Oh my...Windows 8 on a desktop SUCKS harder than a black hole on meth.

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Okay, I was using my tablet to feed my big screen TV a picture, and therefore I was unable to use it when it was hooked up. So, I broke down and bought a Lenovo computer to attach permanently to the TV so I could use my favorite programs like VLC and Winamp visualizations (so cool). What I did not expect was for the machine to be loaded with Windows 8. I thought to myself...can it really be that bad? I have a full retail version of Windows 8, so why not give it a whorl?

:facepalm:

On a tablet, this is the best Windows ever. On a desktop it is your worst nightmare. The UI is AWFUL to use with a keyboard and mouse. Each app opens full screen, and you cannot easily see how many apps you have open anymore. You cannot close them as easily either. To get to the control panel or other places in the OS, you have to move the mouse into the upper right corner, then type the program you want to use. There are tiles you can see for programs, but all of this takes place on a full screen. The most similar experience I have for this is when I hook my phone to the monitor using the HDMI and a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. HORRIBLE for a desktop OS.

I gave it a chance. I still have it on my new computer. But I am inching closer and closer to uninstalling it and wiping the drive so I can install Windows 7. OR, I will see if VMware Workstation 8 will install on it and then run Windows 7 within it.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Okay, I was using my tablet to feed my big screen TV a picture, and therefore I was unable to use it when it was hooked up. So, I broke down and bought a Lenovo computer to attach permanently to the TV so I could use my favorite programs like VLC and Winamp visualizations (so cool). What I did not expect was for the machine to be loaded with Windows 8. I thought to myself...can it really be that bad? I have a full retail version of Windows 8, so why not give it a whorl?

:facepalm:

On a tablet, this is the best Windows ever. On a desktop it is your worst nightmare. The UI is AWFUL to use with a keyboard and mouse. Each app opens full screen, and you cannot easily see how many apps you have open anymore. You cannot close them as easily either. To get to the control panel or other places in the OS, you have to move the mouse into the upper right corner, then type the program you want to use. There are tiles you can see for programs, but all of this takes place on a full screen. The most similar experience I have for this is when I hook my phone to the monitor using the HDMI and a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. HORRIBLE for a desktop OS.

I gave it a chance. I still have it on my new computer. But I am inching closer and closer to uninstalling it and wiping the drive so I can install Windows 7. OR, I will see if VMware Workstation 8 will install on it and then run Windows 7 within it.


is it possible that this is an attempt to push everyone to tablets and smaller devices? Shape the market by changing the software-make it too clumsy for desktop use.

what tends to last longer-a desktop or a tablet (must consider wear and tear, dropping it, in the elements, etc as part of the life expectancy of a tablet)? If a pc lasts longer on average, then is this also an attempt to re-create the durable goods loop? Make stuff to last a shorter time so you are replacing it faster and therefore generating revenue?

ON A DIFF QUESTION:

I asked in one of the tech threads but didn't get an resp.

Is there any off the shelf devices that do the same thing as a Vizio costar (full internet on tv) but actually works well?

I'd rather nt buy another pc just for the tv, but if i have to, what is the cheapest pc that is good for internet access (wouldn't want the other programs and hoopla on it)

thx
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
It's a matter of opinion Trop. I'm using it on a desktop and it is working just fine. In fact, it gives me things I didn't get before like a VERY easy to use way to see exactly what is running and a shut down method that always works and is easy (as opposed to the CTRL+ALT+DEL routine of the past).

Also, if you don't like using the start menu on a desktop you can go to the old desktop with one extra mouse click. So it's really all opinion.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
It's a matter of opinion Trop. I'm using it on a desktop and it is working just fine. In fact, it gives me things I didn't get before like a VERY easy to use way to see exactly what is running and a shut down method that always works and is easy (as opposed to the CTRL+ALT+DEL routine of the past).

Also, if you don't like using the start menu on a desktop you can go to the old desktop with one extra mouse click. So it's really all opinion.

Beg to differ Joelist, because the transition of enterprise workers from Windows 7 (or previous) to Windows 8 is already a known productivity nightmare. The learning curve is too great and workers who are not IT savvy but are Windows savvy will spend too much time adapting to Windows 8. It is already a failure on the enterprise level based on the deployment statistics and planned deployment schedules of medium and large enterprises. Dell and HP are already noting that the vast majority of pre-configured machines being ordered by companies are specifically requesting W7 Pro over the default Win8 install.

The reasons are many. I get it that you like it on a personal level as a home user. But in the enterprise it is a failure. Developers have shunned the platform. IT administrators are rejecting large-scale deployment of the OS.

So, whether you like it or not as an individual, the numbers are telling the real story of Windows 8 and they spell F-A-I-L-U-R-E at the moment. About half of enterprise level clients are still running a mixed environment of Windows XP and Windows 7, with Windows 7 being deployed regularly to replace Windows XP. But Windows 8 is not making any headway in the enterprise, following the faile route that Vista did in the enterprise. Not an opinion!
--- merged: Dec 9, 2012 at 1:17 PM ---
Didn't think Win8 can be that bad, guess I was wrong lol


There are some cool things in it, and it is not horrible, but as far as being a success you cant really say that. I have it on one of my new home computers (as I stated earlier), but the software development company I am an administrator for has stated flatly that they are not interested in Win 8 to replace their desktop OS and I support that wholeheartedly.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Um, the opinion of IT people are still opinions. That doesn't make them facts.

Wait 24 months then look and see on deployments to business. Also remember that this particular Windows version isn't really targeted at businesses. It is and always was consumer targeted. And in that arena it is doing pretty well.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Um, the opinion of IT people are still opinions. That doesn't make them facts.

Wait 24 months then look and see on deployments to business. Also remember that this particular Windows version isn't really targeted at businesses. It is and always was consumer targeted. And in that arena it is doing pretty well.

The numbers are facts.

Bolded is the reason why it will fail in the enterprise. And if it fails there, Microsoft will be severely hurt by it since the enterprise is the foundation of their revenue and not consumers. The OS is doing well on the consumer level, but it is not outdoing Android or iOS. I will say that I absolutely LOVE Win8 on a tablet. There is a caveat, if enterprises upgrade HARDWARE and move towards tablets/keyboard cases or touch screens as is predicted at some point, it (Win8) will pretty much be the ONLY option which makes sense. But that hardware infrastructure change is still years into the future. There is a distinct advantage to not having to have desktop machines to move around and using the wireless network as a primary connection. But the enterprise is not in that realm yet.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
The numbers are facts.

Bolded is the reason why it will fail in the enterprise. And if it fails there, Microsoft will be severely hurt by it since the enterprise is the foundation of their revenue and not consumers. The OS is doing well on the consumer level, but it is not outdoing Android or iOS. I will say that I absolutely LOVE Win8 on a tablet. There is a caveat, if enterprises upgrade HARDWARE and move towards tablets/keyboard cases or touch screens as is predicted at some point, it (Win8) will pretty much be the ONLY option which makes sense. But that hardware infrastructure change is still years into the future. There is a distinct advantage to not having to have desktop machines to move around and using the wireless network as a primary connection. But the enterprise is not in that realm yet.

From a developer's perspective, right now, very little beats the windowed environment for development. If I had to swipe screens left and right between my dev environment and the test platform I would probably go postal.

For any development environment to distance itself from the keyboard paradigm would involve computers compiling code that will finally do what developers mean and not what they say. :icon_lol:
 

Atlantis

Well Known GateFan
My older brother and younger brother are both using windows 8 they are legit versions as well for a desktop PC and there are no complications at all. In fact they are both saying that its much quicker and easier to use compared with windows 7. I don't know about tablets I am not really a big fan of them.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Im done with Windows 8 for my new computer. Im reverting back to Windows 7. I mentioned in the beginning of this thread that I recently bought a new Lenovo for my big TV. With it, Netflix, games and internet media are a snap. But not with Windows 8. I have a Windows Media Center remote from the last computer I attached to my TV, but guess what? Windows Media Center is not available anymore. The next best thing was a wireless keyboard with a trackpad:

usbfever-wireless-keyboard-with-touchpad.jpg


But Windows 8 is so unfriendly when it comes to the way I use my computer for media. It forces me to add 4 or 5 extra steps just to do one thing. It does not allow me to easily search my files, and every app you open takes up the entire screen. You so not see them running on the taskbar like in Windows 7, so you have to navigate away to see what is running and then you can close it. All of the geek tools are buried and you have to trek through several (very pretty) screens to get to them. All and all, it frustrates the hell out of me to work with it even though I have been using it in my home environment for a couple of months. So what pushed me over the edge? Forced updates with no choice to ignore, incompatible programs, and especially ease of use. Too many screens to do things that used to be done with a couple of clicks. It does not have native DVD playback installed by default. :facepalm:

When I get a new tablet, I am most likely going to make it a Windows tablet with Win8 on it because on a tablet it is going to be a success. It is going to be ignored by enterprises most likely for its entire run, until there is a Windows 9. Many home users who have purchased new desktops with Win8 loaded on them have been requesting reversions (cant do it, you have to wipe and install fresh). I found a cool tutorial which tells you of several ways to make your Win 8 more like Win 7, but it involved all sorts of little programs and hacks (some of which disable the Metro UI and restore functionality to Windows which was installed by default in Win7), and it is much easier to just well, install Windows 7. I will be able to use my media remote again, easily access my files and play DVDs natively.

I already had Windows 8 in my Virtual Machine library, so I can continue to use it, but it will live inside my Win 7 machine. Since I have a full license for it, I will just virtualize the existing machine and then wipe it to install Windows 7 Enterprise.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
This is how Windows 8 would work if you had a large touch screen to use it on:


Thing is, why would you trade in your super duper desktop and monitor for an all-in-one large screen computer with a touch screen? Windows 8 is like...5 years early. In the video, the guy implies how much better Windows 8 is for a touch based OS (he refers to that stupid mouse :facepalm:). Does Microsoft think that everybody is going to just dump PCs for touch screen PCs? Its not gonna happen. Not if you can do EVERYTHING that you need with your existing PC.

I found a decent priced touch screen based computer at Best Buy here:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+...bolsp-app06-08?id=1218810049495&skuId=6877771

Capture.PNG
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
This has been confirmed now by the Nielsen Norman group. Windows 8 is failing on a trajectory even worse than Windows Vista: http://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappointing-usability/

This is an objective group who has no ties or qualms with Microsoft. They analyzed the UI, gathered data from test Power Users and Novice Users and this is what they came up with.


Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

Summary: Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density. Too bad.

With the recent launch of Windows 8 and the Surface tablets, Microsoft has reversed its user interface strategy. From a traditional Gates-driven GUI style that emphasized powerful commands to the point of featuritis, Microsoft has gone soft and now smothers usability with big colorful tiles while hiding needed features.

The new design is obviously optimized for touchscreen use (where big targets are helpful), but Microsoft is also imposing this style on its traditional PC users because all of Windows 8 is permeated by the tablet sensibility.

How well does this work for real users performing real tasks? To find out, we invited 12 experienced PC users to test Windows 8 on both regular computers and Microsoft's new Surface RT tablets.

Double Desktop = Cognitive Overhead and Added Memory Load

The Roman god Janus; Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde; even Batman's arch-foe Two-Face — human culture is fascinated by duality. We can now add Windows 8 to this list. The product shows two faces to the user: a tablet-oriented Start screen and a PC-oriented desktop screen.

Unfortunately, having two environments on a single device is a prescription for usability problems for several reasons:

Users have to learn and remember where to go for which features.
When running web browsers in both device areas, users will only see (and be reminded of) a subset of their open web pages at any given time.
Switching between environments increases the interaction cost of using multiple features.
The two environments work differently, making for an inconsistent user experience.

Lack of Multiple Windows = Memory Overload for Complex Tasks

One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows" no longer supports multiple windows on the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window."

The single-window strategy works well on tablets and is required on a small phone screen. But with a big monitor and dozens of applications and websites running simultaneously, a high-end PC user definitely benefits from the ability to see multiple windows at the same time. Indeed, the most important web use cases involve collecting, comparing, and choosing among several web pages, and such tasks are much easier with several windows when you have the screen space to see many things at once.

When users can't view several windows simultaneously, they must keep information from one window in short-term memory while they activate another window. This is problematic for two reasons. First, human short-term memory is notoriously weak, and second, the very task of having to manipulate a window—instead of simply glancing at one that's already open—further taxes the user's cognitive resources.

Flat Style Reduces Discoverability

The Windows 8 UI is completely flat in what used to be called the "Metro" style and is now called the "Modern UI." There's no pseudo-3D or lighting model to cast subtle shadows that indicate what's clickable (because it looks raised above the rest) or where you can type (because it looks indented below the page surface).

I do think Metro/Modern has more elegant typography than past UI styles and that the brightly colored tiles feel fresh.

But the new look sacrifices usability on the altar of looking different than traditional GUIs. There's a reason GUI designers used to make objects look more detailed and actionable than they do in the Metro design. As an example, look at this settings menu:


The bottom of the Windows 8 settings menu on Surface RT.

Where can you click? Everything looks flat, and in fact "Change PC settings" looks more like the label for the icon group than a clickable command. As a result, many users in our testing didn't click this command when they were trying to access one of the features it hides.

(In that task, we asked users to change the start screen background color. As a further problem, the very command label had misleading information scent for some users; they thought of the Surface as a tablet, not a "PC.")

We also saw problems with users overlooking or misinterpreting tabbed GUI components because of the low distinctiveness of the tab selection and the poor perceived affordance of the very concept of clickable tabs.

Icons are flat, monochromatic, and coarsely simplified. This is no doubt a retort to Apple's overly tangible, colorful, and extremely detailed "skeuomorphic" design style in iOS. For once, I think a compromise would be better than either extreme. In this case, we often saw users either not relating to the icons or simply not understanding them.

Icons are supposed to (a) help users interpret the system, and (b) attract clicks. Not the Win8 icons.

Low Information Density

The available advice on designing for the "modern UI style" seems to guide designers to create applications with extraordinarily low information density. See, for example, the following screenshots:


Start screens from the Bing Finance (top) and Los Angeles Times (bottom) apps for the Surface tablet.

Despite running on a huge 10.6-inch tablet, Bing Finance shows only a single story (plus 3 stock market quotes) on the initial screen. The Los Angeles Times is not much better: this newspaper app's initial screen is limited to 3 headlines and an advertisement. In fact, they don't even show the lead story's full headline and the summary has room for only 7 words. Come on, this tiny amount of news is all you can fit into 1366 × 768 pixels?


www.latimes.com in the tablet-mode browser.

Visiting the newspaper's website in Internet Explorer gives you much more information, though it's unfortunate that the site doesn't exploit the real estate offered by the widescreen aspect ratio on the Surface (and many full-sized computers). The website shows 9 stories (and 3 ads) in the same space as the 3 stories offered by the Metro app. Plus we get full summaries of the top articles.

Yes, big photos are nice. Yes, spacious layouts are nice. But you don't have to be a fanatic follower of Edward Tufte to want a bit more "data ink" on the screen.

As a result of the Surface's incredibly low information density, users are relegated to incessant scrolling to get even a modest overview of the available information.

As it turns out, users didn't mind horizontal scrolling on the Surface, which is interesting given that horizontal scrolling is a usability disaster for websites on desktop computers. Still, there's such a thing as too much scrolling, and users won't spend the time to move through large masses of low-density information.

Overly Live Tiles Backfire

Live tiles are one of the UI advances in Windows 8. Instead of always representing an app with the same static icon, a live tile summarizes current information from within the app. This works well when used judiciously. Good examples include:

Weather app showing current (or predicted) temperature and precipitation
Email app showing the subject line of the latest incoming message
Calendar app showing your next appointment
Stock market app showing the current market level
Unfortunately, application designers immediately went overboard and went from live tiles to hyper-energized ones. To illustrate …

Quick, without reading the caption, which apps do the following 4 tiles represent?


Live tiles for (clockwise from upper left): Urbanspoon, Los Angeles Times, Newegg, and Epicurious.

Newegg is the only app that includes its full name in the tile. When we asked participants to use the other apps, they couldn't find them. This on a new tablet with only a few applications installed. We know from our user testing of other tablets and mobile devices that users quickly accumulate numerous applications, most of which they rarely use and can barely recognize—even with static icons that never change.

The theory, no doubt, is to attract users by constantly previewing new photos and other interesting content within the tiles. But the result makes the Surface start screen into an incessantly blinking, unruly environment that feels like dozens of carnival barkers yelling at you simultaneously.

Charms Are Hidden Generic Commands

One of the most promising design ideas in Windows 8 is the enhanced use of generic commands in the form of the so-called "charms." The charms are a panel of icons that slide in from the screen's right side after a flicking gesture from its right edge (on a tablet) or after pointing the mouse to the screen's upper-right corner (on a computer).

The charms panel includes features like Search, Share (including email), and Settings that apply to whatever content the user is currently viewing. In principle, it's great to have these commands universally available in a single, uniform design that's always accessed the same way.

In practice, the charms work poorly — at least for new users. The old saying, out of sight, out of mind, turned out to be accurate. Because the charms are hidden, our users often forgot to summon them, even when they needed them. In applications such as Epicurious, which included a visible reminder of the search feature, users turned to search much more frequently.

Hiding commands and other GUI chrome makes sense on small mobile phones. It makes less sense on bigger tablet screens. And it makes no sense at all on huge PC screens.

Furthermore, the charms don't actually work universally because they're not true generic commands. In our test, users often clicked Search only to be told, "This application cannot be searched." Enough disappointments and users will stop trying a feature. (Also, of course, it violates basic usability guidelines; that is, you shouldn't tease users by offering a feature that isn't actually available.)

Finally, not all users understood that the commands are context dependent and do different things on different pages.

Many other features are initially hidden and are revealed only when users perform specific and often convoluted gestures. For example, all of our users had great difficulty with an extraordinarily basic task: changing the city in the weather app. Obvious gestures, such as clicking the name of the current city to change locations, didn't work. Users' difficulties were exacerbated by the fact that the "Modern" GUI style doesn't indicate which words and fields are active and/or can be changed.

What's the long-term usability of the hidden features in Windows 8? We might expect users to grow accustomed to the need to reveal the charms and other non-visible commands, even though this imposes additional cognitive overhead on using the system. That is, people must think to do something, rather than being reminded to do something, and thus users will sometimes neglect useful Win8 features.

Also, the familiarity bred by long-term use might be counteracted by the fact that well-designed websites have trained users to expect important features to be shown directly in the context in which they're needed. You simply can't design a website with hidden features and expect it to be used: website features are usually ephemeral, meaning that they must be explicitly represented if they're to gather any use.

Thus, people's experience with the web excerts a powerful pull in the direction of expecting visible features. It remains to be seen whether the Surface tablet's physical presence creates enough of an opposing pull to remind people to look for hidden features when they're using Surface apps.

Error-Prone Gestures

The tablet version of Windows 8 introduces a bunch of complicated gestures that are easy to get wrong and thus dramatically reduce the UI's learnability. If something doesn't work, users don't know whether they did the gesture wrong, the gesture doesn't work in the current context, or they need to do a different gesture entirely. This makes it hard to learn and remember the gestures. And it makes actual use highly error-prone and more time-consuming than necessary.

The worst gesture might be the one to reveal the list of currently running applications: you need to first swipe from the screen's left edge, and then immediately reverse direction and do a small swipe the other way, and finally make a 90-degree turn to move your finger to a thumbnail of the desired application. The slightest mistake in any of these steps gives you a different result.

The UI is littered with swipe ambiguity, where similar (or identical) gestures have different outcomes depending on subtle details in how they're activated or executed. For example, start swiping from the right to the left and you will either scroll the screen horizontally or reveal the charm bar, depending on exactly where your finger first touched the screen. This was very confusing to the users in our study.

Windows 8 UX: Weak on Tablets, Terrible for PCs

As mentioned in the introduction, Windows 8 encompasses two UI styles within one product. Windows 8 on mobile devices and tablets is akin to Dr. Jekyll: a tortured soul hoping for redemption. On a regular PC, Windows 8 is Mr. Hyde: a monster that terrorizes poor office workers and strangles their productivity.

Although Win8 has usability issues on tablets, there's nothing that a modest redesign can't fix. In fact, usability could be substantially improved by revising the application guidelines to emphasize restrained use of active tiles, higher information density, better visibility of key features, and many other usability guidelines we've already discovered in testing other tablets.

(I was stunned to see the Architectural Digest app for Surface replicate a host of well-documented usability bloopers, such as not making the cover headlines clickable. Swipe ambiguity ran rampant, and users were often lost in this app's confusing combination of vertical and horizontal scrolling. All of this could have been avoided by reading reports we have published for free. I can just barely understand companies that ruin their user experience because they don't want to pay $298 to find out what the usability research says. But to create a bad app to save no money seems a puzzle.)

I have great hopes for Windows 9 on mobile and tablets. Just as Windows 7 was "Vista Done Right," it's quite likely that the touchscreen version of Windows 9 will be "Windows 8 Done Right."

The situation is much worse on regular PCs, particularly for knowledge workers doing productivity tasks in the office. This used to be Microsoft's core audience, and it has now thrown the old customer base under the bus by designing an operating system that removes a powerful PC's benefits in order to work better on smaller devices.

The underlying problem is the idea of recycling a single software UI for two very different classes of hardware devices. It would have been much better to have two different designs: one for mobile and tablets, and one for the PC.

I understand why Microsoft likes the marketing message of "One Windows, Everywhere." But this strategy is wrong for users.

I Don't Hate Microsoft

Because this column is very critical of Microsoft's main product, some people will no doubt accuse me of being an Apple fanboy or a Microsoft hater. I'm neither. I switched from Macintosh to Windows many years ago and have been very pleased with Windows 7.

I am a great fan of the dramatic "ribbon" redesign of Office (we later gave several awards to other applications that adapted this UI innovation), and I proclaimed the Kinect an "exciting advance in UI technology." I have many friends who work at Microsoft and know that it has many very talented usability researchers and UI designers on staff.

I have nothing against Microsoft. I happen to think that Windows 7 is a good product and that Windows 8 is a misguided one. I derived these conclusions from first principles of human–computer interaction theory and from watching users in our new research. One doesn't have to hate or love a company in order to analyze its UI designs.

None of this surprises me. I have full versions of every flavor of Windows 8 and I actually think that the Windows 8 Pro version on the Surface is its best and only truly good implementation. It even fails on a touch enabled All-In-One desktop from Samsung DP700A3D-A01US. We acquired one for testing the OS on a touch desktop and the gestures and overall usability is just horrible. People got tired of swiping and touching. The keyboard shortcuts do work well, and the OS is faster than Windows 7, but then the extra steps needed to do everything else just bankrupts that time savings.

windows-8-sales.jpg


The most recent data is showing that Windows 8 (all flavors) is doing worse than Windows Vista was in the same point in its release cycle. Again, I am not at all surprised. This is failing in the consumer AND the enterprise markets with no uptick in sight. The failure of excitement for W8 is also hurting new PC sales. People do not want their PC loaded with Windows 8, and they do not want to buy Windows 7 and have to attempt to regress without professional help from a geek which would cost even more money.

The enterprise has rejected it completely. So, lets hope that Windows 9 sees some major improvements and more flexibility, because no Service Pack or updates can fix what is wrong with Windows 8. We need major changes.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member

OMG, that is just SCARY! And the Kids Only version too! That is just plain scary!

All these articles and analyses on Windows 8 were done on Vista and Windows 7. They have a winner with Windows 7. It is widely adopted in the enterprise and is very secure and easy to use. The core of Windows 8 is still Windows 7, but with the new UI and separate settings for each and the Jeckyll and Hyde nature of it there is just no way to grab the average PC user with it. The tablet user finding it on the Surface Pro will LOVE IT. I even love it on that device. But that is only one rather geekish device which will most likely not make it into the hands of power users who need to do real work with it. The desktop app (that is what Desktop Mode actually is), is simply too quirky and hard to use without the start menu when you are using a keyboard and mouse.

I cant get over the similarity with AOL kids in that photo! I have never seen it like that. WOW!
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
OMG, that is just SCARY! And the Kids Only version too! That is just plain scary!

All these articles and analyses on Windows 8 were done on Vista and Windows 7. They have a winner with Windows 7. It is widely adopted in the enterprise and is very secure and easy to use. The core of Windows 8 is still Windows 7, but with the new UI and separate settings for each and the Jeckyll and Hyde nature of it there is just no way to grab the average PC user with it. The tablet user finding it on the Surface Pro will LOVE IT. I even love it on that device. But that is only one rather geekish device which will most likely not make it into the hands of power users who need to do real work with it. The desktop app (that is what Desktop Mode actually is), is simply too quirky and hard to use without the start menu when you are using a keyboard and mouse.

I cant get over the similarity with AOL kids in that photo! I have never seen it like that. WOW!

The reviews I'm reading from the experts are far worse than anything I've read on Vista. It really looks like Win 8 is gong to tank Microsoft in a big way this round. I tried Win 8 both on a laptop and on a tablet. On the laptop it's just useless and frustrating to me. A workstation isn't a tablet and will never be a tablet until tablet interfaces become so advanced that they will render keyboard & mouse absolutely useless but we're years away from anything of the sort. On a tablet it seemed better but, to me at least, it didn't feel like a serious tool. It felt more like a kid's toy. I prefer both iOS and Android over Win 8 on a tablet or smartphone device, but that's just me.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
The reviews I'm reading from the experts are far worse than anything I've read on Vista. It really looks like Win 8 is gong to tank Microsoft in a big way this round. I tried Win 8 both on a laptop and on a tablet. On the laptop it's just useless and frustrating to me. A workstation isn't a tablet and will never be a tablet until tablet interfaces become so advanced that they will render keyboard & mouse absolutely useless but we're years away from anything of the sort. On a tablet it seemed better but, to me at least, it didn't feel like a serious tool. It felt more like a kid's toy. I prefer both iOS and Android over Win 8 on a tablet or smartphone device, but that's just me.

Thats me too. Can you believe I am still in love with my Acer Iconia A500 running Ice Cream Sandwich? It is awesome with the GoLauncher UI which is perfect for the tablet. I have installed large widgets which are far more useful for information displays on a tablet. I use mine to read books, watch Netflix in my bed, read the news while sitting on the can, and even for Skype two way video calls. Of course you can do this with the latest iPad and Windows tablet too. But the beat all is the power of a Samsung Galaxy model phone. With it, you can take better video and pictures than many dedicated full cameras and camcorders, with sound to match. Plus you can use hundreds of apps and browse the internet with your voice. Its better than having a tricorder, and much more advanced than the standard Trek tricorder. They even have magnetometers, gyros and are accurate compasses. With GPS they become navigation route plotters and tracking beacons. :)
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Thats me too. Can you believe I am still in love with my Acer Iconia A500 running Ice Cream Sandwich? It is awesome with the GoLauncher UI which is perfect for the tablet. I have installed large widgets which are far more useful for information displays on a tablet. I use mine to read books, watch Netflix in my bed, read the news while sitting on the can, and even for Skype two way video calls. Of course you can do this with the latest iPad and Windows tablet too. But the beat all is the power of a Samsung Galaxy model phone. With it, you can take better video and pictures than many dedicated full cameras and camcorders, with sound to match. Plus you can use hundreds of apps and browse the internet with your voice. Its better than having a tricorder, and much more advanced than the standard Trek tricorder. They even have magnetometers, gyros and are accurate compasses. With GPS they become navigation route plotters and tracking beacons. :)

I've used my Google navigation app with turn-by-turn voice directions and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT! I hook it up via bluetooth to the car's sound system, prop it up on the center console and it turns into this uber fantastic GPS. I play my music and the music is lowered when the GPS gives directions. :D

Galaxy's "S Voice" is as good as SIRI, IMO. It even tells me it is fond of me when I ask it if it loves me. :icon_lol:

I recently compared iOS to Android's UI fluidity. Although JB has vastly improved the UI experience, there is still a flaw that is built into Android's architecture. Actually, "flaw" may depend on your POV.

It's most obvious in the Facebook app or the browser while images are loading. When you swipe down the newsfeed on the FB app, Android tends to stutter as it loads photos whereas iOS maintains consistent fluidity. So, I dug around, reading into the guts of both to find out why.

iOS prioritizes the UI over all other functions. Android prioritizes OS functions over the UI. The browser is a good example to demonstrate this. Load up a page in Android and, while the images are loading, move the pages up and down. You'll notice it stutters a little but images keep loading (once images are loaded, it's smooth as oil). If you do the same on iOS, you'll notice the images on the page stop loading while you're moving the page around with your finger and only resumes loading images once you stop. This gives the illusion that iOS is super responsive and faster. What's really happening is iOS halts all other threads whenever the user interacts with the screen.
 
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