Lost Civilizations and human pre- history

[YJ02]

What bothers me is when people go to movies and think that they are based in historical truth when in reality they are complete falsehoods. Gods of Egypt, Moses, The Story of Jesus, Noah, all are historically, ethnically and factually false movie re-imaginings. Yet people will refer to those movies when arguing historical fact.

yup--all of those movies are based on religions, no historical events involved

buy yeah, ppl use these stories -and ancient greek myth (religion) among others, to think they have a understanding of history

to use VIKINGS again. in the past i have looked on reddit and fb VIKINGS pages. the fan theories as to what may happen are so pointless!! if they just read some history, they would know the ending-or at least know how much altered the TPTB's have made it.

 

[Jim of WVa]

What bothers me is when people go to movies and think that they are based in historical truth when in reality they are complete falsehoods. Gods of Egypt, Moses, The Story of Jesus, Noah, all are historically, ethnically and factually false movie re-imaginings. Yet people will refer to those movies when arguing historical fact.

Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth
Amazon product

 

[Jim of WVa]

yup--all of those movies are based on religions, no historical events involved

buy yeah, ppl use these stories -and ancient greek myth (religion) among others, to think they have a understanding of history

to use VIKINGS again. in the past i have looked on reddit and fb VIKINGS pages. the fan theories as to what may happen are so pointless!! if they just read some history, they would know the ending-or at least know how much altered the TPTB's have made it.

What part of the story of Odysseus do you not believe to be historical? Surely there was someone by that name who fought in a war at Troy.

 

[YJ02]

Odysseus do you not believe to be historical

idk, maybe the part where his men are turned to pigs, or when others are eaten by a cyclops

 

[PussyGalore]

Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth
Amazon product

There were many "Jesus-es" back in the day. What I mean by this is that there wasn't just one guy claiming to be the son of God, there were many. The prophecy that God would return to the Hebrews was (is) part of their beliefs and there have always been people claiming to be the one they've been waiting for. That's part and parcel for large religions. Chances are the Jesus mythos is an amalgam of stories cobbled together into a cohesive narrative that became Christianity. I see similarities with other characters raised to deity status, like Buddha. It's the story of one guy (Gautama) but chances are it's an amalgam of memes from that period. There were thousands of people looking for enlightenment and teaching meditation techniques in India back then. So it's not surprising that that practice coalesced into a single belief system with the tale of a human who achieves deity status. Gautama just happened to be the guy they used to tell the tale. (See the similarity there?)

So maybe there was just one guy whose story got remembered and told (and was HIGHLY embellished) or maybe Jesus is just an archetype that became wildly successful. At this stage of the game it's not really that important.

*Buddhism is a philosophy but it can't be denied that billions of people consider it a religion.

 

[Overmind One]

There were many "Jesus-es" back in the day. What I mean by this is that there wasn't just one guy claiming to be the son of God, there were many. The prophecy that God would return to the Hebrews was (is) part of their beliefs and there have always been people claiming to be the one they've been waiting for. That's part and parcel for large religions. Chances are the Jesus mythos is an amalgam of stories cobbled together into a cohesive narrative that became Christianity. I see similarities with other characters raised to deity status, like Buddha. It's the story of one guy (Gautama) but chances are it's an amalgam of memes from that period. There were thousands of people looking for enlightenment and teaching meditation techniques in India back then. So it's not surprising that that practice coalesced into a single belief system with the tale of a human who achieves deity status. Gautama just happened to be the guy they used to tell the tale. (See the similarity there?)

So maybe there was just one guy whose story got remembered and told (and was HIGHLY embellished) or maybe Jesus is just an archetype that became wildly successful. At this stage of the game it's not really that important.

*Buddhism is a philosophy but it can't be denied that billions of people consider it a religion.

Correct on all counts! There is more verifiable history about the Pharaohs than there is for the existence of an actual person known as Jesus the Christ. Most likely the most recent version of the human turned deity myth for the pre-Christians of that era was Mithra.

"*Buddhism is a philosophy but it can't be denied that billions of people consider it a religion."

TRUE! Then again, 100% of all churches are businesses but it can't be denied that millions of people consider them to be religious.

 

[YJ02]

Then again, 100% of all churches are businesses but it can't be denied that millions of people consider them to be religious.

well, pretty much all religions-except islam, which i think was tailor made from the start to control ppl and the 'philosophy' of it was made up later- are co-opted philosophies done for the sole purpose of controlling ppl

that whole cycle of the lazy ppl in town saying they are 'holy men' and 'you must bring us your kids, food and gold so that we will tell god to do good things for you' thing repeating over and over again

 

[Jim of WVa]

There were many "Jesus-es" back in the day. What I mean by this is that there wasn't just one guy claiming to be the son of God, there were many. The prophecy that God would return to the Hebrews was (is) part of their beliefs and there have always been people claiming to be the one they've been waiting for. That's part and parcel for large religions. Chances are the Jesus mythos is an amalgam of stories cobbled together into a cohesive narrative that became Christianity. I see similarities with other characters raised to deity status, like Buddha. It's the story of one guy (Gautama) but chances are it's an amalgam of memes from that period. There were thousands of people looking for enlightenment and teaching meditation techniques in India back then. So it's not surprising that that practice coalesced into a single belief system with the tale of a human who achieves deity status. Gautama just happened to be the guy they used to tell the tale. (See the similarity there?)

So maybe there was just one guy whose story got remembered and told (and was HIGHLY embellished) or maybe Jesus is just an archetype that became wildly successful. At this stage of the game it's not really that important.

*Buddhism is a philosophy but it can't be denied that billions of people consider it a religion.

I am more inclined to believe the dork Bart Ehrman than you or OM1 on the history of the Levant.

 

[Overmind One]

I am more inclined to believe the dork Bart Ehrman than you or OM1 on the history of the Levant.

I'm not going to argue the point. We have removed that shit from GateFans! All viewpoints are welcome.

 

[Jim of WVa]

I'm not going to argue the point. We have removed that shit from GateFans! All viewpoints are welcome.

Not all.

 

[Overmind One]

Not all.

Be good...

 

[YJ02]

kind of lengthy, but is interesting

i don't think he mentioned aliens at all

-opening bit "over 10 million square miles of land sunken after last ice age" he dates to 21,000 yrs ago

 

[Gate_Boarder]

kind of lengthy, but is interesting

i don't think he mentioned aliens at all

-opening bit "over 10 million square miles of land sunken after last ice age" he dates to 21,000 yrs ago

It is very interesting to me to hear about Ptolomy being a very important character from the past.

If you watched Oliver Stone's version of "Alexander", you would of heard Anthony Hopkins voice some of his work.

So, Ptolemy had access to the Alexandrian Library, saving a whole lot of maps and stashing them away, and now that we have them we realize that the wonders of the ancient world could be vastly different then what some might believe. Not to mention that Alexander could of gotten to the Sphinx ahead of everyone else and built a library around the papers found there.

Only to have the Romans allow the burning of said maps and papers - not for the good of course. Pity that.

During my BSG days there was at most two known Mayan settlements in eastern( Yucutan? ) Mexico. Now there are least 300 known cities or towns. According to a French-Canadian student he has plotted out these settlements and claims they are in fact similar to the ancient star systems that the Egyptians were fond of using.

A thousand points of light showing us where to find ancient lands as older Bush has been quoted to have said on a different subject of course.

 

[YJ02]

It is very interesting to me to hear about Ptolomy being a very important character from the past.

If you watched Oliver Stone's version of "Alexander", you would of heard Anthony Hopkins voice some of his work.

So, Ptolemy had access to the Alexandrian Library, saving a whole lot of maps and stashing them away, and now that we have them we realize that the wonders of the ancient world could be vastly different then what some might believe. Not to mention that Alexander could of gotten to the Sphinx ahead of everyone else and built a library around the papers found there.

Only to have the Romans allow the burning of said maps and papers - not for the good of course. Pity that.

During my BSG days there was at most two known Mayan settlements in eastern( Yucutan? ) Mexico. Now there are least 300 known cities or towns. According to a French-Canadian student he has plotted out these settlements and claims they are in fact similar to the ancient star systems that the Egyptians were fond of using.

A thousand points of light showing us where to find ancient lands as older Bush has been quoted to have said on a different subject of course.

as famous--or should be- is Claudius Ptolomy. Another Greek from Egypt who in about 150AD published his work GEOGRAPHY. In it he describes the shape of the earth, the layout of the continents (some argue he had info on the coastline of Antarctica-possibly obtained via the Alexandrian library from ancient Egyptian commissioned Phoenician explorations. that would not be a real stretch as we do know that an ancient pharaoh did commission a Phoenician fleet to circumnavigate Africa-successfully done)

he also set the new tone for greek-and roman-astronomy

https://www.ibiblio.org/expo/vatican.exhibit/exhibit/d-mathematics/Ptolemy_geo.html

 

[YJ02]

Only to have the Romans allow the burning of said maps and papers - not for the good of course

actually Caesar's fire was only the first and incomplete destruction. it suffered 3 more attacks-the last in the 600's by the muslim attack, before it was finally done in for good

Plutarch's history of the Caeserian-Pompeian war states that when Pompey was in a position to blockade in Caesar-using Caesar's own fleet, he ordered his fleet burned. the fire then spread to a portion of the Library- the original Ptolemaic museum.

i remember reading a passage in Plutarch that is a bit comical when envisioned. He states that after Caesar realized the fire had spread-and remember, Caesar styled himself a historian himself and was a great admirer of Alexander and the Greeks as well as the Egyptians- he order a portion of his men, himself included with his slave rowing a boat, to go out into the sea and pick up pieces of flying scrolls that the heat of the fire threw up into the air

the picture of seeing the would be dictator out in a rowboat plucking manuscripts and papyrus from the sea is an image well remembered

 

[YJ02]

i have said this before

the only reason i would love for a time machine-available to all of course- would be to go back and see these unk civilizations and the scope of their cultures

 

[Gate_Boarder]

Ptolemy 1 and Claudius Ptolemy, getting those guys mixed up. One of those guys came two hundred years after the other.

I think those maps came by way of other people. I like how in your movie that 21,000 years ago the Tigris and Euphrates were just one massive river and there was no, was it, Persian Sea.

Oh, I thought the Library burnt down when the child-king Ptolomy Philadelphius or whatever had his men surround Alexandria to besiege Ceasar. Long movie, bad facts possibly.

 

[YJ02]

Ptolomy Philadelphius or whatever had his men surround Alexandria to besiege Ceasar

i believe that was when part of the city near the royal compound was burned

actually, the hbo series rome does a pretty good job with a synopsis of these events without amalgamating or compressing them too much

 

[YJ02]

I think those maps came by way of other people.

yes

C Ptol. mainly reproduced and somewhat improved old maps and collected them in what we would call an atlas

nearly all of the coastline knowledge came from phoenician, egyptian and greek seamen and the charts they made

 

[YJ02]

just putting this up- with a NEUTRAL opinion on it other then it is an interesting idea. another way to look at the evidence already known