Nelson Mandela passes away

[Overmind One]

I did not know that, but considering the disenfranchisement of people over the years of Bush and his *percieved* failures, followed by Obama and his *perceived* failures, it does not surprise me. Lets face it, Obama kept the presidency not based on any action of his own, but based on backlash against his competition and people not being willing to vote for Romney (so there was some truth to Rac's assertion that Romney had an honest vote)

*I say perceived failures, cause we know that both sides like to blow stuff up out of proportion, and some may not see them as failures at all.

Here is the Gallup data on political identification. They show that about 40% of Americans are Independents, with the rest split amongst Dems and Republicans, and the Republicans are at the bottom.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151943/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

 

[Gatefan1976]

Wha? . I got news for you bro! The people that voted for Romney would have voted for Rush Limbaugh if he had been on the ticket against Obama. Even Justin Bieber would have had a shot. The people who voted for Romney WERE voting for him because they did not want Obama to retain the presidency. They wanted him to be a "one term President". Were you under a rock bro?

LOL
No, I hardly think I was under a rock
Can you see you just proved my point though?
These people would have voted for ANYONE.
Now, hang a sec.

Bolded is exactly what they did Obama pulled voted because he had a more appealing platform. And despite the real world rollout of Obamacare, most Americans were for it and not against it. Obama was for immigration "reform", and he was not vested in big business. I think on this particular take you are wrong. What would be the reasons to vote AGAINST Romney? That will answer your questions and correct your perceptions...I hope.

[/quote]
Did you vote for Obama this term because you believed in him, or because you did not want Romney in?
How about the rest of the people here?

Let me try this again before we get embroiled in a miscommunication match.

I don't believe that the rhetoric of the tea party or the republicans in 2012 really swung anyones vote to an extent. If it did I don't think you would have seen a massive disparity in the Electoral College votes (327 to 203 wasn't it?)
In essence, whatever crap they were peddling simply made no difference *to those that would have voted republican anyway* In that sense they were "honest votes", you follow?

On the other hand, I DO believe that the democratic party had a certain advantage insofar as there may have been "republic leaning" people that simply would never vote for Romney for either the campaign run against him (fuelled by his own silly mouth sometimes), or his Religion, that voted against HIM..

Is that clearer?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Here is the Gallup data on political identification. They show that about 40% of Americans are Independents, with the rest split amongst Dems and Republicans, and the Republicans are at the bottom.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151943/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

View attachment 28929

I never doubted your assertion dude

 

[Overmind One]

You misunderstand me here dude.
I mean "honest vote" insofar as people did not seem to vote for him simply because they did not want Obama to retain the presidency. People who would have voted against Obama based on his colour or whatever would never have changed their vote anyway and would have voted for whatever Republican candidate was running. Obama however pulled votes based on the notion that people would not vote for Romney and voted for Obama out of "protest"

Does that make more sense to you now?

Im still not understanding what you are saying...are you denying that Romney voters were voting against Obama and not "for" anything in particular?

 

[Overmind One]

LOL
No, I hardly think I was under a rock
Can you see you just proved my point though?
These people would have voted for ANYONE.
Now, hang a sec.

Okay, with you so far....

Did you vote for Obama this term because you believed in him, or because you did not want Romney in?
How about the rest of the people here?

Let me try this again before we get embroiled in a miscommunication match.

I voted for Obama because I could not in good conscience vote for Romney based on his platform (what was verifiable). After his first few outright lies, I could not even listen to him anymore. I hate liars. So yeah, I voted for Obama because I could not vote for Romney.

I don't believe that the rhetoric of the tea party or the republicans in 2012 really swung anyones vote to an extent. If it did I don't think you would have seen a massive disparity in the Electoral College votes (327 to 203 wasn't it?)
In essence, whatever crap they were peddling simply made no difference *to those that would have voted republican anyway* In that sense they were "honest votes", you follow?

Okay, that is where we are coming to a snag. I do not think that voting purely along party lines is "honest". I see it as being the lemming voter. Like those who voted for Obama because he is black and not because he was such a spectacular politician. I think that the "honest" voters are the Independents. I don't think most of today's GOP can even spell the word honest, let alone know what the definition of the word is. But to say that Romney got the "honest vote"...meh, that is a huge stretch for me. I still disagree with that.

On the other hand, I DO believe that the democratic party had a certain advantage insofar as there may have been "republic leaning" people that simply would never vote for Romney for either the campaign run against him (fuelled by his own silly mouth sometimes), or his Religion, that voted against HIM..

Is that clearer?

Even his own party attacked him for being a "wealthy plutocrat", and being married to a known equestrian with dancing horses. During his primary run, the most damaging attacks came from Republicans, particularly those he was running against for the candidacy.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Im still not understanding what you are saying...are you denying that Romney voters were voting against Obama and not "for" anything in particular?

Nono.
they would have voted for a ham sandwich as you said, but I *wonder* if the "anti-Obama rhetoric" was really a major factor, or "just another reason to vote the way I would have anyway"
Do you see the difference?
If I was going out to buy a ham sandwich, and when I got to the deli the only sandwiches available were ham sandwiches and one other that I hated anyway, it wasn't really a choice, was it?

 

[Overmind One]

I never doubted your assertion dude

Didnt say you did. But I wanted the data to be in the thread for reference...in case Rac makes the claim again that there are not more Dems than Republicans (she is wrong). There are more Independents than either party, but most of them lean "liberal" (Dem). The rest of the Independents are orphaned Republicans from the old school. But I fear that old school has been shut down after being shot up by the Tea Party spree shooters.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Okay, that is where we are coming to a snag. I do not think that voting purely along party lines is "honest". I see it as being the lemming voter. Like those who voted for Obama because he is black and not because he was such a spectacular politician. I think that the "honest" voters are the Independents. I don't think most of today's GOP can even spell the word honest, let alone know what the definition of the word is. But to say that Romney got the "honest vote"...meh, that is a huge stretch for me. I still disagree with that.

Yes, it is being a "lemming voter", but lemmings are honest in their own way, they know no other way, yet still believe that they are doing "the right thing", even when they jump of the cliff.
It's not wise, it's not informed, but it is what "they believe", and they *honestly* believe it.
Is this better?

Even his own party attacked him for being a "wealthy plutocrat", and being married to a known equestrian with dancing horses. During his primary run, the most damaging attacks came from Republicans, particularly those he was running against for the candidacy.

Don't mistake my view on those who *voted* for Romney and their "honesty" with what I personally think of Romney. I hold his political campaign in as much distain as you do.

 

[Overmind One]

Yes, it is being a "lemming voter", but lemmings are honest in their own way, they know no other way, yet still believe that they are doing "the right thing", even when they jump of the cliff.
It's not wise, it's not informed, but it is what "they believe", and they *honestly* believe it.
Is this better?

Don't mistake my view on those who *voted* for Romney and their "honesty" with what I personally think of Romney. I hold his political campaign in as much distain as you do.

No, not better. Hate to be so stubborn on this, but to me calling the Romney voters "honest voters" is a misnomer. Its like the gun hoarding racist rural voters calling themselves "Patriots" whilst the rest of us are Marxist commie n****r lovers. The "honest" voters are on the other side of the fence, not in the GOP camp. Rac saying that Romney got the "honest vote" sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[Gatefan1976]

No, not better. Hate to be so stubborn on this, but to me calling the Romney voters "honest voters" is a misnomer. Its like the gun hoarding racist rural voters calling themselves "Patriots" whilst the rest of us are Marxist commie n****r lovers. The "honest" voters are on the other side of the fence, not in the GOP camp. Rac saying that Romney got the "honest vote" sounds ridiculous to me.

Be as stubborn as you want dude

I think we actually do agree to an extent, you can see my point, and even accept my point, but you object to the use of the term "honest". I can accept that your definition and mine do not match up, gods know it is hardly the first time

 

[Overmind One]

Be as stubborn as you want dude

I think we actually do agree to an extent, you can see my point, and even accept my point, but you object to the use of the term "honest". I can accept that your definition and mine do not match up, gods know it is hardly the first time

 

[Gatefan1976]

ROFL LOLOLOLOLO!!!!

I actually have one of the steel signs for "keep calm and carry on" in pride of place over one of my bookshelves
(my *uncle who lives in England brought it for me years ago)
I also have a T-shirt that says "keep calm and use the force"

It seems everything is "meme-worthy" these days.............

*Uncle: My grandmothers brothers son, I think uncle is the right appellation