The Battlestar Galactica (2.0) Bash! thread

[YJ02]

Yes, you read it correctly. "the bsg bash! thread" What I have been thinking is that it could be interesting to move beyond the obvious criticisms that the bsg naysayers have offered, ad infiniteum , and to have those like me, Gate Boarder and any other "fanboys/girls" offer our knocks on the show

Just like I believe that a great fan of SG1, who is honest, would not say "everything about SG1 is so cool, and if you dont agree-DIE!!" (at least at this forum) but instead be able to see beyond the fascia and give the faults that only a true fan may be able to see.

Let me start:

Kobol: The planet of the gods;the lords of kobol. Here we are told, the whole pantheon of what we know to be the greek gods of myth; lived with the original race of man. the bsg mythos also tells us that the "messengers" (the head creatures) lived there and observed the interaction of man and the gods. http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Messengers
So, after a long existence and advanced civilization there "something" happens that causes mankind (the 12 tribes and the lone 13th tribe (the "earth" skin jobs / the "lower demons") and the lords of kobol to leave.

we are told they (it is not clear if the gods left with them) left on a (as in one) great ship called the "galleon". So how does an entire population of 12 tribes manage to get onto one ship? Was the civilization so advanced that they could build such a ship of this size so long ago? if so, then what happened to this technology when they arrived at the colonies?

Once re-discovered, we are told that religion precludes any return to kobol. the colonials choose to move on-though they could have removed the cylon presence their and established a defense.
However, once the reached "earth" and saw that it sucked, why didn't Adama and Roslin choose to go back to Kobol? The pursuing cylons were suffering attrition at this time, the resurrection hub had been destroyed. the rebel cylons would have most likely gone along with a return to kobol. So why abandon the place in favor of more hardship?

Baltar Baltar is said to be the smartest man left alive in the colonies. Perhaps even the smartest before the attack. So why wasn't a man of such importance-on a military contract-not assigned a security detail? Once the attack took place, wouldn't one assume that he-next to President Adair- would have been one of the most sought out persons for evacuation? A man of such wealth-one would also assume he would have his own ship and crew at his beckon call; who knows when a guy like him might want to make a "booty call" on Tauron after all. I am sure Baltar never traveled "coach".

Cdr Adama Of course there are many issues with him. I just have one. Now perhaps it is just a 'quirk' of his acting style (EJO's) but why did it seems that Adama knew nearly immediately when he was faced with them, that Leoben and Shelly Godfrey were cylons?
With Leoben, one could argue that his appearance and sweating could have just been a sickness, the flu for ex. Why would "radiation messing with your silica pathways (for a brain)" come to front of Adama's mind as a thing to say to a stranger. Especially if we are to believe that Adama has never encountered a skin job before?

As for Godfrey, while he may not have showed it immediately, Adama also went into to his "closed in, guarded" mode when he was with her. Though he never out right called her a cylon, he knew that she was no ordinary person. He ordered that she be watched the entire time on Galactica. The others just assumed that because she was accusing Baltar that the watching her was for her protection, so they would not have thought "she's a cylon"

We know now from RAZOR flashbacks and B&C that Adama has seen the experiments and body parts, but we have nothing to indicate that he knows of skin jobs-unless, Tamara-his half sister, was eventually made into a Zoe type skin job (at Zoe's request? the avenging angels in the "flesh"?) and somehow Adama met her.

Starbuck: We see her disappear and ostensibly, die. Her viper descends into a gas giant and explodes, there was no ejection seat. Then she comes back. The elapsed time was not that long. She tells Apollo that she has been to Earth

When the get to "earth" she finds her original viper (the fleet was guided to earth by the transponder in her viper) and her body-burnt and rotting.

"Head creature/god's" intercession aside, how did the wreckage get to "earth"- why does the fleet need to travel so far to get to Earth when it should be in or near the gas giant she died at?

When they get to "earth" we see no gas giant anywhere near by.

also-

the "watchtower" song-why does starbuck say her father taught her the song? This was a song we are told was popular on "Earth" among the society of kobol skin jobs. why would her father know the song? Or was her father-all along-another "head creature/angel" in the flesh?

Other human survivors/other cylons We know there were other human survivors; ADM Cain's ppl killed off a group of them and took others virtual prisoners for their usefulness. So chances are, there were other groups out in space somewhere-mining operations, exploratory missions (did the colonials have a manned deep space program?), resort and vacation planets, other merchant ships; surely not all were destroyed. Where did they go? Did they form a group of their own with their own military leader (and their own president)? Where did they end up? Are they still looking?

We know that the entire cylon force did not go on the hunt for galactica. many stayed as occupation forces. even after the "6 and 8 faction" took control and ended the occupation, not all of the basestars joined the chase.

Also, these weapons and ships had to be built somewhere. In the mini series we are told that the cylons went to find a planet of their own. They must have an operation on a planet, if for nothing else then the raw material needed to build centurions and ships.

What happened to these workers and administrators?

Why did the centurions allow their creations-the skin jobs, to take control? What occurred that allowed such a large number of intelligent machines to be taken over by a smaller force of skin jobs that they made-albeit with the help of the final five skin jobs?

We are told (in season 4) that all centurions have had a certain decision chip removed from them to make them complacent and to no longer have the command to protect themselves-the lack of this chip makes them little more than cannon fodder-why would they allow themselves to be overwhelmed?
Unless of course, there was a human(s) in control of their original rebellion. Perhaps this human leadership saw a need for more human control via skin jobs. After all, who was in charge of the war? Who engaged in negotiations (with the colonials/the final five)

Maybe we would have seen this in a better written and produced B&C?

But we will probably never know

 

[mzzz]

I can't speak for all of that to any detail because when I watched, it was to me, completely forgettable. All I can say is that I think when you like a show and the characters, you can easily forgive inconsistencies and illogical aspects of a show and still just be able to enjoy it. Think when you start highlighting and noticing the inconsistencies/contradictions of a show, that kinda speaks to your level of enjoyment of said show. That's just me.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Decision chip? Can Ron Moore get any more stupid?

 

[shavedape]

Decision chip? Can Ron Moore get any more stupid?

This is something I definitely have an issue with, the whole "Centurions are individuals with cognitive abilities". Maybe it's a hold over from my appreciation of the original BSG but the way I see it is that centurions are mindless drone soldiers, that's it. Their job is to take orders from the higher-ups. It always bugged me in nuBSG the way they wrote the centurions as being volitional creatures (but rarely showed it*). Then of course they continued this nonsense in Caprica, in fact, they made it worse.

I remember that one scene where Ellen Tigh wakes up in a resurrection tank, freaks out, then realizes that she's a Cylon. Then she asks a centurion to help her step out of the tank and says something to it like "You're very kind".

At any rate, the whole concept of cylons trying desperately to become human and/or model human traits just got so frakking tiresome. Give me robot soldiers who take direction from their alien commanders any day of the week, but save the 'desperate to become human' crap for someone else.

 

[YJ02]

This is something I definitely have an issue with, the whole "Centurions are individuals with cognitive abilities". Maybe it's a hold over from my appreciation of the original BSG but the way I see it is that centurions are mindless drone soldiers, that's it. Their job is to take orders from the higher-ups. It always bugged me in nuBSG the way they wrote the centurions as being volitional creatures (but rarely showed it*). Then of course they continued this nonsense in Caprica, in fact, they made it worse.

I remember that one scene where Ellen Tigh wakes up in a resurrection tank, freaks out, then realizes that she's a Cylon. Then she asks a centurion to help her step out of the tank and says something to it like "You're very kind".

At any rate, the whole concept of cylons trying desperately to become human and/or model human traits just got so frakking tiresome. Give me robot soldiers who take direction from their alien commanders any day of the week, but save the 'desperate to become human' crap for someone else.

That Ellen Tigh is a copy, to her, the last centurions she "remembers" are the "Earth" ones who destroyed her homeworld.

But as I have said before; I AM QUITE SURE THAT the writer did not have that in mind when writing the scene. In many shows I think the fans think more about backstory and consistency then the writers do.

I wouldn't be surprised if that line was an ad lib.

I believe that the chips removed-then placed back into the rebel basestars centurions-were ancilliary to the Meta Cognitive Processor. A bit like Data's emotion chip.

The first centurions (u 87's others) or there controllers decided on this "improvement" for what reason I cannot figure other then perhaps at the urging of Sister Clarice's "ministry"

 

[Overmind One]

This is something I definitely have an issue with, the whole "Centurions are individuals with cognitive abilities". Maybe it's a hold over from my appreciation of the original BSG but the way I see it is that centurions are mindless drone soldiers, that's it. Their job is to take orders from the higher-ups. It always bugged me in nuBSG the way they wrote the centurions as being volitional creatures (but rarely showed it*). Then of course they continued this nonsense in Caprica, in fact, they made it worse.

I remember that one scene where Ellen Tigh wakes up in a resurrection tank, freaks out, then realizes that she's a Cylon. Then she asks a centurion to help her step out of the tank and says something to it like "You're very kind".

At any rate, the whole concept of cylons trying desperately to become human and/or model human traits just got so frakking tiresome. Give me robot soldiers who take direction from their alien commanders any day of the week, but save the 'desperate to become human' crap for someone else.

Okay, in my desperate, pathetic search for some scifi I had not given my time to, I decided to TRY and watch more than two episodes of Battlestar Galactica (NuBSG). I must be dumb, because Im not seeing any "refreshingly different space opera". The best thing about the show BY FAR is it's special effects/shooting style. Yeah, it had shaky cam and the hyper crispy space scenes with cool ships, but the writing and the characters were just not engaging to me. There was too much interpersonal drama. And what were they thinking about these cylons? In the original, they were metal redshirts. They were there to be blown to bits and tricked and hacked. What was Ronald Moore thinking when he created the human cylons? Much of the premise did not make sense given that there were human cylons. Why would the humans destroy cylons that could pass for human? If we had them today, they could allow people to live forever.

I went in knowing that this was the first of the shaky cam dark broody soapfi shows, so much was expected. The drama was just too much to bear. I was hoping for a moment after three episodes where it suddenly became good. Never happened.

 

[YJ02]

Okay, in my desperate, pathetic search for some scifi I had not given my time to, I decided to TRY and watch more than two episodes of Battlestar Galactica (NuBSG). I must be dumb, because Im not seeing any "refreshingly different space opera". The best thing about the show BY FAR is it's special effects/shooting style. Yeah, it had shaky cam and the hyper crispy space scenes with cool ships, but the writing and the characters were just not engaging to me. There was too much interpersonal drama. And what were they thinking about these cylons? In the original, they were metal redshirts. They were there to be blown to bits and tricked and hacked. What was Ronald Moore thinking when he created the human cylons? Much of the premise did not make sense given that there were human cylons. Why would the humans destroy cylons that could pass for human? If we had them today, they could allow people to live forever.

I went in knowing that this was the first of the shaky cam dark broody soapfi shows, so much was expected. The drama was just too much to bear. I was hopinh for a moment after three episodes where it suddenly became good. Never happened.

there are plenty of metal red shirts in the show. and the cylon raider ships-not the heavy raiders-are also "individual" cylon

when anyone goes back and looks at the show now, ESPECIALLY AFTER watching pathetic attempts--syfy network driven?--to recreate the effect and the appeal (like it or hate it, the show did have a faithful audience, one that helped keep the network going after the SG shows started to come to their 'natural' ends) of it. Like oh,I dunno-SGU for example? Even CAPRICA was guilty of this. CAPRICA was also one of the post BSG shows that fell victim to the SYFY network execs NEED AND DEMAND for instant satisfaction in the ratings and viewer numbers (=commercial spot sales)

and all of te other "stuff" that came after and to this day remain (DEFIANCE,etc) on syfy and other networks

so after having watched and hated these other shows that came after BSG it is easy to see how they would pollute any neutral viewing of BSG
-----------------

BSG's appeal to those of us who did like it (BABYLON 5 is still my favorite scifi show) was largely by accident.

There was no real long term "plan"-little appeared to exist that TPTB's did to bring the story from one season to the next

But what they did do, they pulled out of their ass and came up with a "happy accident", one that many of us enjoyed and found entertaining. And that "happy accident" was/is the death of stuff like SGU and other shows that try to recreate the BSG "accident" on purpose. again,IMO totally network driven.

There is just no way around it-ppl either like it or hate it,as I said. If one wants to know why it was seen as a "groundbreaking show",etc, then go and give those who said that (professional critics,etc) a buzz or tweet or WTF ever and ask them.

I can tell you about the show, I can try and "explain" what happened through my perspective and interpretation of the show, but it won't make anyone like it anymore then they did

and besides,we did get "frak" out of it

 

[YJ02]

Okay, in my desperate, pathetic search for some scifi I had not given my time to, I decided to TRY and watch more than two episodes of Battlestar Galactica (NuBSG). I must be dumb, because Im not seeing any "refreshingly different space opera". The best thing about the show BY FAR is it's special effects/shooting style. Yeah, it had shaky cam and the hyper crispy space scenes with cool ships, but the writing and the characters were just not engaging to me. There was too much interpersonal drama. And what were they thinking about these cylons? In the original, they were metal redshirts. They were there to be blown to bits and tricked and hacked. What was Ronald Moore thinking when he created the human cylons? Much of the premise did not make sense given that there were human cylons. Why would the humans destroy cylons that could pass for human? If we had them today, they could allow people to live forever.

I went in knowing that this was the first of the shaky cam dark broody soapfi shows, so much was expected. The drama was just too much to bear. I was hopinh for a moment after three episodes where it suddenly became good. Never happened.

Oh, and the whole "human cylon" thing has been explained ad nauseum by several of us here and by so many more on other sites.

One thing to it, was explained in the bit of CAPRICA that we did. Smart tech seeks out smart tech,uses human behaviour to improve itself and against humans themselves.

The "Evolution" of the human cylon was for some, to find purpose and to perfect its own creation. There is also the other part,equal but separate, where we had the Graystone's daughter (Graystone, being the inventor of the centurion and the various models for work,play,industry and defense that followed ) and having had lost his daughter (Zoe) to a terror attack, and then had used her "online/VR profile" to recreate her consciousness, he wanted a actual body to put "her" in. He and his wife-a plastic surgeon-created the first human cylon-their daughter Zoe.

Of course, this never got fully explained as CAPRICA was axed, so...

 

[Bluce Ree]

This is something I definitely have an issue with, the whole "Centurions are individuals with cognitive abilities". Maybe it's a hold over from my appreciation of the original BSG but the way I see it is that centurions are mindless drone soldiers, that's it.

Not entirely. They do follow orders without question but sentience was hinted at, especially in this episode where we see a Cylon marooned with Starbuck show emotional outbursts:

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Return_of_Starbuck

This episode is from Galactica '80 and also tells us of Starbuck's fate. It's the only episode from Galactica '80 fans consider canonical.

 

[shavedape]

Not entirely. They do follow orders without question but sentience was hinted at, especially in this episode where we see a Cylon marooned with Starbuck show emotional outbursts:

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Return_of_Starbuck

This episode is from Galactica '80 and also tells us of Starbuck's fate. It's the only episode from Galactica '80 fans consider canonical.

 

[Joelist]

If I had to list the issues I had with NuBSG, they would be headed by the excessive melodrama and illogical plot elements (many of which others have listed upthread). Also an issue to me was defining the characters more by their failings than by how they overcome failing and by their strengths. When you do this it makes the characters difficult to root for. And that makes the show harder to watch - you need someone to sympathize with to enjoy drama over a longer term (longer than say, a movie).

Under the "plot" category, most of the problem areas are things Moore brought in for the new show. They include:

a) The Final Five. This was a literally silly plot concept and showed that contrary to what was said this show had no "show bible". Indeed the concept was obviously not even in the scripts before the end of Season Two in any real form, as evidenced by the writers doing a lot of retconning late in the run of the show (Season Four episodes after they moved on from the uninhabitable "earth") and even a whole TV movie (The Plan) all to try to make this concept fit in.

b) Hera. This is another plot element which the ending made clear had no payoff at all envisioned when they came up with it. You wind up just shrugging your shoulders after it all as it turns out all the fuss over her was meaningless.

And of course that brings us to...

c) The Cylon Plan. What plan? Really it was never explained in any rational manner, not even in the entire TV movie dedicated to it. And to make it funnier every episode even said in the credits that "They have a Plan". And indeed this also was retconned in the late series and the movies to try to smooth over the fact that the Cylon's appear to be guided by nothing at all - I could have rolled dice for them and gotten more logical actions for them to do.

That brings us to characterizations. As stated above a BIG issue was defining people more by their bad points than their good points. Also, characters would literally change personality within episode strings in the same season. An example was in Season Three Adama was mostly protective and level - then suddenly there is a strike and he turns into a martinet who would make the Captain Bligh of legend (the real man was different) proud. Next episode he is back to himself like nothing happened.

Even the stuff that was done pretty well in the first season in a half, like the depiction of the military, went off the rails as the show went on. It's like they had military advisors but after a while just ignored them. Episodes like "Pegasus" were pretty bad in this respect and if you looks ta the ratings trajectory of the show you can actually tell where the viewers started to tune out, and it started here and accelerated a lot during the New Caprica storyline.

 

[Quetesh]

I love NuBSG and I was shocked to come to find out I was married to someone who loves it all the more. We have now watched it 2 times together and I saw it once before that. My last time was just a few months ago.

I have to say that my biggest issues are this:

1. Why were the Final Five so raised and untouchable that the Cylons were not even allowed to see their faces one day and the next like yesterday's soup? Once revealed the entire Cylon race should have bowed at their feet, minus Cavil/John, and never should have had been a doubt which path for them to follow. This is all crap... the Cylons would have not done anything against the Humans if even one of Final Five had an issue with it. Ellen also is like the mother Madonna and if John even gave her a stink eye he should have been boxed by the rest.

2. Hera's build up was so huge and her payoff/climax was meek at best. Really? She gets to play little house on the prairie? She is said to be Eve, but also crap since all of the BSG crew are humanoid already just like us and they plan to procreate with the natives, so Hera was pointless in the end...woot te do.

3. Giving up all their technology to start from scratch on Earth. In a word. Bullshit. There was thousands of them, more than a few would not have given up all tech. Which means it would have bled into the locals and we would all be uber more advanced these days.

6. Head Six is there all along with Baltar but we only get to see Head Baltar with Caprica Six one time. Why? to confuse us, or because that was originally nothing but a Cylon head game or delusion and then writers changed their minds to make seem more devout? It just ruins the purity of it.

7. Adama and Lee. Father and son, loved each other, through war and peace and politics and law, and pretty much everything. However, Adama flies away with Laura and she passes, and Lee goes off to explore the world, and they say goodbye for good. Frak that! All because of this dumb ass no tech idea, they can never see each other again. For that matter no more bromance for Saul and Adama either since he lives in that mountain cabin overlooking Laura's grave all alone even though she is dead. Lame.

8. Where did all the Skin jobs go? They rust sure but they were made of stuff we don't have on our Earth and parts of them should have turned up around an area that Eve did, so did they just evaporate?

9. The non skin job "good robots" were given their freedom, since the FF "hope" they learned not to come back and blow us us to smithereens. Yeah, I hope so too Ellen, it is all the less a really stupid gamble to take since you just gave up all your weapons and tech to defend yourself.

10. Nothing about Starbuck makes sense except she was a ghost/angel. Her plane was a vision for her to see and her dad was an implanted vision as well. I felt like that also had some writing on the sly going on.

11. They kill off the bad John/Cavill/Number One and Starbuck takes them to Earth, no more resurrection since Tory is killed by Chief for blowing Callie out the airlock. So why do the other Ones just give up the fight, and all the Fours and Fives? Did they manage in that last battle to kill them all? Did they airlock them? The Final Five would not step in to mediate since "these were all their children" so no way they would allow that. Instead they all just fly to Earth and go chase daises. This is so dumb because the Ones, Fours, and Fives wanted to live forever and now they are content with a Caprica look a like planet, which is also not Earth ( that is toast ) ?

12. How could Saul and Six have been pregnant in first place? How could Athena be for that matter? Seems like Helo and Saul have magic sperm. It would have made so much more sense for a female Final Five like Tory to be able to get pregnant by a human than for regular female skin job since she is assumingly more anatomically correct. If not any female skin job should be able to do it with human male sperm so Simon's Farm is now a moot point.

 

[shavedape]

Not entirely. They do follow orders without question but sentience was hinted at, especially in this episode where we see a Cylon marooned with Starbuck show emotional outbursts:

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Return_of_Starbuck

This episode is from Galactica '80 and also tells us of Starbuck's fate. It's the only episode from Galactica '80 fans consider canonical.

To be honest I might have been thinking of the BSG book I read when I was a kid. The Cylons were actual alien creatures, not robots. I might be remembering this wrong but I think they also created robots (drones) to act as soldiers.

At any rate, it doesn't make sense to give a robot soldier the ability of sentience. In fact, it makes no sense to give a robot soldier a neural network capable of sentience. It's one thing to give a robot soldier the ability to "choose" the best course of action in the theater of war but it's another thing completely to give a robot soldier the ability to judge whether its actions are right or wrong. This is what's wrong with nuBSG. The Cylons, in all their forms, were essentially human. That was just dumb writing.

 

[Gate_Boarder]

Gate_Boarder can barely remember the show. Even CaproCaine can barely remember the show. I think it takes place in a galaxy far, far away, where a technically superior race decides to give up all their technology and go "native", so as to not scare the local populace. I still believe that could happen if we at sometime in the future encounter a race that had to abandon its planet with just their clothes on their back. If they are humanoid looking similar to us, we ain't gonna see that happen. Nada, zilch, and that load of bumpkus, ain't gonna happen. Power and the keeping of power is ingrained in our mitochondrial blood flow and that god given practise will never change.

Having stripped all the positive looking "black" characters that we saw in the original series might be considered racist in some form - if not stupid. Then we have the final five who came from out of nowhere - Kobol, the dead or dying planet was it?

Surprising though, Ronald Moore or one of his writers could be right on at least one subject. More and more geneticists are coming to the conclusion, at least on "Ancient Aliens", that something happened around 150,000 years that dramatically changed the "human" DNA.

It is hard to say if BSG will have the legs that the great "Babylon 5" will have; but then I don't think I will be around in fifty years to see a huge flotilla of peace loving refugees, who are escaping their dying planet, and coming here just asking for a tiny place to settle in. Similar in vain to what the peace loving Europeans asked from the "natives".

And so it ended, so many years ago.

 

[YJ02]

Gate_Boarder can barely remember the show. Even CaproCaine can barely remember the show. I think it takes place in a galaxy far, far away, where a technically superior race decides to give up all their technology and go "native", so as to not scare the local populace. I still believe that could happen if we at sometime in the future encounter a race that had to abandon its planet with just their clothes on their back. If they are humanoid looking similar to us, we ain't gonna see that happen. Nada, zilch, and that load of bumpkus, ain't gonna happen. Power and the keeping of power is ingrained in our mitochondrial blood flow and that god given practise will never change.

Having stripped all the positive looking "black" characters that we saw in the original series might be considered racist in some form - if not stupid. Then we have the final five who came from out of nowhere - Kobol, the dead or dying planet was it?

Surprising though, Ronald Moore or one of his writers could be right on at least one subject. More and more geneticists are coming to the conclusion, at least on "Ancient Aliens", that something happened around 150,000 years that dramatically changed the "human" DNA.

It is hard to say if BSG will have the legs that the great "Babylon 5" will have; but then I don't think I will be around in fifty years to see a huge flotilla of peace loving refugees, who are escaping their dying planet, and coming here just asking for a tiny place to settle in. Similar in vain to what the peace loving Europeans asked from the "natives".

And so it ended, so many years ago.

Oh Capro Cai..wait I mean, gate boarder, you forget so soon. The famous (infamous?) final five-so unnecessary to the show--it is almost as if they just scrabbled up some extras and said "your'e it!"--came from Earth, that is the planet they called Earth not our Earth

That is the Earth that Adama was slinging the morale necessary BS about. That the 'high command' had knowledge of that Earth--not this Earth.

 

[Quetesh]

If you can't be with the one you love ( planet ), love the one you're with?

 

[YJ02]

To be honest I might have been thinking of the BSG book I read when I was a kid. The Cylons were actual alien creatures, not robots. I might be remembering this wrong but I think they also created robots (drones) to act as soldiers.

At any rate, it doesn't make sense to give a robot soldier the ability of sentience. In fact, it makes no sense to give a robot soldier a neural network capable of sentience. It's one thing to give a robot soldier the ability to "choose" the best course of action in the theater of war but it's another thing completely to give a robot soldier the ability to judge whether its actions are right or wrong. This is what's wrong with nuBSG. The Cylons, in all their forms, were essentially human. That was just dumb writing.

To get to that answer--or somewhere approaching it--you would need to have followed the bouncing ball in CAPRICA

the VR world, the way that the "slave" cylons were spiritualized by Sister Clarice within the confines of the VR world "church" (long after her failed apotheosis attempt). a summary of this:

• Clarice preaches to a congregation of Cylon workers of various models in a V-world church, saying that their ability to question whether they are alive means that they are alive, and that they are children of God as well as humanity. She plans to travel to Gemenon and ask the Holy Mother for recognition of Cylons in the monotheist faith. The Cylons, Clarice preaches, will become equals to humanity and may evolve past their current state, with brains encoded on computer chips. She prophecizes that there is one who will set them free and they will rise up to crush their creators. Some form of Zoe is seen in the congregation, smiling.
• Clarice does indeed go to Gemenon and is seen talking with Odin Sinclair. After conversing for some time, he tells her he has heard enough and hands her back a book. Clarice then meets with the current Holy Mother, who is Lacy Rand, with U-87s in the background. Rand tells Clarice to kneel

from= http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Apotheosis_(episode)#Act_4

the cylon centurions- U87's, the in betweens, the raiders, the new centurions-were NOT given sentience by their manufacturers-other machines of course- but since they were built with basically a "wifi connection"-to enhance their battlefield communication and efficiency, they were, one by one "hacked" in some way into the religious gibber jabber of Sister Clarice and the monotheistic order-perhaps by the remnants of this human religious order on Gemenon

these were issues that would have been covered in CAPRICA and it is what many of us hoped to see some taste of on BLOOD AND CHROME (which we didn't)

YES,yes, I know-- BSG and CAPRICA and its many sub plots is perhaps the one show in history-to date-the requires so much of screen "learning". This is yet one more reason for why so many ppl didn't like it-too much effort

 

[Quetesh]

I would say that Caprica actually is much more complicated than NuBSG. Amazing considering the length of the two. We started redoing Caprica but new shows came back, so that is postponed for now. That would need a whole other thread for me.

OT:
I might suggest a similar one for Continuum now that it has finished too. I have much too say on that and a summer re-do will be coming for me on that.

 

[YJ02]

I love NuBSG and I was shocked to come to find out I was married to someone who loves it all the more. We have now watched it 2 times together and I saw it once before that. My last time was just a few months ago.

I have to say that my biggest issues are this:

1. Why were the Final Five so raised and untouchable that the Cylons were not even allowed to see their faces one day and the next like yesterday's soup? Once revealed the entire Cylon race should have bowed at their feet, minus Cavil/John, and never should have had been a doubt which path for them to follow. This is all crap... the Cylons would have not done anything against the Humans if even one of Final Five had an issue with it. Ellen also is like the mother Madonna and if John even gave her a stink eye he should have been boxed by the rest.

2. Hera's build up was so huge and her payoff/climax was meek at best. Really? She gets to play little house on the prairie? She is said to be Eve, but also crap since all of the BSG crew are humanoid already just like us and they plan to procreate with the natives, so Hera was pointless in the end...woot te do.

3. Giving up all their technology to start from scratch on Earth. In a word. Bullshit. There was thousands of them, more than a few would not have given up all tech. Which means it would have bled into the locals and we would all be uber more advanced these days.

6. Head Six is there all along with Baltar but we only get to see Head Baltar with Caprica Six one time. Why? to confuse us, or because that was originally nothing but a Cylon head game or delusion and then writers changed their minds to make seem more devout? It just ruins the purity of it.

7. Adama and Lee. Father and son, loved each other, through war and peace and politics and law, and pretty much everything. However, Adama flies away with Laura and she passes, and Lee goes off to explore the world, and they say goodbye for good. Frak that! All because of this dumb ass no tech idea, they can never see each other again. For that matter no more bromance for Saul and Adama either since he lives in that mountain cabin overlooking Laura's grave all alone even though she is dead. Lame.

8. Where did all the Skin jobs go? They rust sure but they were made of stuff we don't have on our Earth and parts of them should have turned up around an area that Eve did, so did they just evaporate?

9. The non skin job "good robots" were given their freedom, since the FF "hope" they learned not to come back and blow us us to smithereens. Yeah, I hope so too Ellen, it is all the less a really stupid gamble to take since you just gave up all your weapons and tech to defend yourself.

10. Nothing about Starbuck makes sense except she was a ghost/angel. Her plane was a vision for her to see and her dad was an implanted vision as well. I felt like that also had some writing on the sly going on.

11. They kill off the bad John/Cavill/Number One and Starbuck takes them to Earth, no more resurrection since Tory is killed by Chief for blowing Callie out the airlock. So why do the other Ones just give up the fight, and all the Fours and Fives? Did they manage in that last battle to kill them all? Did they airlock them? The Final Five would not step in to mediate since "these were all their children" so no way they would allow that. Instead they all just fly to Earth and go chase daises. This is so dumb because the Ones, Fours, and Fives wanted to live forever and now they are content with a Caprica look a like planet, which is also not Earth ( that is toast ) ?

12. How could Saul and Six have been pregnant in first place? How could Athena be for that matter? Seems like Helo and Saul have magic sperm. It would have made so much more sense for a female Final Five like Tory to be able to get pregnant by a human than for regular female skin job since she is assumingly more anatomically correct. If not any female skin job should be able to do it with human male sperm so Simon's Farm is now a moot point.

All IMO mind you:

the F5 were so "worshipped" as they brought the tech with them to make skin jobs. The Colonial cylons had this in their grasps with the most likely possession of Daniel Graystone (the old guy in the "bathtub" on the old basestar-aka-the more then likely first hybrid--remember him? (RAZOR)) and lost him.

Gate boarder has all of this DAN Graystone stuff in a faded and sun scorched manilla folder stuffed in rusty GF's filing cabinet somewhere around here

HERA was just a white rabbit running and tripped over a red herring ALL IN THE PURPOSE of serving RDM's fascination with the (then) recent discovery of mitochondrial EVE

the cylons and the "head creatures"/angels (TOS "Being of Light" were they called?) had nothing to do with one another--they are above all of this human folly and have been for a long while

they may be the originators of the "all of this has happened before and will happen again"--'divinely revealed' to the writer of the ancient scriptures.

no way of knowing if Admiral adama and his son ever see each other again

it can be seen as metaphorical with human legend (or the origin of the legend if their landing here were real)--Admiral Adama is "Zeus" (he was referred to has that so in a disrespectful way in the series at least once) of Greek/Mycenaen legend. Lee and his plan of using the Viper to go sight see is consistent with the legend of Apollo (his call sign and the son of Zeus) flying around the world delivering the gift of fire to man--that would be the primitive man already here.

 

[Quetesh]

The Skin jobs in the beginning of NuBSG were not even supposed to speak of these FF. Then later it just becomes about the tech, hence the yesterday's soup. Even if Daniel was first Hybrid, which is sick since this means his skinjob daughter turned him into one or Clarice or Lacey/Mother. Just feels icky to me. It was still just about tech. For Capricans tech is old news. They have a piece of paper that acts like a laptop, remember on the train right before human Zoe died?

They allude that Lee "will not be back" and so unless they break their golden no tech rules, then neither Adama or Lee or Saul can ever bro up again. Adama used his shuttle to fly to his cabin with Laura and Lee uses a Viper and speaks of far south. TBH, I don't even know where Saul and Ellen end up. How would any of them either with no tech?

What you are saying about Lee/Apollo BTW would make him a dirty stinking liar. He agreed to no tech and he was former pres.