Roberto Orci out as “Trek 3” director

[Joelist]

Hang on. FF is fictional superhero-style action. It's not meant to resemble anything realistic. Its mockery of physics is quite intentional.

Exactly. Lin made FF that way intentionally. The physics come from the Road Runner / Wile E Coyote school of science and they have always been up front about that. The question is more "Does Lin direct the movies well for what they are intended to be?" and that answer is yes.

Which brings us back to waiting on a screenwriter - that is the next big thing and where we REALLY need someone with some Science Fiction cred.

 

[Overmind One]

Exactly. Lin made FF that way intentionally. The physics come from the Road Runner / Wile E Coyote school of science and they have always been up front about that. The question is more "Does Lin direct the movies well for what they are intended to be?" and that answer is yes.

Which brings us back to waiting on a screenwriter - that is the next big thing and where we REALLY need someone with some Science Fiction cred.

I think the newer dumber audiences no longer find complex thinking appealing. Real science is now dismissed as "technobabble".

 

[Bluce Ree]

I think the newer dumber audiences no longer find complex thinking appealing. Real science is now dismissed as "technobabble".

Yeah, what they seem to want is the pew-pew without so much techno babble.

 

[shavedape]

Yeah, what they seem to want is the pew-pew without so much techno babble.

And don't forget adorable sidekicks. Gosh, these movies just aren't the same without a little person inside a rubber suit doing wacky things, don't you agree?

 

[Overmind One]

And don't forget adorable sidekicks. Gosh, these movies just aren't the same without a little person inside a rubber suit doing wacky things, don't you agree?

THIS. The only legitimate one is Yoda. When I first saw him in Star Wars, he was playing the role of a harmless, simpleminded little green troll who wanted Luke's flashlight. When he dropped that act and showed his wisdom, he suddenly became the coolest little sidekick to ever be created. I would say that Rocket from GoTG will snatch that title from this point forward Mini Me held it for a time...

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yoda is NO-ONES "sidekick"

 

[Overmind One]

Yoda is NO-ONES "sidekick"

Quite true...please forgive me.

 

[Gatefan1976]

NO!!!
I want to derail the thread about how much of a "muppet-ist" you are!!

 

[Joelist]

THIS. The only legitimate one is Yoda. When I first saw him in Star Wars, he was playing the role of a harmless, simpleminded little green troll who wanted Luke's flashlight. When he dropped that act and showed his wisdom, he suddenly became the coolest little sidekick to ever be created. I would say that Rocket from GoTG will snatch that title from this point forward Mini Me held it for a time...

Be careful....Rocket might shoot you for calling him a sidekick. And if you say that to Drax he will inform you that he is not a sidekick - he kicks forward and backward....

 

[Joelist]

As to Yoda, we need to qualify that a bit. Yoda in the OT is an outstanding character. Yoda in the prequels is pretty dumb and only uses the Force to throw rocks.

 

[Overmind One]

As to Yoda, we need to qualify that a bit. Yoda in the OT is an outstanding character. Yoda in the prequels is pretty dumb and only uses the Force to throw rocks.

Perhaps, but he can kick some ass and use his light saber in the prequels.

 

[Joelist]

Giving him a tiny lightsaber in the prequels was a horrible decision. It basically invalidated everything Yoda said in The Empire Strikes Back about the Force (for example when he taught Luke "size matters not"). And it showed when the SFX crew had to have him bouncing off walls like a grasshopper to even try to get at his opponent (without success). His lack of physical stature was a HUGE problem in the lightsaber scenarios.

And that was just against human sized opponents. Picture a lightsaber Force aware opponent say, twice human size. Yoda gets squashed like a bug.

Where Yoda was brilliant in the OT was his immense wisdom and being so advanced in the Force that he needed no weapon. And note that in the OT the Emperor also needed no lightsaber. But Lucas the dipstick gave him one in the prequels. Giving these characters lightsabers contradicts their whole persona - especially in the case of Yoda. In his case it demeans his character.

 

[Overmind One]

Giving him a tiny lightsaber in the prequels was a horrible decision. It basically invalidated everything Yoda said in The Empire Strikes Back about the Force (for example when he taught Luke "size matters not"). And it showed when the SFX crew had to have him bouncing off walls like a grasshopper to even try to get at his opponent (without success). His lack of physical stature was a HUGE problem in the lightsaber scenarios.

And that was just against human sized opponents. Picture a lightsaber Force aware opponent say, twice human size. Yoda gets squashed like a bug.

Where Yoda was brilliant in the OT was his immense wisdom and being so advanced in the Force that he needed no weapon. And note that in the OT the Emperor also needed no lightsaber. But Lucas the dipstick gave him one in the prequels. Giving these characters lightsabers contradicts their whole persona - especially in the case of Yoda. In his case it demeans his character.

To be honest, I liked the CGI Yoda better than the puppet. A lot better. I am not a fan of puppets. But the rest of the prequels and the extreme overuse of CGI was over the top to me. I never thought of Yoda as a real Jedi in the original trilogy, just more of a wise sage...almost like a little wizard.

 

[Joelist]

I despised the debased Yoda of the prequels - not because he was CGI but because they flushed all his wisdom down the toilet. Yoda in the OT was THE Jedi Master because he was strong in the force and supremely wise in its ways. Prequel Yoda was dumb as a brick and they tried to make him into an action figure.

 

[Overmind One]

I despised the debased Yoda of the prequels - not because he was CGI but because they flushed all his wisdom down the toilet. Yoda in the OT was THE Jedi Master because he was strong in the force and supremely wise in its ways. Prequel Yoda was dumb as a brick and they tried to make him into an action figure.

I can understand that viewpoint. I hated the prequels too, but there were things in them I liked. Yoda was one of them, because he seemed more like a living being. In the OT, he could never make me believe he was anything other than a muppet. Sorta like on Farscape, none of the muppets in the show were convincing as living beings to me. Puppets have limited movements and they must be presented only partially visible because they are puppets being controlled offscreen. CGI eliminated that but in the Prequels it was taken to the extreme. The entire battle scene between the Gungans and the Trade Federation was CGI. They might as well have just snipped in some Clone Wars footage or had Roger Rabbit in the battle. I needed to see Yoda using his light saber and fighting in order to think of him as a real Jedi. Strong in the Force and Wise are only two of the strong points of being a Jedi. Fighting with the light saber is the third (and most impressive) of the Force skills.

 

[Joelist]

Eh.

To a lot of Star Wars fans (not just me) the prequels were loathed not just because of the overuse of CGI but also the violence they did to the storyline. And part of that violence was the ridiculous overuse of lightsabers. Part of what made the REAL Yoda (in the originals) so great was he needed no lightsaber. Had Luke, Obi Wan or even Vader tried to pull one on him the fact that was on a whole different level in his Force mastery would have given him a huge advantage. He probably would have just used the Force to take their lightsaber away then told them to go away.

In that respect, Yoda is not a Jedi Knight but a Jedi Master. Giving him a baby lightsaber debased him to the level of ordinary Jedi Knights just like giving one to the Emperor debased him to the level of an ordinary Sith. And to make it worse Lucas robbed Yoda of his wisdom and intelligence in the prequels (really anyone with any intelligence would have immediately figured out Palpatine was the Sith Lord and also figured out about the clone army and so on). Those films are some of the worst pieces of screenwriting ever seen.

It's the example of films like the horrid prequels that makes me so sensitive to the issue of screenwriting. A good writer can craft a good story that can overcome stuff like cheaper SFX. But no matter how glitzy the SFX a poorly written story will sink it.

 

[Overmind One]

Eh.

To a lot of Star Wars fans (not just me) the prequels were loathed not just because of the overuse of CGI but also the violence they did to the storyline. And part of that violence was the ridiculous overuse of lightsabers. Part of what made the REAL Yoda (in the originals) so great was he needed no lightsaber. Had Luke, Obi Wan or even Vader tried to pull one on him the fact that was on a whole different level in his Force mastery would have given him a huge advantage. He probably would have just used the Force to take their lightsaber away then told them to go away.

The Sith and all the other Jedi have those same powers, only less so. I dont disagree that Yoda from the OT was awesome, it is just that his character was always a puppet to me visually. I was very okay with that and I still am. But seeing Yoda actually fight with his lightsaber was some visuals I needed to see. What would Odo be if he was only called a shapeshifter but you never saw him actually change shapes?

In that respect, Yoda is not a Jedi Knight but a Jedi Master. Giving him a baby lightsaber debased him to the level of ordinary Jedi Knights just like giving one to the Emperor debased him to the level of an ordinary Sith. And to make it worse Lucas robbed Yoda of his wisdom and intelligence in the prequels (really anyone with any intelligence would have immediately figured out Palpatine was the Sith Lord and also figured out about the clone army and so on). Those films are some of the worst pieces of screenwriting ever seen.

Bolded is true, but he was a Jedi Knight before he was a Master, as all Jedi Masters are. That means he was trained as a master of the light saber too. Im glad that the prequels allowed me to see him use it. But the rest of it was dreck.

It's the example of films like the horrid prequels that makes me so sensitive to the issue of screenwriting. A good writer can craft a good story that can overcome stuff like cheaper SFX. But no matter how glitzy the SFX a poorly written story will sink it.

Quite true. In the case of Star Trek, we have a scenario where the thing is already ruined. A director needs to be hired to repair it before it can move forward or it is just not worth watching anymore for me. Until the horribly broken things are fixed, it just wont ever be Star Trek to me again. It does not matter who is directing or writing if we are talking about a reality show for a turd.

 

[Joelist]

Actually they have the director in place - Justin Lin. We're waiting on the writer to be named.

 

[Jim of WVa]

 

[Overmind One]

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