Which will last longer: "The Orville" or "Star Trek: Discovery (STD)"?

[Overmind One]

Right now, we are inbetween seasons of both The Orville and Star trek Discovery (STD). Since this is the opening thread, I will not mention my personal choice just yet. This is the topic:

Which show is going to still be around when the other has been canceled? Base your comments in logic, like from the studio's point of view. When you really look at it, the primary goal of the studio is to make REVENUE from the product, not to please fans or to be artistic and serve an elitist audience. Literally, if children's cartoons are generating advertising revenue and gathering enough viewers to make the prices for the ad slots profitable, they can have dancing mushrooms and gumdrop dragons and be fine with it. We may not like having few choices except where the explosions and drama is taking place, but that is all they seem to be making, with a few exceptions.

But this battle is between The Orville and Discovery. Which will still be around when the dust settles?

 

[Overmind One]

My vote is for The Orville. I talk to people who are just now seeing it for the first time since Season 1 aired. Many of them were confused by what they assumed would be a parody, and then finding out what a thoughtful, intelligent show it has become in just one season. Discovery is just a shiny, explode-y mess of a show and I just do not see it going past Season 2.

 

[Joelist]

If the proper barometer is profit then it has to be The Orville, as Netflix took a bath on STD last season. STDs best chance is the SJWs running CBS have shot their mouth off and if they admit now that their AllAccess subscription service is a flop they will lose their jobs - so they may hide the loss and keep it around.

 

[PussyGalore]

If the proper barometer is profit then it has to be The Orville, as Netflix took a bath on STD last season. STDs best chance is the SJWs running CBS have shot their mouth off and if they admit now that their AllAccess subscription service is a flop they will lose their jobs - so they may hide the loss and keep it around.

This is exactly what's going on. Canceling the show at this point would be an admission of failure. It has nothing to do with fidelity to the Star Trek brand and everything to do with maintaining the illusion of market share. Reality will eventually force them to feed the Cancellation Bear but they are going to do everything they can to make it look like the show was a success with multiple seasons. I highly doubt we'll ever see a CBS No Access big wig admit publicly that they screwed up with STD. Such an admission might make future investors skittish and they know that.

As for which show will last longer, even if The Orville gets cancelled it will still enjoy a likability factor among ST fans that STD never will. That's a fact.

 

[Overmind One]

If the proper barometer is profit then it has to be The Orville, as Netflix took a bath on STD last season. STDs best chance is the SJWs running CBS have shot their mouth off and if they admit now that their AllAccess subscription service is a flop they will lose their jobs - so they may hide the loss and keep it around.

I seriously think that The Orville's second season will be even better and more popular than the first, now that Discovery has gone off the rails completely and Trek fans are seeing in online commentary that there is a mass exodus going to the Orville for their Star Trek fix. As long as Fox is getting what they want, Seth will be able to continue making The Orville. This may be Fox's opportunity to build an honest-to-goodness scifi franchise which has legs like Family Guy did (canceled twice and revived twice!). Fox has nothing comparable to Star Trek other than this.

Also, look at the cost! At between 8 and 9 million per episode, STD is simply unsustainable. Lets not even talk about the merchandise marketing/sales flop behind Discovery and Star Trek (starting with 2009). Complete flop.

 

[PussyGalore]

I seriously think that The Orville's second season will be even better and more popular than the first, now that Discovery has gone off the rails completely and Trek fans are seeing in online commentary that there is a mass exodus going to the Orville for their Star Trek fix. As long as Fox is getting what they want, Seth will be able to continue making The Orville. This may be Fox's opportunity to build an honest-to-goodness scifi franchise which has legs like Family Guy did (canceled twice and revived twice!). Fox has nothing comparable to Star Trek other than this.

Also, look at the cost! At between 8 and 9 million per episode, STD is simply unsustainable. Lets not even talk about the merchandise marketing/sales flop behind Discovery and Star Trek (starting with 2009). Complete flop.

The cost per episode for STD is insane. At least with commercial TV there are limits and boundaries thanks to the ratings system.

And when producers try to circumvent that ratings system by pouring tons of money into a show and filming an entire first season without any criticism or outside review they end up regretting it, like with SGU and DEFIANCE. SGU was a commercial flop, there's no denying that. It literally ended with them drifting in space. How lame is that? And as for DEFIANCE, it had three seasons but that's only because they dumped hundreds of millions into the thing up front. They may have lost their ass financially or they may have broke even, who knows, who cares; but the show clearly wasn't a success as proven by the fact that it has been completely forgotten about. No one demands more of it. There is no merchandise being marketed or collected in regards to it. There is no cult following of it or even a grass roots effort to get it to return. It's just dead and forgotten. How is that a success?

STD is going to suffer this same fate because it's already an abject failure. We'll get another season and then it will be done and gone and no one will care. There's really no other way for this to go. Netflix has lost a ton of money bankrolling this thing. Anyone investing money into a second season of this turd is just throwing good money after bad. That's the reality of it.

 

[Overmind One]

I read that they are building an Enterprise set. That means that they have redesigned it, since there are AT LEAST three complete, true to blueprint real life standing sets available of the 1701 bridge in various locations across the country. James Cawley owns sets of ALL the areas shown in Star Trek TOS. Building the set means that more than one episode will happen on that ship, and that there will likely be a story arc which plays out on the 1701 which has something to do with tying Discovery's timeline to the actual Prime timeline (lol!). Like with SGU, the spin will be ramped up even more during Season 2, and the paid media Spin Group will spin up articles about the new actor that plays Pike, the appearance of the Enterprise 1701 in the show, and possibly a retconning of Spock. I don't think anything remotely close to that scenario will go very well.

 

[PussyGalore]

I read that they are building an Enterprise set. That means that they have redesigned it, since there are AT LEAST three complete, true to blueprint real life standing sets available of the 1701 bridge in various locations across the country. James Cawley owns sets of ALL the areas shown in Star Trek TOS. Building the set means that more than one episode will happen on that ship, and that there will likely be a story arc which plays out on the 1701 which has something to do with tying Discovery's timeline to the actual Prime timeline (lol!). Like with SGU, the spin will be ramped up even more during Season 2, and the paid media Spin Group will spin up articles about the new actor that plays Pike, the appearance of the Enterprise 1701 in the show, and possibly a retconning of Spock. I don't think anything remotely close to that scenario will go very well.

 

[Overmind One]

 

[Overmind One]

Spock would find Michael Burnham reprehensible and unworthy of logical deconstruction. I think it would be such a shock, he would lose his composure. (I made this)

 

[Overmind One]

I really hope Orville gathers more steam in Season 2. If Seth plays his cards right and builds the following for this show I think he can, we could be looking at an Orville movie in a couple of years.

 

[PussyGalore]

Spock would find Michael Burnham reprehensible and unworthy of logical deconstruction. I think it would be such a shock, he would lose his composure. (I made this)

View attachment 33980

It's absurd to have her connected to him via a Vulcan upbringing. There's nothing Vulcan about her. She hasn't retained her years of training under Sarek's tutelage (other than some ridiculous parlor trick that allows her to have interstellar phone calls with daddy ). The central ethos of Vulcan life, that of tamping down emotions and bringing logic to the fore as a guiding principle, is missing from her personality. She's an emotional rogue which is the exact opposite of a Vulcan. Spock wouldn't even give this poser the time of day.

 

[Overmind One]

It's absurd to have her connected to him via a Vulcan upbringing. There's nothing Vulcan about her. She hasn't retained her years of training under Sarek's tutelage (other than some ridiculous parlor trick that allows her to have interstellar phone calls with daddy ). The central ethos of Vulcan life, that of tamping down emotions and bringing logic to the fore as a guiding principle, is missing from her personality. She's an emotional rogue which is the exact opposite of a Vulcan. Spock wouldn't even give this poser the time of day.

They have used the magic wifi mind meld more than once to far. And the place where they "meet" has fairy particles and blue wispy colors. It's farsical. If you only knew how they got into the Mirror Universe. And no, it was not a transporter accident. . Season 2 MUST open with the Enterprise because the two ships were facing off at the end of the episode, with Pike at the helm (we have not seen him yet). Spock will have to be in it too somehow. Season 2 should be the most ridiculous antics this show will offer before cancellation. I plan to keep up on it.

 

[PussyGalore]

They have used the magic wifi mind meld more than once to far. And the place where they "meet" has fairy particles and blue wispy colors. It's farsical. If you only knew how they got into the Mirror Universe. And no, it was not a transporter accident. . Season 2 MUST open with the Enterprise because the two ships were facing off at the end of the episode, with Pike at the helm (we have not seen him yet). Spock will have to be in it too somehow. Season 2 should be the most ridiculous antics this show will offer before cancellation. I plan to keep up on it.

I'm sure season 2 will be just as insulting to Trek fans as season 1 has been; if not more so as they try to fix the inherent problems in the story.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm sure season 2 will be just as insulting to Trek fans as season 1 has been; if not more so as they try to fix the inherent problems in the story.

The problem is at the end of episode 15 (the last episode of the season). The Enterprise 1701 shows up after sending a distress call, and we know the message came from Captain Pike. It forces them to start there opening Season 2. If, right off the bat, they play footloose and fancy free with the interiors of the Enterprise or the tech on the ship, or if it has a window on the bridge and a spinning saucer, they will have jumped off the cliff at that point and all that would be left is waiting to hear the THUD.

 

[PussyGalore]

The problem is at the end of episode 15 (the last episode of the season). The Enterprise 1701 shows up after sending a distress call, and we know the message came from Captain Pike. It forces them to start there opening Season 2. If, right off the bat, they play footloose and fancy free with the interiors of the Enterprise or the tech on the ship, or if it has a window on the bridge and a spinning saucer, they will have jumped off the cliff at that point and all that would be left is waiting to hear the THUD.

The fact that we even have to ask these questions is not a good sign for the show. With The Orville we aren't even wondering what the quality will be like when season 2 premieres. We know it will be good.

 

[Tripler]

You know this show should be pulled on the grounds they swear in it ... Just like youtube is squashing swearing youtubers ... Remove it off the air and electronic highway now ...

 

[Overmind One]

You know this show should be pulled on the grounds they swear in it ... Just like youtube is squashing swearing youtubers ... Remove it off the air and electronic highway now ...

Also, they showed some guy's bare behind on the show. One redeeming thing, is that with profanity allowed in the show, Spock can tell Michael Burnham that she is a lying bitch and that his daddy Sarek is a f**king illogical asshole for wasting his time on Michael.

 

[PussyGalore]

Also, they showed some guy's bare behind on the show. One redeeming thing, is that with profanity allowed in the show, Spock can tell Michael Burnham that she is a lying bitch and that his daddy Sarek is a f**king illogical asshole for wasting his time on Michael.

I find it so insulting when STD fanbois claim that anyone who doesn't approve of the swearing on the show is a prude. I'm not a prude and I have been known to swear myself. But swearing needs to be in the proper context. Star Trek has never had cursing and it seems extremely vulgar to hear it on a so-called Star Trek show because it is out of context.

And this isn't some new way to improve ST or make it cooler or any of that nonsense. It's simply a juvenile and unimaginative way of writing.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

Wasn't Firefly a FOX show? Are any of the folks who cancelled that show still there? I really want to see The Orville make it but TV executives are pretty stupid sometimes.