should jury duty be compulsory?

[Gatefan1976]

I so don't want to know what a "Spoon duel" is.

yeah sure.............

Look, let's just both agree that next time we find ourselves on a jury we will vote to fry the bastard. Better to be safe than sorry, eh wot? :encouragement:

That feels........ RIGHT.

 

[heisenberg]

When the vote is compulsory, then the outcome of it is truly representative of the will of the people. But that vote needs to be protected in the most secure of ways, like they protect money. The official census should correlate with the voting numbers too. I think that it should not be a choice but should be mandated like vaccinations, needing a license to drive and being able to use and live within the United States infrastructure as a citizen under the Constitution. Voting is the quintessential defining element of any democracy.

I beg to differ. You know how gullible people are? Here are the problem with compulsory voting. Since it's anonymous, you can do what we call a donkey vote or give a blank page and trust me, a lot of people do this by giving a blank page. Even Mark latham who was one of the former opposition leader, gave a blank vote.




On the issue of voting all together - People also tend to believe everything they read without thinking it logically through. Whilst, yes there is some truth in mainstream media, their idea is to fuel people's prejudices. Australia is a classic example of this very occurring.

Our last election we elected a conservative party because of how much the Murdoch's empire had influence over the people and look where that's taking us? They are thinking of really screwing young people like myself by deregulation university fees(meaning we pay 60% more), force people to do unpaid volunteer work(which doesn't for 6 months and then get access to funds that are well below minimum wage which means more people on the street and our crime rate going up because people don't have money to spend. Crappier/more expensive broadband, no renewal energy target. We are however, more concerned about stopping the boats(basically treating refugees as if they were a piece of garbage). ass kissing of the US by spending 48 billion dollars on the new crappy fighter jets(the F35) that have proven to be rubbish, unsafe to use, but hey it's okay to spend that but cut money on csiro funding and aboriginal funding, oppose gay/same sex marriages (when this should be a right to allow gay marriages) but okay to give 210 million dollars tax free money to the Australian Christian Lobby.

Fortunately, a lot of these measures are currently blocked in the senate, but they'll probably get passed soon if they keep trying.

Do you now see how it's not always a good thing to force people to do stuff like this and how easy it is to influence people on votes? I have done voting 3 times now

 

[Gatefan1976]

I beg to differ. You know how gullible people are? Here are the problem with compulsory voting. Since it's anonymous, you can do what we call a donkey vote or give a blank page and trust me, a lot of people do this by giving a blank page. Even Mark latham who was one of the former opposition leader, gave a blank vote.

You know what?
I would rather 10% donkey and non votes (as supported by your link) than 50% non votes as you see in the US.

On the issue of voting all together - People also tend to believe everything they read without thinking it logically through. Whilst, yes there is some truth in mainstream media, their idea is to fuel people's prejudices. Australia is a classic example of this very occurring.

It's everywhere, and it's not just Murdoch.

Our last election we elected a conservative party because of how much the Murdoch's empire had influence over the people and look where that's taking us?

Bullshit.
We elected a conservative party because they ran a better fear campaign, and people were sick to death of the constant infighting in the Labour party and there was little general confidence in them.

They are thinking of really screwing young people like myself by deregulation university fees(meaning we pay 60% more), force people to do unpaid volunteer work(which doesn't for 6 months and then get access to funds that are well below minimum wage which means more people on the street and our crime rate going up because people don't have money to spend. Crappier/more expensive broadband, no renewal energy target. We are however, more concerned about stopping the boats(basically treating refugees as if they were a piece of garbage). ass kissing of the US by spending 48 billion dollars on the new crappy fighter jets(the F35) that have proven to be rubbish, unsafe to use, but hey it's okay to spend that but cut money on csiro funding and aboriginal funding, oppose gay/same sex marriages (when this should be a right to allow gay marriages) but okay to give 210 million dollars tax free money to the Australian Christian Lobby.


Fortunately, a lot of these measures are currently blocked in the senate, but they'll probably get passed soon if they keep trying.

No, they will pass if people STOP VOTING and venting their rage with that crap.

Do you now see how it's not always a good thing to force people to do stuff like this and how easy it is to influence people on votes? I have done voting 3 times now

No, I don't.
Any vote can be influenced, I would prefer it goes though the filter of individuals, no matter how ill informed, than just have the 30 odd percent who have vested (monetary) interest in the outcome making the decisions.

 

[Overmind One]

I beg to differ. You know how gullible people are? Here are the problem with compulsory voting. Since it's anonymous, you can do what we call a donkey vote or give a blank page and trust me, a lot of people do this by giving a blank page. Even Mark latham who was one of the former opposition leader, gave a blank vote.

I cannot fathom why anyone would forfeit their highest privilege in a democratic society which is the vote. But that some do is not an issue, since such behavior usually is part of fringe elements and not the mainstream of any society. There will always be such fringe elements in any society. But the Wiki you posted defined them pretty well, nonetheless:

"Donkey votes are typically cast by uninterested voters, protesting voters or voters ignorant about the voting system. As voting is compulsory in Australia, "donkey votes" are a measure of apathy and ignorance."

Sounds about right to me.

On the issue of voting all together - People also tend to believe everything they read without thinking it logically through. Whilst, yes there is some truth in mainstream media, their idea is to fuel people's prejudices. Australia is a classic example of this very occurring.

I dont think that is necessarily true in the United States. For decades, the ultra right conservatives have had enough support and represented enough of the demographic to get themselves into the White House, control Congress and the Senate and most of the Supreme Court. They represent the majority of all mega-corporate leadership in the US. They own the media. But the citizens of the US have swayed decidedly to the left, making the old "moderate" the new "right". The old right has been put to bed...permanently. The power to elect a President has been forever stripped from the far right. Whatever the case, making the vote compulsory in the United States would solve a lot of problems created by lobbyists and gerrymandering.

Our last election we elected a conservative party because of how much the Murdoch's empire had influence over the people and look where that's taking us? They are thinking of really screwing young people like myself by deregulation university fees(meaning we pay 60% more), force people to do unpaid volunteer work(which doesn't for 6 months and then get access to funds that are well below minimum wage which means more people on the street and our crime rate going up because people don't have money to spend. Crappier/more expensive broadband, no renewal energy target. We are however, more concerned about stopping the boats(basically treating refugees as if they were a piece of garbage). ass kissing of the US by spending 48 billion dollars on the new crappy fighter jets(the F35) that have proven to be rubbish, unsafe to use, but hey it's okay to spend that but cut money on csiro funding and aboriginal funding, oppose gay/same sex marriages (when this should be a right to allow gay marriages) but okay to give 210 million dollars tax free money to the Australian Christian Lobby.

Perhaps all those donkey votes are the reason not enough votes are counted towards those who could change harmful national policies?

Fortunately, a lot of these measures are currently blocked in the senate, but they'll probably get passed soon if they keep trying.Do you now see how it's not always a good thing to force people to do stuff like this and how easy it is to influence people on votes? I have done voting 3 times now

No, I still think voting in a democracy should be compulsory when one becomes voting age. I think that it could be done electronically though. I think our Electoral College should be dissolved in favor of a popular vote system. But in every scenario, I would rather the vote be compulsory.

 

[Illiterati]

Watch this:

 

[Overmind One]

Watch this:

OMG, my head is spinning after that! But very informative stuff in that video!

 

[Illiterati]

OMG, my head is spinning after that! But very informative stuff in that video!

So, if you're desperate to avoid jury duty, this video would definitely put you in the pass category.

 

[Gatefan1976]

So, if you're desperate to avoid jury duty, this video would definitely put you in the pass category.

Not entirely.
If you had enough people willing to go for nullification, or trying to get out of J.D. they may run out of alternates and be forced to empanel you anyway.

Honestly though, there are very few reasons why you should want to dodge J.D. As I said before, it's part of the "social contract" of a democratic system.

 

[Illiterati]

Not entirely.
If you had enough people willing to go for nullification, or trying to get out of J.D. they may run out of alternates and be forced to empanel you anyway.

Honestly though, there are very few reasons why you should want to dodge J.D. As I said before, it's part of the "social contract" of a democratic system.

My last jury duty experience involved hearing and deciding on the case of a 10 month old little boy who was murdered by his caregiver. With pictures of said dead little boy in full color with added autopsy photos.

Never again.

 

[Gatefan1976]

My last jury duty experience involved hearing and deciding on the case of a 10 month old little boy who was murdered by his caregiver. With pictures of said dead little boy in full color with added autopsy photos.

Never again.

I don't know about the US, but here the courts offer jury support for difficult cases such as that. we also have immunity to Jury Duty for 3 years after any service is fulfilled.
If I were to change anything about Jury Duty, it would be the length of time of immunity to service depending on the crime.

 

[Illiterati]

I don't know about the US, but here the courts offer jury support for difficult cases such as that. we also have immunity to Jury Duty for 3 years after any service is fulfilled.
If I were to change anything about Jury Duty, it would be the length of time of immunity to service depending on the crime.

1. They're not going to pony over money for something like that and
2. You're only exempt for a year and then they can tap you all over again.

 

[Gatefan1976]

1. They're not going to pony over money for something like that and
2. You're only exempt for a year and then they can tap you all over again.

Then I can understand your reticence, I don't understand Heisen's.

 

[Illiterati]

Then I can understand your reticence, I don't understand Heisen's.

I can see having to have jury duty at least once in your life, but yes, I will be taking advantage of the Jury Nullification information for subsequent Jury Duty assignments.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I can see having to have jury duty at least once in your life, but yes, I will be taking advantage of the Jury Nullification information for subsequent Jury Duty assignments.

Is this new information for you?

 

[shavedape]

1. They're not going to pony over money for something like that and
2. You're only exempt for a year and then they can tap you all over again.

Luckily in my state there is a 4 year exemption after serving on a jury. The last case I sat on was a bizarre experience. A guy was on trial for criminal battery of one of his teenage girlfriends. He beat her so bad she lost her baby. She ended up testifying but was not happy about it because, according to her, they were in love. I can still see this girl's smiling face as she said -- after testifying about getting beat up by this thug -- "We're going to get married! "

It was one of the creepiest things I've ever seen in my life and it solidified the notion that women's empowerment was regressing, not progressing. I see it everyday now, low self-esteem running rampant among young women. Just look at the shit stains young women attach themselves to nowadays. It's shocking. I don't know why parents have dropped the ball when it comes to teaching girls to value themselves. It's just plain sad.

Oh yeah -- we found the thug guilty. Of course the girl cried when she heard the verdict. As for me, I couldn't wait to get home and take a shower.

 

[Illiterati]

I am currently helping a friend celebrate his 30th birthday, so my opinions are currently questionable. Third glass of vodka and soda.

 

[Illiterati]

Luckily in my state there is a 4 year exemption after serving on a jury. The last case I sat on was a bizarre experience. A guy was on trial for criminal battery of one of his teenage girlfriends. He beat her so bad she lost her baby. She ended up testifying but was not happy about it because, according to her, they were in love. I can still see this girl's smiling face as she said -- after testifying about getting beat up by this thug -- "We're going to get married! "

It was one of the creepiest things I've ever seen in my life and it solidified the notion that women's empowerment was regressing, not progressing. I see it everyday now, low self-esteem running rampant among young women. Just look at the shit stains young women attach themselves to nowadays. It's shocking. I don't know why parents have dropped the ball when it comes to teaching girls to value themselves. It's just plain sad.

Oh yeah -- we found the thug guilty. Of course the girl cried when she heard the verdict. As for me, I couldn't wait to get home and take a shower.

Sort of like that idiot woman who ended up marrying Ray Rice after he used her as a punching bag and Pachinko ball in the elevator. Makes me ill.

 

[YJ02]

how about professionally

I have been called up for a second time for jury duty service, and I personally think it's a waste of 7-8 hours I won't ever get back. Infact, most cases will last between 7-10 business days and I have to bust my ass everyday there and seeing what ever horrible shit or what crime some moron has committed.

For living a free society, I hate being forced to do things like this. Many people don't share the same opinion about jury duty, but I think forcing people to stuff like this goes against what democracy stands for.

I have the same opinion about voting too. Just like everything in life, it should be a choice and shouldn't be forced towards everyone, but they don't want to change the legislation to make jury duty/voting voluntary. Not just here but there in the US too. I know voting is voluntary there in the us, but it's not here. If you don't attend without a valid excuse, you are either thrown in jail and/or given a massive fine/held in contempt.

No politician will ever think about making it voluntary here. Pity really.

Why not professionally trained jurors?

Plenty of ppl out there with not a lot to do for whatever reason--screen out the drug addicts, felons and other undesirables and train ppl at the state or county level
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bolded--just like the draft--no free nation should ever force its ppl to serve in the military to defend "freedom" when they have been forced to serve

but I am crazy like that, with personal freedoms and all. I also think you should be able to "opt out" of every public "service"--and then not have to pay the taxes that spt them

but then don't think you can call 911 in an emergency or contact any elected or appointed official for assistance with your issues

 

[YJ02]

Believe it or not that's the intent of the American legal system, "innocent until proven guilty" and "jury of one's peers". It developed as a response to the monarchical beast that we rightfully shrugged off (and which you folks still bow down to, go figure) back in the late 1700's.

Are our respective legal systems perfect? No, of course not, but neither are they kangaroo courts like one gets in North Korea. And having jury pools culled from the everyday masses is how we try to make the legal process objective (or at least get close to objectivity).

in england--not sure about "commonwealth" nations (gf do you guys get to share in the common-wealth of great britian?) instead of reading a court case as "the people vs...." its "the crown vs...". As if you did something to personally offend her Majesticness

How old school conservative...

 

[Rac80]

you guys need to sit in rooms counselling pregnant teenage girls with bruises from their "Romeo"s and try to explain to them that is NOT how a man treats the woman he loves. You will hear Rihanna's name mentioned - hell even Nigella Lawson. We are socialisng our girls to expect shitty treatment from the men in their lives. How you ask - #1 cause- missing fathers in the home! They don't have a father who treats them well or treats their mothers well so they look to pop culture to tell them how it should be done. This "situation" with Ray Rice isn't new- the NFL has had spousal abuse problems for DECADES!


"Spousal abuse", "domestic violence" - let's call it what it really is - ASSAULT! if these guys beat up other MEN the way they do the women they supposedly "love", they'd be doing jail time! We have Mike Tyson still out there making a living on TV (Convicted RAPIST), OJ is finally in jail (But not for murdering his ex-wife), and Roman Polanski is lionized in Europe because everyone ignores his rape of a 13 year old girl. (Pedophile). Don't get me started on this issue- there is so much injustice towards women who are abused- most don't understand the psychological damage that was done long before the man actually raised his hand to hit her- so can't understand why she stays. He's got her trained to think she "deserves" this treatment - and at times her family and so-called friends will even support the batterer. ESPECIALLY when there is money involved. I don't blame the woman - I blame those around her who didn't help her see that she does not deserve this treatment.


Full - disclosure: I must admit this topic is very close to my heart: my sweet elder sister was an abused wife. She had been made a family scapegoat by our other sister and mother so she was the perfect "victim" for her husband. He then moved her far away from the family (he was in the military and they moved to washington state, then alaska and then texas.) he also tried (and I do say TRIED) isolating her from her family. there is a damn good reason he HATES me - I REFUSED to let him isolate me from my big sister. I spend hundreds of dollars back in the day calling her and making sure I spoke to her every three or four days. he'd complain to my mother about it (I was still in high school) but as long as I was willing to pay for the calls my dad didn't care who I called! I went off to college (Utah ) and was able to visit my siter a few times- I had a tendency of "dropping in" so the ex-asshole (he's still an asshole - just not ours any longer) had to be careful - he knew if I saw a bruise on my sis I would have dragged her ass to a police station. The military at the time was no help (which is why in the late 90's there was a huge payout to ex military wives who had tried to get help from the military). My sister got strong, left the jerk, and is happily remarried to a very nice man. It took many years of therapy before she could trust a man again! I will admit that the ex-asshole knows that if ANYTHING happens to my sister- if a car hits her accidently etc... I will be calling the local police and sharing with them his history of abuse! My eldest nephew thinks it's a riot that his dad is scared of me! Smart man....I am married to a chemist after all - he knows what chemicals can dissolve bodies fast!

My heart breaks for these women - we, as a society, do them a terrible disservice when we give the violence they experience euphemisms like "spousal abuse" and "domestic violence"-- those words sound nicer than "aggravated assault", "attempted murder", "assault and battery" - et cetera. So ray rice, IMHO is guilty of "aggravated assault" not "domestic violence".