Experiencing the M1 Mac

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
As some here may be aware, Apple is in the process of migrating its Mac lineup from Intel and x86/CISC to its own custom silicon and ARMv9/RISC. I had the opportunity late last year to acquire one of the new M1 Macs. This is a fan less MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256 GB SSD. So, what is it like?

First things first, this thing is ridiculously fast and responsive. The benchmarks out there showing M1 blowing everything but the most expensive gaming class CPUs out of the water (and with those it is standing tow to toe) are turning out to be right. Applications literally blink open and closed. Everything just screams - and this is a FANLESS notebook. And it doesn’t even get super warm or throttle down. As to compatibility between Intel and M1 compiled software it comes with a translator built in (Rosetta2) and Apple even took advantage of the SOC architecture here (more on that later) to build in a block where typically hard to translate x86 code gets a special co-processor.

So, how is it doing this? Not only does it blow all x86 CPUs away it runs rings around all the ARM SOCs. The answer here is Apple’s in house designed microarchitecture (Which has strange resemblances to Intel’s Core2 architecture... :D ). In simple terms, Apple’s in house microarchitecture (called A series on iPhones and lower end iPads and M on Macs and the iPad Pro) processes at least double the number of instructions per clock cycle than anyone else. The Pipeline is 8 wide which is insanely huge - the closest is AMDs top end Ryzen at 4 wide. This enables the apple SOCs to do a lot more work at a much lower clock speed so they are extremely efficient.

And M1 is also doing something new in that this is a laptop using an SOC and even better - one will a full Unified Memory Model and with the RAM actually on die which reduces the RAM lag to virtually zero. On the downside you can’t user upgrade the RAM, on the upside the RAM speed is ridiculously high and even the SSD while a separate module is positioned right next to the SOC to again reduce distance and increase performance. The SOC also contains an 8 core GPU and a series of other blocks with things like Machine Learning, hardware based security and other modules.

Right now M1 has 8 CPU Cores (4 Performance and 4 Efficiency - the mixed core types is another first for a Personal Computer), 8 GPU cores and 16 Machine Learning cores plus other blocks. In a few weeks the next iteration is expected to change that to 8 Performance Cores and 16 GPU Cores while the rest stay stable. This will be interesting to follow as it represents in some ways the hardware future for Personal Computing.
 
Last edited:

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Oh, and there is an interesting backstory here on how Apple of all companies wound up with the most advanced mobile AND desktop/laptop silicon out there.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Oh, and there is an interesting backstory here on how Apple of all companies wound up with the most advanced mobile AND desktop/laptop silicon out there.
What is the graphics architecture, and does it support VR gaming? Apple is lagging significantly in this area.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Actually the octocore GPU in the M1 has already been shown to be significantly faster than all integrated graphics in existence and faster than a good deal of discrete GPUs also. It seems to come in somewhere around a Nvidia GTX 1650 when talking discrete. VR would be a software question in terms of whether the VR package has a Mac version - if it is M1 native it of course will be a lot faster.

Obviously performance is going to shoot up when the next iteration lands as the core count will be doubling.
 
Last edited:

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Actually the octocore GPU in the M1 has already been shown to be significantly faster than all integrated graphics in existence and faster than a good deal of discrete GPUs also. It seems to come in somewhere around a Nvidia GTX 1650 when talking discrete. VR would be a software question in terms of whether the VR package has a Mac version - if it is M1 native it of course will be a lot faster.

Obviously performance is going to shoot up when the next iteration lands as the core count will be doubling.
The minimum graphics GPU for VR is a GTX 970. So far, nothing Apple makes is capable of running any VR headset from any manufacturer, and I hope that changes. To be fair, most PC laptops have separate graphics cards and do not go the integrated route. The Alienware and HP and Lenovo gaming laptops all use separate internal graphics cards. In addition, Valve dropped SteamVR support for Apple products in May of 2020. Apple needs a VR platform of its own.

 
Last edited:

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Actually yes M1 is more than capable of running VR; just needs a software package. Also Apple is working on their own VR platform. Remember here also the entire M1 SOCs is a roughly 10-15W part while something like a GTX 970 is a 100-140W part. Currently Apple is expected to unveil the next SOC in this family (called either M1X or M2) at WWDC on June 7th. Depending on which source one trusts this SOC will increase the CPU core count to 12 and the GPU core count will quadruple to 32, with corresponding increases in on die RAM and cache and controllers and ML (Machine Learning) cores.
 
Last edited:

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Actually yes M1 is more than capable of running VR; just needs a software package. Also Apple is working on their own VR platform. Remember here also the entire M1 SOCs is a roughly 10-15W part while something like a GTX 970 is a 100-140W part. Currently Apple is expected to unveil the next SOC in this family (called either M1X or M2) at WWDC on June 7th. Depending on which source one trusts this SOC will increase the CPU core count to 12 and the GPU core count will quadruple to 32, with corresponding increases in on die RAM and cache and controllers and ML (Machine Learning) cores.
If only Apple would make their hardware compatible with existing computer-tethered VR headsets that would be a start. There is already the USB-C connection. Most all of the headsets are using a combination of DisplayPort+USB-C for VR, with the HP Reverb G2 needing those plus a provided power adapter that plugs into the wall for extra power in the display. The Quest 2 only needs the USB-C connection since it does the processing on the device. Even though the Quest 2 is almost standalone when tethered to a PC, it still will not work on a Mac. Not because the hardware is not capable, but because Apple does not want it to work. They would rather wait to come out with their own VR platform, but without Steam, I do not see how that will work. Make the Apple laptops able to use existing hardware and they may be able to enter the VR market for the first time.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
This is really just software. Apple is not going to go back to x86 / CISC when their RISC architecture is FAR more performant both in raw speed and Performance Per Watt. All Valve has to do is recompile Steam for RISC and Bob's your uncle.

The thing is, even without the recompile Steam runs fine on my M1 MacBook Air under Rosetta2 (CISC to RISC JIT converter built into MacOS) and I have been playing some Crusader Kings II on it lately.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
This is really just software. Apple is not going to go back to x86 / CISC when their RISC architecture is FAR more performant both in raw speed and Performance Per Watt. All Valve has to do is recompile Steam for RISC and Bob's your uncle.

The thing is, even without the recompile Steam runs fine on my M1 MacBook Air under Rosetta2 (CISC to RISC JIT converter built into MacOS) and I have been playing some Crusader Kings II on it lately.
There is ONE Apple product that runs VR perfectly, and that is the Mac Pro. After making my post about Apple and VR, I became very curious as to why Apple would not have a product that could be used with VR, and I was wrong. The Mac Pro will do it with no mods, but now that Steam is not supported, your RISC solution would probably work. Also, there is an active VR platform being developed at Apple which is standalone like Facebook's Oculus Quest. That means it will not need an Apple computer to run it. It is rumored to use the foundation of the iPhone 12 along with it's processor, much like the Quest uses a mobile platform for the Quest 2.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I haven't really researched Apple VR much but one thing they can do now for it is with Apple Silicon (A or M Series) they can provide it a VERY powerful hardware platform. It also makes sense that they would not tie it to a desktop or laptop.
 

Quetesh

Well Known GateFan
I have not used an Apple product since I stopped working for them. I would not throw one in the trash if somebody gave it to me for free, but are they really worth the extra cost since the PC and Android market have also gotten stronger?
 
Last edited:

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
That's the thing. Apple products have the premium cost but unlike a couple of years back when they were not giving you premium components (usually one generation behind on the desktop) now you are getting best of breed components. Their custom mobile SOCs are the fastest ones out there and also the most energy efficient - in phones and tablets this has been the case for awhile and now on the Macs with M1 the performance jump is huge. It also resulted in the MacBook Air and Mac Mini having $100 price drops.

It is also causing real market disruptions in the PC world when the fastest laptop out there is of all things a tie between the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro 13. Since they pushed out those two and the M1 Mac Mini their shipments are WAY up year over year (94%) and they now are by some estimates holding about 22-24% of the US laptop market.

So like anything it is a matter of preferences and also what you are looking for. As my work still involves secure information (and HIPPA compliance) Androids have been banned as corporate devices because of the security problems and their relaying everything back to Google. I have an iPhone 11 Pro because all corporate allows on the network currently are iPhones and I got it at 50% cost and it is my phone.
 

Quetesh

Well Known GateFan
Yeah, I don't know, I beat my PC to death, but it is still going strong.
I am the queen of 30 plus tabs running at once, and my personal PC is kicking ass while my work one is struggling daily.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Yeah, I don't know, I beat my PC to death, but it is still going strong.
I am the queen of 30 plus tabs running at once, and my personal PC is kicking ass while my work one is struggling daily.
I'm with you on this. Apple products, when weighed with all of the factors, still does not represent a good value for hardcore computing. In order to get compatibility, access to the vast availability of different software and games, and basic connectivity to standard computer peripherals and devices, you have to spend hundreds of dollars on dongles, adapters and proprietary interfaces. This is why you still do not find them supporting enterprise infrastructure or being a widely used platform by businesses. Even the art world has become more PC heavy because the newest Nvidia cards can be installed in PCX desktops and hardware easily changed or upgraded by the end-user, saving yet more hundreds or even thousands. DevOps centers for game development have almost no Macs in them.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Actually Apple is not going to be supporting enterprise infrastructure in some ways because they do not make servers. Their Macs, however, do natively support all manner of business platforms (Active Directory, RDP, Office and many, many more). They also are becoming much more widely used by businesses, especially businesses dealing with confidential data because of the high level of security not only coming from OSX but also hardware features like the Secure Enclave, T2 (on Intel Macs) or Apple Silicon Macs where the security exists right in the SOC. It is very popular also with developers of software (not so much games yet) as it runs all of the principal software IDEs and (especially on M1) far faster than PCs do.

The massive jump in speed, cool operation and monster battery life (the M1 laptops are coming in at roughly 20 hour battery life) have a lot to do with the massive jump in Mac sales (up 94% month over month and year over year since M1 rolled out). If the estimates of Mac now being over 20% of the market hold true that will be a huge disruption for Intel and also Nvidia (who already are losing developers to AMD and Radeon over CUDA). AMD uses Open GL/CL and Vulkan. Apple Silicon uses Metal. Open CL and Vulkan.

And the nice thing is everyone wins. For Apple more people go to Mac. For the PC world it is needed pressure on both AMD and Intel to get their act together in the world of processor performance and efficiency - where they both have been laggard. For a tiny fanless laptop like the MacBook Air to be faster than Core i9 and Ryzen laptops AND boxes is embarrassing.

As to dongles. I have one for my work laptop but never need to use it. The few peripherals I need are wireless usually and AirPort hooks right up. In any event, Apple is subtly admitting they went overboard with the embrace of USB-4 because next Friday the new MacBook Pros are expected to celebrate the return of normal Ports! They are expected to have not only their usual USB-4s but also regular USB, HDMI, Ethernet and SD card reading. I got a good chuckle out of it. Also the Touch strip is leaving.
 
Last edited:

Quetesh

Well Known GateFan
I was selling Apples when that touch strip first came out.
I talked those things up like mad, but honestly I never thought they were worth the cost.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
I was selling Apples when that touch strip first came out.
I talked those things up like mad, but honestly I never thought they were worth the cost.
In theory they could have been good but ultimately it turned out there just are not enough functions going on in the "F" series buttons to justify it.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Actually Apple is not going to be supporting enterprise infrastructure in some ways because they do not make servers. Their Macs, however, do natively support all manner of business platforms (Active Directory, RDP, Office and many, many more). They also are becoming much more widely used by businesses, especially businesses dealing with confidential data because of the high level of security not only coming from OSX but also hardware features like the Secure Enclave, T2 (on Intel Macs) or Apple Silicon Macs where the security exists right in the SOC. It is very popular also with developers of software (not so much games yet) as it runs all of the principal software IDEs and (especially on M1) far faster than PCs do.
Apple has arrived too late for this party. The TPM chip (Trusted Platform Module) has been widely used for enterprise-level managed encryption in the enterprise for more than 10 years. Apple may have caught up with the tech that has been available for that long, but having the capability means nothing if the machines are not deployed to use it. The biggest factor in the enterprise for choosing PC laptops is the return on investment. Individuals love the Macs, but the infrastructure costs for supporting even individual Apple machines are not seen as worth the cost. I work for a multi-billion-dollar media corporation where money is no object, and still, Macs are shunned (but available). Microsoft Surface machines are deployed to the field. What use is having a powerful processor if there is so very little software which would require it, and the software that does require it is written for PC and not Mac? Also, the processor is only half the story. The most advanced graphics cards are not made for Mac, and cannot be installed on a Mac.

The massive jump in speed, cool operation and monster battery life (the M1 laptops are coming in at roughly 20 hour battery life) have a lot to do with the massive jump in Mac sales (up 94% month over month and year over year since M1 rolled out). If the estimates of Mac now being over 20% of the market hold true that will be a huge disruption for Intel and also Nvidia (who already are losing developers to AMD and Radeon over CUDA). AMD uses Open GL/CL and Vulkan. Apple Silicon uses Metal. Open CL and Vulkan.
I need a reference for this. I am not seeing this at all. The Apple market share in the laptop category (active units) is only 8% in 2021 (the high estimate for functioning units is 9.5%). It was 7% in 2019. So yes there is an increase, but it's still a drop in the bucket. It has NEVER been anywhere near the 20% you claim. SOURCE

1622694596997.png


And the nice thing is everyone wins. For Apple more people go to Mac. For the PC world it is needed pressure on both AMD and Intel to get their act together in the world of processor performance and efficiency - where they both have been laggard. For a tiny fanless laptop like the MacBook Air to be faster than Core i9 and Ryzen laptops AND boxes is embarrassing.
We have been on this merry-go-round before when Bluce was here. :). I get it that you are impressed with Apple and Macs and such, but I think your personal excitement for the hardware and Apple itself is clouding your vision. The reality is always going to be that Apple charges way more than what they give you in actual hardware and capabilities, all the while claiming that they are superior when the overall package and experience is inferior relative to the entire computing sphere domestically and internationally. Apple products are a niche and are not likely to become truly mainstream. They were never meant to be mainstream. The strategy of Apple is to extract as much money as possible from well-heeled (but not super computer savvy) creatives who are manipulated/influenced by the exceptionally effective Apple marketing. Why sell millions of cheap PCs for affordable costs when you can get somebody to pay hundreds for a cellphone which has middling capabilities when compared to premium Android phones? Apple's main revenue stream is iPhones, not laptops.

As to dongles. I have one for my work laptop but never need to use it. The few peripherals I need are wireless usually and AirPort hooks right up. In any event, Apple is subtly admitting they went overboard with the embrace of USB-4 because next Friday the new MacBook Pros are expected to celebrate the return of normal Ports! They are expected to have not only their usual USB-4s but also regular USB, HDMI, Ethernet and SD card reading. I got a good chuckle out of it. Also the Touch strip is leaving.
Our SecOps team discovered that Apple laptops will no longer use third-party chargers because the computer can detect if there is an Apple charger being used or a Non-Apple USB-C charger. The hard drives cannot be upgraded because the SATA connector is no longer standard. No computer should need a dongle to connect to the ethernet. The latest Macs do not even have an ethernet port or any standard video ports.

Apples are cool! But The market has spoken clearly for the past 20 years and Apple has never been as close to the relatively tiny 10% market saturation it has right now in 2021.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Be careful about Netmarketshare. On their own site they state that that tool is no longer supported and stopped getting data last October.

IDC has the more current information but it is behind a paywall. I found out about it from a quote in an IT journal about Apple's Mac market share hitting 23%.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Fact-checking the performance claims you made for the M1 vs i9 and Ryzen chips. These are actual benchmarks:

Cinebench (for running the 3D modeling software Cinema4D. There are lots of other benchmark charts on this site, and the M1 does not come in at the top of any of them, or even second or third. Just sayin!

1622697244087.png
 
Top