What about profitability?

[Mr. A]

I would expect that SGU lost money last season too. It pulled in a 1.6 which for a show costing about a million per episode more than SGA is pretty bad. Remember SGA delivered a 1.6 for a million less per episode than SGU.

Meanwhile Sanctuary troops along and delivers a 1.4 - 1.5 for a smaller budget than either show (about 1 to 1.25 million per episode or so). As such it turns a good profit. I expect Warehouse 13 and Eureka cost more per episode but they also pull in 3.3 to 3.4, so they will be very profitable.

According to Briangate of Syfy, W13 and Eureka are really cheap shows, which mean they are cheaper than SGA and consequently at least 1.5 million dollars lower than SGU per episode. So those shows are just raking in profits for Syfy!

Briangate also mentioned that SGU would survive if it maintained an average of 1.6 million viewers, which means it must be breaking even at somewhere around 1.3-1.4 million viewers. But, like any other product in a free economy, its measure of profitability isn't whether the show is on the plus side, but rather if it makes more profit than all other alternatives. Just like Syfy was willing to gamble by quitting a profitable SGA in favor of SGU (execs banging their heads on the tables right now), it is very likely they are wondering how long they can wait until they give Orion and Sherwood a chance.

 

[podbaydoors]

Lou Diamond Phillips salary has to be up there also. The sundry, lesser cast members don't get paid as much of course but there are so many of them that their collective salaries have to take a huge bite out of the budget too. There's a reason they had the four SG1 cast members do most of the heavy lifting in each episode and that's because of the cost of having more cast members. At the end of the day it's all about the money.

As for Rober Carlyle, well I think whatever they're paying him it's too much. He just doesn't bring any cache to the show at all in my opinion. If his agent was able to snag him a hefty salary then bully for him, but I don't know of anyone who goes out of their way to see anything he's in just for him. "The Full Monty" was ages ago and the last "big" thing he was in was a zombie sequel. Not exactly a big name star that attracts attention, but if the SGU folks were dumb enough to hire him at an exhorbitant rate then all the worse for them. Since his salary goes towards aiding the demise of this show (that should never have been made in the first place) then I'm quite happy with it. Same for Ming Na. "ER" was awhile ago and she really isn't exactly a draw, especially playing a bitchy, angry lesbian. Here's hoping TPTB give all these winners a hefty raise!

At first I didn't understand the casting for this show- don't mean to insult the Brits but Carlyle is mostly unknown here and if he's highly paid that was a huge mistake. Now I get it, though. They really, truly thought this was going to be award-winning high drama. People raved about the acting quality of the cast, but I couldn't see any commercially successful stars in the lot (with the possible exception of LDP). It didn't make sense to me, especially for the role of Young who they came right out and said was supposed to be a "Jack O'Neill with the edges still sharp." Well, okay- but they didn't cast an RDA who could draw in the fans and that was a problem. They thought their fine writing and cool new sets would save the day. For Stargate PTB to think they had the talent to create a successful space drama is just arrogance, plain and simple. They thought they could create "art" and commercial success would follow- like Mad Men or BSG. Why? Had they ever done that before? Not to my knowledge. They thought themselves too good for the formula of SG-1 and SGA and discounted the popularity of the actors, even though these "lantern-jawed heroes" were a commercial success. And Syfy bought their story because they so wanted another show like BSG that they overlooked the fact that RCC and BW could not deliver.

According to Briangate of Syfy, W13 and Eureka are really cheap shows, which mean they are cheaper than SGA and consequently at least 1.5 million dollars lower than SGU per episode. So those shows are just raking in profits for Syfy!

Right, because WH13 doesn't have any star-power and the sets are ordinary- they're meant to be- the story and the characters carry that show just like SG-A. I suspect that is the way scifi is going to have to go to survive, and I'm glad. Epic space battles and big, complicated sets are fine but they're costly and best left up to the movies where they can be done properly. I would trade all that for a clever story and likeable characters.

Re: Sanctuary

There's something to be said about the best revenge is living well :p

True! And my mom always said there are two ways to be rich- have more or want less. Guess which shows are which?

 

[iratecaller]

At first I didn't understand the casting for this show- don't mean to insult the Brits but Carlyle is mostly unknown here and if he's highly paid that was a huge mistake. Now I get it, though. They really, truly thought this was going to be award-winning high drama. People raved about the acting quality of the cast, but I couldn't see any commercially successful stars in the lot (with the possible exception of LDP).

...

True! And my mom always said there are two ways to be rich- have more or want less. Guess which shows are which?

RE: Tapping and Sanctuary -> She must be smiling all the way to the bank and feeling much safer in her role than Carlyle. podbaydoors, your mom is wise.


As far as salaries go, you're right, I wouldn't fall to my knees in awe over any of these guys. RDA sure, Shwartzeneger sure , but Carlyle??? LDP ??? Come on. Ok maybe not on my knees, but meeting RDA or a guys like Arnold, would be rather special.

If I was responsible for pitching SGU to the high rollers at the network, I would be worried.

So Mr. Wright, you brag about SGU being 1 million dollars more expensive per episode, but I'm not seing my million dollar's worth? Exactly WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE MONEY? Where's my money Brad??? Where are the DVD sales and the critial acclaim? Where are the fans Brad???

Josh, Tim, please "escort" Mr. Wrong to the back and show him that V is more than just a "letter of the alphabet". (Edit: To see some ratings charts no doubt.)

...

The following day, SGU is cancelled, salaries paid out at 50%, locks on the doors. Brad Wright enjoying some "down time" in Mexico.

Hey maybe this could be an original SGU script. LOL.

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

If the production costs of 1 million per episode for SGU are accurate then they are getting a lousy return on their investment. To break even per episode is not to make a profit, and a couple hundred thousand isn't that much of a profit. I'm sure many people here think it's a good amount to make in return for each episode but the reality is that it isn't. By the time the expenditures are all figured out to the penny that couple hundred thousand is even lower. DVD sales can help in the long run but let's face it, not many people will be buying SGU DVD's this Christmas.

 

[Joelist]

Media Savant's number is way low.

Remember it costs 1 million per episode more than SGA did. Also, remember that Sanctuary (which is lauded for its low production costs) clocks in at about 1 million per episode. I would guess SGU clocks in somewhere around 3 million per episode total.

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

Media Savant's number is way low.

Remember it costs 1 million per episode more than SGA did. Also, remember that Sanctuary (which is lauded for its low production costs) clocks in at about 1 million per episode. I would guess SGU clocks in somewhere around 3 million per episode total.

No offense but that seems rather high. At that rate SGU would have been canceled after (or within) the first season. That's just too much money to waste on something that isn't even breaking even.

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

It may appear high, but the prodcution costs are really very high. You can find links here:

http://forums.sgusucks.com/showthread.php/468-SGU-costs-more-to-produce-than-SGA!

The link you provided tends to prove my point as the consensus there leans. There's simply no way SGU could be averaging expenses of 3 million per episode. Using the ratings as a crude, simplistic equation, with 1 million viewers on average they are taking a 2 million dollar loss on average. It would mean they aren't breaking even. That's simply not sustainable fiscally, and the show has gone on much longer than numbers like that would allow.

Here's what I think the truth is, the numbers have been inflated via hyperbole to try and make SGU appear to be a quality cinematic production. The numbers we are throwing around here are not genuine as the proof of the ratings verses the continued run of this turd prove. There is no one, nowhere, no way that will allow expenditures to overtake profits by such a degree and for such a long period, hence there's no way SGU costs 3 million per episode.

I admit that isn't the most scientific of examples but I believe it to be valid nonetheless.

(Or, as Judge Judy says: "If it doesn't make sense it's not true." and the numbers related to the SGU budget don't make sense.)

 

[Joelist]

Just going by what we know.

Per Mallozzi SGU costs about 1 million more per episode than SGA.

We also know Sanctuary delivered a 20 episode season for about 1 million per.

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

Just going by what we know.

Per Mallozzi SGU costs about 1 million more per episode than SGA.

That begs the question of what SGA cost per episode.

 

[Hyndara]

That begs the question of what SGA cost per episode.

Sounds to me like a rule of proportion back in school.

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

Sounds to me like a rule of proportion back in school.

Well, if you're selling a product and expect to make a profit you need to know what your expenses are. Doesn't make sense to spend $5 to make laundry detergent that you then sell at $2.

 

[Rac80]

oh this is ART, what does a crass thing like profit matter? It's deep, it's gritty it's AWSUMMMM!​

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

oh this is ART, what does a crass thing like profit matter? It's deep, it's gritty it's AWSUMMMM!​

Yes, it is, until it comes time for someone to pay the bill.

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

I don't know what SGA cost. But if they were really comparing the budget of season 1 of SGA with SGU, you also shouldn't forget, that the US dollar was more worth then in comparison to the Canadian dollar. With other words, one US dollar was simply much more worth in the past and you could pay more for it in Canada.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/graphs/currencies.html#us

SGA started in 2004. 1 Canadian dollar was only 75 US cents worth. Now in 2010 there is nearly a parity between the Canadian and US dollar.

And because of inflation, the US dollar also lost some of its worth.

So I really doubt, that SGA's episode budget was 2 million per episode in season 1. Maybe 1 million. So I guess SGU costs around 2 million, maybe a little more, per episode. But of course a series gets more expensive over time. So a theoretical season 3 would be more expensive than the first season.

Right, the difference in cost for American productions verses north of the border in Canada was what made the Canadian film business boom in the 90's. I remember getting $1.50 Canadian to every $1 American when I vacationed there some years ago. Good deal I ate too much and drank too much and loved it! Incredible country.

I remember an interview with a producer from Star Trek NG who said that budgets tend to decrease in later seasons. The reason being is that the show is established and has a guaranteed return on investment. It's the first couple seasons that are crucial. She did say that even though they had a set per episode budget what they often did was film some cheaper episodes (you know those character stories that happen only on the ship with little special FX or location shots) and then they could apply the balance of that episodes budget to a different episode that they wanted to do some exciting stuff with. At the end of the day though there was a seasonal budget and that was it. It didn't fluctuate. It's obvious that many shows do it that way and I'm sure SGU is no exception.

So without knowing what their budget is seasonal/episodically and also how ratings are counted in terms of revenue generated then it's near impossible to know the truth of the situation. I admit I don't have hard numbers to back me up but I simply don't see SGU as being a 3 million per episode show. Again, I think what we're getting with statements such as "SGU has a budget of a million dollars over what SGA cost per episode" is simply hype from TPTB to make it appear that they are creating this amazing cinematic product. It's a lie, and TPTB clearly have no problem lying.

(And for 3 million per episode I could create a far better product than SGU in its current incarnation.)

 

[stclare]

Right, the difference in cost for American productions verses north of the border in Canada was what made the Canadian film business boom in the 90's. I remember getting $1.50 Canadian to every $1 American when I vacationed there some years ago. Good deal I ate too much and drank too much and loved it! Incredible country.

I remember an interview with a producer from Star Trek NG who said that budgets tend to decrease in later seasons. The reason being is that the show is established and has a guaranteed return on investment. It's the first couple seasons that are crucial. She did say that even though they had a set per episode budget what they often did was film some cheaper episodes (you know those character stories that happen only on the ship with little special FX or location shots) and then they could apply the balance of that episodes budget to a different episode that they wanted to do some exciting stuff with. At the end of the day though there was a seasonal budget and that was it. It didn't fluctuate. It's obvious that many shows do it that way and I'm sure SGU is no exception.

So without knowing what their budget is seasonal/episodically and also how ratings are counted in terms of revenue generated then it's near impossible to know the truth of the situation. I admit I don't have hard numbers to back me up but I simply don't see SGU as being a 3 million per episode show. Again, I think what we're getting with statements such as "SGU has a budget of a million dollars over what SGA cost per episode" is simply hype from TPTB to make it appear that they are creating this amazing cinematic product. It's a lie, and TPTB clearly have no problem lying.

(And for 3 million per episode I could create a far better product than SGU in its current incarnation.)

So could the Muppets

 

[Mr. A]

SGA cost somewhere around 1.5 - 2 million US$ per episode.

 

[Rac80]

There was a very successful German movie named "Keinohrhasen" in 2007. It had a budget of 4.2 million euro and made in the cinemas 74 million $ according to wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keinohrhasen

So you can really make a lot of money with a relative small budget, if you use it wisely.

then there is Dirty Dancing - cost approx. $6 million in 1987, grossed over $214 million...still sells around a million copies a year on DVD...gee I guarantee sgpoo would love some of that action!

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

So could the Muppets

Having seen The Muppet Show I heartily agree!

 

[MetalFoldingChair]

SGA cost somewhere around 1.5 - 2 million US$ per episode.

So that would mean that SGU, based on the 1 million more statement by BW/JM, would cost 2.5 - 3 million US per episode. Since they aren't putting that extra million into special FX then where is it going? Sure, the cast might be larger on SGU verses SGA, but are the salaries of LDP and Robert Carlyle that high? No matter though as a production budget that high verses ratings numbers as low as they are just don't work together.

And I still maintain that the numbers tossed out by BW are hyperbole. Sure they might have put money into the initial pilot and a couple episodes at first but I just don't see 3 million on the screen these days. I don't know where that imaginary 3 million is going but if it's being used to pay the actors then TPTB are fools with their money. No matter as it's sinking fast and I'm more than happy with that.

 

[SexyDexy]

But they had the option to do both shows at once, didn't they?

And I still maintain that the numbers tossed out by BW are hyperbole. Sure they might have put money into the initial pilot and a couple episodes at first but I just don't see 3 million on the screen these days. I don't know where that imaginary 3 million is going but if it's being used to pay the actors then TPTB are fools with their money. No matter as it's sinking fast and I'm more than happy with that.

Well I suppose we are all just speculating at this point, so there is no way to know for sure if it really is 1 million more per episode or not. You could very well be right, Brad Wrong doesn't seem to have any qualms with spouting bull shit. That said, my personal opinion is, that SGU does cost at least 2.5 to 3 million per episode on average - maybe even more. Which means, yes, SGU has to be losing EXTREME amounts of money. It is obscene. I don't know why it hasn't been pulled yet. Anyways my reasoning is that - didn't Brad Wright say before that he didn't want to do two shows at the same time, because it was too stressful? That makes me think he did have the option to do keep SGA running and do two shows - which means, there was budget for two shows at about 1.5 to 2 mil an episode, right? Instead they just elected to do one "blockbuster" show, and so makes sense they would have negotiated almost double the budget for SGU with the promise of massive ratings.

As to where all the money is going - they pay quite a bit for the 3D aliens, I think, and general special effects too. As a ballpark reference, Sateda had a 4 million budget - so episodes in SGU w/ comparable effects and polish to Sateda (which didn't even have all that many special effects if I recall) are gonna be closer to those numbers probably. Which means, episodes w/ the Blaliens, Graliens, and Space "battles" - might be 4 to 5 million a piece. And SGU has quite a few of those. So if their season run has a 60 million budget that doesn't seem so out of the ordinary for me. Also I believe the location shooting in New Mexico for next episode had to be quite pricey. And yeah Ming Na and Robert Carlyle, even LDP may be pricier. And the cast is bigger overall. Lol - maybe the real reason T-bag doesn't show up more, isn't bad writing but the fact that they can't afford for him to show up more - since they blew all their money on the Blaliens. Also perhaps Joe M. and Brad W. take home fat juicy paychecks too. How much do producers get paid, anyways?