Star Trek thoughts - a thread for discussion (hopefully)...

[Graybrew1]

There's a difference between a show having an opinion and a show telling you what to think. Trek has always presented opinions on general societal issues but when it does it right the opinion is in the background. The societal issue is a backdrop to the immediate story. And in all your examples it was exactly that. TNG sad to say went a different route, for example in several episodes it outright denigrated the idea of monogamous marriage (this in particular was done with discussions between Troi and her mother).

And DS9 is my least favorite also - like I said the feel is wrong, the mood is wrong and it was the first Trek with lots of shipping going on.

I dsagree. TOS was just as guilty, they just hid it more. Preaching is preaching.

 

[Rac80]

I read it - IMHO they don't know what they are talking about. Somewhere out there on the web are some clips of Bujold as Janeway in the pre-production shoots. She was beyond horrible. Mulgrew was perfect for the part. And VOY was a lot better than that forum wants to think.

I have seen those too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0 her voice was too soft, she didn't have the right presence to be a authority figure. she was a good damsel in distress (ANne of a Thousand days or Coma) but not fit for the captain's chair!

 

[Illiterati]

I like the direction the series has gone with the latest movie.

Yes, it needed a reboot of sorts (and I generally HATE reboots), so get it back to where it needed to be.

It's rather fun to watch them all at a younger point in their lives as they get to know one another. It was established very early on in the history of the franchise that the crew of the original USS Enterprise (NCC 1701) was the best crew Starfleet ever had.

At least we shouldn't be quite so prone to wild expressions of scary polyester in this iteration of the series.

May they indeed live long and prosper.

 

[Illiterati]

I dsagree. TOS was just as guilty, they just hid it more. Preaching is preaching.

TOS took chances with the preaching that they DID do, however...they were addressing things that were happening at that moment in time. Racial equality, interracial kisses (I ignore the "he shouldn't have fought it" garbage -- while Kirk was a dog, it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to pull a kiss on one of his crewmembers without an invitation -- and even HE knew that), etc.

With the racial equality episode, it was all about what side of the body each color was on -- one of Frank Gorshin's better opportunities to chew the scenery, beyond his turn as The Riddler on tv's Batman.

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

I read it - IMHO they don't know what they are talking about. Somewhere out there on the web are some clips of Bujold as Janeway in the pre-production shoots. She was beyond horrible. Mulgrew was perfect for the part. And VOY was a lot better than that forum wants to think.

I don't think they were saying that Bujold was better than Mulgrew. It's just an alternate history speculation of what might have happened if she'd stayed on longer. Unless I just completely misinterpreted your post, and in that case never mind.

I agree it's not the best written of TLs but it's pretty hard to find any really good and well written pop culture related alternate history timelines. Though granted this one does a pretty decent job, with some nice changes to both TOS (including a longer run) and Doctor Who, as well as several other shows.
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=220395

As for Voyager, I found it to be pretty watchable tv. Nothing really great in there (except for Year of Hell, but then they had to go and retcon that which really pissed me off), but still a watchable sci fi show.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Interesting thoughts.

You have a higher opinion of DS9 than I do. To me it was the start of Trek running off the rails because it got away from the core values of Trek. It became dark, moody and was the first Trek to feature lots of "shipping".

It's not so much that I have an especially "high" opinion of DS9 (I liked it, but it is not my favorite trek, even though I really enjoyed the lst 2 seasons), it's just that the premise was established to be very different from TOS/TNG, and it was handled better (IMO) than the shift from SG-1/SGA to SGU.

To me (and its my opinion), Trek does not work when it is consistently dark. It also cannot be moody or foreboding or focus too much on relationships and work. Trek needs to be optimistic at its core - optimistic about life overall, about humanity and about its characters. Where it addresses characters it needs to emphasize their strengths and how they overcome their weaknesses. And it needs to emphasize friendship, honor, duty and above all it has to exude the sense of wonder.

See, this is the "trek effect" in full force. As much as I love near all things trek, the mindset of "trek must be XYZ to work", I simply cannot agree with. I'm not saying your opinion is "wrong" mind you Joe, just that it does not apply to *my* perception of trek, thats all.

 

[Joelist]

Nice points. We may disagree in part but I compliment you on the thought behind them and the presentation.

I will note that my general take on the "core values" of trek is one that is held by the majority of Trekkies. This explains in part how the franchise managed to alienate its fans and why the response to Trek 09 was so positive.

 

[Illiterati]

Nice points. We may disagree in part but I compliment you on the thought behind them and the presentation.

I will note that my general take on the "core values" of trek is one that is held by the majority of Trekkies. This explains in part how the franchise managed to alienate its fans and why the response to Trek 09 was so positive.

TrekkERS, my dear sir.

 

[Joelist]

TrekkERS, my dear sir.

Please forigve me!!!!! Please!!!! PLEASE!!!!!

:psycho:
:anubis-pancarte01:

 

[Overmind One]

It's not so much that I have an especially "high" opinion of DS9 (I liked it, but it is not my favorite trek, even though I really enjoyed the lst 2 seasons), it's just that the premise was established to be very different from TOS/TNG, and it was handled better (IMO) than the shift from SG-1/SGA to SGU.


See, this is the "trek effect" in full force. As much as I love near all things trek, the mindset of "trek must be XYZ to work", I simply cannot agree with. I'm not saying your opinion is "wrong" mind you Joe, just that it does not apply to *my* perception of trek, thats all.

DS9 changed forever my perceptions of Trek. Suddenly, the foundation that was the Federation universe and all of its locales and aliens started out as an established fabric upon which the stories unfolded. We had all of the familiar alien races like the Klingons and Romulans and Andorians and the Bajorans from TNG. We had a new quadrant to work with, and we even got a ship to travel with later. We got real interpersonal drama, and we got social mirroring in the Bajoran and Cardassian cultures. Overall, I think DS9 was Trek's most ambitious show ever. Interesting to know that Paramount was sued by Straczynski for ripping off Babylon 5's premise and basic story.

 

[Illiterati]

Please forigve me!!!!! Please!!!! PLEASE!!!!!

:psycho:
:anubis-pancarte01:

Lol. Been to too many fan conventions to not have learned that one. Hit my first ComicCon at age 18. It's been 30 years since then.

Gawd! Where has the time gone?

 

[Rac80]

Nice points. We may disagree in part but I compliment you on the thought behind them and the presentation.

I will note that my general take on the "core values" of trek is one that is held by the majority of Trekkies. This explains in part how the franchise managed to alienate its fans and why the response to Trek 09 was so positive.

I consider myself a trekkie...the pretentious sound of trekkers is too much for humble lil old me!

 

[Rac80]

an ounce of pretension is worth a pound of manure!

Nice points. We may disagree in part but I compliment you on the thought behind them and the presentation.

I will note that my general take on the "core values" of trek is one that is held by the majority of Trekkies. This explains in part how the franchise managed to alienate its fans and why the response to Trek 09 was so positive.

I consider myself a trekkie...the pretentious sound of trekkers is too much for humble lil old me! Us trekkies are why we oot TNG, VOY, DS9, and ENT as well as the original movies and now the reboot ! over all i consider (MOST) trek to be quality programming and worth my time.