Moon base and knowledge repository plans

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
LOL @ the propaganda! How easy is it to create hydrogen? Well, take an ordinary D sized battery, attach a wire to both poles of the battery, then put them in an ordinary glass of water. Bubbles will be seen rising from both leads. One is releasing pure hydrogen, the other pure oxygen. Simple. Swap out the battery with a solar cell, and there you have it. This weird scenario where you have plants separating it out using chemicals and complicated processes is just to prime the public for building huge hydrogen producing plants at considerable taxpayer cost. The reality of it eliminates the large corporations. Technically speaking. most single family homes have enough surface area on their roofs to generate significant amounts of hydrogen using solar cells, enough to fuel a vehicle. In addition to that, fuel cells can power the home as well. The reasons for not telling Average Joe this is because profit is eliminated.
--- merged: Dec 11, 2012 at 1:24 PM ---


Saying that the hydrogen is "oxidized" simply means that it is bound to oxygen. It can easily be liberated using a very small charge. More precisely, it takes 15.89 megajoules per liter of water.

Ok. THX


All of the new tech and resource possibilities are great, but if our infrastructure is not kept up and enhanced, we just may kill ourselves before we get to a better way. This happened today, they say it melted the interstate

AP580894943461-jpg_211752.jpg
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
Guess I should explain further...

It's just not viable right now and the infrastructure and technology isn't there yet for this to become an efficient system for automobiles. You guys seem to think all you have to do is run a little current from solar energy and presto, you have hydrogen 'fuel'. And sure it produces more energy than gasoline when you disregard all the other required infrastructure around it. But the thing is, hydrogen has a very low density which means it occupies a larger volume per mass.

So yes, storing it is one of the biggest issues that needs resolving. In addition, when you store it, you only really have two options of storage, either in liquid form or high density gaseous form for hydrogen cars. Liquid form is out because you have to put in more energy to cool it in order to keep it at a liquid state. And high density gaseous state is extremely dangerous and leads to energy decay. You never really have pure water, unless you manufacture it. You have all these residual stuff that might be in there with the hydrogen and might react with it which gives you a loss of the 'fuel' so to speak. In addition, when you have it compressed like that, you increase the interactions going on inside losing the 'fuel' and creating a hazardous atmosphere for it. The only thing I'm aware of that has been proposed to resolve this storage issue is to create some mineral or something and have the hydrogen be latently attached to it in a somewhat stable state that is not likely to decay. The volumetric issue is very significant. Plus, due to its low density and the storage issue, lends itself to another problem which would be practicality. The method you guys seem to be presenting is oh water, lets make hydrogen. No, it's not as simple as that. The low density yield forces larger storage and you can't just do the whole electrolysis in every vehicle. You need fueling stations to do that. You can't do that in a vehicle because you'd need a large tank for practical travel and range capacity for the hydrogen and in addition, you'd need a huge water tank as well to generate all the hydrogen. Plus, you have the issue of decay if you just let the car sit there with hydrogen wasting away due to interactions and potentially devastating results. If the attaching to mineral thing pans out, then maybe there's potential for automobile applications.

Other issues involve some level of purifying water so you don't get decay, scarcity of water in certain regions, and with the solar, practical amounts of solar energy generation to drive the whole thing.
 

SciphonicStranger

Objects may be closer than they appear
Guess I should explain further...

It's just not viable right now and the infrastructure and technology isn't there yet for this to become an efficient system for automobiles. You guys seem to think all you have to do is run a little current from solar energy and presto, you have hydrogen 'fuel'. And sure it produces more energy than gasoline when you disregard all the other required infrastructure around it. But the thing is, hydrogen has a very low density which means it occupies a larger volume per mass.

So yes, storing it is one of the biggest issues that needs resolving. In addition, when you store it, you only really have two options of storage, either in liquid form or high density gaseous form for hydrogen cars. Liquid form is out because you have to put in more energy to cool it in order to keep it at a liquid state. And high density gaseous state is extremely dangerous and leads to energy decay. You never really have pure water, unless you manufacture it. You have all these residual stuff that might be in there with the hydrogen and might react with it which gives you a loss of the 'fuel' so to speak. In addition, when you have it compressed like that, you increase the interactions going on inside losing the 'fuel' and creating a hazardous atmosphere for it. The only thing I'm aware of that has been proposed to resolve this storage issue is to create some mineral or something and have the hydrogen be latently attached to it in a somewhat stable state that is not likely to decay. The volumetric issue is very significant. Plus, due to its low density and the storage issue, lends itself to another problem which would be practicality. The method you guys seem to be presenting is oh water, lets make hydrogen. No, it's not as simple as that. The low density yield forces larger storage and you can't just do the whole electrolysis in every vehicle. You need fueling stations to do that. You can't do that in a vehicle because you'd need a large tank for practical travel and range capacity for the hydrogen and in addition, you'd need a huge water tank as well to generate all the hydrogen. Plus, you have the issue of decay if you just let the car sit there with hydrogen wasting away due to interactions and potentially devastating results. If the attaching to mineral thing pans out, then maybe there's potential for automobile applications.

Other issues involve some level of purifying water so you don't get decay, scarcity of water in certain regions, and with the solar, practical amounts of solar energy generation to drive the whole thing.

You must work for one of those evil oil companies. LOL
 

mzzz

Well Known GateFan
You must work for one of those evil oil companies. LOL
muwahahaha lol nah, there are real issues that need to be worked for application. Some companies already do have a little 'hydrogen' economy on the side and there's even some pipe lines dedicated to it. But only small amounts and in the end, they end up using fossil fuels to make the hydrogen in the first place, lol.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Guess I should explain further...

It's just not viable right now and the infrastructure and technology isn't there yet for this to become an efficient system for automobiles. You guys seem to think all you have to do is run a little current from solar energy and presto, you have hydrogen 'fuel'. And sure it produces more energy than gasoline when you disregard all the other required infrastructure around it. But the thing is, hydrogen has a very low density which means it occupies a larger volume per mass.

So yes, storing it is one of the biggest issues that needs resolving. In addition, when you store it, you only really have two options of storage, either in liquid form or high density gaseous form for hydrogen cars. Liquid form is out because you have to put in more energy to cool it in order to keep it at a liquid state. And high density gaseous state is extremely dangerous and leads to energy decay. You never really have pure water, unless you manufacture it. You have all these residual stuff that might be in there with the hydrogen and might react with it which gives you a loss of the 'fuel' so to speak. In addition, when you have it compressed like that, you increase the interactions going on inside losing the 'fuel' and creating a hazardous atmosphere for it. The only thing I'm aware of that has been proposed to resolve this storage issue is to create some mineral or something and have the hydrogen be latently attached to it in a somewhat stable state that is not likely to decay. The volumetric issue is very significant. Plus, due to its low density and the storage issue, lends itself to another problem which would be practicality. The method you guys seem to be presenting is oh water, lets make hydrogen. No, it's not as simple as that. The low density yield forces larger storage and you can't just do the whole electrolysis in every vehicle. You need fueling stations to do that. You can't do that in a vehicle because you'd need a large tank for practical travel and range capacity for the hydrogen and in addition, you'd need a huge water tank as well to generate all the hydrogen. Plus, you have the issue of decay if you just let the car sit there with hydrogen wasting away due to interactions and potentially devastating results. If the attaching to mineral thing pans out, then maybe there's potential for automobile applications.

Other issues involve some level of purifying water so you don't get decay, scarcity of water in certain regions, and with the solar, practical amounts of solar energy generation to drive the whole thing.

I agree with this. You cannot safely store gaseous hydrogen, and it takes more energy to liquefy it than it does to create it. . So the advances have to be made in storage. :)
 

SciphonicStranger

Objects may be closer than they appear
muwahahaha lol nah, there are real issues that need to be worked for application. Some companies already do have a little 'hydrogen' economy on the side and there's even some pipe lines dedicated to it. But only small amounts and in the end, they end up using fossil fuels to make the hydrogen in the first place, lol.

I hear ya. Natural gas would probably be a better gasoline replacement in the short term, but hollywood is all ready all over that idea. :P
 
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