Rings of Power on AMZ

Lord Ba'al

Well Known GateFan
@Lord Ba'al you and the wife watching this? (what is her username? can't find it)
I have not watched yet. The wife's username here is @Quetesh. Honestly I'm not really watching much anymore these days. The Orville and Strange New Worlds are done for now. The wife has got me watching The West Wing sometimes. Still have to finish the last season of Supernatural. I've been spending my time working and playing video games.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
So you've started your new position? How goes it?
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
and another thing

Jackson had a "STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER" who was NOT one in the Books in the character of Arwen! I don't remember anyone calling that out!

a total Mary Sue by having her, instead of Glorfindel, rescue the Hobbits at the Ford of Bruinen and use magic to bring a flood and drown the Nazgul, they Mary Sued Arwen into doing it

where was the outrage?
Really? The way Arwen was portrayed by Liv Tyler was completely different and FAR more relatable and appealing than the horrid portrayal of Galadriel so far. Arwen is not portrayed as perfect, is not unlikeable, is not a Karen (like Galadriel in RoP is). Galadriel in RoP comes off like a fantasy version of Michael Burnham. Arwen EARNS what she is lauded for and you can actually sympathize with her.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Really? The way Arwen was portrayed by Liv Tyler was completely different and FAR more relatable and appealing than the horrid portrayal of Galadriel so far. Arwen is not portrayed as perfect, is not unlikeable, is not a Karen (like Galadriel in RoP is). Galadriel in RoP comes off like a fantasy version of Michael Burnham. Arwen EARNS what she is lauded for and you can actually sympathize with her.
you have entirely wrong.. your basis of complaint of Galadriel is that she is not canonical. however, i have told you where in canon it is stated that she has the natural build of a man, she is athletic ,and has knowledge of weapons and their use

NO WHERE IN CANON is Arwen even presented as anything BUT a kept woman-- her presentation in LOTR's is entirely that of the Mary Sue

There is more to Galadriel's history as a warrior- her leading the attack on Dol Guldor along with her Husband is one I missed, as well as Tolkien's writings on how she was present with her Mother's people at the First Kinslaying and helped to fight the Noldor when they attacked and stole the Swan Ships

Its very telling too that nearly EVERY SINGLE video complaining about her is made by a man! If this were a random male character, or even Elrond portrayed far out of character as a skilled warrior- which he never was, as he was chiefly a scribe and leader.. NO ONE WOULD BAT A FREAKING EYE! You would all just go with it cause its a guy!

again, she was written and described to be "6'4" tall,, broad body, body of an athlete who could best most male or female elves", why in both LOTR's and this show she is miscast and a much larger actress should have been used, Like Gwen Christie.

You speak of her as a docile "kept" woman, like Arwen WAS, but she was not this until much later, in the Third Age. Also she was not skilled in magic UNIT AFTER she lived in Doriath and learned some from its Queen, Melian the Maiar, but did not know magic of her own until she received HER Ring of Power in the Second Age, after the events we are seeing in this show

there STILL IS much to see, and to judge the ENTIRELTY of the show and one character from 3 episodes is ludicrous. Now, as the video makers states as well, if TPTB's TOTALLY ignore her husband, Celeborn (whom she should already been married to for centuries by now, though they spent centuries apart) then that WOULD BE a major issue

On him, its important to note that Jackson too vastly underplayed his role to that of "shiny accoutrement" to Galadriel", as some type of Queens Consort when he was far more important than that

this guy does a lot better at summing it all up

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdxVeg4TpDo&t=904s
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Ep 7 NOW This show has a potentially unretractable problem

"My husband, Celeborn, is dead"

Ok... so, UNLESS they have changed things up a bit, (which would be FINE) from the canon writings of Galadriel and Celeborn spending long periods of time apart to one where they each think the other dead- BIG problem

not only with canon but also with their contract as TPTBs were not to change the outcome or status of anything in the Jackson films (which are pretty much flat out canon)

why I am thinking they are going to have him revealed as having been lost after battle, or even perhaps was dead and returned to life by the Valar same as was Glorfindel. maybe some future reward for Galadriel?

the blinding of the Numenorean Queen is also a nice touch; her being physically blind is a good sub for he being emotionally blind in the books- what allows Pharazon to take over

and the show has a Sauron problem and always has since it established its timeline. most fans have accepted the time condense, however for a show based on the Rings of Power, these rings were ALREADY made about 2000 yrs before the events seen in this show

The war of the elves and sauron has already occurred in Eregion after the Elves discovered his treachery. the setting they are in, established by the presence of Queen Miriel and Pharazon, places it at the end of the 2nd age.. meaning Mordor and the Barad Dur should have long ago been built; all the Rings made, all the Nazgul created, etc
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I'm totally confused at this point how this narrative they have crafted fits the lore at all. Sauron is a major issue as is the creation of Mordor. And I agree the show is set too close in time to the War of the Ring - the Rings should already be extant.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
I'm totally confused at this point how this narrative they have crafted fits the lore at all.
couple things that at least, imo, as i see as 'problematic' per source material (NOT any anti wokism blah blah :) )

1- the Stranger-- me and others i read and watch think he is one of the Blue Istari who Tolkien did state arrived first in Mid EARTH, and in the 2nd age

the problem is they would not have arrived via meteorite! all Valar and Maiar who would ever be in the World (ARDA), per Tolkien, had already long ago arrived on the World. there are other Valar and Maiar but they exist in the Galaxy and are shut from the "song of arda"

All wizards and anyone else coming from the West arrived by sailing ship. And, before the destruction of Numenor, the path, the course was not "bent" but a more or less regular sailing trip for those allowed to make the trip

The 3 women pursuing him are OK to add in I think. for now I would say they are some other type of "wizard/ magic user", non Maiar and probably Melkor worshippers.
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2- Mithril

the story that the Elves need Mithril to survive is of course NOT Tolkien, but it could very well be "Sauron's Big Lie" he made to Celebrimbor and Gil Galad to convince them to build the Forge in Eriador so quickly. Tolkien never stated exactly what the lie was, just leaves us to think he meant it was about the nature of the Rings

the Balrog being at the bottom of the Mithril deposit is canon. The Dwarves did awaken it when the dug too deeply. Tolkien never said why they dug too deeply though. Again, in the books/sources. they have a Ring at Kazhad Dum and their Rings didn't work as Sauron wanted, instead of controlling them, it made them more greedy and allowed them to amass more treasure. So Tolkien kind of left it that they lusted for more Mithril due to Durin having a Ring

But, in the sources, the Balrog doesn't wake up until the third age. i mean, it doesn't mean he will wake up in this show, but whatever
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3- Celeborn I already covered. Think TPTBs are just having him be absent to allow for some 'spark' between HAlbrand and Galadriel. Probably when they both get to Eregion it will be like "Oh Celeborn's showed up! Good thing we didn't f..k!"
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4- The War of Elves and Sauron ties to the rest and the Timeline issue, but I think that even with the amount of seasons they do have promised already, the only way the could go per the sources would be without much depth of story or characters-- it would be more documentary then drama
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5- Sauron has got to show at some point AND HE cannot be in two places at one time. He did not and never did have that power. None of Tolkien's Valar/Maiar do

so, we can't see him next week with Celebrimbor at his forge in EREGION and then see him also in Umbar, Pelagir or Mordor to surrender tothe Numenoreans when they return with Ar Pharazon

I am guessing since the show is called RINGS OF POWER, that they will have Sauron as Annatar appear in Eregion- probably there already, first. Have some failing out with the Elves short of major War. Retreat to Mordor, perhaps create the Nazgul, even if they stay mortal for the time being, by handing out the 9 Rings and maybe by the end of next season, surrender to Pharazon with the Downfall of Numenor the next season?
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AND LAST Adar

he is defi not in the sources while being everywhere in the sources

that is, as an ancient Elf, maybe even one of the First Awakened of Cuivenen, Elves like him are mentioned by Tolkien often. those who wandered and were captured by Morgoth and his servants and taken to Utumno. Where they were broken and bred as his Army- Orcs

and then those who were later taken in wars in Beleriand, and elsewhere in Mid EARTH, and either treated the same or simply used as slaves

eventually succumbing to darkness and becoming willing servants

since the Orcs call him father, I think he is going to be either one of the First of their kind or, as he hinted at, the one responsible for breaking away his group from other Orc survivors of the First age to find their own home

I think too he is a better version of how Tolkien did describe the Orcs. and thats not like the ones we got from Jackson, Tolkien's Orcs were more a spiritual and moral corrupted person, the physical appearances they may or may not have obtained were just results of long yrs of war and improperly cared for wounds. or even self hard as forms of initiation. Being immortal, they would collect a lot of wounds and scars. Not being in that Elven state of Light, the lack the ability to heal as a uncorrupted Elf would

Adar just may look unlike the others because he may have always been a leader and therefore not subject to injury like the masses? IKD, but i like, so far, how they have created him
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
season 1.. give it a 7 out of 10

Just going by its adherence to what source material there is AND how they filled the gaps in a Tolkien- style way
 
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YJ02

Well Known GateFan
S2 began filming this month; anticipated release for 24 or 25

on this last season-- ALL of those naybobbing fears and cries of WOKE,, gay elves and trans Hobbits,, all the other silliness put out by the "fandom" online

seems like really none of that appeared? The worst I can remember is the dumb Numenorean Guld worker talking about "Elves taking our jobs".. I mean that was just dumb. Like the show runners Mom insisted on him putting that in or something

anyhow:


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YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Ok.. this guy.. don't know why he popped in my YT feed but glad he did

he is the perfect example of a trash talking "fan" who doesn't have any clue of what he is talking about when it comes to source material-- especially how for this show, there really isn't any source material

he is discussing either a hard reboot of the show-a do over, with "different characters".. umm.. OK, the characters they had in S1? Those ARE the chief characters of the story from the LOTR's Appendices- the only source material TPTBs are allowed to use. Of course there are some add ins-- like all of the Harfoots, Adar, the Southlanders and a few others, but the principal characters ARE the main characters, so which "other characters is he talking of? Number 1 red flag he doesn't know what he doesn't know

then in the other option for S2- keeping S1 in play, keeping the actors and actresses, getting new TPTBs and writers and,, these TWO THINGS STUCK OUT:

1- "Don't do Sauron and if you do use him he needs to be in monster magical evil form.. no more young Halbrand, that version needs to go"

Ok! what a dumbass.. a young pleasing to the eye, knowledgeable and eager to help Annatar (Sauron, not the name he used btw) IS the way the he appeared in all of the 2nd Age! So these people complaining about how TPTBs are spitting on Tolkien... yeah, doing that to Sauron-- making him into some 'magical monster'( which he never was except for a brief time in the 1st age while fighting Galadriel's' brother-- the fight that killed him why she is so pissed off and bent on revenge!) THAT WOULD BE PISSING on Tolkien's grave!

Sauron maintaining his young and pleasing form is KEY to his being taken to Numenor where he will become CHeif minister and orchestrate the corruption and downfall of the Numenoreans

2- He like so many others, are OBSESSED with how Galadriel looks and acts! "She is so mean.. acts evil, like she is the villain"

If this guy, or any others had read the books-- which the showrunners are not allowed to use-- then they would know that Galadriel's (BTW NOT her name at this point in time,, it was Artanis from her father, and Nerwen, named by her mother. Who named her such as she had the body build and disposition of a MALE ELF; The name means 'man maiden' . Tolkien stated that she had an "she was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats". She was very tall for a female Elf, about 6' 6", while Tolkien had Male Elves at around 7') MERE PRESENCE in Middle Earth- her choice to come to Middle Earth and subjecting herself to the Doom of Mandos after she took part in the slaughter of her mother's people when Feanor and the Noldor he led to ME attacked them to steal their ships--- THIS IS WHY in the LOTR's books and in the movie, when Frodo offers her the Ring and she refuses, she states how she had 'passed the test and can now pass into the west' https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Galadriel#:~:text=Galadriel was born in Eldamar,"Man-maiden").

so her entire existence in ME, like all of the Noldor, is cursed, doomed to pain, agony and ultimate failure and fading. But also, she is one of the few still alive who realize that they made a mistake in coming to ME and his repentant, but cannot bring herself to act on that as she is both vengeful to destroy Sauron and has designs along with her husband, to be rulers of their own Kingdom in ME.

Guys like this saying what they do about her show their ignorance of the material when they go spouting of what they do

Now, when he brings up about how its he fault that Sauron got away- when Halbrand got away--who, IMO opinion was a terrible choice of actor to play a "pleasing looking Annatar; Lord of Gifts" -- that is valid. Not because the actress did a bad job, but because that is not how it happened in the source material

for some reason, i guess to condense time, tptb's decided to skip the war of the elves and Sauron, which happened after all the rings were created- for the men, dwarves and elves- for which Sauron was not present for. Galaldriel had no direct part in this

Now to be fair, they could do away with her character entirely if they chose, the Appendices does not really give her any direct role other than to say she and her husband were there. and she defi. was not in Numenor.

My other issues with S1 I put upthread

these people really need to stop with the --IDK what to call it? its not really gas lighting,, but stop what the yare doing whenever people like me call them out and tell them their issues are unfounded as their complaints are just as not based or worse, in the source material, then the show is. But no, its personal attacks, "you are on AMZ payroll", and other BS

I have been reading these books again, again and again, since I was about 12.. I kind of fcking know what I am talking about

and lastly, and I said it before, it is entirely asinine of the Tolkien Estate to have made the stipulations they did on what sources they could use-- only the LOTRs appendices-- can't use the Silmarillion, the Akallabeth, or any of the other dozen or so books out there. And, anything they put out, using such limited base, cannot change anything in LOTRs movies, HOBBIT movie or contradict anything in any of the books that they can't use anyhow!

IDK,, how about whoever owns Star Trek awards a project for a new series, but the TPTBs must base it ONLY on the SERIES FINALE of TNG-- cannot use any of the rest of TNG, the other TV shows or TOS or the Movies but also cannot change anything that has been established has canon in those other shows?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shd9M5r1w0o&t=328s
 
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