
So is Pegg saying he's caving to studio pressure to make a low-brow ST film that will appeal to the idiot masses? (Cuz that's kinda what I'm hearing him say.)

Is this a warning, is this a caveat to intelligent ST fans to not expect an intellectually challenging story but rather a live-action cartoon for ST3? :daniel_new004:
 

heisenberg

Earl Grey
Good lord, wth these big budget studios there is no more middle ground for them anymore. f it doesn't make them a billion dollars, it's a failure...Who cares about these marvel comic movies anyway? Why bother trying to compete with them and ruin a better franchise? It's not even the same genre
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
So is Pegg saying he's caving to studio pressure to make a low-brow ST film that will appeal to the idiot masses? (Cuz that's kinda what I'm hearing him say.)

Is this a warning, is this a caveat to intelligent ST fans to not expect an intellectually challenging story but rather a live-action cartoon for ST3? :daniel_new004:

I'm not at all sure he's saying he is writing a low brow story. Pegg is known for bluntness and he's just relating what there is pressure on him to do.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I'm not at all sure he's saying he is writing a low brow story. Pegg is known for bluntness and he's just relating what there is pressure on him to do.

Why are you giving him credit for NOT being low brow? I look at everything he has done to date, and "low brow" or "comedic" are his comfort zones. He is not a serious person, or a serious writer (in subject matter). He is a fan of "stuff" who has had the fortunate opportunity to be on the other side of the camera. I am not seeing where you are being encouraged that Pegg will suddenly come up with something brilliant or intellectually stimulating:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0670408/


Simon Pegg is bordering on being a hipster. :) I agree he is blunt, and also a fan of Trek. But I think high brow science and complex intellectual constructs are beyond his reach.
--- merged: May 27, 2015 at 8:24 AM ---
So is Pegg saying he's caving to studio pressure to make a low-brow ST film that will appeal to the idiot masses? (Cuz that's kinda what I'm hearing him say.)

Is this a warning, is this a caveat to intelligent ST fans to not expect an intellectually challenging story but rather a live-action cartoon for ST3? :daniel_new004:

THIS.
 
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Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Which Pegg wrote. He also wrote the other films in that set (Shaun of the Dead and The World's End). All three films are not exactly what one would call low brow. The World's End is Science Fiction. And he is a Trek fan.

Plus as said earlier be careful about snippets. Pegg today debunked the notion that he was ordered to make the script less "Trek-y"....

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/ne...-play-captain-kirk-again.html#~pdUtgOTSJVtw96
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Which Pegg wrote. He also wrote the other films in that set (Shaun of the Dead and The World's End). All three films are not exactly what one would call low brow. The World's End is Science Fiction. And he is a Trek fan.

Plus as said earlier be careful about snippets. Pegg today debunked the notion that he was ordered to make the script less "Trek-y"....

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/ne...-play-captain-kirk-again.html#~pdUtgOTSJVtw96

Nothing Pegg has written qualifies as sophisticated (IMO). Im not saying he is a hack or a bad writer, its just he is not on the level of a Ronald Moore, Joss Whedon, etc. Im a very analytical person. I look at the variables, look at the known values, then theorize based on the best "educated" guess (based upon what is known). A Ronald Moore Trek 3? Sure...I could imagine what that might be like. A Quentin Tarrantino Trek 3 would be much different, no? Simon Pegg has a filmography, and none of it contains anything remotely serious or intellectually far reaching. Then there is this:

http://io9.com/simon-pegg-worries-the-love-of-science-fiction-is-makin-1705420424

Meanwhile, Pegg somewhat worryingly says that he was hired to rewrite the next Star Trekscript because the earlier version was “a little bit too Star Trek-y.” And in order to reach a much broader audience than Star Trek Into Darkness, his solution is to “make a Western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it’s more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent.”

I would be a fool to ignore the obvious. If I see a hot turkey being put on a table, and there is already a carving knife and plates, I can safely assume that at some point this turkey is going to be carved and served on those plates. I should not expect that there will be ham instead. Simon Pegg has a known filmography. He has interviews about how he wants to do Trek 3.

Why does anyone need to guess where he is coming from or not have an idea of what to expect?
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Which Pegg wrote. He also wrote the other films in that set (Shaun of the Dead and The World's End). All three films are not exactly what one would call low brow. The World's End is Science Fiction. And he is a Trek fan.

Plus as said earlier be careful about snippets. Pegg today debunked the notion that he was ordered to make the script less "Trek-y"....

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/ne...-play-captain-kirk-again.html#~pdUtgOTSJVtw96

He wasnt ordered. Fans are saying he was chosen to write the next Trek because he CANT make it Trek-y. It is beyond his abilities and intellect. If you want funny, appealing, and lighthearted, go grab Pegg.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
That poorly written piece is among those that quotes the Radio Times interview out of context. And what he said in context is correct and indeed something we've complained about on this forum, namely the dumbing down of things.

Also, read what I linked. It states he refuted the notion that he was brought in to make it less "Trek-ey". I should not have phrased it as ordered but the effect is the same.

And the notion that Simon Pegg somehow is not intelligent enough to write Trek is pretty insulting to Pegg. Just because you tend to write comedy does not mean you're writing dumb stuff.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
That poorly written piece is among those that quotes the Radio Times interview out of context. And what he said in context is correct and indeed something we've complained about on this forum, namely the dumbing down of things.

:) I would never decide something based upon only one piece of information. Simon Pegg sided with Roberto Orci when he told the fans to take a hike (he used harsher words :)). It was Pegg himself who used the phrase "F**k off" against Trek fans who hated STID. He liked Star Trek STID. He did say what he said, even if he claims he did not "mean" it the way it was understood by fans. His filmography stands with him. All that is being factored in.

Also, read what I linked. It states he refuted the notion that he was brought in to make it less "Trek-ey". I should not have phrased it as ordered but the effect is the same.

And the notion that Simon Pegg somehow is not intelligent enough to write Trek is pretty insulting to Pegg. Just because you tend to write comedy does not mean you're writing dumb stuff.

I never said he wrote "dumb stuff". :) Im saying he is not up to writing real Star Trek. He just is not on that level. He isnt a science lover who loves writing comedy, he is a comedic writer who writes drama and who would like to do Star Trek. Are you aware that Orci, while not Directing, is still involved in Trek 3?
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Um....Orci is gone. The departure was very public to boot:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/director-roberto-orci-leaves-star-trek-3-20141206

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/06/roberto-orci-direct-star-3_n_6280550.html

Justin Lin is directing. Orci's script was junked also, which is why we were talking about Pegg in the first place.

Also, saying someone is "not on that level" is pretty close to saying they are not intelligent enough. Which leads to the next question....

What is "real Star Trek"? If we're going to say someone can or cannot write it then we need to define it.
 
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shavedape

Well Known GateFan
I don't think it's an issue of Simon Pegg's "intelligence" but rather it's a question of if he's going to go with a predominant soap-fi angle or will he let a "scientific quandary" lead the plot?

Yes, Pegg has done some really great stuff in the comedy realm. SotD and Hot Fuzz are really good movies -- but they aren't based on hard science -- at all. Star Trek on the other hand has some serious science lying right at the core of the story. It's integral to the entire fictional universe the story exists in.

Now just because Pegg is a fan of the franchise that doesn't mean he has the chops to focus on the scientific part of things. Naturally we won't know for sure until we see the finished product but I can't help but be nervous when I see him defending the likes of the dreck that Orci gave us under the Star Trek banner.

Just sayin'.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
What's the point in being nervous? I'm cautiously optimistic simply because Justin Lin is better than Abrams and Pegg is so far superior to Damon Lindelof it isn't funny.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
The best of star trek is not it's faux science, it is it's social commentary, and it has been since the TOS.
You can take on all the airs and graces you want, but scifi is not the "core" of trek, and never has been. you can wax lyrical about the scifi settings, the scifi answers, the scifi gobbledygook all you want, but it is all just a setting for social commentary.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
The best of star trek is not it's faux science, it is it's social commentary, and it has been since the TOS.
You can take on all the airs and graces you want, but scifi is not the "core" of trek, and never has been. you can wax lyrical about the scifi settings, the scifi answers, the scifi gobbledygook all you want, but it is all just a setting for social commentary.

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