Apple's new key design is comical...

[Overmind One]

It’s more the nature of the T2 and the Secure Enclave than any tribal thing they may want I think. The T2 is a separate processor and it runs off the Secure Enclave which is separate memory physically not accessible from the main CPU or RAM. It’s also. Used on iPhones and iPads, and is where Apple stashes sensitive encrypted info like biometrics and Apple Pay information. And both require a very specific custom motherboard with the parts all matched to the T2, hence the restriction.

I think the part where they aim to be “cool” is where this comes from more, as really no other laptop has implemented this sort of hardware based security and one could argue it is over the top.

It isn't just the chip hurting Apple. It's the entire persona of Apple, it's business ethic, it's image and especially the price to value ratio. A notchless, thin bezel smartphone with dual cameras on the back and a low power front facing camera is not a new iPhone, it's an older Android phone at less than 1/4 the price of the latest iPhone X. It is seen as dumb to buy Apple now. Not a single Apple product can claim to be the best in class. Not one, including build quality. What Apple has left and is worth a lot, is cachet. As soon as that becomes dull, Apple is done unless they move into a new market. The numbers don't lie: iPhone is becoming passe. The Macbook Pro is a beautiful laptop, but at $3000, you can do better in power and equal in design with a Microsoft Surface or a myriad of high end PC laptops. All of which will gladly accept Mini DVI, USB-C and standard USB, and will also have a standard mic and headphone jack. And you will be able to take them to a myriad of places to have them serviced when they need it, as well as be able to do a lot of the work yourself if you are so inclined.

Apple sucks every which way you look at it. The Loyalists keep it alive. BTW, Apple fell behind Walmart and Amazon for the top 3 most valuable companies. Amazon is 1st, then Walmart, then Apple.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Apple rocks! They make the best most solid hardware. The iphone is easy to use and I can answer my calls from any one of my apple devices. The latest iphone is over a grand and people still lined up to buy it.

 

[Quetesh]

The company got hit with a hug tax bill after skirting the taxes with a legal loophole for years, then instead of eating it as the billion dollar company morally should have, they tried to push the cost onto their consumer, yes, their own fans, by hiking the prices of their already insanely expensive desktops and notebooks even higher and after that got really greedy and tried to double up on their iPhone 8 and X as two launches. All of which massively backfired on them, and sent many former this company's lovers into the open arms of their competitors.

Then,when that sank they looked to their own workforce and fraked a ton of them over.
I no longer even care what happens to the company anymore. Frak the company.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Apple rules!

 

[Quetesh]

Apple rocks! They make the best most solid hardware. The iphone is easy to use and I can answer my calls from any one of my apple devices. The latest iphone is over a grand and people still lined up to buy it.

For the iPhone 7, people lined up and stayed in line and fought for the phone for 6 months after it was released. They called and cursed out the sales people for not having the phones for months, they were rabid for the phones.

For the phones released later, they zealots line up for a few weeks and then stock sits for MUCH longer than the company wants. If you look at the big picture, it is still a fail. The feeling on the sales floor for the later phones was that of a Friday night at Bingo of momentum compared to the Frat Party on Acid in Times Square that the iPhone 7 and previous phones were.

 

[Twalet Brash]

Apple got hit with a hug tax bill after skirting the taxes with a legal loophole for years, then instead of eating it as the billion dollar company morally should have, they tried to push the cost onto their consumer,

Good grief, so much misinformation.

They didn't "skirt the taxes with a legal loophole". They were legally set up in Ireland as an Irish corporation under Irish tax law, which had a 10% flat tax. Members of the EU retain their sovereign right over national taxation and are free to legislate their own tax rates. The EU has no such rules that states "A foreign corporation coming into he EU must set up shop in the highest taxed jurisdiction to do business in within the EU". Apple was singled out because the EU saw their massive revenue and were frothing at the mouth to get their piece of that pie. In fact, the case wasn't even raised by the EU Commissioner for Taxation, rather, by the EU Commissioner for Competition.

The EU is taking a gamble by challenging a member nation's sovereign right to national tax matters, claiming Apple was granted an undue tax benefit of around €13 billion. The ruling is currently under appeal, meaning Apple has not yet paid a single penny extra, thus they have not "tried to push the cost onto their consumer" because that cost does not yet exist.

The problem is not Apple setting up shop in Ireland but that Ireland has the sovereign right to its national tax policy. Whether Apple is morally right or wrong is outside the scope of this argument but the EU is treading dangerous waters and risking yet another reason for members to leave.

 

[Quetesh]

Good grief, so much misinformation.

They didn't "skirt the taxes with a legal loophole". They were legally set up in Ireland as an Irish corporation under Irish tax law, which had a 10% flat tax. Members of the EU retain their sovereign right over national taxation and are free to legislate their own tax rates. The EU has no such rules that states "A foreign corporation coming into he EU must set up shop in the highest taxed jurisdiction to do business in within the EU". The company was singled out because the EU saw their massive revenue and were frothing at the mouth to get their piece of that pie. In fact, the case wasn't even raised by the EU Commissioner for Taxation, rather, by the EU Commissioner for Competition.

The EU is taking a gamble by challenging a member nation's sovereign right to national tax matters, claiming the company was granted an undue tax benefit of around €13 billion. The ruling is currently under appeal, meaning Apple has not yet paid a single penny extra, thus they have not "tried to push the cost onto their consumer" because that cost does not yet exist.

The problem is not the company setting up shop in Ireland but that Ireland has the sovereign right to its national tax policy. Whether the company is morally right or wrong is outside the scope of this argument but the EU is treading dangerous waters and risking yet another reason for members to leave.

LOL, I live in NI in the UK and worked for this company in Sales, Service and Fraud in management. I am not debating the morality of them being based in Ireland but their decision to hike their prices ( which puts the costs directly on the consumer ) after the EU initial ruling. Unless Ireland wants to go all Brexit they have to abide by the EU's Commission. The UK has found out the hard way that crying about your sovereign nation right's on one side of your mouth and screaming about losing the EU Bank Passport and Free Trade agreement does not work. It's a mess over here right now. You take the good with the bad, or get out and deal with the repercussions. There are true huge problems within the EU, but regardless, The company is facing a massive bill. So, Yay for the company if they don't have to pay from an appeal, but either way, they should not have pushed the cost to their consumers.

And Yes, the company did indeed push up their prices right after the initial ruling because whether they have paid it or not, they very likely will be paying it. This alone causes their stock price to fail and a loss of investment. When you are the size of this company, you don't have to pay the bill to lose millions. If your major stakeholders lose confidence in your future earnings, your forecast analysis will be adjusted, formulas for discounted cash flows will now need to reflect the new interest rates they can truly expect to obtain from the banks, will follow. These have to be adjusted according to corporate governance laws to reflect the true values, so you can't just hope you don't have to pay it. Once the company adjusts these values any future projects are reevaluated, and it they can't prove their is not a projected loss, they are rejected by the board of directors and so more future profits can be affected. I could go on, but needless to say, this has already affected the company in a major way.

In the UK market, they raised the costs of desktops, notebooks and services contact by 25% in one day, and our sales team lost a ton of quoted orders for our business consumers. We were then advised by corporate to play down the extent of any tax law changes to our consumers. This is why I cry no tears for the company. They screwed the goose by raising the prices again for the 8 and X, which was a bust, and then they fired hundreds of employees in the Ireland.

 

[Twalet Brash]

LOL, I live in NI in the UK and worked for this company in Sales, Service and Fraud in management. I am not debating the morality of them being based in Ireland but their decision to hike their prices ( which puts the costs directly on the consumer ) after the EU initial ruling.

That's attributed to free market and market tolerance much in the same way petrol companies play with fuel prices. They may have used it as an opportunity to raise prices but, as the case is still in appeal, there is no additional tax cost to bear, thus Apple has not yet lost any money anywhere related to that particular case.

Let me give you another, real world example of what I mean. When Japan, the third largest importer of oil (at that time), was hit by that mega tsunami, the country was crippled and oil prices shot up.

To put it more simply, Japan stopped importing oil for a while, which instantly increased supply, not demand. The price of oil, however, went up because of consumer stupidity and not necessity.

That's Apple and your EU price hikes.

At the moment, Apple has put that money into escrow:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...n-from-apple-over-alleged-state-aid-1.3633191

You'll also note the Irish government disagrees with the EU commissions position.

Unless Ireland wants to go all Brexit they have to abide by the EU's Commission.

Except the EU Commission may be in violation of its own rules, thus the appeal.

The UK has found out the hard way that crying about your sovereign nation right's on one side of your mouth and screaming about losing the EU Bank Passport and Free Trade agreement does not work. It's a mess over here right now.

Agreed. Seems polls are showing the general population is overwhelmingly not in favor of leaving the EU but May refuses to hold a second referendum knowing she would lose. Many who voted to leave were under the impression the referendum was non-binding and voted to leave in protest and to send a message. Those people feel screwed by the promise of a non-binding vote.

You take the good with the bad, or get out and deal with the repercussions. There are true huge problems within the EU, but regardless, Apple is facing a massive bill. So, Yay for Apple if they don't have to pay from an appeal, but either way, they should not have pushed the cost to their consumers.

And Yes, the company did indeed push up their prices right after the initial ruling because whether they have paid it or not, they very likely will be paying it. This alone causes their stock price to fail and a loss of investment. When you are the size of Apple, you don't have to pay the bill to lose millions. If your major stakeholders lose confidence in your future earnings, your forecast analysis will be adjusted, formulas for discounted cash flows will now need to reflect the new interest rates they can truly expect to obtain from the banks, will follow. These have to be adjusted according to corporate governance laws to reflect the true values, so you can't just hope you don't have to pay it. Once the company adjusts these values any future projects are reevaluated, and it they can't prove their is not a projected loss, they are rejected by the board of directors and so more future profits can be affected. I could go on, but needless to say, this has already affected the company in a major way.

In the UK market, they raised the costs of desktops, notebooks and services contact by 25% in one day, and our sales team lost a ton of quoted orders for our business consumers. We were then advised by corporate to play down the extent of any tax law changes to our consumers. This is why I cry no tears for the company. They screwed the goose by raising the prices again for the 8 and X, which was a bust, and then they fired hundreds of employees in the Ireland.

Investor confidence wasn't that impacted by the EU ruling at the time given Apple's enormous wealth and cash position. If anything, it's more likely Apple seized on an opportunity.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Apple still rulez!

 

[Overmind One]

Apple rules!

Do they? If only they did. Android rules the mobile OS. Android rules the entire smartphone market by more than two to one vs Apple. PCs rule the laptop and desktop market. Windows rules Enterprise and small business computing and networking markets. Apple makes money by trickery, not prowess or innovation.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Do they? If only they did. Android rules the mobile OS. Android rules the entire smartphone market by more than two to one vs Apple. PCs rule the laptop and desktop market. Windows rules Enterprise and small business computing and networking markets. Apple makes money by trickery, not prowess or innovation.

Maybe more android when you combine all the different phone makers but no one single phone maker tops apple on numbers.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Maybe more android when you combine all the different phone makers but no one single phone maker tops apple on numbers.

Apparently not true.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...rket-as-chinese-brands-close-in/#2fec7b27697d

 

[Joelist]

That's actually a decent article because it doesn't just spit numbers out but also contexts them. Samsung leads but its lead is built on sales in the low end. Apple made a deliberate decision not to compete in the low end markets on either mobile devices or computers. Even the cheapest iPhone is more in the midrange price band and the others in the high end brackets. Their focus is delivering a high end experience for a more profitable price - and it shows as while they don't lead in volume of units they lead in profit.

Also, the other area Apple is aiming for is corporations - particularly corporations that require higher security. And with the demise of Blackberry they have an opening to move in. This is why their public focus for a while has been privacy and also why they (unlike anyone else) are building physical hardware based security into their devices. Read up on Secure Enclave and the T2 chip and then look at their push into corporations that need higher security and it comes together.

 

[Overmind One]

Maybe more android when you combine all the different phone makers but no one single phone maker tops apple on numbers.

Not even close to true. Apple's low volume numbers are so disturbing to investors that the company has stopped publishing them as of 2nd QTR 2018. And their one sales champ, the iPhone, has slowed dramatically in sales numbers, but the price has passed the $1000.00 mark for the X (which isn't selling).

That's actually a decent article because it doesn't just spit numbers out but also contexts them. Samsung leads but its lead is built on sales in the low end. Apple made a deliberate decision not to compete in the low end markets on either mobile devices or computers. Even the cheapest iPhone is more in the midrange price band and the others in the high end brackets. Their focus is delivering a high end experience for a more profitable price - and it shows as while they don't lead in volume of units they lead in profit.

Also, the other area Apple is aiming for is corporations - particularly corporations that require higher security. And with the demise of Blackberry they have an opening to move in. This is why their public focus for a while has been privacy and also why they (unlike anyone else) are building physical hardware based security into their devices. Read up on Secure Enclave and the T2 chip and then look at their push into corporations that need higher security and it comes together.

Bolded is exactly true. "Their focus is delivering a high end experience for a more profitable price". That does not translate to high end performance, power, battery life, screen resolution, features or even build quality. Samsung bests them in all those categories, and so does Huawei and Motorola. But the EXPERIENCE is high end. To me, it's like this:

Apple - Presentation is everything. The actual product is not the top priority. The salmon was frozen, the mashed potatoes came from a box. Apple products are made in China using cheap labor and outsourced parts which come from Samsung and others: https://www.investopedia.com/articl...0-major-companies-tied-apple-supply-chain.asp

Everyone else - That salmon is locally sourced and not frozen, the fries were hand cut and cooked from locally sourced potatoes. Features, power, price are all balanced and priced to be accessible to as many people as can afford the products. Android innovates, Samsung introduces new features, and other manufacturers develop larger screens and more functionality in the phone. Customer satisfaction is the top priority because the repeat business is important.

Apple is a poseur's brand. I can easily afford anything they make, but I personally would not want to be caught dead purchasing anything from an Apple store.

Apple cannot sustain it's cachet much longer.

Don't be this guy!

 

[Hugh Jass]

That's actually a decent article because it doesn't just spit numbers out but also contexts them. Samsung leads but its lead is built on sales in the low end. Apple made a deliberate decision not to compete in the low end markets on either mobile devices or computers. Even the cheapest iPhone is more in the midrange price band and the others in the high end brackets. Their focus is delivering a high end experience for a more profitable price - and it shows as while they don't lead in volume of units they lead in profit.

Also, the other area Apple is aiming for is corporations - particularly corporations that require higher security. And with the demise of Blackberry they have an opening to move in. This is why their public focus for a while has been privacy and also why they (unlike anyone else) are building physical hardware based security into their devices. Read up on Secure Enclave and the T2 chip and then look at their push into corporations that need higher security and it comes together.

Agree! Apple totally rulez!

 

[Hugh Jass]

Not even close to true. Apple's low volume numbers are so disturbing to investors that the company has stopped publishing them as of 2nd QTR 2018. And their one sales champ, the iPhone, has slowed dramatically in sales numbers, but the price has passed the $1000.00 mark for the X (which isn't selling).



Bolded is exactly true. "Their focus is delivering a high end experience for a more profitable price". That does not translate to high end performance, power, battery life, screen resolution, features or even build quality. Samsung bests them in all those categories, and so does Huawei and Motorola. But the EXPERIENCE is high end. To me, it's like this:

Apple - Presentation is everything. The actual product is not the top priority. The salmon was frozen, the mashed potatoes came from a box. Apple products are made in China using cheap labor and outsourced parts which come from Samsung and others: https://www.investopedia.com/articl...0-major-companies-tied-apple-supply-chain.asp

View attachment 34901

Everyone else - That salmon is locally sourced and not frozen, the fries were hand cut and cooked from locally sourced potatoes. Features, power, price are all balanced and priced to be accessible to as many people as can afford the products. Android innovates, Samsung introduces new features, and other manufacturers develop larger screens and more functionality in the phone. Customer satisfaction is the top priority because the repeat business is important.

View attachment 34902

Apple is a poseur's brand. I can easily afford anything they make, but I personally would not want to be caught dead purchasing anything from an Apple store.

Apple cannot sustain it's cachet much longer.

Don't be this guy!

I don't know anything about salmon and potatoes but Joeline showed an article that totally says Apple rulez the top end!