Lost Civilizations and human pre- history

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Penn State was a pedophile heaven for Sandusky.
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You and Overmind One must share the same fount of pseudoscience.


we share no fount, we can read books and do web searches


and yes, Sandusky was a pervert and Penn State allowed it to happen.
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See why I prefer Mu? At least with Mu there is a (very faint) dollop of physical evidence (city ruins on the sea floor off the coast of Japan).


Read the links posted, many of these other sunken sites have ruins and tools as well. Doggerland is coincidentally in the latest issue of National Geographic. They talk about much of what was found underwater.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Your pseudoscience is worse because it purports to be science when it is not. :). The previous "science" assumed the structures were constructed by slaves when it was not. The previous "science" assumed a 4500 BC construction date for the pyramids which has also been disproven. The original "science" used carbon 14 dating which itself has been proven to be inaccurate and is no longer considered to be authoritative:

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2001/may/10/carbon-clock-could-show-the-wrong-time (this is just a convenient link. More scholarly studies are available)

So much European science has debunked ITSELF over the past couple of centuries, like phrenology, the Piltdown Man the bases for "races", yet in all those cases there had been "science" to prove their claims up to and including manmade global warming. One has to not only look at the structures and read the writings of the original peoples of these lost civilizations, but also take into account geology and timelines.

Nothing you have presented debunks the possibilities presented here EXCEPT the idea that "ancient aliens" had anything to do with any of it and I agree with that. I think that it was humans who did all of it.

I'm a lot more intrigued by recent uncovered fossils showing evidence of man and technology existing 65+ million years ago. I've always thought the Earth must have seen many civilizations rise, fall then destroyed by natural or cosmic disasters throughout its 4+ billion year history. There is no way we're the first evolved civilization on this planet.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Given some of the thoughtful feedback on the thread, I found some 'evidence' that may be more to the liking of some:

http://twitpic.com/7z17zc

though this person fails to understand the water cycle, and that he/she may actually be drinking some else's cleaned pee from upriver!

and this--indisputable proof I say!!!:

http://creationmuseum.org/whats-here/exhibits/



But here is a real question I have. For those that believe God created the world say, just 6,000 yrs ago, would it not give the creator more power for you to acknowledge that it created the entire world? Or even further back to the big bang, and set everything in motion? Why just limit his power to 6,000 years?
 

Jim of WVa

Well Known GateFan
I'm a lot more intrigued by recent uncovered fossils showing evidence of man and technology existing 65+ million years ago. I've always thought the Earth must have seen many civilizations rise, fall then destroyed by natural or cosmic disasters throughout its 4+ billion year history. There is no way we're the first evolved civilization on this planet.

Care you provide some evidence for those suppositions?
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Care you provide some evidence for those suppositions?

It's just evidence, not indisputable fact. I've been reading some articles and came across some interesting stuff on this subject. For example, a fossil of a human hand-print dating back about 110 million years:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...zling-Ancient-Artifact/Impossible-Fossils.htm

Metal tubes dug out of cretaceous chalk dating back about 65 million years:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...cient-Artifact/Out-of-Place-Metal-Objects.htm

This is relatively new territory for me. It piqued my curiosity so I just started digging up articles on this stuff to find out more. I'm not sure what's been confirmed and what's been debunked yet, though.
 

Jim of WVa

Well Known GateFan
Your pseudoscience is worse because it purports to be science when it is not. :). The previous "science" assumed the structures were constructed by slaves when it was not. The previous "science" assumed a 4500 BC construction date for the pyramids which has also been disproven. The original "science" used carbon 14 dating which itself has been proven to be inaccurate and is no longer considered to be authoritative:

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2001/may/10/carbon-clock-could-show-the-wrong-time (this is just a convenient link. More scholarly studies are available)

So much European science has debunked ITSELF over the past couple of centuries, like phrenology, the Piltdown Man the bases for "races", yet in all those cases there had been "science" to prove their claims up to and including manmade global warming. One has to not only look at the structures and read the writings of the original peoples of these lost civilizations, but also take into account geology and timelines.

Nothing you have presented debunks the possibilities presented here EXCEPT the idea that "ancient aliens" had anything to do with any of it and I agree with that. I think that it was humans who did all of it.

Western science is a self-evaluating system. It was western science that debunked: carbon dating (other forms of radioactive dating are OK), phrenology (but this lead to modern neuropsychology), astrology, and Piltdown Man. Human races are real (in a statistical sense). Manmade global warming is real (but not that big of a deal).

You have presented no evidence to suggest that the ancient Egyptians used practical electrical technology, aside from basic static electricity novelties. Tesla never developed a working technique for the wireless transmission of electrical power. There was nothing for General Electric to hide from the public.
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It's just evidence, not indisputable fact. I've been reading some articles and came across some interesting stuff on this subject. For example, a fossil of a human hand-print dating back about 110 million years:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...zling-Ancient-Artifact/Impossible-Fossils.htm

Metal tubes dug out of cretaceous chalk dating back about 65 million years:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...cient-Artifact/Out-of-Place-Metal-Objects.htm

This is relatively new territory for me. It piqued my curiosity so I just started digging up articles on this stuff to find out more. I'm not sure what's been confirmed and what's been debunked yet, though.

Some of the items appear to be the product of erroneous dating. Radioactive dating is as much an art as it is a science.

This particular item:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...rtifact/Ancient-springs--screws-and-metal.htm

Appears to be the result of artifact contamination from the mining equipment.

Some of the problemata artifacts could be the work of fraudsters.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
It's just evidence, not indisputable fact. I've been reading some articles and came across some interesting stuff on this subject. For example, a fossil of a human hand-print dating back about 110 million years:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...zling-Ancient-Artifact/Impossible-Fossils.htm

Metal tubes dug out of cretaceous chalk dating back about 65 million years:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/anci...cient-Artifact/Out-of-Place-Metal-Objects.htm

This is relatively new territory for me. It piqued my curiosity so I just started digging up articles on this stuff to find out more. I'm not sure what's been confirmed and what's been debunked yet, though.


these things are interesting.

human nature causes many of us to believe we are the "be all end all" and that no one/thing before us could have equaled us or bettered us.

the native americans have some interesting beliefs on who was here, and now perhaps, live under ground:

http://www.crystalinks.com/nativeamerundercities.html

but as i said before, all the ancient alien theorists and the nature in which they proceed gives any serious questioning of these things an ill-repute of 'quackery' and therefore, largely ignored.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Not a totally "lost" civ, since it is known from other finds and cuneiform 'documents'. But still interesting how more and more stuff is being dug up where previously nothing was suspected of.

Interesting to see what is below this city, specifically, how old does this city's pre-history date to?

from LIVESCIENCE via Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-kingdom-discovered-beneath-mound-iraq-115920338.html
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Putting this here because there is no other thread appropriate

and the fact that the Chinese once had a huge ocean going fleet is "lost" on most people

It has been proven through DNA that these fleets reached the Arabian Peninsula and the East coast of Africa, so I do not see why it such a stretch to think they made it to the Americas

For yet unknown reasons, after several voyages, the Fleet of Admiral Zheng was ordered burned at dock by the Chinese Emperor.

It is said that Columbus had either a copy of Zheng's map or knowledge of its features (he saw a copy), the map in this story is a later reproduction but its info is supported as being older knowledge through Chinese written accounts.

How might the world look now if the Chinese had continued as a sea power and made permanent settlement in the America's? They may have "boxed out" the early Spanish and Portuguese explorers who sailed to the Pacific.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...olumbus--according-to-new-book-201051307.html
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
I agree OM1. I just used the "6,000" yrs time for starters.

Another area to look at-that may be getting close to being "solved", is the question of who the ancient Sumerians were and where they came from (I only used wiki since i have read much of what is there in other sources)

the Sumerians referred to themselves as "the black headed people". in addition to the theory in the article on their origins, new theories-revealed after the "lost towns" were found under the Persian Gulf-suggest that they may have been ecological refugees coming from the south and then sunken land. Adjacent to this "sunken land" is the current southern area of the Arabian peninsula. Cultures with some similarities--but not enough to be conclusive-have been found in the areas of modern day Yemen and Qatar.

the Sumerians are a bit of a mystery because-as of now-they have no close 'relatives' either by haplogroup or linguistically.

the people of Mohenjo Daro and Harrappa are equally mysterious. their cities had piped in water and closed sewage systems, thousands of years before the Romans 'discovered' how to do this. They had a unique egalitarian system where no one was held to be in a higher or lower position then any other. Their priests were seen as their leaders and served on a rotating basis. this of course came to an end when the Aryans arrived. The sites of Mohenjo Daro and Harrappa are irradiated, scientists say that at the center of each town a flattened area reminiscent of Nagasaki after the bomb, exists. Many skeletons unearthed at these sites have a high radiation content. Of course there are arguments as to whether this radiation is just a natural occurrence or deliberate attack. The Aryan Vedic texts give descriptions of ancient wars that describe "flying objects" and a weapon that brightened the sky brighter then the sun:

http://www.beforeus.com/indusa.htm


If you look at the story of Gilgamesh -held as man's first novel- it contains many familiar tales we read in our bibles and koran. the flood of Noah, the expulsion from Eden (the 'submerged land'?) and the stories in the bible attributed to Abraham have parallels in Gilgamesh.

An interesting part for me is the story of Enkidu. Enkidu was a "hairy wild man". When Gilgamesh wanted his people tamed a temple prostitute was sent out to win Enkidu's heart and bring him civilization. It has more to the story, but basically what I thought of when I read it was -how old is this story? how long was it passed down verbally from father to son? If it was passed down for generations is it a cultural memory of modern man's first clash with Neanderthal's. (Many of us of central asian and southern european background have Neanderthal "genes" proof of interbreeding (http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics-neanderthal-110718.html) Academia still has its hold out naysayers, but it is hard to dispute DNA results.

After his taming, Enkidu and his people became "friends" with the Sumerian people of Gilgamesh.


We still tell tales of mythologies at least 1-2,000yrs old today (ex:clash of the titans) That is how long ago their first writings were made, so how long were they passed down verbally before that?

Aboriginal elders in Australia can still today recount the generational tales of their tribes going back several hundred(?) generations--this has all been carried forth by word of mouth.


more interesting finds with Sumerian "calling cards"--that is, cuneiform found in areas of the world where it should not be

<<though, it could be entirely possible that say,a Roman bought this tablet from a trader after its being dug up in mesopotamia (Just what DID the ancients think when they dug up stuff older then themselves anyhow?) and kept it in his villa in today's Austria>>

the fact that this tablet is very similar in appearance to a cell phone is interesting as well--doesn't mean that it IS a depiction of a cell phone though

its been dated to ancient Sumeria-verified

just using this website because they have the pics of the "phone" tablet, the South American bowl with Sumerian cuneiform, and the table with cuneiform alphabet on one page

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/12/ancient-tablet-looks-like-cell-phone-with-cuneiform-keys/

three-phone-570x184.jpg
 
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Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
and univac said let there be light......
 

Gate_Boarder

Well Known GateFan
Just a quick blip from someone who believes his ancestors were not dumber than ducks like some of the "Ancient Alien" crowd want us to believe.

On a few of the Sumerian pictographs we are shown wrist watches on the Anunnaki's forearms. That's funny, I just thought, where are the female gods?
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Just a quick blip from someone who believes his ancestors were not dumber than ducks like some of the "Ancient Alien" crowd want us to believe.

On a few of the Sumerian pictographs we are shown wrist watches on the Anunnaki's forearms. That's funny, I just thought, where are the female gods?

we do not need to see them because we instinctively know that they are represented by the wrist watches they put on their god/husbands!!
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member

The person who made the video is not a scientist. He is a former ancient astronaut believer (I never believed such nonsense). Those theories alone are the result of Eurocentric notions that ancient people (none of whom are European) must have been visited by aliens in order to build/invent the advanced technologies obviously necessary to execute them.

His opinion is no more valid than yours or mine. The only thing I am very sure of is that there were no ancient aliens involved. He is debunking what he saw on the Ancient Aliens show on the History Channel (which is popcorn for gullibles). He is not debunking actual data.
 
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Jim of WVa

Well Known GateFan
The person who made the video is not a scientist. He is a former ancient astronaut believer (I never believed such nonsense). Those theories alone are the result of Eurocentric notions that ancient people (none of whom are European) must have been visited by aliens in order to build/invent the advanced technologies obviously necessary to execute them.

His opinion is no more valid than yours or mine. The only thing I am very sure of is that there were no ancient aliens involved. He is debunking what he saw on the Ancient Aliens show on the History Channel (which is popcorn for gullibles). He is not debunking actual data.

The video disproved all attempts to show the Egyptians as having any form of electric light.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
The video disproved all attempts to show the Egyptians as having any form of electric light.

No, it did not. It proved nothing at all. It was an individual's self-help video coming out of a place where he actually believed once that ancient aliens came to earth and built things and "helped" the ancient humans. That notion was ALWAYS nonsense. This person is not a scientist, and he presents nothing to "prove" anything.

As far as Dendera, nobody has proved anything one way or another. This man's claim that there was soot on the ceilings of these structures is patently false. Several of them are painted, in fact. The totality of structures and interior spaces deep within mountains or the pyramids is still a mystery. But these two elements are the source of speculation about ancient electricity:

From the temple at Dendera. Nobody knows what is depicted in this carving, but the reason for speculation is obvious:

ancient-lightbulb-600x384.jpg


Then there are these batteries:

baghdad-battery1.jpg


Like I said, nobody has proven (or disproven) anything at all. You can believe whatever you will, and so will I and whomever else sees it. I think the main reason to have interest in lost civilizations is because somewhere in our minds is the knowledge that we have done all this shit before. Just IMO. :)
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
No, it did not. It proved nothing at all. It was an individual's self-help video coming out of a place where he actually believed once that ancient aliens came to earth and built things and "helped" the ancient humans. That notion was ALWAYS nonsense. This person is not a scientist, and he presents nothing to "prove" anything.

As far as Dendera, nobody has proved anything one way or another. This man's claim that there was soot on the ceilings of these structures is patently false. Several of them are painted, in fact. The totality of structures and interior spaces deep within mountains or the pyramids is still a mystery. But these two elements are the source of speculation about ancient electricity:

From the temple at Dendera. Nobody knows what is depicted in this carving, but the reason for speculation is obvious:

View attachment 32519

Then there are these batteries:

View attachment 32520

Like I said, nobody has proven (or disproven) anything at all. You can believe whatever you will, and so will I and whomever else sees it. I think the main reason to have interest in lost civilizations is because somewhere in our minds is the knowledge that we have done all this shit before. Just IMO. :)

harnessing electric is a fairly basic idea and only requires a very low level of tech,yes? like say, a kite attached to a key?

from there, it is just one more step to create wires to conduct (say like horse or camel hair or papyrus wrapped bronze,copper,silver or gold) and a thin piece of pottery as a "bulb" --with its own filament of human or animal hair--

the insides of the pyramids and other deep construction sites HAD to be illuminated. and with no burn or smoke residue on the stones--except some have been found but dated to far more recent activity like grave robbers-- there seems to be little other manner of illumination to the brightness needed to make the finely intricate carvings and paintings found within

and then--the ancient Egyptians (and other ppls) MUST have had some advanced level of tech (remember it does not have to be our tech-just one that provided the results in a diff manner) with the way they achieved near perfect symmetry in their stone carvings-to include in granite! and all of the other things they accomplished-like how they moved stone objects of massive weight that we would have a diff time moving today with our heavy machinery

there is an answer of course-I think someday more digs and other reveals will show us how they did it

now, if only Caesar didn't burn down that library!! :daniel_new004: :nono:
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Like I said, nobody has proven (or disproven) anything at all. You can believe whatever you will, and so will I and whomever else sees it. I think the main reason to have interest in lost civilizations is because somewhere in our minds is the knowledge that we have done all this shit before. Just IMO. :)

And do not forget,how much of that info or natural knowledge/innate abilities was lost from humanity after the world wide ravages of things like the Black Death

it hit nearly world wide (Vietnam to Ireland/ north africa to siberia) with an astounding ability to wipe out entire family lines/gene pools. When we consider that nearly every European and north Asian, north African alive today is descended from those few who survived these plagues, then we also start to wonder about the other implications; those "natural abilities" of invention; inherited immunities to other diseases and viral/bacterial immunites--and we may never know just what else was lost too
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
well, i guess when you a certain age, you tend to become more 'certain' on things

i'd say i am less then 1% away from saying i am certain on something, not that it is really important or that anyone other then us geeks here would care.

they would have to find what is now a 'negative evidence' to the contrary to make me change my mind

this has NOTHING TO DO WITH ALIENS, or alien astronaut theory

totally terrestrial and human

i am near convinced that certain areas of our planet once were home to advanced civilizations.

duh? right?

well, not the 'advanced' that conventional fact admits to, but advanced and then lost

the areas i base on what is know and accepted as fact by archaeology whatever history (the written word) that has been found

these are--the nile valley and delta, the littoral of the european atlantic from the iberian penisula through france and into britain and ireland, the indus valley, the euphrates and tigris valleys, certai nareas of the black sea coast

of course this would include the following peoples-or more-

Egyptians, sumerians, the proto basque ppl of iberia and france, the pre celtic ppls of france, iberai, britain and ireland (the henge builders), the unkown ppls of the upper euphrates who built places like Golbeke Tepe (in syria) whose buildings are dated to be at least as old as the Pyramids and earlier eghyptian construction, the proto iranian ppls of the indus valley (mohenjo daro, harrapa) , and the unknown, maybe proto sycthian or very ancient greek ppls who populated the 'sunken lands' in the black sea who remains have been found recently by undersea exploration--the sites PRE DATE the last glacial meltdown,, another words they existed at some point during the last ice age!


of course there are a few other areas around the world, just limiting

i believe that the culture of Egypt existed from a time DURING THE LAST ICE AGE, the same with Sumeria and of course Gobelke tepe. the henge builders of europe/britain were seemingly not as advanced and seem to be a bit later in time, but still dated further back then conventional wisdom wants to allow--they know it, just do not know how to 'package it'

the civ's of the Indus-- If we want, lets leave out the writings of present day tech like atom bombs and flying vehicles that are in 'history (remember, actual history is the 'study of the written word' in any medium)' like the Mahabharata and other vedic and hindu texts. these texts are based on the oral traditions that were passed down for perhaps millennia before they were finally out to the written word sometime between 1,000 and 700 bc (range varies)

the physical evidence at Mohenjo Daro and Harrappa,thought to be contemporary cities. shows advanced knowledge of water distribution and sewage-they used closed pipes that were connected to almost every structure. the city was laid out in grid form,something not very much done until the much later advent of the romans-

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/archaeology-and-history/archaeology/mohenjo-daro/

and before the rise of these two cities? well, an area not far away as resulted in heavy reading of radiation. and yes, the 'experts' -stamped and accredited by accepted academia-all say that it does not exist because no one has done a research paper that has been peer reviewed!

"Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945."

http://www.indiadivine.org/8000-year-old-indian-city-irradiated-by-atomic-blast/

and just who would do the peer review? no one. no one who fears for losing their status or being kicked out of the 'clubhouse' (ala Daniel in stargate) JUST because some hack hasn't written an academic study that has been published and peer reviewed MAKE SOMETHING untrue or a non event. it just can't be controlled or fully understood, so it is 'debunked' and called hokum

before i get going and make this post TOO LONG, i'll just say that:

i believe that humans in these well watered and peaceful places were able to adopt agriculture and animal domestication and thereby, free time to think and invent, at A MUCH earlier time then conventionally held by modern science

that these areas came under attack--if they survived the ice cap melt that is--by ppls who were still nomadic hunters and more warlike from the north. i also blame these ppls for the 'invention' of things like fear and idolatry based and non nature based religions--but that is another story

the archaeological evidence gleaned through the study of where the items/cities/ bones and artifacts lay in the soil layer and carbon dating, cannot be ignored. no matter how much academia tries to get us to 'look the other way' the info is out there and it was obtained ,in many cases ,by members of that very same academia!

i firmly believe that 'flying machines' were entirely possible by these ppls. hey, make an airtight sack large enough-like stitched together animal skins treated with a lightweight oily substance, and you could make a hot air balloon--that flies, right? why most we be limited in our thinking to only accept that some french dude came up with a hot air balloon in the 18th cent.?

and the stories of humanity

look at how we still treat the ancient mythology of Greece and Egypt? we still make movies and write books on the stuff.

now consider how long ago these stories were written down by the greeks and egyptians and HOW LONG before that were they just oral history?

now consider the anceint sumerian epic of gilgamesh

http://www.ancient.eu/gilgamesh/


yes ,we know that the genesis stories of creation and the flood were 'lifted' from that book. these books are ascribed to have been written by the latter family of abraham- abraham being a exile from mesopotamia would have known these stories and passed them down to his children.

in gilgamesh look at the story of enkidu

enkidu was a "hairy wild man" who lived with a few others like him in the hills and woodlands outside of civilization

he is described as a 'beast' who only tamed after a temple prostitute was sent by Gilgamesh to win him to his side

so who was this "hairy, wild beast" who preferred to live with his ppl in the wilds away from the city?

well, the written version of gilgamesh is about 4000 yrs old (on tablets)

so how long was this a oral history before the invention of cuneiform writing?

the story bears the fractious nature of other stories that we know were oral only and then written after and could not be 'edited' for whatever reason--so it is known that it has been around for awhile before going into writing

how old? i believe that the story of enkidu at least, is a story based on generational memory of the last of the neanderthal--who we KNOW lived in the same places that were on the edges of Sumer--modern day northern iraq, syria, southern turkey, israel. that this story is at least 5-6000 yrs older then its written form

the description of Enkidu matches our thoughts when we think of neanderthal. brutish, hairy, 'cavemen' who probably avoided modern humans as much as possible. and, thanks to dna, we now know, did eventually mix with modern humans. is the story of enkidu and how gilgamesh battled him but could not beat him and then became good friends --after gil sent the hooker to him that is-- just an allegory for how human memory and passed down stories account for those 'bogey men'' who lived on the fringes and how they were eventually tamed and bred in when they could not be stamped out?

i think so

i leave it at that and hope someone has an opinion that is more then a sentence long :)
 
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