Mallozzi is a huge liar! Here is the proof.

Will

GateFans Noob
It's true there was a noticeable fall but I just wonder if it was large enough for Syfy to give up on the whole effort. That's a lot of money to invest only to give up after 10 episodes.

My guess looking at the comments made by Syfy and Joe is that the show met a pre-determined average to be renewed. The whole 2 season deal thing meant Syfy couldn't opt out based on trends because the average met the requirements of the contract.

Well this is all moot now because the show got crap ratings and was cancelled but the point is that when fans highlighted rumours that there was a 2 year deal from Syfy, intead of TPTB saying "yes there was a 2 year deal (although there was a get-out after 10 episodes if the ratings had really really tanked)" they denied there was a 2 year deal at all, which was a lie. And they denied it because they didn't want SGA fans to put 2+2 together and realise they'd sold out on a 6th season of SGA to maximise their chances of a 2nd season of SGU.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
The tweet was very clear, Yoshi.

It's true there was a noticeable fall but I just wonder if it was large enough for Syfy to give up on the whole effort. That's a lot of money to invest only to give up after 10 episodes.

My guess looking at the comments made by Syfy and Joe is that the show met a pre-determined average to be renewed. The whole 2 season deal thing meant Syfy couldn't opt out based on trends because the average met the requirements of the contract.

The tweet from Engler said that they committed to two years from the beginning, and added that it was unusual for a TV show to get that. So, SGU was technically never "renewed". It simply fulfilled its original two-year contract (which was not extended) and now its over. NOT getting renewed wasnt an option. My bet is that this was done to secure the commitments from Carlyle, LDP and others.
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
And just remember, those exces who foolishly gave the show a 2 year advance committment are no longer with SyFy. Decisions like that are part of why SyFy has new leadership.


yup, yup-- I bet those guys are crying in their $15 cups of prententious latte (coffee filtered through bat droppings I guess :P) and poking pins in the Mallozzi and Wright Voodoo dolls (comes complete with minature destiny and pics of "the girls: that belong to Lt. James) and blaming the critics for not loving sgpoo! ;)

I think they were expecting considerably better ratings than they got. We know that SGU was pitched on the premise that it would attract considerably more viewers than Atlantis did (and comments by cast and crew suggest that they predicted in the region of 3 million viewers). Look at the ratings graph - the pilot started off well (i.e. the Atlantis fanbase tuning in to see what SGU was like) and it showed a steady plummet thereafter. The only rise came after "Time" and in my opinion that was because that episode actually resembled sci-fi and posed as a two part episode.


Yep they never really equalled the ratings of SGA from the start. Air didn't garner the ratings (or excitement IMHO) of Rising. Rising will stand as not only the best Stargate premier, but one of the BEST tv premiers I have ever seen. :)

Well this is all moot now because the show got crap ratings and was cancelled but the point is that when fans highlighted rumours that there was a 2 year deal from Syfy, intead of TPTB saying "yes there was a 2 year deal (although there was a get-out after 10 episodes if the ratings had really really tanked)" they denied there was a 2 year deal at all, which was a lie. And they denied it because they didn't want SGA fans to put 2+2 together and realise they'd sold out on a 6th season of SGA to maximise their chances of a 2nd season of SGU.


how dare we not be basement-dwelling trolls who dropped out of high school and play world of warcraft all day! :icon_eek: the NERVE of the sga fans (and general stargate fans) to be smarter, better educated, ADULTS than they expected! :P
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
There's no need to "guess", the tweets are clear.

My guess looking at the comments made by Syfy and Joe is that the show met a pre-determined average to be renewed. The whole 2 season deal thing meant Syfy couldn't opt out based on trends because the average met the requirements of the contract.

The tweet from Engler said that they committed to two years from the beginning, and added that it was unusual for a TV show to get that. So, SGU was technically never "renewed". It simply fulfilled its original two-year contract (which was not extended) and now its over. NOT getting renewed wasnt an option. My bet is that this was done to secure the commitments from Carlyle, LDP and others.

That's the whole point! If the second season had been dependent upon the ratings of the first 10 episodes, that would have been like most shows which get renewed or cancelled around mid-season, and Craig's tweet would be complete nonsense. The only meaningful interpretation is, yes, 2 years right off the bat.

The reason for such an unusual deal being probably BW's track record and because BW argued that the show would "need some time to find its new audience" (remember he dismissed the existing SG fans).

Still, that's not to say that if SGU had premiered with awful ratings of 1.0 - 1.5 mio viewers Syfy wouldn't have pulled the plug anyway to avoid going bankrupt...
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
the facts are the facts

That's the whole point! If the second season had been dependent upon the ratings of the first 10 episodes, that would have been like most shows which get renewed or cancelled around mid-season, and Craig's tweet would be complete nonsense. The only meaningful interpretation is, yes, 2 years right off the bat.

The reason for such an unusual deal being probably BW's track record and because BW argued that the show would "need some time to find its new audience" (remember he dismissed the existing SG fans).

Still, that's not to say that if SGU had premiered with awful ratings of 1.0 - 1.5 mio viewers Syfy wouldn't have pulled the plug anyway to avoid going bankrupt...


Sweetie you are ignoring a squeedrone's ability to spin....they can spin all day and never get dizzy!
2uge4p4.gif
a true dyed in the world squeedrone (and we have encountered a few of those!) refuses to let FACTS change it's mind about anything! ;) they will add the "but ..." everytime, even if it ends up making them look like an ass. there is always a reason the facts don't add up to the negative with them. :rolleyes: makes one wonder if they can do math at all?
 

Tropicana

Council Member
:rolleyes: makes one wonder if they can do math at all?
Hello - look at WHR and their made up numbers (evidence they can't do maths at all, lol) however it's nice to see moderate level squeedrones at GW are not buying into their BS. Like 800,000 viewers at Australia - puh-lease who are they trying to fool? Especially when official ratings state it's 1/4 of that.
 

Will

GateFans Noob
Hello - look at WHR and their made up numbers (evidence they can't do maths at all, lol) however it's nice to see moderate level squeedrones at GW are not buying into their BS. Like 800,000 viewers at Australia - puh-lease who are they trying to fool? Especially when official ratings state it's 1/4 of that.

Also wasn't SGU canned in Australia after just a few episodes because the ratings were THAT BAD?
 

Tropicana

Council Member
It was, but another Australian channel has decided to try again. Ratings are around 0.2m and appears to be fluctuating downwards a lot.
 

SparklyPinkUnicorn

GateFans Member
Because comments this good bear repeating

The tweet from Engler said that they committed to two years from the beginning, and added that it was unusual for a TV show to get that. So, SGU was technically never "renewed". It simply fulfilled its original two-year contract (which was not extended) and now its over. NOT getting renewed wasnt an option. My bet is that this was done to secure the commitments from Carlyle, LDP and others.

Exactly. SGU was given a blank check for 2 years from the start and it's clear there were no scheduled "maintenance examinations" within that time frame; there were no goals to meet to guarantee continued funding because they got the whole wad for 2 seasons up front.

TPTB had the cushion of a 2 season guarantee, which is blatantly obvious by the fact that they didn't change a damn thing at the end of the first season -- they didn't feel any pressure to improve the show and make it more commercially palatable because the guarantee of a second season was in the bag.

Let's see, there was no beta testing (market testing) prior to release of the entire first season, which is clue number 1 that they had the confidence of a guaranteed budget backing them. Then there was the fact that they didn't markedly change anything in the interim between seasons 1 and 2, which means they weren't worried about the money because they knew it had been guaranteed from the start. What they didn't count on was such a precipitous fall and they probably just assumed that since they got 2 season's worth of funding up front that they'd continue to get funding for several more seasons or at the very least one more season. Pride goeth before a fall. (I won't go into that laughable story about a 5 season story arc because it's been proven that TPTB only began mentioning that recently to try and cover their asses.)
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Hmmm

It was, but another Australian channel has decided to try again. Ratings are around 0.2m and appears to be fluctuating downwards a lot.

Really? I wonder why that is...:icon_lol:

You know, I cant think of a single segment of society that this show would appeal to. One million people is not that much when you really think about it. I have seen a million people on the beach at Santa Monica and its definitly a significant number of people but not THAT significant. So, in a country of over 300 million people, SGU could only grab one million? Its that little tiny group that is fighting for SGU and whining about its cancellation, not the SG fandom as a whole.
 

Tropicana

Council Member
Really? I wonder why that is...:icon_lol:

You know, I cant think of a single segment of society that this show would appeal to. One million people is not that much when you really think about it. I have seen a million people on the beach at Santa Monica and its definitly a significant number of people but not THAT significant. So, in a country of over 300 million people, SGU could only grab one million? Its that little tiny group that is fighting for SGU and whining about its cancellation, not the SG fandom as a whole.
That's what is so laughable about SGU's performance in its own home turf. Out of a population of 307 million, SGU can only snag around 1 million (worst case, around 0.8m). That's 1/307 of the entire U.S population at best - talk about embarrassment. The squeedrones can hype all they want and say, bigger budget, better stories. Not in this case, the stories are shit and the viewers have spoken.

That money they wasted could have so gone to better entertainment or used to save lives.
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
I could have spent the money better!

That's what is so laughable about SGU's performance in its own home turf. Out of a population of 307 million, SGU can only snag around 1 million (worst case, around 0.8m). That's 1/307 of the entire U.S population at best - talk about embarrassment. The squeedrones can hype all they want and say, bigger budget, better stories. Not in this case, the stories are shit and the viewers have spoken.

That money they wasted could have so gone to better entertainment or used to save lives.


I would have spent it on many other things- a sixth season of SGA, put Firefly back on tv, hell feed & house few thousand people, pay off part of the national debt (yeah a VERY small part) , provide mental health benefits to the sgpoo lovers (they obviously needed it :laughing:),oh the list goes on and on. And if they me decide I will do it for 40% less than they did- I'm a bargain hunter! ;)
 

YoshiKart64

Well Known GateFan
That's what is so laughable about SGU's performance in its own home turf. Out of a population of 307 million, SGU can only snag around 1 million (worst case, around 0.8m). That's 1/307 of the entire U.S population at best - talk about embarrassment. The squeedrones can hype all they want and say, bigger budget, better stories. Not in this case, the stories are shit and the viewers have spoken.

That money they wasted could have so gone to better entertainment or used to save lives.

The numbers are all relative though - that Spartacus show over on Starz is being hailed as a breakout hit for getting around 1 million viewers. Or Sanctuary for getting a fraction more (when talking on this scale).

I think it would be unfair to disregard that many people simply by comparison.

Not that SGU shouldn't have had a lot more broad appeal with it's high price tag and cast. Also it probably shouldn't have veered left while carrying the bank money in the hope it could pull it off and not crash.
 

Tropicana

Council Member
You are correct, numbers are relative.

So is history, more specifically brand history. Stargate as a brand name excels in excellence, excels in attracting viewers. As a fan and someone that is quite loyal to this particular brand, it hurts me to see numbers worst than 1.5m.

To make matters worst, some people feel the need to justify poor results which in my books is never acceptable, if one can get an A grade, I will push you to get an A grade. I know how well Stargate can be and SGU does not excel and, the numbers state quite clearly that.
 

SparklyPinkUnicorn

GateFans Member
Valentine Wishes and Candy Jelly Hearts for Tropi!

That's what is so laughable about SGU's performance in its own home turf. Out of a population of 307 million, SGU can only snag around 1 million (worst case, around 0.8m). That's 1/307 of the entire U.S population at best - talk about embarrassment. The squeedrones can hype all they want and say, bigger budget, better stories. Not in this case, the stories are shit and the viewers have spoken.

That money they wasted could have so gone to better entertainment or used to save lives.

Although I'm all for saving lives I'll focus on the bolded part of your comment because it's pertinent. What you've said is the simple, obvious truth of the matter. With the kind of guaranteed budget SGU had the show should have been much better than it was. There really is no excuse for such a gargantuan waste of money when you compare it to other shows with lesser budgets who do better numbers than SGU. "Sanctuary" is a great example of this.

Yes, out of a nation of 300 million "Sanctuary" gets around 1.5 million give or take (off the top of my head), which are just as low of numbers as SGU was getting at times (never quite as low though ;) ). The key to remember here isn't so much the percentage of viewers compared to the size of the population but rather, does "Sanctuary" make money for its producers, distributors and investors? The answer is obvious as the show keeps getting renewed. The fact that they don't squander their budget on unneeded sets and cast members no doubt helps, but that simply means they know what they're doing because, unlike SGU, they don't have a guarantee of financial support for 2 entire seasons and they can't get lazy or they'll perish.

If one thinks about it, really thinks about it, Mallozzi's comments regarding this matter simply are not credible for all the reasons listed. Without a guaranteed budget for 2 seasons TPTB wouldn't have had the luxury of going off on a soap opera tangent but rather they would have been forced from the start to create a Stargate show that was based on the same successful style and formula of the two predecessors. That's lie #1 from Mallozzi. Lie #2 is the claim that SyFy execs were clamoring for a "darker and grittier" version of Stargate and essentially forced BW's and RC's hand into creating SGU. :roll: When BW and RC told the SyFy execs they wanted to do a new STARGATE show the execs said yes. Who wouldn't. Any mention of it being "darker" or "grittier" would have little bearing on the decision to green light a STARGATE show because there were two successful shows of the same name to base that decision on. In short, the SyFy execs weren't clamoring for a different version of Stargate, they were eager for more of the same! Mallozzi is a tool for thinking anyone would believe otherwise.
 

THX1138

GateFans Member
Also wasn't SGU canned in Australia after just a few episodes because the ratings were THAT BAD?

On Free To Air? Yes, and during summer "non ratings" time. Channel 10 has now started a secondary digital called Eleven and is airing the first season there in an attempt to recover a portion of their lost money.

Sci Fi Australia (pay TV) has the first run rights to SGU and is still airing it.
 

Inara

GateFans Noob
If one thinks about it, really thinks about it, Mallozzi's comments regarding this matter simply are not credible for all the reasons listed. Without a guaranteed budget for 2 seasons TPTB wouldn't have had the luxury of going off on a soap opera tangent but rather they would have been forced from the start to create a Stargate show that was based on the same successful style and formula of the two predecessors. That's lie #1 from Mallozzi. Lie #2 is the claim that SyFy execs were clamoring for a "darker and grittier" version of Stargate and essentially forced BW's and RC's hand into creating SGU. :roll: When BW and RC told the SyFy execs they wanted to do a new STARGATE show the execs said yes. Who wouldn't. Any mention of it being "darker" or "grittier" would have little bearing on the decision to green light a STARGATE show because there were two successful shows of the same name to base that decision on. In short, the SyFy execs weren't clamoring for a different version of Stargate, they were eager for more of the same! Mallozzi is a tool for thinking anyone would believe otherwise.

I do wonder if TPTB (and MGM) pushed for a two season guarantee because they knew even in the best case scenario, it would take at least that long to justify building all new (apparently Super Speshul) sets, which aren't cheap. Plus they appeared to want a "name" actor involved as an anchor for the show, much as SG-1 started out as a vehicle for RDA. I imagine that cost them a pretty penny too.

I do think SyFy would have been perfectly fine with more SGA and/or a new show in the traditional Stargate vein, but I wonder if there's a grain of truth in SyFy wanting "grittier" because they were losing BSG. They probably thought they were getting the best of both worlds by combining the Stargate-verse with the darker tone of BSG that garnered critical acclaim. I don't think they were necessarily clamoring for it, but could have easily been talked into it, simply because the Stargate "brand" had been selling very well for them. So maybe not clamoring, but given a really good sales pitch for a show that turned out to be a lemon in the ratings.
 
R

Robbie_Rocket_Pants

Guest
I do wonder if TPTB (and MGM) Plus they appeared to want a "name" actor involved as an anchor for the show

If TPTB wanted "name" actors as a hook for potential viewers, I bet they must be resentful of Carlyle, LDP & Ming Na for not pulling in the viewers (instead of blaming themselve's for writing boring, soulless, shite TV).
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
If TPTB wanted "name" actors as a hook for potential viewers, I bet they must be resentful of Carlyle, LDP & Ming Na for not pulling in the viewers (instead of blaming themselve's for writing boring, soulless, shite TV).

The only problem with that is Robbie, RC was the only element of SGU to actually win a gemini... :P
 
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