**SPOILER** The Rise of Skywalker **SPOILER**

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
For a few months now, people in The Fandom Menace have been releasing leaks, possible spoilers, rumors and the like. But as we come closer to the release and the fact that the movie is now in the can locks the truth in place.

3 months ago, a Reddit user by the name of JediPraxis leaked the entire film in a synopsis with bullet points. Please DO NOT READ if you don't spoilers.

SPOILERS

SPOILERS!
While this is a spoiler friendly subreddit, I'm going to flag this as a spoiler post and warn anyone that doesn't want to know what happens in the film to turn back now. If you are spoiler averse and decide to continue reading, it's your own fault from here on out. If you are pro-spoilers, please do not share details of this post with anyone that does not want to be spoiled themselves. Without any further preamble...

  • As stated in a previous leak, it's been reiterated to me that we will indeed be getting young Luke and Leia flashbacks in TROS. One in particular appears to be the opening of the movie no less. We begin the action by seeing one of, if not the final training lesson between Luke and Leia. Leia is giving up her Jedi training due to the fact that she's pregnant with a son. My source on this mentioned a fight, so I believe that we may be getting Leia and Luke in a lightsaber duel toward the beginning of the film.

  • Picking up in the current point in the timeline. Leia appears to have taken up the mantel of Jedi mentor to Rey in the wake of Luke's passing.
    • Note: This will likely coincide with the scene from the D23 First Look where Rey throws here lightsaber at a training remote and cuts down a tree.
  • Early on in the film, we catch up with Kylo's story where he is "slaughtering" people with the purpose of tracking down one of the film's McGuffins, a device known as the "wayfinder".
    • I'm told that the clip of Kylo body slamming someone into the floor of a forest bathed in red light seen in the teaser. I'm also told that this planet is called "Exogol" (don't quote me on the spelling).
  • Kylo obtains the wayfinder from "The Oracle" and finds it to contain coordinates to a point in the Unknown Regions. The wayfinder that Kylo is given once belonged to his grandfater.

  • Using the coordinates found within the wayfinder device, Kylo arrives in the Unknown Regions. Here, Kylo encounters Emperor Palpatine. How Palpatine is still alive and how he ended up in the Unknown Regions is still a mystery to me that I hope to learn more about in the next few months (Note: Daisy Ridley recently said in an interview that it's explained in the film), but my source on this tells me that this is indeed Palpatine in the flesh. Kylo and Palpatine's conversation apparently centers around ordering Kylo to find Rey and bring her to the Emperor with the goal of turning her to the dark side.
    • Note: It's not lost on me that this part of the story feels very Return of the Jedi inspired, but we'll just crack on and see how this all pans out.
  • My source specifically mentioned that Palpatine is very old and decrepit at this point, possibly on the verge of death. A little bit of Googling reveals that Palpatine is thought to have been born around 84 BBY making him in the neighborhood of 113 years old by the events of The Rise of Skywalker. His goal in luring Kylo to him and converting Rey to darkness is more or less to have Rey and Kylo inherit his "new Empire" and for them to rule it together.

  • In order to facilitate bringing about this "new Empire", Palpatine has spent his 30 years of PTO creating a fleet of "Death Star Destroyers" (Note: I don't know if this is their actual name or not. Personally, I hope not, it's bit on the nose) which appear to be exactly what they sound like. Star Destroyers with Death Star tech mounted on them, giving them the capability to destroy a planet. (Note: Apparently once this particular technology was unleashed 30 some odd years ago, that Pandora's box can't be shut again). According to my source, these star destroyers make up the "Sith Fleet" that house the new red Sith Troopers that were showcased at SDCC in July.
    • Note: I wrote this prior to the First Look being shown and the fleet has since been confirmed. It's comprised of Imperial star destroyers hiding in the Unknown Regions and we see what appears to be their planet destroying capabilities during the reel.
  • Enough about Rey and Kylo, let's get back to the rest of the Resistance. Apparently we catch up with Finn and Poe returning to the jungle planet depicted in some of the behind the scenes images shown at Celebration. The duo has been in contact with an informant from within the First Order. The mole has told Finn and Poe about Kylo coming into possession of the "wayfinder".
    • Note: It's unclear to me if anyone in the Resistance understands what the "wayfinder" is or where it leads. They just want to find it.
  • Poe and Finn tell Leia about this and she sends Rey, Chewbacca, C-3PO and the other droids to accompany them on the mission. In order to get them going on their quest, Leia puts them in contact with someone on Pasaana (The desert planet, filmed in Jordan)

  • It's at this point in the story where the Resistance team makes their way to the desert planet seen in the teaser and behind the scenes footage. It's revealed that Leia's contact is Lando Calrissian. Lando points them toward another one of our McGuffins, a "Sith artifact" that apparently turns out to be a dagger. This dagger has some sort of writing on it that 3PO can’t decipher.
    • Note: My source understands this to be a "Sith language". That description is pretty vague for me, but the key point is sound. Heroes find dagger, dagger has writing on it that 3PO can't read.
  • It’s during our heroes time on Passana that Kylo initiates a Force mind link between himself and Rey. Through their connection Kylo discovers where Rey and the Resistance crew are and leaves to pursue them. Eventually Kylo and the Knights of Ren arrive and begin to attack our heroes. One thing leads to another and the Resistance crew gets outnumbered and they are forced to make their escape on an old ship leaving the Millennium Falcon behind. Kylo recovers the Falcon and takes it back to his Star Destroyer.

  • As previously mentioned, 3PO is confronted with a challenge he is not equipped to handle. The artifact found on Passana contains a language that 3PO can’t translate without modifications. In order to modify 3POs programming, Poe brings the team to the wintery planet seen in the teaser (Kijimi per the Vanity Fair article). There C-3PO is modified to allow translation of the artifact. I'm told that the modification is done by a small alien (possibly the one pictured in Image A of my post from 6 months ago. I'm not 100% sure on that, but confident enough in who told this to me that I'm willing to put it out there) Once translatable the dagger supposedly reveals information regarding a second wayfinder, this one having belonged to Emperor Palpatine himself, leading the team to journey to the forest moon of Endor.
    • Note: My sources tell me that the scene from the First Look reel showing 3PO with red eyes connects to this event. The Red eyes are part of the "hack" that allows him to translate the "Sith language".
  • During the events leading to the modification of 3PO on the wintery planet, Kylo initiates another Force connection between he and Rey. Kylo supposedly uses this as an opportunity to begin forcing Rey down the path of darkness. He does this by antagonizing Rey. Kylo tells her that he knows about the dagger and what it was once used for. Kylo apparently tells her that this dagger was used to murder Rey’s parents. Kylo maintains that her parents are nobodies in the grand story. This angers Rey and she lashes out at Kylo and a lightsaber duel ensues. Rey is on Kijimi and Kylo is on his Star Destroyer. According to my source no flashes of any additional locations are seen during this fight (possibly in the film at all, but we'll see). Ren keeps the link alive long enough to learn Rey’s location and eventually peruses her in his Star Destroyer like before.

  • Zori Bliss is introduced sometime during their time on this planet.
    • Note: My sources told me that she has history with Poe prior to Keri Russell saying the same thing in an interview days ago. What this history may be is still a mystery to me right now.
  • Once Kylo arrives, our gang of heroes decide to sneak aboard and attempt to recover the Falcon prior to leaving. The rescue plan goes awry and the whole group gets captured by the First Order. It’s at this point that two major things happen:
  1. It’s revealed that Hux is the First Order mole that has been feeding the Resistance information and he allows the heroes to escape while Kylo is distracted by dueling with Rey in person.

  2. During this duel, Kylo adds another wrinkle to Rey’s backstory. He maintains that while her parents are nobodies, her grandparents (more specifically her grandfather) wasn’t. Kylo tells Rey that she is the granddaughter of Papatine. This explains his interest in bringing the random nobody from Jakku into the fold. The crew recovers the Falcon, Rey reconnects with them and they all flee.
  • Following her battle aboard the Star Destroyer and escape on the Falcon. Rey uses the newly gleaned information resulting from 3POs modifications and the translation of the dagger to travel to Endor. At this time, it’s a little unclear to me how Kylo gets from point A to point B, but supposedly he is waiting for Rey in Palpatine’s throne room aboard the wreckage of the second Death Star.
    • (Note: I assume he knows the location of the second wayfinder due to his newfound connection to Palpatine, but that's just speculation on my part. I think it's important to note that Kylo may have been there before considering that he had the charred helmet of Vader in TFA.)
  • Naturally, they fight. The specifics of this duel are unknown to me, but what I have been told about it is that it’s at this point when Rey begins to tap into some hatred to gain the upper hand and eventually defeats Kylo (Note: possibly destroying his lightsaber in the process, but that's more rumor than leak at the moment), leaving him for dead on the wreckage of the Death Star. Rey takes possession of Palpatine's wayfinder and leaves.

  • My sources tell me that the "Dark Rey" moment seen in the D23 footage is in fact a vision (described to me as thematically similar to Luke seeing himself as Vader in the cave on Dagobah). This apparently is a short sequence that happens right after Rey picks up Palpatine's wayfinder.

  • While lying in the wreckage of the Death Star weakened state Kylo Ren reportedly sees a vision of his father. (Note: It’s unclear to me if Han appears as a bona fide ghost or just through the magic of injury induced hallucinations, but this interaction supposedly acts as Kylo’s “come to Jesus” moment.) Han tells Kylo that it’s never too late to change and when he leaves Endor, he leaves not as Kylo Ren, but as Ben Solo.

  • This duel is a critical tipping point for Rey as well. I’m told that in the wake of her confrontation with Kylo, she takes the wayfinder and flees to Ahch-to to collect her thoughts. Her mindset is reportedly mirror Luke’s while he was there prior to and during the events of The Last Jedi. The vision of a possible dark future for herself in conjunction fact that she nearly killed Kylo scared Rey in the same way that considering killing Ben in his sleep scared Luke many years prior. She feared the path she was headed down and decides to swear off the Jedi, exiling herself on Ahch-to. Rey scuttles the ship she used to get there just like Luke once did and she caps it all off by casting Anakin's reconstructed lightsaber toward her ship. Just when it looks like the Jedi Order is going to end (again), the specter of Luke Skywalker appears to Rey, holding her discarded lightsaber and does what all good Force ghosts do; gives our hero the resolve to do what needs to be done. Finish the work Luke began over 30 years earlier and put an end to the Emperor for good. According to my source, Luke passes on Leia’s lightsaber to Rey. (Note: I don't know where it came from, where it's been all this time, or how Luke is able to give it to Rey, but what I can tell you (with only about 50% confidence at this point) is that Leia's blade is supposedly blue.) Bolstered by her conversation with Luke, Rey takes Leia's lightsaber, transmits the location of the Sith fleet to the Resistance before heading out herself.

  • On the subject of Force ghosts, Luke makes another appearance around the time of Rey and Kylo’s crises of faith. Back at the main Resistance base, Leia is on her deathbed. My source describes it to me like Yoda’s death in Return if the Jedi, nothing bad happened, it was just her time to go. Luke has come to says goodbye, but before it all ends for Leia, he has one final lesson for her...

  • From what I've been able to put together, the final act of the film is structured like this:

  • Rey leaves Ahch-to and travels to the Sith fleet in the Unknown Regions. Eventually the Resistance fleet arrives and battle ensues. Somehow, Rey finds her way to The Emperor who has been waiting for her. Palpatine confirms that what Kylo told her was true. Apparently after his defeat at DSII, Palpatine was shaken by the fact that he wasn't able to maintain his hold on Vader or seduce Luke to the darkness due to their familial bond. During the course of their conversation Palpatine makes reference to this bond between Vader and Luke and likens it to his bond with Rey hoping that whatever familial connection they have will be enough to win her over and become as strong as that of the Skywalkers. Note: What my source described next feels very reminiscent of RotJ. Rey is trapped in The Emperor’s throne room, watching two opposing fleets battle while she is helplessly gazes onward. It’s at this point that Kylo/Ben reappears. How we get to this next part is still a bit fuzzy to me, but apparently Ben and Rey join forces and begin attacking Palpatine. Leia's lightsaber comes back into play when Rey and Kylo share the Skywalker lightsabers throughout their fight. At some point the Emperor overpowers them both and supposedly kills Ben. (Note: there have been reports from other reputable leakers that Kylo kind of/sort of dies, but my source on this seemed pretty unambiguous. Personally, I think we'll just have to wait and see what we learn over the next few months.) When it looks like all Hope is lost, the ghosts of Luke and Leia show up to aid Rey. Together they overpower the Emperor and end his darkness once and for all.

  • As for what the other members of the Resistance are doing at this point, they are engaged in a space battle against Palpatine's fleet lead by General Pryde. The Resistance's goal is supposedly to take out the flagship, severing communications and making navigation out of the Unknown Regions impossible. The flagship is destroyed around the same time that the Emperor dies.

  • The last thing I was told is regarding the final sequence of the film. I don’t why, but our heroes travel to Tatooine. During these scenes, it is supposedly revealed that Rey has cannibalized Anakin/Luke's lightsaber and Leia's to make one of her own that supposedly has a yellow/gold blade. She buries the leftover pieces on the grounds of the former Lars homestead. The final shots of the Skywalker saga allegedly echo how the adventure began in ‘77, our heroes gazing at the horizon dreaming of the future as twin suns set in the distance.

Needless to say, I will NOT be going to see it opening night, or maybe not in the theater at all.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
why do you bother? we all know the film isn't going to be anything more then a "we have to finish what we started, lets just phone it in", money maker

you should change the name of the website to 'doomgate.net' "for fans of pessimism"
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
why do you bother? we all know the film isn't going to be anything more then a "we have to finish what we started, lets just phone it in", money maker

you should change the name of the website to 'doomgate.net' "for fans of pessimism"

I don't like Disney Star Wars. That's all. There is more to this site than dumb Disney Star Wars and terrible Kurtzman Star Trek. I love the Mandalorian, even though it seems to be overdoing Baby Yoda and making him the center of the show. You seem to be more willing to compromise and give a pass to this substandard crap they are putting out there and calling Star Wars and Star Trek. I am unwilling to do that. I have standards, and I am not going to lower them just to accommodate the changes being made to our beloved franchises.

To be honest, I am concentrating more on The Fandom Menace. It is a group of YouTubers including people you hate like Doomcock, Nerdrotic. Geeks and Gamers, MechaRandom42, John Talks and a bunch of others who do what we used to do on the SGU Sucks website. The difference is that it does that for all of our franchises, which have all fallen to SJW politics and agendas. We used to make fun of those people who were "squeedrones" for SGU, who thought Rush and Eli and the mission of Destiny billions of light years from earth was just hunky dory. The Fandom Menace makes fun of people who think Star Trek Discovery and dumb JJ Trek are okay. The Fandom Menace reject Star Wars from Disney because it sucks compared to actual Star Wars made by George Lucas. They can explain exactly what they don't like about it, and so can I.

The fact is that there really isn't much good stuff to say about what they have done to Star Wars or Star Trek. There are good things like the Mandalorian, Rogue One, and perhaps the upcoming Picard show. Alita is awesome, as was Joker. I am just never going to be one of those people who compromise my standards.
 
Last edited:

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
The media premiere was Tuesday, and the voice of the critics have spoken. Once again, this is the CRITICS score, certified rotten.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

upload_2019-12-18_20-11-27.png


Also:

The leaks were indeed true. The spoilers posted above are all true. The Fandom Menace has been correct the entire time.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I gather the box-office was okay but underwhelming. As to reaction to the film....dunno. I have not seen it yet. JarJar is starting behind the 8 ball on this as The Last Jedi was not just a dreadfully bad movie it did major damage to Star Wars in a storytelling sense. He will be trying to do what he can to undo the damage done by Rian Johnson. I am dubious on whether it will be enough but one can hope.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Casual fans--like the kind that go to the movies every week and see whatever is new, liked it. but chances are they have seen little and paid less attn to anything SW's they have watched before

All through this trilogy, i have been waiting to see how they end it; to see if all the silliness in the first two made a wrap up that made sense (acceptable sense) in the third

I have watched several vid's with complete spoilers on this- I will watch it whenever it comes to disney+

seems all they have done was really not end anything other then the Skywalker family line. the movie has instead given a launchpad for all the books, comics and video games that will be used to fill in all the holes and unanswered questions the movie has brought up

first, one that none of the vids i watched even talked about-so i dont know if it was covered in the movie, but, who exactly are the Sith troopers?

how have they been supported,along with the hidden fleet, for 30 rs? they cant be regular storm troopers that came there after the fall of the Empire, they would be too old

but the questions i see coming from the film-a few at least:

Why did Palpatine bother to create the Skywalker family to serve him when he had his own? This new fact-that he had his own family-nearly undermines completely the reasoning for the existence of the Skywalkers--even when they were doing good-if it were not for Palp. the family would have ended with Schmi

how exactly did Palp come back from the dead IN the same body? I mean, in canon there is incidence of dead coming back using the force to 'possess' a host or the force ghosts we know of. With the 'possession' part, Palp's could have come back into a clone of himself BUT that clone would not have been all scarred and mutilated as Palp 1 was.

with this new ability, will anyone else come back from the dead?

How did Moz get Luke's light saber?

I am sure there are more

We know there are at least 2 more sw's trilogies planned (only the TPTBs-Benioff and Weiss, for one got cancelled :) )

i a m going to guess now that one of them will be a 'backstory one' where Palpatine's family will be at least a part of the story

i am guessing the other will have Rey whether we want her or not

but this is all ok..as long as SW's "tv" shows keep up like the Mandalorian is, I'll be good
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Welp, I saw this. And while it is objectively a bad movie it did have a couple of pluses.

One is that (to my shock) I have to admit JJ Abrams tried to fashion a better film out of the wreckage left by The Last Jedi. Rey actually has to face genuine adversity and she does get her butt kicked by Kylo Ren in a duel. JJ actually tried to give her an arc, to make her into more of a rounded person. Likewise he seemed to try to make Kylo Ren more balanced as a character.

Another is that the SJW-ism and identity politics are dialed WAY back. This film (unlike The Last Jedi) did not feel like it was elevating the female characters by denigrating the male characters.

On the other hand, to call the plot illogical gibberish is to say little. I know Abrams started out behind the eight ball in trying to fix the mess The Last Jedi left but this was not the best way - a very typical JJ Abrams barrage of hyper fast pacing and little plot logic.

Also, the treatment of the Force has become absurd. The force powers are way overstated and things like being able to resurrect the dead and disable whole fleets of ships make force users incredibly OP. And this level of OP has implications - for instance the motive presented for Anakin turning to the Dark Side is now illogical - either he could just revive Padme or ask Yoda or Obi Wan or whoever to do so. It goes on from there.

So.....it is what it is.
 
Last edited:

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Casual fans--like the kind that go to the movies every week and see whatever is new, liked it. but chances are they have seen little and paid less attn to anything SW's they have watched before

All through this trilogy, i have been waiting to see how they end it; to see if all the silliness in the first two made a wrap up that made sense (acceptable sense) in the third

I have watched several vid's with complete spoilers on this- I will watch it whenever it comes to disney+

seems all they have done was really not end anything other then the Skywalker family line. the movie has instead given a launchpad for all the books, comics and video games that will be used to fill in all the holes and unanswered questions the movie has brought up

first, one that none of the vids i watched even talked about-so i dont know if it was covered in the movie, but, who exactly are the Sith troopers?

how have they been supported,along with the hidden fleet, for 30 rs? they cant be regular storm troopers that came there after the fall of the Empire, they would be too old

but the questions i see coming from the film-a few at least:

Why did Palpatine bother to create the Skywalker family to serve him when he had his own? This new fact-that he had his own family-nearly undermines completely the reasoning for the existence of the Skywalkers--even when they were doing good-if it were not for Palp. the family would have ended with Schmi

how exactly did Palp come back from the dead IN the same body? I mean, in canon there is incidence of dead coming back using the force to 'possess' a host or the force ghosts we know of. With the 'possession' part, Palp's could have come back into a clone of himself BUT that clone would not have been all scarred and mutilated as Palp 1 was.

with this new ability, will anyone else come back from the dead?

How did Moz get Luke's light saber?

I am sure there are more

We know there are at least 2 more sw's trilogies planned (only the TPTBs-Benioff and Weiss, for one got cancelled :) )

i a m going to guess now that one of them will be a 'backstory one' where Palpatine's family will be at least a part of the story

i am guessing the other will have Rey whether we want her or not

but this is all ok..as long as SW's "tv" shows keep up like the Mandalorian is, I'll be good
Welp, I saw this. And while it is objectively a bad movie it did have a couple of pluses.

One is that (to my shock) I have to admit JJ Abrams tried to fashion a better film out of the wreckage left by The Last Jedi. Rey actually has to face genuine adversity and she does get her butt kicked by Kylo Ren in a duel. JJ actually tried to give her an arc, to make her into more of a rounded person. Likewise he seemed to try to make Kylo Ren more balanced as a character.

Another is that the SJW-ism and identity politics are dialed WAY back. This film (unlike The Last Jedi) did not feel like it was elevating the female characters by denigrating the male characters.

On the other hand, to call the plot illogical gibberish is to say little. I know Abrams started out behind the eight ball in trying to fix the mess The Last Jedi left but this was not the best way - a very typical JJ Abrams barrage of hyper fast pacing and little plot logic.

Also, the treatment of the Force has become absurd. The force powers are way overstated and things like being able to resurrect the dead and disable whole fleets of ships make force users incredibly OP. And this level of OP has implications - for instance the motive presented for Anakin turning to the Dark Side is now illogical - either he could just revive Padme or ask Yoda or Obi Wan or whoever to do so. It goes on from there.

So.....it is what it is.

Okay, so you both have seen this. Now, I can tell you that the Twitterverse has gone deepl into the nooks and crannies and pointed out all of the macguffins and plot holes and fatally bent rules of the Force implied in this movie (and also episode 8 of the Mandalorian). Force healing? We see Rey heal the worm, then Kylo, and then Kylo "gives his life force" to revive Rey from death. The Mandalorian Episode 8 shows us Baby Yoda healing a bounty hunter in the same way. This is being written into the movie and TV canon, and it damages things in a HUGE way.

  1. Why didn't Anakin heal Shmi when he found her in the Sand People camp?
  2. Why didn't Obi-Wan heal Qui-Jon?
  3. Why didn't Obi-Wan heal Padme after she gave birth?
That is just the force healing thing. There is the question about the Snoke clones, the original lack of any notion of bringing back Palpatine. The absurd claim by Rey that she is now Rey Skywalker, so many things....
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
You can add more...

Why didn't Obi Wan just teleport Qui Gonn a new lightsaber when he got damaged?
Why didn't Luke heal his father at the end of Return of the Jedi?

The problem with Force Healing like this (where it includes raising the dead) is it removes consequences from decisions.

It's like I said - I will give JJ points for trying to fix the mess The Last Jedi caused. And he did try. But his methods created their own issues.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
fatally bent rules of the Force

so first,, i REFUSE TO BE PUSHED into the 'defend this' corner again when i have stated countless times i am not a fan of these movies

but... what "rules"? there are no rules.. no gospels, no force users manual

force healing? why didn't others use it?

this is easy, not all force users can use the same powers or rather, access all parts of the force

and with Anakin not being able to use it? again, easy. 1--the force 'knows' he is a creation of evil. even before he turned he is a creation of Palpatine and his 'force impregnation' of Schmi. It follows with other restrictions of the Force on those who are evil---like not being able to come back as a force ghost. Anakin was able since he redeemed himself and ultimately proved to the Force that no matter the condition of his creation, he has ultimately rejected the purpose designed for him by Palpatine

Karga was healed by little green unnamed species character because he was seen by L.G.U.S.Ch has having turned from ill intent to helping . And, LGUSch is a member of a race we already know is one of very few species that are innately very powerful in the force even without training

i think that force healing has only been used on people with a purpose..Schmi had no more purpose to the Force or to the story and if Luke had force healing power , his bringing back Anakin 'the White' would have changed the story entirely

as for the clone thing, well there is a bit of cloning used in canon already,even beyond the movies, but, and NOT having seen the movie, it seems as if TPTBs just pulled more stuff from Legends (cloning was a major plot factor in The Force Awakens video game--the once was but no longer is canon of it--which just re-enforces my belief that nearly everything they put into Legends is ALL up for grabs for future use in tv/films. i mean why write it originally when you can just scroll through the archives of Legends and 'wash,rinse, apply'?)

this movie is very low on my list of SW's things to do..we got new season of Clone Wars coming, the Obi Wan series, the 'ROGUE 1 pre quel series--any and all of this is-site unseen-- far more appealing to me then this silly movie
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
But his methods created their own issues.

those issues are/will be launching pads for all manner of tie in' explain this' books, comics and games as well as any new movies featuring Rey
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
to re-iterate

the whole Rey is a Palapatine just serves to completely wipe out anything done by the Skywalkers

its like when JJ blew up Vulcan... JJ is fucking Shiva to established story line

the ONLY reason Palpatine created Anakin was to serve his purposes and to further the plans of Palpatine's dead (?) sith master, Darth Plagueis to restore the Sith to their rightful place of leadership

So, if Palpatine had his own biological family, who would be far easier to turn to evil as they would be genetically (per SW's biology) inclined to do so, why bother with Sith voodoo to impregnate Schmi?

I want an answer JJ! then you can go and assume an ALIAS and get LOST with FELICITY on your island on the FRINGEs of humanity and far far away from our stories
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I agree making Rey a Palpatine causes plot problems - so does even having Palpatine still alive (and especially in his original body) in the first place. JJ could have instead of Palpatine used Darth Plagueis in the same role and not caused the plot issues.

This is typical for him - the "mystery box" school of writing he likes so much. The problem is for mystery box writing to work the writer DOES need to know in advance exactly what is in the box and have a logical storyline built out from it. JJ never does - this is how he ruined his own show Alias after an impressive start.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Palpatine still alive (and especially in his original body) in the first place. JJ could have instead of Palpatine used Darth Plagueis

yes, especially since Plagueis is already in on screen canon (mentioned)

at the least, Palpatine should have been a force (sith) possessed clone of himself. having him back in the same body WITH THE SAME DAMAGES is just <<beyond>>

now how much better it could have been if Darth Plagueis was Palpatine all along

and yeah, all of the reasons for Palpatine creating the Skywalkers (which many ppl-definitely not the people who "love" this movie-dont even know is canon) are meaningless in turn ,making the struggle of Anakin to turn against Palpatine despite the nature of his creation-also meaningless

and the life of Luke- the farmboy i love to hate--and Leia, also useless

actually, one could say that with using the 'world between worlds' and the sith version of it, that Palpatine knew exactly how Anakin and his offspring were going to act before they were even born

this would have been in keeping with his mo of causing the clone wars and playing one side against the other to his advantage. he first needed to have the empire, then he needed the empire destroyed-along with all of its baggage and bureaucracy and criminal gang attachments,so he could have a smaller empire of true believers--which i am guessing is what his fleet of red stormtroopers was supposed to be?

it is just a massive shitshow and this experience should hopefully tell disney to stick with tv format or, if they must make movies, make them stand alones like ROGUE ONE
 

SciphonicStranger

Objects may be closer than they appear
I watched Rise of Skywalker for free a few weeks ago and I agree it had a lot of plot problems. It was also way too long. I've decided to accept it as closure on the franchise and I think I will just move on from Star Wars. The new characters just don't stand up and won't stand up on their own.

For me, the franchise peaked with the original Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
a couple of nights ago i couldn't sleep-at all, so, out of total boredom, i watched ep 9 on disney+

couple points

- it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be, but certainly wasn't good either. It was like I was watching some intellectually cheap version of SW's that relied heavy on the fantastical-even for SW's!- vs movies like Rogue 1 and even SOLO as well as The Mandalorian and even REBELS where the storylines were more about every day ppl, mundane things like criminals, soldiers, smugglers-all fairly everyday ppl just making it through a galaxy at war.

but the characters and story of EP 9 was just to heavy into magic--not even Jedi/Sith Force "magic" really, just "magic". and it was focused too much on the silly and the ever present one liners between the silly and ever present useless characters like Finn and Poe

almost as disconnected from the main line of SW's as a episode of LEGO SW's is

with stuff like the "they fly now? they fly now? they fly now!" over the StormTroopers with jet packs when jet /jump packs have been in canon for a very long time, not to mention a military mastermind like Poe should know about them as should former stormtrooper Finn

i can even deal with the Sith fleet and army on Exogol. In canon there is backstory for how Imperial remnants both retreated to unknown space and how before the battle of Yavin, Palpatine had sent ships into the unk regions to establish bases and look for exogol and other Sith places. all of the troops we see could easily be the offspring of Imperial troops and their families sent to colonize the place. Obviously Exogol or somewhere nearby, has a environment suitable for life and for building weapons and ships

the First Order was barely seen in this film. they have a massive fleet throughout the galaxy and their fate was not properly addressed other then Poe or some other jackass character sending a message for ppl to rise up and take them out... As if the galaxy were capable of this, why didn't they do it before now? Duhhhhh!!!


the only Force use issue I had a thing about was the 'telepresence' conversations and the force transportation of objects. Sure, maybe TPTB's wanted to say that this was only possible between Rey and Kylo because of their being a Force dyad, but TPTBs didn't say that though

----------------------------------------------------------------
now my main thing

Palpatine and his arena full of goons

to start, in current entertainment there is a tact I have noticed in several shows I watch and I am sure it is in others as well

very specific, it involves characters using either the right spell or the right found McGuffin to be able to enter Hell --or Hell's hallway-- at will. this happens in SUPERNATURAL and VAN HELSING

Now with Palpatine and there still being no explanation as to how he is alive, I dont think he is alive. I think that Exogol is a type of Sith Hell (or HEAVEN)

i think the Palpatine we see he nothing more then a projection of his Sith soul and the Sith acolytes in the arena, being other Sith souls--since Sith can't become Force ghosts, maybe this is all they can become post physical life?

So we have both Kylo and Rey using a McGuffin , that Sith nav crystal thing. And the approach to Exogol in space as well as on the ground, are both hellish in nature and appearance. The entry into the "arena" is also similar to what is seen in the shows i mentioned above. here it was by going under some sort of Sith Temple--the arena type structure on the inside

i think the only real things there are the temple, the tanks to grow Snoke clones and some techs to operate them and whatever other tech/sith magic needed to maintain the illusions to visitors

When she and Kylo destroy these Sith projections, they vanish/disintegrate, there are no bodies we see for palpatine or any of his acolytes

and then, on leaving, the hellish sky of exogol and the space around it are magically cleared of all of those distortions and space anomalies.. Hell has been thrown open and the light shines upon it

so yeah, there is no explanation for how Palpatine survived because he didn't. his soul manifests as he looked -and then some- at his death. It is capable of no other form (like Sauron in Lord of the Rings, he can only manifest as his worst incarnation) just as the acolytes and their souls have no clear form or face, but dark shadows in a humanoid form
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
And, with that....

DISNEY please stop making Star Wars Films and instead devote the time, money and talent into continuing to make great SW's tv
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Yah.

Like I said when I saw this thing it is objectively a bad movie but I do give JJ some respect for trying to fix the mess The Last Jedi made. He actually made Rey into a more rounded person by having her make mistakes and face adversity. He also rounded Kylo Ren better and the SJW crap was pretty much expunged. Also they did okay in sending off Carrie Fisher.

With that said, the story was incoherent to put it mildly. Also the pacing was all over the place and both the return of Palpatine and the Force powers were high order loony.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
the movie should have been set around palpatine and his original plan for when he basically created the skywalker family, as well as his Sith operations. Rey and the others could have been the "heroes" in this still ,but the focus they were given was too much and badly done
 
Top