Guy went to sentinal island and gets killed

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
That island is off limits because it has people that haven't evolved for thousands of years. That was a pretty stupid if you ask me. I wonder what part of don't go there or you'll die flew over his head?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/21/asia/andaman-nicobar-us-missionary-killed-intl/index.html

Hate to be so crass, but that guy deserved it.

"John loved people, and he loved Jesus. He was willing to give his life to force upon share Jesus with the people on North Sentinel island," Staver said in a press release. "Ever since high school, John wanted to go to North Sentinel to share Jesus with this indigenous people."

:rolleye0014: And he got his wish (bolded). Why do religious zealots assume that anyone wants to sit back and have religion forced upon them from an outsider who has invaded their space? If I were one of those natives, I would see an invader from a foreign land, bringing foreign ideas which have no relevance or benefit to their society. I just can't feel sorry for him.
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
Hate to be so crass, but that guy deserved it.

"John loved people, and he loved Jesus. He was willing to give his life to force upon share Jesus with the people on North Sentinel island," Staver said in a press release. "Ever since high school, John wanted to go to North Sentinel to share Jesus with this indigenous people."

:rolleye0014: And he got his wish (bolded). Why do religious zealots assume that anyone wants to sit back and have religion forced upon them from an outsider who has invaded their space? If I were one of those natives, I would see an invader from a foreign land, bringing foreign ideas which have no relevance or benefit to their society. I just can't feel sorry for him.

Yeah agree. They should be allowed to worship their version of their beliefs. Nobody likes to be told what to do especially after thousands of years. We may call Him by different names but He is the same guy!
 
Yeah agree. They should be allowed to worship their version of their beliefs. Nobody likes to be told what to do especially after thousands of years. We may call Him by different names but He is the same guy!

I'm not so sure about that. What about people that don't believe in any "guy"? Or what if that guy is really a gal? What if your guy doesn't believe what my guy believes? How can they be the same guy? More importantly, since you admit that "nobody likes to be told what to do" why do you contradict yourself in the next sentence by claiming that we all accept the existence of some ubiquitous "guy"??? :daniel_new004:
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
I'm not so sure about that. What about people that don't believe in any "guy"? Or what if that guy is really a gal? What if your guy doesn't believe what my guy believes? How can they be the same guy? More importantly, since you admit that "nobody likes to be told what to do" why do you contradict yourself in the next sentence by claiming that we all accept the existence of some ubiquitous "guy"??? :daniel_new004:

Naw it's not like that PussyGore. Everybody got to believe in something it's a thing called faith. You know like you breathe air but you don't see it right? You believe in gravity but you don't see it right? He doesn't force anybody to believe in Him so you have freedom to choose whatever you like. But still it doesn't mean believers have the right to force that belief down your throat. There are genuine people of faith who also believe in respecting others beliefs and then there are those preachy arrogant mofos who think it's their duty to force their belief down everyone's throats. That guy is of the latter so I don't have sympathy for people like that.
 

Lord Ba'al

Well Known GateFan
I reject the notion that is necessary for a person to have "a faith". It is completely un-necessary. Somehow people who have "a faith" appear to be incapable of comprehending that very simple fact.
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
I reject the notion that is necessary for a person to have "a faith". It is completely un-necessary. Somehow people who have "a faith" appear to be incapable of comprehending that very simple fact.

Ah Lord Balls let me ask you this. Do you know for sure tomorrow will be? What tangible proof do you have that you will wake up and that the world will not end tomorrow? That's faith right there by definition!
 
Ah Lord Balls let me ask you this. Do you know for sure tomorrow will be? What tangible proof do you have that you will wake up and that the world will not end tomorrow? That's faith right there by definition!

Balls is not asserting anything about the world ending tomorrow. It's Intro to Logic #101 that the burden of proof is on the one making an assertion. LB isn't telling you to take anything on faith; he is not making an assertion. The only one making assertions here is you, Jass.

BTW, it's also Intro to Logic #101 that you can't prove a negative. I would explain the point further but don't really feel up to going toe-to-toe with the Kentucky education system. ;)
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
Balls is not asserting anything about the world ending tomorrow. It's Intro to Logic #101 that the burden of proof is on the one making an assertion. LB isn't telling you to take anything on faith; he is not making an assertion. The only one making assertions here is you, Jass.

BTW, it's also Intro to Logic #101 that you can't prove a negative. I would explain the point further but don't really feel up to going toe-to-toe with the Kentucky education system. ;)

Ah Pussy Gore I never said he was asserting anything but merely putting a view in perspective of another. The same way you're not concerned about waking tomorrow or that the sun will rise and you will be there to see it is how faith works. You don't have tangible proof. You have nothing in your hands that shows tomorrow you will still exist and the world will still be here. That's how faith works.
 

Twalet Brash

GateFans Member
Ah Pussy Gore I never said he was asserting anything but merely putting a view in perspective of another. The same way you're not concerned about waking tomorrow or that the sun will rise and you will be there to see it is how faith works. You don't have tangible proof. You have nothing in your hands that shows tomorrow you will still exist and the world will still be here. That's how faith works.

Where your argument falls apart is that you've already experienced waking up and the sunrise countless times throughout your life whereas your exposure to the other is limited to tales you were told growing up. Tomorrow is an inevitability. Whether the world will be there tomorrow or not is a question of odds, not faith.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Ah Lord Balls let me ask you this. Do you know for sure tomorrow will be? What tangible proof do you have that you will wake up and that the world will not end tomorrow? That's faith right there by definition!

I know you are from Kentucky, which is why I have not weighed in on the religious aspect of the topic. Religion is VERY big in your state, and the state itself has just about merged evangelism into government. Also, this is going deeper into religion than the site usually allows but nobody is complaining yet. :). Most of us here are either non-religious or athiest, but I think one or two here are Christians. I consider myself a Deist which is not a religion but still holds that there is something more than the physical universe involved in existence. Deists are not at odds with science, and do not anthropomorphize the greater being, yet understand that no proof can be offered to support the existence of something greater being involved in the workings of the universe. No religion, no "holy book", no sins or heaven or hell or "divine morality" exists in Deism. As such, no faith is necessary.

Having said that, the natives this guy was going to try and "save" may have their own religion, or may not have a religion at all. His assumption that they needed to be saved by Jesus got him killed. How would you feel if Satanists came to your door to save you from Jesus and introduce you to to Satan?
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
I know you are from Kentucky, which is why I have not weighed in on the religious aspect of the topic. Religion is VERY big in your state, and the state itself has just about merged evangelism into government. Also, this is going deeper into religion than the site usually allows but nobody is complaining yet. :). Most of us here are either non-religious or athiest, but I think one or two here are Christians. I consider myself a Deist which is not a religion but still holds that there is something more than the physical universe involved in existence. Deists are not at odds with science, and do not anthropomorphize the greater being, yet understand that no proof can be offered to support the existence of something greater being involved in the workings of the universe. No religion, no "holy book", no sins or heaven or hell or "divine morality" exists in Deism. As such, no faith is necessary.

Having said that, the natives this guy was going to try and "save" may have their own religion, or may not have a religion at all. His assumption that they needed to be saved by Jesus got him killed. How would you feel if Satanists came to your door to save you from Jesus and introduce you to to Satan?

Oh hell to the no! I like to think that our beliefs are our own and we should never try to force our beliefs on others. So I don't feel any pity or remorse for that guy or people like him who push themselves and their beliefs into people's faces. If you want to learn something from me I will teach it but I won't tie you to a chair to force feed it to you. Besides, I think every one of us will be judged when we meet our maker so we'll see who goes to hell and who goes through the pearly gates when the time comes! :D
 
Regarding this guy who went to the North Sentinal island and got pin cushioned, his story is oddly similar to that of Ferdinand Magellan who also engaged in a bout of religious conversion zealotry with the natives of the Philippines shortly before meeting his end as a poison arrow pin cushion himself. The only difference between the two being that Magellan is remembered as the first guy to circumnavigate the globe while Chau will only be remembered as an idiot who flouted common sense dictates of survival.

https://www.history.com/topics/exploration/ferdinand-magellan
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Ah Lord Balls let me ask you this. Do you know for sure tomorrow will be? What tangible proof do you have that you will wake up and that the world will not end tomorrow? That's faith right there by definition!

Is it faith? The entire concept of "tomorrow" is based upon the fact that this planet we are living on rotates. The period of time in darkness and the period of time in light is determined by how fast it rotates. You could stop "tomorrow" simply by stopping the spinning of the earth. That is science, not faith. But religion has tied the coming of "tomorrow" with gods waking and sleeping, with something swallowing another, by elaborate stories about God lighting a candle, etc. All that was needed to believe any of those stories was faith. :)
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
Is it faith? The entire concept of "tomorrow" is based upon the fact that this planet we are living on rotates. The period of time in darkness and the period of time in light is determined by how fast it rotates. You could stop "tomorrow" simply by stopping the spinning of the earth. That is science, not faith. But religion has tied the coming of "tomorrow" with gods waking and sleeping, with something swallowing another, by elaborate stories about God lighting a candle, etc. All that was needed to believe any of those stories was faith. :)

Tomatoes, tomatoes, man! To each his own, I guess. I'll pray for you! :D
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Tomatoes, tomatoes, man! To each his own, I guess. I'll pray for you! :D

:) Okay. Hey, I gotta ask you, since you are in that area, have you visited Ken Ham's Creation Museum and Ark Park? Are you a creationist? If you don't feel comfortable answering that, please don't. ;)
 

Hugh Jass

GateFans Cadet
:) Okay. Hey, I gotta ask you, since you are in that area, have you visited Ken Ham's Creation Museum and Ark Park? Are you a creationist? If you don't feel comfortable answering that, please don't. ;)

I haven't ever visited a creationist museum. I am a creationist but I am of the firm belief that God pushed along our creation over millions of years not that he literally waved his magic hand and we appeared. My beliefs are more in line with the catholic church and less with evangelicals who think the universe is all about them. I also believe Noah's ark is a metaphor to explain that God spared the good when he destroyed everything to start over. I doubt an old guy could have built a boat large enough to carry two of every species of animal in existence! :D
 
I haven't ever visited a creationist museum. I am a creationist but I am of the firm belief that God pushed along our creation over millions of years not that he literally waved his magic hand and we appeared. My beliefs are more in line with the catholic church and less with evangelicals who think the universe is all about them. I also believe Noah's ark is a metaphor to explain that God spared the good when he destroyed everything to start over. I doubt an old guy could have built a boat large enough to carry two of every species of animal in existence! :D

Correct, Noah's Ark is just an amalgamation of several fictional world flood stories that predate the Old Testament. It most definitely is not an original tale. The same with the Ten Commandments which are predated by numerous other codes of conduct such as Babylonian law, the Code of Ur-Nammu, the Code of Hammurabi, etc.
 

Lord Ba'al

Well Known GateFan
Ah Lord Balls let me ask you this. Do you know for sure tomorrow will be? What tangible proof do you have that you will wake up and that the world will not end tomorrow? That's faith right there by definition!
Others have already given some excellent replies to this, but since you quoted me I suppose I owe you one as well.

I'm pretty certain that tomorrow will be. Even if the world doesn't exist anymore tomorrow, it will be tomorrow elsewhere. Whether or not you consider that tomorrow is as Overmind said a concept based on the experience we have on our planet, the time period we have specified as an earth day will continue to be the same. The passage of time is not based on the existence of ourselves or our planet. Before I go to sleep, I might think about things I might be doing the next day. I don't worry myself about whether or not I will wake up the next day. I just assume out of habit that I will wake up the next day. But if I didn't, then what? So I didn't wake up. How is that going to affect me? It isn't! Nothing for me to be concerned about if I'm not awake or alive anymore. It would affect people who love me as they would miss me if I were no longer here, but it would make no difference for me as I wouldn't be here to be aware of the fact that I'm no longer here. If the world does end tomorrow, that would be a shame, but I would consider it a privilege just to be able to have been along for the ride.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I haven't ever visited a creationist museum. I am a creationist but I am of the firm belief that God pushed along our creation over millions of years not that he literally waved his magic hand and we appeared. My beliefs are more in line with the catholic church and less with evangelicals who think the universe is all about them. I also believe Noah's ark is a metaphor to explain that God spared the good when he destroyed everything to start over. I doubt an old guy could have built a boat large enough to carry two of every species of animal in existence! :D

Do you realize that what you have said is contradictory to the Catholic church? Creation over "millions of years" is directly in conflict with Genesis, and so is your realization that God did NOT simply will Man into existence by balling up mud. But say that God created us over millions of years...where does that leave Adam and Eve and the snake and the magic bread and fish that Jesus used to feed thousands. What about zombie Jesus who rose from the dead?

I would suggest you study Deism and take a look at Buddhism as well. Just for fun. :) Unlike athiests, deists maintain that the universe itself is a sentient being, being itself. It maintains that everything we see in the universe (and everything we don't see) is the result of "design", but not at all influenced by the existence of Man or any other living creature. There is no divine morality, no divine laws of society, and no book. Deists do not believe that Man is any more special than any other life form, and Man's existence is not necessarily the pinnacle of creation. A true scientist can still be a Deist and not be in conflict with anything in science. It isn't a religion, it is a philosophy. I have also studied Buddhism which has a similar foundation. Anything in religions which are at odds with scientific reality like the creation in 6 days, "holy spirits", miracles, demons, the existence of a heaven and hell and "sin" are not part of Deism.
 
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