Who's responsible for the end of Stargate?

[Mr. A]

Sad? Angry? Frustrated? Given up?
Beginning tomorrow there will be no more new Stargate episodes or movies in the foreseeable future. Brad Wright and Joe Mallozzi have said so, and unless there are some very secret negotiations going on at MGM, the studio is also giving that impression.
So after some 17 years of success some even said would rival Star Trek, the Stargate franchise comes to a screeching halt.
Who do you think is to blame for this? Why?
Did Syfy not promote the show enough or correctly?
Did Syfy put the show in the right time slot or move it around too much?
Did the producers risk too much with this experiment?
Is the ratings measuring system broken?
Is sci-fi simply not attractive for new viewers?


PS: Please be civil and respect other members' right to have an opinion.

 

[shavedape]

I think a very solid argument could be made that it's the fault of TPTB. The ratings for SG-1 and SGA prove that the Stargate concept was doing well enough. All signs point to SGU -- the creation of BW -- as being the reason the concept is now defunct. It bears all the blame and consequently TPTB do also. The numbers don't lie.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

I blame myself.
I should have watched it live instead of downloading it.
That would have made the difference.
Shame on me!

 

[Graybrew1]

I blame the greedy PTB that were not happy enough with the ratings of SGA and wanted more. Looks, like they were WRONG.

 

[shavedape]

I blame myself.
I should have watched it live instead of downloading it.
That would have made the difference.
Shame on me!

As much as we'd all love to blame you for this the truth is that it's someone else's fault. You can sleep soundly now...well, maybe you can't. Oh well.

 

[Overmind One]

I acknowledge that will be no Stargate in the immediate future, but as far as "foreseeable future", I dont give a shred of credibility to TPTW. Neither Joe Mallozzi or Brad Wright would know if or when Stargate is coming back. Going to them for such info is like asking the secretary that just got fired if the new secretary will do a good job. They are not the "go to guys" for Stargate anymore. For all we know, the new showrunners have already been identified and are making prep for a new reboot. We just dont know. But what I do know is that Joe and Brad DONT know.

 

[Lilith]

TPTB are to given all the credit with the demise of the Stargate franchise. It became a vehicle to promote their ego's. They didn't need us until they needed us and by then it was too late. All the excuses about not knowing when it was on or what time is just an example of how distracted the audience that they directed their efforts towards obtaining are. The older audience remembers when you had to pay attention when programs were coming on. Prior to TV guides at your fingertips we had to use our memory in order to watch a program. Today's tv's have auto tune so it automatically changes the channel when you program your remote. Clearly they were relying on the causal viewer for their audience since they were accutely aware that the old fans would not migrate to the new show. They took the risk and added insult to injury with their snarky remarks. What they forgot is that we are ones with the money and the consistent viewing habits that could have made or break their show. We all know how well their plan worked out. They forgot that what they were promoting was basically a product that had previously been embraced by a large segment of the viewing public. Due to the insults, I have concluded that I have the patience of JOB and I'm willing to wait until hell freezes over for a new stargate without the past TPTB involved.

 

[Graybrew1]

TPTB are to given all the credit with the demise of the Stargate franchise. It became a vehicle to promote their ego's. They didn't need us until they needed us and by then it was too late. All the excuses about not knowing when it was on or what time is just an example of how distracted the audience that they directed their efforts towards obtaining are. The older audience remembers when you had to pay attention when programs were coming on. Prior to TV guides at your fingertips we had to use our memory in order to watch a program. Today's tv's have auto tune so it automatically changes the channel when you program your remote. Clearly they were relying on the causal viewer for their audience since they were accutely aware that the old fans would not migrate to the new show. They took the risk and added insult to injury with their snarky remarks. What they forgot is that we are ones with the money and the consistent viewing habits that could have made or break their show. We all know how well their plan worked out. They forgot that what they were promoting was basically a product that had previously been embraced by a large segment of the viewing public. Due to the insults, I have concluded that I have the patience of JOB and I'm willing to wait until hell freezes over for a new stargate without the past TPTB involved.

That is funny, I like that line, I must remember it. Green for you.

 

[Mr. A]

While I do agree with most of what has been written here, the truth is IMO that most of the items on the poll share some degree of blame.

For example, the viewers didn't care enough to watch live, they preferred reality shows like DWTS among others.
Also the possibility of downloading episodes did reduce the viewership ratings - not that SGU was more affected than other series, but this is a problem with our TV industry. SGU and SGA would have done much better if other venues of watching would bring the revenues necessary to finance scripted science-fiction shows. (Briangate has argued this here a couple of times)
While most did, some fans of the older series refused to watch SGU no matter what. Especially after the producers started dissing fans and their own shows. How much of those there were and were they numerous enough to affect ratings? I don't know...

 

[Graybrew1]

Wouldn't it have been a moot point if they never took SGA off the air? If they had waited to put SGU on the air for another couple of seasons. The show might have been better written... who knows. But if they did not yank SGA off, then we wouldn't even be talking about this right?

 

[YoshiKart64]

Went for the viewers (who directly or not did cause Stargate to end by not watching it) and also MGM and Syfy.

I don't think Brad would have ended SGA given the choice; one of the parties thought a new show would make more money. Atlantis in its fifth season was probably becoming less profitable and Universe looked to be a big draw. I mean it is fairly odd that Atlantis got cut when it reached 100 episodes - the perfect time to move on money wise. Alas that blew up in their faces and now Atlantis and Universe have suffered as a result. And honestly I think the producers have been given a lot of hassle over decisions others made - I'd hope that more truths are revealed as I think theres a lot more blame to be placed elsewhere.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

So far nobody has blamed the Nielsen ratings system, downloads or angry SG-fans in the poll.
Although it is so far only a small sample, the data is looking quite reliable to me.

 

[Overmind One]

This.

TPTB are to given all the credit with the demise of the Stargate franchise. It became a vehicle to promote their ego's. They didn't need us until they needed us and by then it was too late. All the excuses about not knowing when it was on or what time is just an example of how distracted the audience that they directed their efforts towards obtaining are. The older audience remembers when you had to pay attention when programs were coming on.

Also, the older audiences KNOW what sort of show they want to watch. You dont replace a show like Atlantis with a show like SGU. You can even replace a show like Atlantis with a show like Firefly or like Sanctuary. SGU was the wrong genre directed at the wrong audience with a wrong name. TPTB delivered a serialized drama set in space, but their mistake was not that so much as it was calling it Stargate and shoving it out there as the "new Stargate". That wasnt going to fly or be accepted any more than a 4-door Corvette.

Prior to TV guides at your fingertips we had to use our memory in order to watch a program. Today's tv's have auto tune so it automatically changes the channel when you program your remote. Clearly they were relying on the causal viewer for their audience since they were accutely aware that the old fans would not migrate to the new show. They took the risk and added insult to injury with their snarky remarks. What they forgot is that we are ones with the money and the consistent viewing habits that could have made or break their show. We all know how well their plan worked out. They forgot that what they were promoting was basically a product that had previously been embraced by a large segment of the viewing public. Due to the insults, I have concluded that I have the patience of JOB and I'm willing to wait until hell freezes over for a new stargate without the past TPTB involved.

Me too! I am willing to wait until my next life as the President of Lunar Colony One for REAL Stargate. I dont want "new Stargate". I want an updated version of the familiar formula:

• Stargate on earth is the center of the show
• Team of heroes are our regular characters
• Various enemies on the other side of the Stargate trying to destroy Humanity (or kill our heroes)
• Humor (nor slapstick)
• Episodic with a bit of serialization once or twice a half season.

Nobody asked for more sex, or romantic entanglements which become the center of an episode or an arc. Nobody asked for music montages or young skanks or broom closet scenes. Nobody asked for backstory, and Stargate is NOT about a spaceship. Lets not EVER go there again.

 

[shavedape]

"Blame is better to give than receive"

While I do agree with most of what has been written here, the truth is IMO that most of the items on the poll share some degree of blame.

For example, the viewers didn't care enough to watch live, they preferred reality shows like DWTS among others.
Also the possibility of downloading episodes did reduce the viewership ratings - not that SGU was more affected than other series, but this is a problem with our TV industry. SGU and SGA would have done much better if other venues of watching would bring the revenues necessary to finance scripted science-fiction shows. (Briangate has argued this here a couple of times)

You sort of cancel out your own point here by admitting that other avenues of viewing shows affects all shows, not just SGU, so it's something of a moot point really. I don't see how SGU was affected more by downloading, etc. than other shows so I don't see how this can really be used to "blame" anyone.

While most did, some fans of the older series refused to watch SGU no matter what. Especially after the producers started dissing fans and their own shows. How much of those there were and were they numerous enough to affect ratings? I don't know...

I don't see how one can be blamed for not watching a show. If you do please edify me. The onus is on the producers to produce a show that will interest viewers. I don't see how anyone can be blamed for not liking a show even if they watched previous incarnations of the concept. That's like blaming me for not liking "Top Design" when I have liked "Top Chef" in the past. They are essentially the same formula (which SGU wasn't, comparatively, btw) but I didn't care for "Top Design". So how is it that I have to share even one iota of the blame for the lower ratings of "Top Design"? That doesn't make sense.

Here's another bad analogy to ponder: I love tomato sauce but I loathe tomato juice. Am I to be blamed (no matter how small that percentage of blame is) for the lower sales of tomato juice because I don't like it?

 

[mzzz]

So far nobody has blamed the Nielsen ratings system, downloads or angry SG-fans in the poll.
Although it is so far only a small sample, the data is looking quite reliable to me.

aw hell, I'll blame them for you if you want. Down with the nielsen system that most people choose to belittle without knowing anything about statistics, down with all those downloads even though in comparison sgu's download numbers would be far less than all the other shows which would hurt it more than help it if downloads were counted, and down with those sg-fans for wanting themes and overtones of the previous successful stargates that had garnered a wide fanbase across the globe.

 

[Overmind One]

Im surprised at your vote.

Went for the viewers (who directly or not did cause Stargate to end by not watching it) and also MGM and Syfy.

I don't think Brad would have ended SGA given the choice; one of the parties thought a new show would make more money. Atlantis in its fifth season was probably becoming less profitable and Universe looked to be a big draw. I mean it is fairly odd that Atlantis got cut when it reached 100 episodes - the perfect time to move on money wise. Alas that blew up in their faces and now Atlantis and Universe have suffered as a result. And honestly I think the producers have been given a lot of hassle over decisions others made - I'd hope that more truths are revealed as I think theres a lot more blame to be placed elsewhere.

The viewers? In a very real sense, you are absolutely correct. If viewers had watched the show it would still be on the air. But when looking for FAULT, is it really the viewers? Unlike TPTB, the viewers did not have an active choice. As passive recipients, they rejected what was offered. But TPTB had the choices. They CHOSE to create Stargate Universe, and they CHOSE not to drastically change it for season 2. They CHOSE to diss the fans and make statements to critics and finally blame the viewers for their own poor decisions.

I want answers too...but I certainly wont be looking to Brad or Mozz for them. I want to hear more from Engel and TPTB at MGM

 

[shavedape]

Went for the viewers (who directly or not did cause Stargate to end by not watching it)

This is a contradiction in terms. What "viewers" are you blaming for not watching SGU? Where does this mysterious group of people exist that were required to watch SGU??? So, just because people watched SG-1 and/or SGA they are automatically considered viewers for SGU??? Yeah, sure.

Sorry Yoshi but your statement makes no sense. You can't obligate people to watch a show simply because of their previous viewing habits. Just because I enjoyed watching BSG there's no way in hell that I'm to blame -- in any amount whatsoever -- for the demise of "Caprica", a show I did not watch.

Just because you (and Brad Wright) have expectations of other people those people can't be blamed for not living up to your expectations.

 

[Lilith]

That is funny, I like that line, I must remember it. Green for you.

Thanks, Graybrew, appreciate it. Sorry for knocking your show. I just have a thing against tptb disrespect for the old fans that just punches all my buttons.

 

[YoshiKart64]

The viewers? In a very real sense, you are absolutely correct. If viewers had watched the show it would still be on the air. But when looking for FAULT, is it really the viewers? Unlike TPTB, the viewers did not have an active choice. As passive recipients, they rejected what was offered. But TPTB had the choices. They CHOSE to create Stargate Universe, and they CHOSE not to drastically change it for season 2. They CHOSE to diss the fans and make statements to critics and finally blame the viewers for their own poor decisions.

I want answers too...but I certainly wont be looking to Brad or Mozz for them. I want to hear more from Engel and TPTB at MGM

That's all I meant by choosing them. In a very simple cause and effect situation, by not watching, the viewership at large are responsible. Of course its not as simple but there is an irony there that ultimately the most powerful group isn't united (how could they be after all) and as a result they all suffer when various shows fail. But I think you got it right as 'passively' responsible.

And yes the producers were not great at PR during the whole debacle but ultimately I believe Syfy and MGM made the money decisions. Stargate Universe would not have been the death knell of the franchise had it not been thrown out there at an inappropriate time and expected to replace the income of another show. That decision, not the creation of Universe, is what I think is to blame.

 

[Graybrew1]

Thanks, Graybrew, appreciate it. Sorry for knocking your show. I just have a thing against tptb disrespect for the old fans that just punches all my buttons.

I liked all the shows. I was not happy about losing SGA either.

I am extremly unhappy with the way SGU is turning out. I had "lower expectations" than most for SG. Just desperate to have it in any form. But it feels like the show was only half ready. I think the premise could have been amazing. I have yet to see what half the darn ship has to offer and not much more about the ancients.

This could have been a great show.

They could have used the stargates every week as a main part of the show. They could have met countless aliens with lots of nifty cool gadgets. They could have delved into the what the ancients were really like, what they were thinking and again a lot more nifty gadgets. They could have been countless battles and victories with lots of well written plotlines and twists. They could have...They could have....They could have. Well that was the problem with the show. They could have. But they did not. I still consider it a part of SG, but the worst of the bunch for sure. I am cringing to how they are going to leave this show. I predict all the boards will be on fire, with lots of angry people.